Nothing's Carl Pei Says Your Smartphone's OS Will Replace All of Its Apps 69
In an interview with Wired (paywalled), OnePlus co-founder and Nothing CEO, Carl Pei, said the future of smartphones will center around the OS and AI to get things done -- rendering traditional apps a thing of the past. 9to5Google reports: Pei says that Nothing's strength is in "creativity," adding that "the creative companies of the past" such as Apple "have become very big and very corporate, and they're no longer very creative." He then dives into what else but AI, explaining that Nothing wants to create the "iPod" of AI, saying that Apple built a product that simply built a better user experience: "If you look back, the iPod was not launched as 'an MP3 player with a hard disk drive.' The hard disk drive was merely a means to a better user experience. AI is just a new technology that enables us to create better products for users. So, our strategy is not to make big claims that AI is going to change the world and revolutionize smartphones. For us, it's about using it to solve a consumer problem, not to tell a big story. We want the product to be the story."
Pei then says that he doesn't see the current trend of AI products -- citing wearables such as smart glasses -- as the future of the technology. Rather, he sees the smartphone as the most important device for AI "for the foreseeable future," but as one that will "change dramatically." According to Pei, the future of the smartphone is one without apps, with the experience instead just revolving around the OS and what it can do and how it can "optimize" for the user, acting as a proactive, automated agent and that, in the end, the user "will spend less time doing boring things and more time on what they care about."
Pei then says that he doesn't see the current trend of AI products -- citing wearables such as smart glasses -- as the future of the technology. Rather, he sees the smartphone as the most important device for AI "for the foreseeable future," but as one that will "change dramatically." According to Pei, the future of the smartphone is one without apps, with the experience instead just revolving around the OS and what it can do and how it can "optimize" for the user, acting as a proactive, automated agent and that, in the end, the user "will spend less time doing boring things and more time on what they care about."
Paywalled source (Score:2)
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Legal, illegal, scheissegal.
Re:Paywalled source (Score:5, Funny)
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You wouldn't have verified anything that Wired said either. You're making the wrong complaint. What you're after is more information not verification.
Show, don’t tell (Score:2)
If you’re going to rag on Apple as having ossified, it helps if you can *show* your product being the change you describe, rather than telling it. Until then, until I can pay my gardener or check my car’s charge or listen to BBC Radio 4 etc with the OS and not apps, I think of this as just posturing, rather than delivering a better experience. And I’m unclear what part of the experience is so badly broken in the first place, that gets solved through using the OS instead of apps.
Re:Show, don’t tell (Score:4, Insightful)
A lot of "ideas people" these days really have the same idea "Something.. it doesn't matter what it is really, whatever... that will make me enourmously rich" and investors love that idea and give them money because they'll get rich too, right? And they do because there's a greater fool investor who will buy their shares!
The real idea is making a ton of money, not in actually doing anything.
Full self driving is one of these things, I've never heard of anyone who is excited about it besides investors. A lot of the AI hype is really this idea too. NFTs, obviously. Bitcoin is a great example... the list is long and getting bigger all the time.
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His ideas are great, but not practical with current technology. He might have to wait for a long time. Let's hope he doesn't do anything that lands him in jail.
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They never will be practical.
When I book at booking -dot- com, I know only hotels pop up that registered with booking -dot- com.
Similar for Agoda.
Google maps shows me a place that is not related to either.
Now am I supposed to have 2 or 3 phones because the AI's of each vendor have different 'data bases (cough cough)'?
I guess considering the hardware progress we have, every app will have an LLM included soon, but LLMs wont replaces OSes.
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You started off on a train of thought that seemed like the one I was having, but went to a completely different ending.
I guess considering the hardware progress we have, every app will have an LLM included soon, but LLMs wont replaces OSes.
I think what he's saying is that the LLM will augment the OS. Ones interactions with the phone, under his vision, will be primarily through the LLM, rather than interacting directly with apps.
The part I got hung up on was the idea that the LLM will replace the apps. What is the LLM going to interact with to achieve your/its goals if the apps aren't there?
I do think it raises an interesting
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The part I got hung up on was the idea that the LLM will replace the apps. What is the LLM going to interact with to achieve your/its goals if the apps aren't there?
A lot of people seem to think that the LLM will call APIs directly. Talk about a recipe for disaster. Having the LLM control the app that talks to the API at least potentially restricts the LLM to only valid requests.
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Having the LLM control the app that talks to the API at least potentially restricts the LLM to only valid requests.
IMHO, I see no difference as far as validation of input goes. The API should be doing the same validation on the backend that the backend of the app does (and if the app is doing some or all of the validation on the frontend, that's already a broken paradigm).
That said, maybe we're referring to different things when we refer to the API? I'm suggesting that each app implement new API's for the LLM's to make use of, so they should be fit for purpose; I'm NOT suggesting that a LLM use internal APIs that the ap
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The LLM will hallucinate the way to use the API wrongly.
Re:Show, don’t tell (Score:4, Insightful)
unclear what part of the experience is so badly broken in the first place, that gets solved through using the OS instead of apps.
The part where the OS manufacturer does not have a monopoly in all of the use cases of a smartphone.
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Operating systems that are siloed don't get much third party support. An OS is a platform for whatever variety of apps fill perceived needs.
While Apple built a huge ecosystem, so did Android, and there are other mildly competitive platforms to both. A monolithic platform is doomed to failure if its offerings don't match market demands, and AI isn't going to do the job for decades.
Nonetheless, every phone maker has wet dreams about the market control that Apple and Google assert, trying to invent new marketi
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Look at what OpenAI, Google, and Microsoft and I think Firefox too... They all want to replace http with Agents. Look at the Firefox "everything" search/location bar. It obfuscates the url you go to... All these ideas GET INBETWEEN you and what you want, and replace what you are currently using. Look at Google previews of websites... you don't have to actually GO to a website you can just read the preview. We want to repl
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I get what you're saying, but an agent can only effectively intermediate if it has the user's data, the user's authorisation to work on its behalf in a way that's recognised by the receiving end, as well as everything else. An agent isn't going to be able to replace my First Direct banking app until it has a means to persuade First Direct that it is acting on my behalf in a way that FD trusts. Currently, FD trusts their own app in that respect, and given they're on the hook for financial liability if they t
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My guess though, based on past observations/experience, is that
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Wish I had mod points - this is the most insightful comment I've read in a while. But since I can't mod you up...
Look at the Firefox "everything" search/location bar. It obfuscates the url you go to...
That's not true on my Firefox setup though, and I suspect it's not true on yours. And they can pry unobfuscated URLs out of by cold dead hands. When I send, say, an Amazon link to somebody, the first thing I do is to strip off all the tracking shit that allows Amazon to associate me with the person I'm sending to. I'm obsessive about removing tracking cruft in URLs. When I'm no longer able to do
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That "everything" bar in FF... I read an article here sometime this week about that. Several people commented same as you, that it had not yet invaded the version they were using, but indeed, this is what they did. The idea is that you express whatever you want, in words, in the location bar, and then it goes and does it... so you could do something like
Handheld advertising delivery device (Score:5, Informative)
Sadly, this is probably true. I still use my phone as a communications device but it's slowly getting harder and harder to use like that. Google (and Apple although I've not used it much other than to try when Google first broke always on VPN and discovered that Apple has the same problem without the option of a custom rom) are focused on tracking and advertisment delivery (AKA money extraction).
I use always on VPN (to a private server), that way there's no information in my IP about where I am, everything comes from a handful of IPs. Sure, websites etc can (probably) know it's me each time but the don't get any information about where I might be.
But both apple and google have (IMO deliberately) broken this. I don't know of any way to have always on VPN working on Apple and receive things like whatsapp because the phone going to sleep disables the vpn. On Android it's still possible[1] on a rooted device with a custom rom but you do have to accept that a significant proportion of apps won't work on a rooted phone - so you end up needing a second phone to use the first phone as a hotspot.
[1] I suspect that one day Whatsapp will refuse to run on a rooted phone.
Re: Handheld advertising delivery device (Score:2)
App authors are under no obligation to support rooted phones and if they deal with your data they probably wont on security grounds.
As for phones becoming harder to use for communication, no idea wtf you're talking about. Calls, sms and email work fine for me. Dont use WhatsApp because I dont want Zuckerberg having my data. Kind of ironic you run a rooted phone and use vpns yet also use meta.
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As for phones becoming harder to use for communication, no idea wtf you're talking about. Calls, sms and email work fine for me. Dont use WhatsApp because I dont want Zuckerberg having my data. Kind of ironic you run a rooted phone and use vpns yet also use meta.
Kind of ironic that you do not use a VPN and use (I presume) the default dialer, SMS messaging, and email, yet you won't use an end-to-end encrypted messenger (WhatsApp) because, "I dont want Zuckerberg having my data".
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If you think WhatsApp isn't linked to facebook data there's a bridge for sale just for you. And E2E encryption might hide the message, it doesn't hide the recipient so Fuckerbergs minions can find out exactly who is talking to whom.
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I said nothing to imply any of that.
If you think WhatsApp isn't linked to facebook data ...
I know there are links between the WhatsApp account and Facebook data. It used to be much tighter, but I'm under no delusion that it would be impossible to link any of the accounts.
And E2E encryption might hide the message, it doesn't hide the recipient...
I'm well aware of what metadata travels along with my messages. BTW, E2E encryption doesn't "hide" the message - that would be stenography. It's plain old encrypted data.
Now can you tell me how your email isn't leaking any info, and how your SMS traffic is totally secure, and how your calls (ca
Re: Handheld advertising delivery device (Score:2)
You're assuming I care about privacy - I dont. You were the one making a big deal about VPNs etc yet using meta services.
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You're assuming I care about privacy - I dont.
Well that's ironic, since this thread started with you saying, "Dont use WhatsApp because I dont want Zuckerberg having my data."
You were the one making a big deal about VPNs etc yet using meta services.
Check the thread again; You've got the wrong guy. I was just bustin your balls over the jerky ironic comment :-)
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Let's see will it work in practice...
Me: "AI, send this message via the Wazap/Line/Viber/Telegram channel to XYZ!"
AI: "Sorry, no Line app installed and no Line account available"
Now, let's try it for one of the tick-tocks:
Me: "AI, apply that cool filter and send this spider-stung-while-eating-wasp video to my audience"
AI: "Sorry, no tick-tock app installed, can't help"
I somehow think the app and service providers may have a problem with the OS maker baking their service in the OS and eliminating them altoge
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And the users might have a problem with it too: if the phone comes preloaded with every app that any market sector might want to use then that's a lot of useless bloat which costs me money for storage and reduces the findability of the apps I do care about; and if I can't install weird niche stuff then I don't have the general-purpose device which I expect a phone
Past examples on Linux phones (Score:2)
And the users might have a problem with it too: if the phone comes preloaded with every app that any market sector might want to use {...} and if I can't install weird niche stuff
The way this class of problem has been solved in the past on Linux phones is by trying to handle accounts with a standardised API.
Palm/HP's WebOS had the very advanced Synergy, and Jolla's SailfishOS has a simplified version as Accounts.
It's these system's job to handle logging into servers on one side (Google Account, etc.), and exposing standard APIs to apps on the phone on the other side (mail, contact list, messages, upload of photos, etc.) Phone used to come with a set of standard account plugin (Goog
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is by trying to handle accounts with a standardised API
Pidgin (dunno about Linux phones, haven't seen such a beast live) worked by handling it via plugins for all available APIs.
This always worked in parts and broke often, because the APIs were incomplete and changed often.
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Pidgin (dunno about Linux phones, haven't seen such a beast live) worked by handling it via plugins for all available APIs.
Important: ...and exposed the result of these plugins via a standradized library (libpurple) further down wrapable in standard framework telepathy.
Making it possible to interface with those just by calling DBus.
That's the standard API I was refering too.
(e.g. on SailfishOS, before it got supported by the official distro, you could merely install Rakia and get VoIP working in the calling app).
This always worked in parts and broke often, because the APIs were incomplete and changed often.
Depends. Breakage increased as company became aggressice in trying to keep their users locked in.
At one end of the sp
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At one end of the specrum I never a problem with ICQ back when Pidgin was still called GAIM.
It did work reliably back when Facebook was putting efforts in supporting XMPP to attract users into its clutches.
Basically, it boils down to the same two options:
1 - if there's some way to make money, which means the service is popular, it will be closed and there'll be no APIs; or 2 - the service is not popular and there's no money to be made off it, then it may or may not be open and then it usually dies.
Since this "AI OS" will be put on the phone by the manufacturer, I presume they'll wrestle with the service providers that belong to 1 above.
Can't see how one side will win over the other before Apple. So, the first
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Of course, I for one would not like a remote AI-cobbled something to read my private messages as a starting point.
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"if the phone comes preloaded with every app that any market sector might want to use then that's a lot of useless bloat which costs me money for storage and reduces the findability of the apps I do care about"
Not just phones, MacOS comes with a bunch of apps that are useless to me and that can not be deleted. They are inside the read-only partition.
Re: Handheld advertising delivery device (Score:2)
https://www.windowscentral.com/facebook-connect-features-shut-down-windows-81-and-windows-phone-apps
Re: Handheld advertising delivery device (Score:1)
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I still use my phone as a communications device but it's slowly getting harder and harder to use like that.
No you don't. You use it as a "secure" communications device. There's a big difference. Nothing about what you said in any way makes normal communication different, and not even that different from the days of old where literally any idiot could listen in.
Microsoft Windows was centuries ahead (Score:2)
incorporating every little piece of nonsense in their OS.
Aesthetics (Score:2)
There is a certain aesthetic pleasure in the selection and use of the appropriate tool. This proposal is the antithesis of that ideal. It is using a nuke to swat a fly. It works; but, at what cost?
{O.O}
Apple is way ahead of him (Score:2)
Somewhat right (Score:2)
I'll believe it when I see it. (Score:1)
Sounds great on ePaper, but the devil's usually in the details. Current AI hiccups way too often.
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When I look at all the new "apps" I've installed on my phone in the last year, there is only one: the Android port of Balatro.
I suppose AI could give me a fake Balatro, complete with animations and whatnot, but that sounds a lot more resource-intensive than just running reasonably well-written software.
What is the collective noun for AI Con Merchants? (Score:1)
Is it a bollocks or a bullshit ?
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Is it a bollocks or a bullshit ?
AI Prophets, AI Clergy, AI Reverend. Take your pick. It has become very religion-like. True believers use it as a tool to manipulate the gullible into handing over large sums of cash to get into heaven, er, um, embrace the future and get a favorable seat at AI God's table when he / she / it is finally brought to fruition, and all for the low, low price of trillions of dollars, massive amounts of energy, piles of human generated data, and what little sanity is left on this planet. Praise Tech Jesus! Show me
Rename article (Score:1)
"Nothing Carl Pei Says sounds useful or plausible"
Nothing CEO....will accomplish....nothing ! (Score:2)
Pick your poison... (Score:2)
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It's exceptional banal, and it's remarkably ignorant.
You may ask your phone to turn off the light, and its response may be that it doesn't know how. With a smartphone, and it's 3rd party programming, anyone can teach the phone how to do that task. That's why smartphones are uniquely powerful and successful. With this predicted AI monstrosity you cannot teach the phone how to turn off the light, you have to hope that a corporation does that and the knowledge gets integrated into the AI, dependent entirely
Which OS? (Score:2)
Right now there are two distinct OS teams out there: team Apple and team Android. If the idea is you'll only have an OS on your phone and nothing else, how will they differentiate one from the other? For example, if I ask what the weather will be like tomorrow, what would be the difference between Apple and Android? The voice which tells me the weather?
I can somewhat see if you're looking at your calendar there will be differences in appearance, but that would be the only real difference.
Is this the part
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Green bubbles vs blue bubbles, like they do now.
Companies don't compete on differentiation, companies use differentiation to compete. Companies don't care if there's differentiation as long as they're making the money. Differentiation is a means to an end, not the end itself.
But it definitely true that what distinguishes a platform is largely gone when 3rd party APIs disappear, and that's exactly what is being predicted here. It's not even an OS at all, it's a closed application. The prediction here is t
Marketing gimmick (Score:2)
This is a dumb marketing gimmick. An app is a set of functions that accomplish a particular task. An OS is a set of functions whose specific task is to manage the hardware of the device.
If your OS is doing more than that purpose, and allowing for example posting directly to your social network, you have merely bundled your app with your OS.
You may bundle a functions that use an AI model with API integrations to do plenty of things. But that is unlikely, I do not want to talk to an AI chatbot to scroll throu
what an embarrassment (Score:2)
This guy doesn't understand the fundamental feature that makes smartphones successful, yet he's going to tell us what the future of smartphones is, and it's a device that lacks its most important feature.
Just how are smartphones going to know how to do things? Based entirely on previous knowledge? That's the exact problem that smartphones solve!
He's a moron, and he will be failure. This is what's wrong with Silicon Valley, fools are in charge.
You've got bigger fish to fry, Carl (Score:2)
This is coming from someone who has a Nothing Phone 2, a CMF Phone 1, and a Nothing Phone 3 on the wish list...
The claim being made about AI replacing apps on phones is coming across exactly the way NFTs were going to change the world.
I cracked the screen on my CMF Phone 1. Purely my fault, but I sent it back to be fixed. It took them a month to say "...no can do", and send it back to me in the same state as when I shipped it. Now, to their credit, they gave me a full refund, which I appreciate. Seriously,
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The claim being made about AI replacing apps on phones is coming across exactly the way NFTs were going to change the world.
Good point. I see a close parallel between blockchain and LLMs in the hype-o-sphere.
Blockchain is going to change the world!
First it was the promise of convenient completely anonymous online transactions that needed no trust in a central authority. The permanent public ledger turned out not to be a good way to make anonymous transactions. And failure to scale made direct transactions impractical to impossible. And so people actually use central exchanges, sort of like banks but worse in every way.
NFTs was t
sounds like more enshitification (Score:2)
Genius (Score:2)
AI (Score:1)
Yay apps! (Score:2)
from TFA:
Does this mean that Nothing Phone (3) will ditch apps? Of course not. Pei says that this vision won’t be realized for “7-10 years” because “people love using apps.”
What people? Where? I hate apps.
Replace all the apps? (Score:2)
You mean, the way I use my browser, on the computer I'm on the Web on, to do everything, with no additional apps?
"will spend less time doing boring things and... (Score:1)
They have been saying that for over 40 years. Hasn't happened.
Move along (Score:2)
Move along, Nothing to see here.