Microsoft and Nokia Finally Sign Definitive Agreement 95
An anonymous reader writes "Microsoft and Nokia yesterday announced the signing of a definitive agreement regarding their global mobile ecosystem partnership. We already know that Microsoft and Nokia will work together to reach out to developers, but the two have agreed to make Windows Phone developer registration free for all Nokia developers. There are also plans to open a new Nokia-branded global application store that leverages the Windows Phone Marketplace infrastructure so that developers can publish and distribute applications through a single developer portal to consumers that use Windows Phone, Symbian, and Series 40 devices. Lastly, Nokia will contribute its expertise in operator billing to ensure participants in the Windows Phone ecosystem can take advantage of Nokia's billing agreements with 112 operators in 36 markets."
Looking forward to the shareholder lawsuit... (Score:3)
Who are they reaching out to? (Score:5, Insightful)
Who are they going to be reaching out to? The Windows developers that were already ignoring WP7, or the developers that got shafted by Nokia when they changed course?
Re:Who are they reaching out to? (Score:5, Informative)
>Windows developers that were already ignoring WP7
Really? How did you come to know of that? By reading Slashdot?
The developer tools were downloaded over 1.5 million times and there are over 13,000 apps in the WP7 marketplace (faster growth rate than Android and iPhone at that stage).
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The developer tools were downloaded over 1.5 million times and there are over 13,000 apps in the WP7 marketplace (faster growth rate than Android and iPhone at that stage).
References, please.
Re:Who are they reaching out to? (Score:5, Informative)
Hardly a Microsoft fan, but two seconds of Googling would have gotten you here (or any number of other sources):
http://www.windowsphoneapplist.com/stats/ [windowsphoneapplist.com]
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I don't know how this compares to iPhone and Android, but 1.5 million SDK downloads, 36k developers, and 13k apps is impressive for a 6 month old platform that, by Slashdot's account, has 4 users.
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Re:Who are they reaching out to? (Score:4, Insightful)
Microsoft has a huge developer base, they are Nokia desperately needs and what MS is bringing to the table in this deal. MS can evidently count on these developers to give their platform a shot, historically not a bad gamble. The foundation has been laid, now comes the critical part: converting these available apps into actual sales and a viable business financially. So far the only platform where users consistently spend a lot of money is iOS with Android a distant second.
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Microsoft has a huge developer base, they are Nokia desperately needs and what MS is bringing to the table in this deal. MS can evidently count on these developers to give their platform a shot, historically not a bad gamble. The foundation has been laid, now comes the critical part: converting these available apps into actual sales and a viable business financially. So far the only platform where users consistently spend a lot of money is iOS with Android a distant second.
Nokia needs people buying their phones. My family has 6 Nokia phones (3 symbian). Our first buy after the announcement has already been a Droid. It's cool with Nokia, but MS? Thanks, but no thanks.
In the team I work in, there are some 5 E71. All are thinking about other brands after Nokia commited suicide (Again, I work with DBA's, Sysadmins, Network Admins. NO WAY they're buying MS *).
Re:Who are they reaching out to? (Score:4, Interesting)
13k apps is nice, but phone and app sales aren't all that great now. I was interested in XNA, so I paid the $99. I released a small app first, and it's seen ~300 downloads in a month or two. With ads, I make ~$2-1 per day. I'm hoping my game (when released) will make more, but MS has decided to rank all indie games after Xbox Live games from what I understand.
I could be #1 in sales of all apps everywhere but unless I have the Xbox Live mark, I'm automatically ranked lower, making it hard to find my game. Plus, there's currently no indie game tab. This kind of thing makes me not want to work with the platform, at least for games.
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This is false. Check the market place on the phone and you'll easily see none xbox live games above xbox live games. Really makes me question if you even know what your talking about.
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As an independent game designer you are not locked out of getting your application certified to carry the "Xbox Live" flag. It just requires some compliance with MS rules. Look into it. Sorry for the AC post, but I'm at work.
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Try to port it to the Iphone or Andriod. I know it would be a huge rewrite due to language differences and opengl instead of directx, but you would have access to a much larger market and none of this xbox live bs.
I would rewrite with the Andriod because the SDK is free and multiplatform. See how it works?
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http://windowsteamblog.com/windows_phone/b/wpdev/archive/2011/03/30/a-year-later-the-windows-phone-7-numbers-that-matter.aspx [windowsteamblog.com]
I don't know how this compares to iPhone and Android, but 1.5 million SDK downloads, 36k developers, and 13k apps is impressive for a 6 month old platform that, by Slashdot's account, has 4 users.
That's great!. But considering symbian had about 10% market share last time I checked (and going down), MS some 2% maybe? then it's great someone is downloading all that!. Now, they need people to buy their phones, and that's were the hard part comes. Even old nokia users (such as myself) see nokia-wp as something to stay away from, and people already on other platforms don't feel as going back to WP (even more Samsung or HTC). So, the actual question is, what's the market they're after?
Re:Who are they reaching out to? (Score:4, Informative)
It's not that much faster than iOS. WP7 has almost 15K apps right now. The marketplace was launched Oct 21, 2010. That's about 81/day. iTunes App store launched July 11, 2008 and had 15K by January 16, 2009. That is 78/day. There is lot of rounding error in there as the numbers are not exact. Android is a little harder to figure out as it's not all in one place.
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You have to admit Microsoft has a problem here. There is very little buzz around their phones despite them spending over $100,000,000 in marketing before launch. I think they may have another Zune on their hands here. A good product that compares well to its rivals, but still doesn't sell.
I'm actually surprised that they partnered with Nokia rather than purchasing RIM.
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Re:Who are they reaching out to? (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't know if I agree with that. The tile metaphor is fairly unique and has been duplicated on Android. I think any innovation they come up with will be quickly cloned.
I would put their problems in three categories.
1. Their marketing sucks. They spent a fortune on a campaign to establish that WP7 is good for people who don't like using a smart phone.
2. They have the appeal and sexiness of Cisco or Oracle. They're that middle aged slightly pudgy guy driving a sports car. There doesn't seem to be anybody at Microsoft with any sense of design. At least nobody of any apparent authority.
3. Their best developers have moved on to Google, Apple, and Facebook and Microsoft isn't very attractive to the best of the new generation of developers and designers. They might attract some people with fat pay checks, but they aren't ever going to get the truly passionate people.
Add to that their craptastic management and stifling bureaucracy and it's no wonder their stock has been dead in the water for a decade.
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2. They have the appeal and sexiness of Cisco or Oracle. They're that middle aged slightly pudgy guy driving a sports car. There doesn't seem to be anybody at Microsoft with any sense of design. At least nobody of any apparent authority.
I know design is mostly a matter of opinion, but I consider the WP7/Zune and the Xbox 360/Kinect UIs as some of the best looking out there, especially compared to Android. Maybe the Microsoft brand isn't as appealing, but some of their latest products, Windows 7 included have been top notch visually.
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The Metro UI is pretty cool, I'll agree with that. Supposedly it's going to start showing up in lots of MSFT products. I believe that's a good thing.
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That works out to about $2,000 per phone sold during that time.
They would have been better off to pay people $1,000 to take the phone and let word of mouth do it's job.
Bundling Tricks (Score:1)
The developer tools were downloaded over 1.5 million times...
Seeing as you can't download XNA 4.0 without downloading the developer tools for WP7, I'm not surprised. Bundling is a trick. That particular number says nothing about the number of people developing for WP7.
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"are over 13,000 apps in the WP7 marketplace (faster growth rate than Android and iPhone at that stage "
HAHA The IOS/Iphone platform has over 500,000 apps and Andriod is just behind with under 300,000. 13,000 for a platform that once had 90% of the smart phone market is very laughable.
Hopefully it is growing and I hope that means WP7 apps exclusively and not older WindowsCE or Windows powered apps. It maybe growing but I would totally ignore the Windows market as it is too small. That last sentence makes me
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>Windows developers that were already ignoring WP7
Really? How did you come to know of that? By reading Slashdot?
The developer tools were downloaded over 1.5 million times and there are over 13,000 apps in the WP7 marketplace (faster growth rate than Android and iPhone at that stage).
Yes, and how many of those 13k apps are just recompiled IOS/Android apps?
The market (smart phone app market) has been running for several years now. Most the apps have versions that run on various smartphone OS's.
In my opinion, the 13k don't really mean shit, lets see sales numbers of apps.
Re:Who are they reaching out to? (Score:5, Interesting)
They are trying to reach out to people like me.
Iâ(TM)m working for a big mobile game developer company (hence posting as AC), and I told our CEO, that I'd rather quit and take my whole team with me, than to develop for WP7.
And from talking with others in the industry, including Nokia's own people, I'm by far not the only one.
Developing for Nokia right now, is like buying tickets for the Titanic, shortly after hearing it hit the iceberg. ;)
And I'm saying that as a former level 65 Nokia fanboy.
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They are trying to reach out to people like me.
Iâ(TM)m working for a big mobile game developer company (hence posting as AC), and I told our CEO, that I'd rather quit and take my whole team with me, than to develop for WP7.
That's interesting. I wonder if they are offering deals to XBox developers behind the scenes to get them to develop for WP7, if they are we might see some enticing WP7 only releases.
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He got tired of the constant grind and "FedEx" questing.
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The Deck Chairs Are Well Placed (Score:5, Insightful)
I believe the new agreement optimally places the desk chairs for Nokia employees to have truly breathtaking views of the approaching iceberg.
Or perhaps I should say iCeberg.
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Deckchairs most often stand in the rear part of the ship ... can they expect anything from behind??
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Deckchairs most often stand in the rear part of the ship ... can they expect anything from behind??
They're in bed with Microsoft.
That usually progresses from a PMITA relationship into a KMITH[*] relationship, so they'll get it both ends.
[*] Kick me in the head
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Deckchairs are much easier to throw than office chairs too. Can someone please explain to me why, with all the creative talent in the world now, there isn't either a flying chairs screensaver, or a version of Donkey Kong with Steve Ballmer throwing down chairs instead of barrels or both? At the very least the Billborg icon should now be a mobile chair.
Nokia profits and sales have dropped sharply (Score:2)
Nokia profits slump with huge falls in North American division
. . .
In North America the performance was worse, with sales slumping 36% year-on-year, and by 40% compared to the previous quarter, but starting from a much lower base
http://www.brandrepublic.com/news/article/1066882/nokia-profits-slump-huge-falls-north-american-division/
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You mean people no longer want to buy Nokia phones since they cut off life-support to the operating system, and after shafting all the developers you can be sure no new software will be coming out? Not very surprising.
Phillip.
Shame (Score:5, Informative)
Now the n900 wasn't perfect, but if it had a capacitive screen, 3g on AT&T, and a 1ghz+ chip, it would have been.
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Hey, I just got my first smartphone: a BlackBerry Curve 9300 3G. It's great. Unlike every iThing and Android I've ever tried to use, I don't want to smash it to pieces with a toffee hammer. (It also does Ogg and FLAC out the box, which surprised me - I thought Thomson charged 10x as much for the MP3 licence if you did that.) Unfortunately, RIM is run by insane incompetents [wsj.com] and BB is a dead platform walking. Gah.
Re:BB is a dead platform walking (Score:2)
Phonez. Phonez. Phonez. OmMyGawd! Phonez!
Let's get some Phones! Let's get some Phones!
This Phone Rulez! That Phone Sux! This Phone Rulez! That Phone Sux!
(Derivative work of Liam Kyle Sullivan)
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Now the n900 wasn't perfect, but if it had a capacitive screen, 3g on AT&T, and a 1ghz+ chip, it would have been.
You've obviously never used 3G on AT&T.
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No one has.
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n900 was the unicorn, the first and the last... amen
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You can overclock the N900 [maemo.org]. I've not tried it, but some people claim to get it to 1GHz. As for the touchscreen, I kind of like being able to use my fingernails. The lack of 3G on AT&T sucks, but then AT&T sucks in general. I switched to T-Mobile and while I don't get 3G where I live (in the boonies), I regularly get 3.5G in more populated areas.
Microsoft releases actual cow turd as phone (Score:5, Funny)
Desperate to stay competitive against iPhone and Android mobile devices, Microsoft has released a two-pound lump of actual cow faeces that they claim constitutes a phone.
Windows Phone 7, in development for several years, strips the mobile telephone down to its fundamental essence: futility, annoyance, malfunction, inconvenience and a socially unacceptable odour. Confounding analyst expectations, the turd is in fact shined.
US mobile carriers hailed the turd as the perfect physical complement to their world-famous customer service. "This powerful product will promote our growth!" said John Harrobin of Verizon Wireless. "We're marketing them as edible."
"We think we can really work the brand equity," said Steve Ballmer, modelling the optional shoulder-length rubber gloves. "Everyone works with our stuff all day every day. They know who Microsoft is and what we do."
"How about making our customers actually swallow our bullshit physically?" said John Harrobin. "Windows Phone 7 was my idea."
Photo: Steve Ballmer ecstatic at Windows Phone 7 sales [newstechnica.com].
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S40 never have used Symbian OS. Series 40 software platform have always used NOS operating system (NOS = Nokia Operating System). S60, S80 and S90 software platforms have used Symbian operating system.
Nokia has released in last decade multiple different combinations of Symbian OS + S60 software platform (execluding S80 and S90 software platforms just now) and that has been one reason why developing applications for Nokia phones has been difficult.
Then Nokia got idea that it calls the old jungle of the Symbi
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That said, I'm still scratching my head why Nokia didn't go with Android.
Because they don't want to fight for the barebones margins of being another Android handset maker?
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And before someone will come back to try to dispute me read this [cnn.com]. Apple makes rakes in 50% of the smartphone profits worldwide. Nokia rakes in 15%, RIM 14%. The other manufacturers (HTC, Samsung, Motorola, etc) who are basically the most of the well-known Android handset makers are fighting over the last measly 20%. Why would Nokia want to fight a race to the bottom when it comes to profits?
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And before someone tries to say "but that article is from October 2010!!!" to dispute its accuracy here [onlinemark...trends.com] is one from February of this year with more data that shows about the same breakdown.
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And here [onlinemark...trends.com] is one from February with newer data showing about the same breakdown. Basically being an Android manufacturer is like being a PC manufacturer. It's a low-margin race to the bottom.
And margins on windows boxes will be... (Score:2)
Android or Windows, you're a box shifter. All box shifters have razor thin margins.
Look to see the dev team layoffs coming in the next couple of years. Developers are a luxury that a box shifter can't afford.
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Good bye Nokia (Score:1)
Good bye Nokia. It was nice knowing you. You should know from history that they will take your technology then shut you out.
Things change (Score:3)
The N95 was once the most popular phone. Then the iPhone happened. Then the iPhone was the most popular phone and Android happened, Then RIM introduces Ping and (at least in Holland) they sell a bundle.
People have zero brand loyalty or memory in the phone market. They buy whatever they want to, based either on some personal preference or because their cronies got one. It is funny with the RIM's. Both a business elite phone AND a phone for youngsters (Ping is cheaper then SMS apparently or easier, god knows, or cares)
Don't count Nokia out yet. MS might have had a long loosing streak but... well, they are used to it.
What is often missing is that Nokia got 1.00.000.000 in the deal. That funds a LOT of development. MS bought the 360 (which I note an awful lot of so called nerds here have got) with its Windows/Office income. It can buy a phone. If not this round, then the next and the next and the next.
There are worse places to be then at the end of a MS cash dump.
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There are worse places to be then at the end of a MS cash dump.
Well considering how poorly most of MS partners do, if I were Nokia, I would go over that agreement very carefully. The worst place that Nokia can be is that MS ends up with their IP like when it happened to Sendo.
Or they could be Bungie (Score:2)
Bungie was a Mac company. You heard of them? Little project they did, called Halo. Cornerstone game for the xbox.
Good thing they did too. The game was supposed to be on the PC as well, where it would have been laughed of the charts for being an overly simplistic shooter.On the Xbox it scored big because there was nothing else and MS bankrolled them all the way.
And while Sendo was getting it hard up the ass, they could buy plenty of lube with the cash to got in exchange.
Getting the shaft is how a lot of peop
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MS didn't just partner with Bungie; they bought Bungie. They divested themselves of Bungie in 2007. And for every Bungie, there are more counterexamples of partnerships that went bad.
And while Sendo was getting it hard up the ass, they could buy plenty of lube with the cash to got in exchange.
But lost all their IP. Since Sendo never made a product, their IP was the only thing real asset they had left.
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> But now they got cash now.
$1B is not much cash considering Nokia employs 130,000 Finnish human beings. Do you know how much the payroll is per year for 130,000 Finnish human beings?
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> But now they got cash now.
$1B is not much cash considering Nokia employs 130,000 Finnish human beings. Do you know how much the payroll is per year for 130,000 Finnish human beings?
Probably more than it is for 130,000 Chinese human beings who'd rather commit suicide [slashdot.org] than work for Apple?
*tongue firmly in cheek*
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The CEOs of MSFT "partners" live in their own little bubbles of self-deception.
"We're not as dumb as those other guys that got eaten by Microsoft. No, no, we're different"
Yep. Every single time.
--
BMO
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Nokia will need it. Few companies have spent so much producing so little.
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People have zero brand loyalty or memory in the phone market. They buy whatever they want to, based either on some personal preference or because their cronies got one.
Y're a youngin', ain't ye? Because I remember when this was said about computers! Back when the Apple ][ ruled the roost, Commodore was an industry titan, and Atari was struggling to clear it's stain of "video game company", people switched back and forth routinely! GEM used to be what Windows became, and for the most part, people bought com
Well done Nokia (Score:5, Funny)
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Your decision to partner with Microsoft is as sage and wise as allowing your balls to be shaved by a mental patient.
with a chainsaw.
Nokia must get Qt onto WP and S40 (Score:2)
Nokia has been kicking developers around for the past couple years.
and then developers were promised that Qt would allow great portability. Qt showed great potential.
Now, when developers started to invest considerable time with Qt, Nokia sends mixed signals or releases statements that are plausibly deniable about their commitment to Qt and Symbian's future.
Elop issued the burning platform memo to condemn Symbian, instead of allowing staff to work through the Symbian UX issues.
Recent releases and updates hav
Qt (Score:2)
Elop wants developers to focus on Microsoft technologies.
The full board of Nokia Oy appointed Elop.
Got it?
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buzzwords spotted (Score:2)
LEVERAGE ! ECOSYSTEM !
yeeeeeeah. that gotta help nokia share price. not really :)