Chinese Police are Using Cellphone Data to Track Down Protesters (cnn.com) 67
CNN reports on the aftermath of last weekend's protests against the Chinese government:
A protester told CNN they received a phone call Wednesday from a police officer, who revealed they were tracked because their cellphone signal was recorded in the vicinity of the protest site.... When they denied being there, the caller asked: "Then why did your cellphone number show up there?"
In China, all mobile phone users are required by law to register their real name and national identification number with telecom providers. The protester was also told to report to a police station for questioning and to sign a written record....
In Shanghai, where some of the boldest protests took place with crowds calling for Xi's removal on two consecutive nights, police searched residents' cellphones in the streets and in the subway for VPNs that can be used to circumvent China's internet firewall, or apps such as Twitter and Telegram, which though banned in the country have been used by protesters. Police also confiscated the cellphones of protesters under arrest, according to two protesters who spoke to CNN.
A protester who was arrested over the weekend said they were told to hand over their phone and password to the police as "evidence." They said they feared police would export the data on their phone after it was confiscated by officers, who told them they could pick it up a week later. Another protester said police returned their phone upon their release, but officers had deleted the photo album and removed the WeChat social media app.
One protester told CNN they successfully avoided being contacted by the police as of Thursady afternoon.
During the demonstration, they'd kept their phone in airplane mode.
In China, all mobile phone users are required by law to register their real name and national identification number with telecom providers. The protester was also told to report to a police station for questioning and to sign a written record....
In Shanghai, where some of the boldest protests took place with crowds calling for Xi's removal on two consecutive nights, police searched residents' cellphones in the streets and in the subway for VPNs that can be used to circumvent China's internet firewall, or apps such as Twitter and Telegram, which though banned in the country have been used by protesters. Police also confiscated the cellphones of protesters under arrest, according to two protesters who spoke to CNN.
A protester who was arrested over the weekend said they were told to hand over their phone and password to the police as "evidence." They said they feared police would export the data on their phone after it was confiscated by officers, who told them they could pick it up a week later. Another protester said police returned their phone upon their release, but officers had deleted the photo album and removed the WeChat social media app.
One protester told CNN they successfully avoided being contacted by the police as of Thursady afternoon.
During the demonstration, they'd kept their phone in airplane mode.
We're not on a good path (Score:5, Insightful)
China is currently creating the most oppressive tech-driven surveillance state the world has ever seen. Unfortunately, rather than viewing their terrifying experiment as a lesson on the dangers of failure to regard personal privacy as a right, Free World governments and their corporate owners see China as a blueprint.
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I'm starting to think it's deliberate misdirection. By claiming China is doing it, the reader is lead to think that it is exceptional and something that the democracy they live in would never do.
Re:We're not on a good path (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm starting to think it's deliberate misdirection. By claiming China is doing it, the reader is lead to think that it is exceptional and something that the democracy they live in would never do.
Yes, the US is doing the exact same thing as China, but only in a simplistic binary view where either the police employ all surveillance methods or none at all. It's that nonsensical binary view that is not only incorrect but very misleading.
This story about Chinese police involves methods that are rare in the US. Yes, the US government most definitely has wide surveillance, but most of this surveillance is in the background because open surveillance is embarrassing. It's this lack of embarrassment that allows the Chinese police to openly utilize surveillance techniques that would cause trouble for US police (due to pesky enforcement of police restrictions by the courts and the press). In fact, the Chinese police want the public to know about their willingness to openly use heavy-handed techniques as a further psychological extension of their power.
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The US police don't seem embarrassed about asking Google for the personal information of everyone within a geographic area around the time a crime was suspected to have happened. That may be different to using cell tower data, but the end result is very similar.
They primary difference seems to be which is the easiest option, not the level of comfort the police have with them.
In both the US and Chinese cases, the justification is the same. It helps solve crime. I'm hoping that this at least makes more Chines
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Yes, the techniques are similar. However, the results are different.
In China, a dictatorship, one person controls it all, Judge, Jury, Executioner. That evidence they collect is only used to identify, at which point you're "disappeared" and gone forever. Your very existence is basically wiped - you never existed, no one knows who you are, etc. Basically a massive gaslighting campaign.
In the US, there are checks and balances. The evidence may be used to identify you, yes, but then you have to be arraigned (b
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Yes because in our democracies law enforcement never uses such tricks to track people :D
They do, but there are legal limits on what they can do. The fact that those legal limits are too weak is a conscious choice by people who are voting in these democracies. The
What's really a bad path is the increasing propaganda articles like this one on /.
This is not a propaganda article. It's pretty clear simple factual article. The fact that this is happening in China makes it very different and much more significant fact than it would be otherwise. This shows the danger of systems like cellphones which were designed for European and American legal regimes in which people are protecte
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So basically you are stating that China's totalitarism and a democracy are one and the same thing?
What can happen to protesters in China?
What can happen to protesters in a democracy?
The results speak for themself - just mentioning '89
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Re: We're not on a good path (Score:1)
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Nice FP, though I think you're projecting a bit much. Or maybe diverting? The technologies remain morally neutral, same as they ever were. It's up to us to figure out how we use them for good or bad purposes.
Specific example in my mind these days involves the old MEPR idea, where my thinking has most recently evolved into how that technology could be used to evaluate my personal relationships. In what ways are certain relationships close and others more distant? How are my close relationships evolving over
You're both right (Score:2)
"The technologies remain morally neutral" is correct, which tells us that as the original poster said, the problem is not the technologies, but the bad path that our governments have chosen. With Google's geofence [techcrunch.com], Western governments are doing the same thing that China is. And now that we know that Big Tech takes orders from government [nypost.com] things are getting dicey here. It is hard to want to trust big companies where the user is the product at all. I'm de-Googling, de-Appling, de-Microsofting, and de-Facebooki
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Nice FP, though I think you're projecting a bit much. Or maybe diverting? The technologies remain morally neutral, same as they ever were. It's up to us to figure out how we use them for good or bad purposes.
That's such a cop out. The technologies were specifically carefully designed with a power asymmetry so that they could be easily monitored by the authorities. End to end encryption in cellphone systems, done at the edge as the calls exited towards the PSTN would actually be easier than the current system which decrypts when the calls arrive at the network and then re-encrypts when they go back to a cellphone. There is no neutrality in that whatsoever.
What we see here is that insecure technologies which were
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NAK
Oh. Second time. So I must elaborate to avoid the "exact comment" thing?
Then (per force?) let me accuse you of not understanding most of the words you are using. There is no sense in wasting time in such a discussion.
If I cared, then I would ask where you obtained such a deficient education. But I don't.
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End to end encryption will not save you. When it started being used more in Australia they just passed legislation in 2018 mandating that all new phones have backdoors.
Their solution was to let people have end to end encryption, but to capture every single endpoint so it does not matter.
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End to end encryption will not save you. When it started being used more in Australia they just passed legislation in 2018 mandating that all new phones have backdoors.
Their solution was to let people have end to end encryption, but to capture every single endpoint so it does not matter.
This situation is awful, but it's still better than having everything hard wired into the network. There are many ways it is better. A) since the thing happens on the local terminal and is a bit abnormal it is possible for journalists who realise that they are being spied on to investigate and prove it's happening B) it becomes possible to buy devices from elsewhere and use them instead of Australian bought devices C) you can build your own software (e.g. LineageOS) and use that.
I'm not saying that this is
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China is just honest about it.
That's the only difference.
Stingray or Chinese knockoff? (Score:2)
Re:Stingray or Chinese knockoff? (Score:5, Informative)
They don't need any such thing. The government controls the telcos, they can just ask them for the location data.
Re: Stingray or Chinese knockoff? (Score:2)
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Because "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" rhetoric would have it that there can be no other explanation for you not carrying your tracker than you being up to something where carrying your tracker would be a bad idea.
The future of retaining some degree of anonymity might be to hide in plain sight, perhaps with methods adjacent to chaffing and winnowing.
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Now come with us, and don't resist.
Pretty normal to use cellphone data... (Score:1)
Everywhere around the world they check cellphone data. Just like they did at the Capital.
Another question, did these protestors come together adhoc/unprompted, but simply because they were all fed up with the covid restrictions, or was there more planning behind this. The fact reportedly vpns right are hard to connect to right now, but these protestors are connecting CNN sounds somewhat strange,
Tim Cook's Silence Speaks Volumes (Score:5, Funny)
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/... [townhall.com]
Playing propaganda games with liars (Score:1)
Gee, you somehow forgot to mention she is a rightwing hatchet artist. Obviously just slipped your mind, such as it is.
I'm looking forward to seeing her work on Putin's behalf so she can help destroy Ukraine and enslave whatever is left. /s
Obviously not so much. But disclaimer needed? My own ancestors were refugees who fled dictators.
Re:Playing propaganda games with liars (Score:4, Insightful)
Quite literally attacking the messenger.
How does her identity invalidate her questions?
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NAK
Again? How soon I forget. So what should I add?
Does defending sophism make you a Sophist? Just asking for a friend.
Liars all around (Score:4, Insightful)
Gee, you somehow forgot to mention she is a rightwing hatchet artist. Obviously just slipped your mind, such as it is.
I'm looking forward to seeing her work on Putin's behalf so she can help destroy Ukraine and enslave whatever is left. /s
Obviously not so much. But disclaimer needed? My own ancestors were refugees who fled dictators.
Let's completely avoid discussion about the issues and focus on the journalist asking questions. She's completely rightwing, you know, and that makes all the issues about Apple OK.
Let's also forget that ESG is a thing, liberals claim to care about governance and social issues, companies are rated by their ESG rating, and companies are regularly boycotted by liberals for social offenses, but somehow not Apple for doing this.
Let's focus on the real issues here.
The feature "AirDrop" was restricted by pushing an update, the update didn't state that this (the restriction) would happen, and the restriction happened only for phones in mainline China. This wasn't a mistake, happened on purpose, and directly hobbled protests against human rights violations in an authoritarian regime.
From previous Slashdot story:
That changed on Nov. 9, when Apple released a new version of its mobile operating system, iOS 16.1.1, to customers worldwide. Rather than listing new features, as it often does, the company simply said, "This update includes bug fixes and security updates and is recommended for all users." Hidden in the update was a change that only applies to iPhones sold in mainland China: AirDrop can only be set to receive messages from everyone for 10 minutes, before switching off. There's no longer a way to keep the "everyone" setting on permanently on Chinese iPhones.
The change, first noticed by Chinese readers of 9to5Mac, doesn't apply anywhere else.
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NAK
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I mean, it’s a random reporter accosting him with unplanned questions in the halls of the Capitol as he’s walking between meetings with members of Congress. It would have been more of a story if he actually said anything.
Are we slaves of technology? (Score:1)
There are many things that I don't understand.
To be anonymous is possible, when we don't use standard communication mechanisms (services, machines). With so many electronic parts, or even non electronic mechanisms around, why not to avoid the situation? In fact these white leaves of paper are "pure genius".
The problem is that we believe that the phone is part of our life, when it is just a machine as a coffee maker or a TV are. In fact, we were able to survive for thousands of years without phones,
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I think these people have a point in bringing their phones. They need to be present at the right street the right moment and need to know if they need to go away quickly, also they probably want to take videos and maybe smuggle it outside China. A walkie-talkie or a picture camera might be suspicious to the Chinese police. The mobile phone is the only device that s not suspicious from the principle.
What these people need is ways to use mesh networks so they can communicate without the cell network (the poli
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Some people's phones are being confiscated, this could well mean that they plan to image them, and then they can subject them to deep inspection at their leisure. And just having a phone with those capabilities is probably a crime...
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This bring another question: what is communication?
The white piece of paper "is" communication, as it can deliver a message. But it is far from being the only way people can interchange thoughts and opinions.
The problem with the current smartphone technology and the Internet, is that they are forcing us to standardize the way we share information in such a way that the information be easy to eavesdrop and/or manipulate. We even could argue that this is on purpose, to drive people to believe that the
Not surprising or unusual (Score:2)
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"Criminals" doesn't mean much when comparing what is happening in different countries if it's as arbitrarily defined as China seems to do it there.
No, it means the same thing everywhere, those who are targeted by the state. What is or isn't a crime varies, but the label "criminal" only ever means that the state wants to stop that person from doing something. In several countries including both China and the USA, it can also mean that the state wants to enslave someone.
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Yes. Of course. All the same. Being a Jew was also a crime some time ago. And they were tracked by the state. All the same.
It's all the same in that until you find out what the crime is, you don't know how to feel about it, and labeling people "criminal" is supposed to make you look down on them and stay away from them. States aren't all the same, that much should be obvious, and it is to anyone who's paying attention.
No more airplane mode (Score:2)
Freedom of speech (Score:5, Insightful)
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Better to live with fake news ...
Heard of a little thing called "January 6th"? That's when a group of 'patriots' (usually meaning 'my rules are more valuable than your rules') decided the news of a "stolen election" was more valuable than reports that the election is verified as a reasonably accurate summary of the people's will.
Fake news is bad: The problem is, explaining how every sentence is dishonest and manipulative, is time-consuming. That's time, people outraged by fake news don't want to spend on the truth.
Once again, American
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leave the phone on, but at home. (Score:4, Insightful)
It would actually be less suspicious to leave the phone on but at your home rather than to place it in airplane mode. Although they are not likely searching for phones that suddenly stopped pinging in the wider area rather than just a geolocation report, but I wouldn't put it past them to do that if they wanted to be very thorough.
The main issue is that they also have cameras and facial recognition, which still requires additional steps to frustrate. The fact that they are protesting in such large numbers is the biggest help. Once it reaches a tipping point, individual safety actually increases.
Or better yet, junkseed (Score:1)
I am thinking of running a service during protests where for a small fee I take your phone on a leisurely drive far away from the events in question, stopping at multiple restaurants, bars, and convenience stores which do not have working CCTV. "Junk seeding" or inserting bad data is a good way to avoid governments that have put on the elbow gloves and taken out the flashlight.
Leaving without phone is not an option (Score:2)
To anyone under 30 years old. Just does not compute.
What if someone needs to urgently send them an instagram picture? The horror of it.
Here and in China I suspect.
Also very suspicious in China not to be carrying a phone. I think they make it mandatory for the Uighurs.
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I am thinking of running a service during protests where for a small fee I take your phone on a leisurely drive far away from the events in question, stopping at multiple restaurants, bars, and convenience stores which do not have working CCTV. "Junk seeding" or inserting bad data is a good way to avoid governments that have put on the elbow gloves and taken out the flashlight.
Then at the police station - we have 7,000 phones that at the same time were driving on the same roads and going to the same Italian Pizza joint. Then driving at the same time over here. Wonder if it's related.
Mass event (Score:1)
Good point. Maybe time to just find a local sportsball game and park them all there for a few hours. "Wow everyone really digs soccer!"
Just like Israel in Palestine or US in Afghanistan (Score:1)
except not so much going after protestors, but resisters of invasion.
Israel tended to assassinate, US tended to drop a bomb on the signal.
CNN: the paladin of true (and freedom), right? (Score:2)
* they like to use the tagline: "CNN, leader of freedom" - the proper nickname of CNNBrasil, in my view, "CNN, leader of freedom OF THE MARKET"
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So did American police (Score:2)
Having a militarized police force is bad, m'kay.
apple needs to take an stand and get out! (Score:2)
apple needs to take an stand and get out! Don't cave in! at the very least open up side loading so they can wash there hands over any banned apps.
What Chinese person doesn't know this? (Score:2)
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It would be interesting to find out how many hit men carry a cell phone that is tracking their every move.
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The next obvious step (Score:2)