Could Apostrophy OS Be the Future of Cellphone Privacy? (stuff.co.za) 100
"Would you pay $15 a month so Android doesn't track you and send all of that data back to Google?" asks Stuff South Africa:
A new Swiss-based privacy company thinks $15 is a fair fee for that peace of mind. "A person's data is the original digital currency," argues Apostrophy, which has created its own operating system, called Apostrophy OS.
It's based on Android — don't panic — but the version that has already been stripped of Google's intrusiveness by another privacy project called GrapheneOS, which used to be known as CopperheadOS. Launched in 2014, it which was briefly known as the Android Hardening project, before being rebranded as GrapheneOS in 2019. Apostrophy OS is "focused on empowering our users, not leveraging them," it says and is "purposely Swiss-based, so we can be champions of data sovereignty".
What it does, they say, is separate the apps from the underlying architecture of the operating system and therefore prevent apps from accessing miscellaneous personal data, especially the all-important location data so beloved of surveillance capitalism... Apostrophy OS has its own app store, but also cleverly allows users to access the Google Play Store. If you think that is defeating the point, Apostrophy argues that those apps can't get to the vitals of your digital life. Apostrophy OS has "partitioned segments prioritising application integrity and personal data privacy".
The service is free for one year with the purchase of the new MC02 phone from Swiss manufacturer Punkt, according to PC Magazine. "The phone costs $749 and is available for preorder now. It will ship at the end of January." Additional features include a built-in VPN called Digital Nomad based on the open-source Wireguard framework to secure your activity against outside snooping, which includes "exit addresses" in the US, Germany, and Japan with the base subscription.
It's based on Android — don't panic — but the version that has already been stripped of Google's intrusiveness by another privacy project called GrapheneOS, which used to be known as CopperheadOS. Launched in 2014, it which was briefly known as the Android Hardening project, before being rebranded as GrapheneOS in 2019. Apostrophy OS is "focused on empowering our users, not leveraging them," it says and is "purposely Swiss-based, so we can be champions of data sovereignty".
What it does, they say, is separate the apps from the underlying architecture of the operating system and therefore prevent apps from accessing miscellaneous personal data, especially the all-important location data so beloved of surveillance capitalism... Apostrophy OS has its own app store, but also cleverly allows users to access the Google Play Store. If you think that is defeating the point, Apostrophy argues that those apps can't get to the vitals of your digital life. Apostrophy OS has "partitioned segments prioritising application integrity and personal data privacy".
The service is free for one year with the purchase of the new MC02 phone from Swiss manufacturer Punkt, according to PC Magazine. "The phone costs $749 and is available for preorder now. It will ship at the end of January." Additional features include a built-in VPN called Digital Nomad based on the open-source Wireguard framework to secure your activity against outside snooping, which includes "exit addresses" in the US, Germany, and Japan with the base subscription.
Quick Answer (Score:4, Insightful)
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Indeed. But I would donate to a non-profit maintaining such a FLOSS OS.
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I would donate to a non-profit maintaining such a FLOSS OS.
This lot may be what you are looking for - https://e.foundation/e-os/ [e.foundation]
Nothing perfect, of course, but at least it's a large step in the right direction. FLOSS / non profit / privacy oriented / supports Android apps. Based off [doc.e.foundation] their own builds of LineageOS [lineageos.org] I understand. LineageOS is also FLOSS / non profit and Android app supporting but designed to maintain compatibility with Google so slightly more compromised on privacy.
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Both seem good. Been running LineageOS without google services for a while now.
Lineage's feature, where you allow an app access to a resource (such as contact), but it only gets an empty/dummy store is absolute gold.
Considering Murena fairphone as a replacement when my current phone dies. (ancient Nexus5, should be any time now...)
Pinephone is a contender too.
My ideal would be https://postmarketos.org/ [postmarketos.org] . But that's way out there.
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Agree.
Of course....iPhone.
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I pay that much for my cellphone plan with unlimited calls and messages and 20 Gigs of data.
Yeah, but you likely don't own it. It owns you.
Um ... for me? (Score:3)
Would you pay $15 a month so Android doesn't track you and send all of that data back to Google?
Probably not. I only pay $17.33/month for the "Flex" Plan ($10 unlimited talk/text, $5/GB 5G data) from Ting/T-Mobile on my Pixel 5a. I obviously don't use much cell data, mostly WiFi, and not many calls/texts either -- so, basically, I don't use the phone much at all. I have my cell for for if/when I need it while away and for authentications. (I also have a landline at home, which I prefer for long(er) calls, but I don't use that one much either.)
Privacy promises (Score:4, Insightful)
The promises aren't worth the pixels they're printed on. Typically, five minutes after company looks halfway viable, someone will make an eye-watering offer for whatever they want from the company and it's done. Just, ya know, tell the users the absolute minimum you can get away with.
Re: Privacy promises (Score:2)
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> financially suspicious
The European mindset says, "suspicion", the American mindset says, "privacy".
Too bad the Americans are dominated by European-wannabees.
Choice is good.
Re: Privacy promises (Score:2)
Swiss product ? Like crypto products from Crypto AG ? Never trust Switzerland for security and/or privacy. Switzerland is a known spy on its citizen, banking is just an exception.
Re: Privacy promises (Score:2)
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And aside from being a liar, you're a gigantic, filthy, gaping asshole. Fuck off and die in a fire.
If they make a smaller version... (Score:2)
If they make a 5-5.4" version and keep a resolution of minimum full HD, I would buy it and happily pay the subscription.
It's Swiss based! (Score:5, Informative)
Re: It's Swiss based! (Score:2)
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Re: It's Swiss based! (Score:2)
Switzerland is not to be trusted about security and/or privacy. Like https://www.letemps.ch/economi... [letemps.ch]
And companies have obligations to provide data to authorities https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/el... [admin.ch] without need of a judge.
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Is that why it had so many holes in it?
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what a cheesy comment! :)
No. (Score:3)
It has already been proven that most people don't value their privacy at all and will gladly sell it for much less than 15 bucks a month. The rest of us have had this "OS" for years.
Chancers (Score:2, Insightful)
So all the heavy lifting was/is being done by GrapheneOS which is FOSS and Android is the actual underlying OS layer but these rentseekers come along and say that packaging some unauditable VPN service and an App Store makes it their OS that's deserving of a subscription, this has to be a joke/troll.
After examining it carefully, no thanks (Score:4, Insightful)
Even with the sandboxing it touts, this operating system does not resolve the biggest issue with Android, in that all the common apps you're likely to need (beyond what is supplied by the manufacturer) will still abuse your privacy (regardless of what it can see on the phone itself) because they're all glorified web containers for companies profiting by operating large data silos. If an app is tied to an account, whatever you're typing into those apps will still be slurped and shared with other parties. It also does not resolve the fundamental privacy issues with smartphones in general (unsecured cell protocols, cell tower analytical data being sold to unaccountable entitles, push notifications being ran through central servers in a mostly unprotected manner etc.)
If you're concerned enough about your privacy to consider paying a subscription while also foregoing every other app you'd normally expect to use on a smartphone, consider following Naomi Brockwell's lead by migrating your phone numbers to VoIP [www.nbtv.media] instead.
Re:After examining it carefully, no thanks (Score:4, Informative)
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If you're paying for a service then you have a contract with agreed service levels. In theory you have some legal recourse if they breach those terms.
If the service is free then it can be changed or withdrawn at any time, and you have no recourse whatsoever.
Convinience might be worth it (Score:2)
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Re: Convinience might be worth it (Score:1)
You could also just get an iPhone on a payment plan for about $15/month, pay another $2 for a VPN and never install the YouTube or Facebook app.
Already been tied (Score:2)
Imagine... (Score:2)
Re: Imagine... (Score:4, Insightful)
Most people don't want to buy an engine. They want to buy a car.
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There's Framework [frame.work], and since they do what you want, I guess they are the most popular laptops ever and everyone is flocking to buy them.
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You have it backwards, manufacturers come preinstalled with an OS, which by and large is Windows, because the average person just wants something that turns on and works.
...or they use Windows because they don't have a feasible choice. There's plenty of OS' that just turn on & work. It depends what you want to do. Are you arguing that Windows is the only OS that can possibly work for everyone so nobody should be given the choice?
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straightforward as installing an OS update
Straightforward to you maybe. To some that's incredibly confusing and/or bothersome to the point where it isn't done.
People don't give a shit and aren't as knowledgeable as you about such things, much like I'm sure you're lacking in caring/knowledge about something else. This whole chain of posts boils down to how you can't imagine that people think differently than you that you want to make it a law that people must go through the same actions you chose to do.
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I had to buy a new engine for my car. It was $6000, installed, including new exhaust manifolds.
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Choice is all well and good, but people who insist the loudest for government legislation to force companies to offer more choices tend also be the ones who rise up in angry indignation when others make what they believe is the "incorrect" choice when presented with those options.
Sure, you can have the government force every computer manufacturer to include installations for every compatible OS on the planet for a given system. But are you going to be fine with the possibility that some people are going to
I don't need a pig in a poke (Score:2)
A subscription for not being a shitbag? No thanks (Score:2)
Re: A subscription for not being a shitbag? No tha (Score:2)
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"Labor"? Are they paying someone to manually intercept the data packets before they get to google?
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How do you suspect their sandboxing software gets built, tested, and maintained?
I am quite curious since we don't yet live in a post-scarcity Type II civilization.
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To paraphrase the GP:
Would I subscribe to a service to keep my information private? No fucking way.
Would I buy a product for a premium, that provably kept my information private? Quite possibly yes.
Why? In the first model, "they" control whether your information is private or not, and to what extent, and for what period. In the second model, ** I ** do.
That is a HUGE distinction that you are missing.
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Should probably ask GrapheneOS. They're probably doing most of the "labor."
Alright! (Score:1)
Just do not trust your phone (Score:4, Insightful)
Unless and until people bugging your phone land in prison (and that very much includes the TLA people), this is going to continue. Do not trust your phone, there are too many bad people around than want your data. Many of them in government positions or working in high positions in large enterprises.
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1) If a vendor does it and basically coerces consent, it is not.
2) If some TLA does it, it usually is not.
Seriously, have you been living under a rock?
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LineageOS for microG [microg.org] is pretty good.
None of the Google apps, but most Android apps will sitll work anyway.
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Does your phone have a SIM? You don't need location on, tower based triangulation does a plenty good job.
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Yes, you can, a 112 or [$regional emergency service number] call will always be accepted by whichever tower has the phone strongest, SIM or not. Your phone will still ping towers looking for a connection though even when idle without a SIM (unless you're in aeroplane mode, which kills your WiFi). Of course, with no ID method (SIM) the towers will reject the phone. That does not mean you won't have a nice log of all the towers your IMEI failed to attach to.
And that's my point, unless your phone is in your fr
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Not all products are for all people.
No, that would be actively stupid (Score:3)
They didn't do the work, they just bundled it.
What I would do is find a phone that I could load GrapheneOS onto myself, and then I would do that.
Rent seeking on someone else's labor is crap
No (Score:2)
Especially because I would have no guarantee at all it is what I will really get.
Seriously? (Score:2)
Paying someone to NOT do something?
Rings a bell ... isn't that called danegeld?
Eff them.
Recently switched from Telus because they were charging me $5/month to NOT use data.
Priced themselves out of the market (Score:2)
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That's a model MS are desperately trying to leave behind because providing support for many years costs a lot but does not provide any ongoing revenue. And this is MS who can benefit from massive economies of scale. A smaller vendor doesn't have that luxury.
No (Score:2)
1. The question is moot in the US because your not on carrier whitelists therefore no VoLTE for you.
2. There is a long history of security / privacy focused one trick ponies delivering none of the above and quickly going out of business.
3. It is scummy in the extreme to rent access to something you didn't write and only superficially tweaked.
4. They talk about privacy and yet the first thing you do.... drumroll... create an account.
will it work at an min level (emergency call?) (Score:2)
will it work at an min level (emergency call?) with no sub or no internet to check licensing?
So it's $15 a month... (Score:2)
... for something the company "promises", but you have no way of checking yourself. Why on earth would that company not secretly sell your data... or be forced to sell your data?
BTW if you just want your software to run on a more secure system, just use text-based software and use mosh (based on SSH) to connect to your computer at home.
Ha ha, no. (Score:2)
Rob Braxman (Score:2)
Privacy!
Phone, VPN
https://bytzvpn.com/ [bytzvpn.com]
https://youtu.be/kUffPJzRGT4?s... [youtu.be]
https://brax.me/prod/host.php?... [brax.me]
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vpn is a almost insignificant part in the privacy war. if your browser/apps/phone track you (even location) , it do not matter what IP you are using
Good move. Not FOSS. (Score:2)
This is great stuff, and a move in the right direction given what happened with Blackphone.
No source code?
No peer review?
Monthly fee?
No thanks.
I run a deGoogled OS: I already have all that free (Score:2)
So no.
Extra Steps (Score:2)
This is just GrapheneOS wearing a mask. Why get this instead of just getting a Graphene phone?
Names (Score:2)
The fact that they can't even pick a name and stick with it doesn't give me warm fuzzies about its stability...
Sure! (Score:2)
Re: Sure! (Score:2)
Of course the answer is "no" (Score:2)
Unknown company (Score:2)
A new Swiss-based privacy company
That's all you need to know. This is a new company that nobody knows, and nobody has any reason to trust. They will, as likely as not, take your money and run, and then sell your private data anyway.
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They will, as likely as not, take your money and run, and then sell your private data anyway.
Exactly this...and I see *nothing* but cons.
For the sake of argument, let's assume that they actually will hold up their end of the bargain. Users *must* create an account in order to ensure that they pay the subscription fee, and the phone *must* enforce the termination of the "Apostrophy Services" if the subscription is terminated. Only the main website linked even addresses the "what if I don't pay the subscription" question, and they're pretty coy about what the "Apostrophy Services" are. If they're bas
volla OS (Score:2)
So it is the same as volla OS, but with subscription and not available only to volla phones
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and e-os and probably others
most fund their development selling their own phones, but nothing stops from instaling in other phones
Yes. But... (Score:1)
I would probably pay for it, if I was convinced that it solved the problem. But that's the problem - how do I know that? There isn't a company out there, that doesn't say it values customers' privacy. So how do we know who really does it?
15$/month does sound expensive, but it's not in the rip off category. I have bought bitwarden for everyone in the company, and if I was convinced that this really solved privacy on phones, I would offer it to everyone as well.
preorder now. ugh. NO ! (Score:2)
Nope. (Score:2)
How about they pay *us* for use of our private info, with the option for us to opt-out TO BEGIN WITH on firing up the phone?