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Wireless Networking Network The Internet

LG Washing Machine Found Sending 3.7 GB of Data a Day (tomshardware.com) 130

Posted by BeauHD from the what-is-the-world-coming-to dept.
An LG washing machine owner discovered that his smart home appliance was uploading an average of 3.66GB of data daily. "Concerned about the washer's internet addiction, Johnie forced the device to go cold turkey and blocked it using his router UI," reports Tom's Hardware. From the report: Johnie's initial screenshot showed that on a chosen day, the device uploaded 3.57GB and downloaded about 100MB, and the data traffic was almost constant. Meanwhile, according to the Asus router interface screenshot, the washing machine accounted for just shy of 5% of Johnie's internet traffic daily. The LG washing machine owner saw the fun in his predicament and joked that the device might use Wi-Fi for "DLCs (Downloadable Laundry Cycles)." He wasn't entirely kidding: The machine does download presets for various types of apparel. However, the lion's share of the data transferred was uploaded.

Working through the thread, we note that Johnie also pondered the possibility of someone using his washing machine for crypto mining. "I'd gladly rent our LPU (Laundry Processing Unit) by the hour," he quipped. Again, there was the glimmer of a possibility that there could be truth behind this joke. Another social media user highlighted a history of hackers taking over LG smart-connected appliances. The SmartThinQ home appliances HomeHack vulnerability was patched several weeks after being made public. A similar modern hack might use the washing machine's computer resources as part of a botnet. Taking control of an LG washing machine as part of a large botnet for cryptocurrency mining or nefarious networking purposes wouldn't be as far-fetched as it sounds. Large numbers of relatively low-power devices can be formidable together. One of the more innocent theories regarding the significant data uploads suggested laundry data was being uploaded to LG so it could improve its LLM (Large Laundry Model). It sought to do this to prepare for the launch of its latest "AI washer-dryer combo" at CES, joked Johnie.

For now, it looks like the favored answer to the data mystery is to blame Asus for misreporting it. We may never know what happened with Johnie, who is now running his LG washing machine offline. Another relatively innocent reason for the supposed high volume of uploads could be an error in the Asus router firmware. In a follow-up post a day after his initial Tweet, Johnie noted "inaccuracy in the ASUS router tool," with regard to Apple iMessage data use. Other LG smart washing machine users showed device data use from their router UIs. It turns out that these appliances more typically use less than 1MB per day.
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LG Washing Machine Found Sending 3.7 GB of Data a Day

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  • OF (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @08:49PM (#64165425)

    Maybe the washing machine had an OnlyFans account. Listen to it get wet while it whispers instead of making the normal noises.

  • April Fool's day? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Brett Buck ( 811747 ) on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @08:53PM (#64165435)

    Why the heck to you want a washing machine hooked up to the internet? You can't figure out what cycle to use without looking on TikTok, or something?

            Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

    • Re:April Fool's day? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by anoncoward69 ( 6496862 ) on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @08:58PM (#64165453)
      Likely so you can check the progress of the wash though your phone. Could be handy where your washer is in a distant part of the house, your basement or your garage. Suspicious why it's sending that much data though.
      • Well it was never found to actually be sending this much data. This article is just clickbait nameing 2 companies who's equipment was probably fine, and a guy who could have made it up for laughs or at least didnt know enough about computer networks to monitor the traffic any other way to prove anything. Yet here we are. Did you know my toaster is sending 7TB a day according to the foobar app on my phone?

      • Great, but the question still stands: Why does it need to be connected to the *Internet*?

        Local network access, fine. I get an alert when connected to the same network as the washer.... but why would I need to know anything about laundry when I am out of the house?

        I could maybe see this as being handy for a public laundromat or in a shared apartment building scenario, but that's not how these particular appliances work. It assumes a 1:1 relationship with the owner.

    • Does this thing have to be hooked up to the Internet? Maybe for firmware updates, but I'd rather have the machine have a SD card slot and some easy to use procedure to copy the signed firmware binary to the appliance, stuff it in, hit "update firmware", confirm levels, let it do the upgrade, reboot, and call it done. This way, your appliances [arstechnica.com] don't get nailed by ransomware, and the washer maker doesn't have to play an always losing game against the bad guys, because an air-gap goes a long, long way to ens

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by iAmWaySmarterThanYou ( 10095012 )

        I have one of these. It calls home to LG. It isn't listening to public internet for random connections.

        In theory I can have it start a load remotely but that's pointless because obviously I can't load it remotely.

        It can also download one of several additional cycle types but I run everything on normal or heavy so that's not a big deal either.

        It sends my phone an alert when it finishes a cycle, when it gets stuck, and when it thinks I should clean the filter or other maintenance.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          The remote start feature is so that you can load it up, but not start it until electricity is cheap.

          It's most likely a bug. A friend had a crappy phone where the weather app used several gigabytes of data. Returned the phone in the end, since it was the built-in weather app and not one she had installed. It's not that difficult for crapware to get into an update loop or something that wastes massive amounts of data.

          • The remote start feature is so that you can load it up, but not start it until electricity is cheap.

            Electricity gets cheap.....?

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

              The cheapest option in the UK is to have a variable tariff. The price changes in half hour slots, based on demand and supply. When there is a lot of wind and little demand, sometimes the price actually goes negative. You can get paid to use electricity.

              Some smart devices take advantage of that, like car chargers. They wait until energy it at the cheapest predicted level (predictions are pretty good in the medium term, say 12 hours) and then charge the car, your home battery, heat up water and the like. You

              • The cheapest option in the UK is to have a variable tariff. The price changes in half hour slots, based on demand and supply. When there is a lot of wind and little demand, sometimes the price actually goes negative. You can get paid to use electricity.

                I don't think we have anything like that anywhere in the US.

                • Re: (Score:2)

                  by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

                  I thought they did in Texas. Some people got massive bills when they had that cold snap.

                • The cheapest option in the UK is to have a variable tariff. The price changes in half hour slots, based on demand and supply. When there is a lot of wind and little demand, sometimes the price actually goes negative. You can get paid to use electricity.

                  I don't think we have anything like that anywhere in the US.

                  In Texas we have a few energy providers that offer plans for things like free nights and/or weekends. In theory you could sign up for such a plan and run your house on a battery during the day and charge it plus run more energy intensive appliances at night. In reality though I'm sure they have some kind of limits or requirements.

                • Atlantic City Electric here in NJ offers peak / off-peak usage billing plans. With four adults here, that doesn't work for us.

        • In theory I can have it start a load remotely but that's pointless because obviously I can't load it remotely.

          "Maids" (household wage-slaves) who can't read are cheaper than ones who can read. Plus, they're less likely to steal information about any of your nefarious activities.

          Win-win.

    • send you a notification in your phone when it's done when it's done. so easy yet so important.

      i have a dumb maytag, the designers were so stupid they didn't even put an audible bell when it's done

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by hawk ( 1151 )

        oh, it has a bell.

        It's just never used, as its purpose is to summon the lonely repairman . . . :)

        hawk

    • When the solar power says it's up to running in the morning I can remote start my washing and do it for free

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by grimr ( 88927 )

      IoT. You can't have an Internet of Things without hooking up things to the internet. Duh.

      Now if I can figure out how to hook up socks to the internet I'll be rich!

    • It could be useful. In my house, the kids are responsible for doing their own laundry. Everyone getting a notification when the washer is free or the dryer is done would be helpful. It's not a game changing technology, and shouldn't use more than a few kb of traffic per day, and it's certainly not something that I'd pay extra for, but if a machine I was buying anyway had that feature it could be useful.

  • ...it's probably not sending 3.7 GB per day after all, despite what the title says.

    • Re:So.... (Score:5, Informative)

      by stevel ( 64802 ) on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @09:08PM (#64165475) Homepage

      It's not and has been shown to not be the case. It's an Asus router misidentifying the traffic. I have an LG washer that is connected, and it sends less than 1MB/day on days it's in use.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Hodr ( 219920 )

        Why? What could possibly take 1MB to describe? The cycle speed/time/temp/weight/etc. is a few hundred bytes at most. Is it taking pictures of your unmentionables?

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by stevel ( 64802 )

          "Less than" - it's the lowest my router's monitoring will display. This was after five or six loads. I agree that it shouldn't need much data, though I suppose the handshaking and TLS involves some overhead.

        • It's a few tens of kB with XML bloating it up, just basic stuff like wash temp, point in the wash cycle, that sort of stuff, alongside state-of-health info presumably to help diagnose problems.

          For the people paranoid about the washing machine spying on them and LG selling your data, what data exactly are you worried about? The fact that you ran a delicates cycle at 10am yesterday?

          • You'll worry too if you have to wash all that blood off your clothes after work, and know the prosecutor office might get your washing machine logs.

        • A pretentiously designed xml file

        • Keepalives, HTML formatted data, or XML formatted data, once per second, it quickly adds up.

        • Why? What could possibly take 1MB to describe? The cycle speed/time/temp/weight/etc. is a few hundred bytes at most. Is it taking pictures of your unmentionables?

          By the time you mix data with protocol, add in encryption, handshaking, a few hundred bytes will very quickly become several 10s of kilobytes. I suspect the router doesn't show kilobytes.

  • WTF?

    Who buys this trash?

    • I mean he did add the washer to his Netflix account. Who doesn't catch up on a few episodes while doing laundry?

  • He knows how to handle a misbehaving washing machine...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

    "I'm gonna shove my load into you, whether you like it or not!" .. absolute classic.

  • ...now Xi knows I wear Pokémon underwear, and may use that fact somebody to blackmail me into doing his evil bidding.

  • What is this (Score:4, Interesting)

    by TwistedGreen ( 80055 ) on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @09:13PM (#64165491)

    Is there an actual article or just a link to some guy's Twitter?

  • Faulty router, not washing machine (Score:5, Informative)

    by Guillermito ( 187510 ) on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @09:14PM (#64165495) Homepage
    It's even spelled out in the summary: "For now, it looks like the favored answer to the data mystery is to blame Asus for misreporting it". The LG washing machine seems not to be at fault. Deciding to go with that misleading title is absolutely disgraceful.
    • This is how clickbait works.

    • Deciding to go with that misleading title is absolutely profitable.

      FTFY, just in case the concept of clickbait was still a foreign one. Or the reality of the audience falling for it. Every time.

  • Johnie's initial screenshot showed that on a chosen day, the device uploaded 3.57GB and downloaded about 100MB, and the data traffic was almost constant. Meanwhile, according to the Asus router interface screenshot, the washing machine accounted for just shy of 5% of Johnie's internet traffic daily.

    So they're using about 70GB a day? 2TB a month? Something seems suss.

  • It's fake. (Score:5, Informative)

    by dmay34 ( 6770232 ) on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @09:26PM (#64165521)

    I have the same LG washer and dryer. I'm not seeing anything remotely like that. My washer and dryer use a few hundred KB per day.

    • No it's incorrect. Read the summary, the problem is the router not the washing machine. Slashdot editors should be open handed slapped in the face for publishing this summary with this title.

  • Bitcoin Mining On a Washer? (Score:5, Funny)

    by bill_mcgonigle ( 4333 ) * on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @09:31PM (#64165535) Homepage Journal

    This sounds like the SEC's money-laundering propaganda.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mjwx ( 966435 )

      This sounds like the SEC's money-laundering propaganda.

      More like showing your dirty laundry to the feds.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by hawk ( 1151 )

      using a real washer *does* give new meaning to "money laundering", though!

  • We joked about this in the 2000's (Score:5, Funny)

    by TheDarkener ( 198348 ) on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @09:59PM (#64165567) Homepage

    "Even your TOASTER will be connected to the Internet! Ha! Ha! Ha!" We said.

    Yes, we said it. And now look at what happened.

    God damn it.

    • You jest, but I put a $15 energy monitoring smartplug on my toaster, and setup an automation in Home Assistant to notify my phone when it's done toasting, which is detected by the wattage dropping.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dargaud ( 518470 )
        I'm pretty sure you're joking, but... why would anybody waste so much time setting that up ?
        Case in point, as a longtime geek I never want(ed) anything 'connected' inside my house besides (Linux) computers; mostly for security reasons. And yet for Xmas I got a projector.
        I just spent the last 2 days, while watching a sick kid, trying to set it up, and still it won't do what I want. Already setting it up with the most basic stuff takes time, typing wifi codes with just a remote control is a pain in the ass.

        • I was in no way joking. I have similarly turned most or my plug-in appliances into smart ones.

          I recently replaced my washer and dryer and got LG smart ones. My Ubiquiti network controller app shows they are using minimal data.

          Just earlier today I had a new GE Cafe 30in double oven installed. It's a smart one also. I have it a static IP of .169 in my subnet in pfSense, based on all the other IP devices in the house. This doesn't tell the whole story of my smart home as I also have got 42 Z-wave devices. Home

        • I'm pretty sure you're joking, but... why would anybody waste so much time setting that up ? Case in point, as a longtime geek I never want(ed) anything 'connected' inside my house besides (Linux) computers; mostly for security reasons. And yet for Xmas I got a projector. I just spent the last 2 days, while watching a sick kid, trying to set it up, and still it won't do what I want. Already setting it up with the most basic stuff takes time, typing wifi codes with just a remote control is a pain in the ass.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by dargaud ( 518470 )
            Projector is a recent XGimi with AndroidTV.
            I've already had a long installed Linux NFS server, but I've seen no way to use that on Android, except maybe with Kodi but I couldn't figure out how to configure it.
            So I installed MiniDLNA and a Plex server. I don't like how Plex reorganizes everything, Nova server is different on Android TV than on a phone and also reorganizes everything instead of showing network folders. Finally VLC does the job, although it seems to ignore srt subtitle files. So that's mostl
  • it's where Anton went to hide after the server was destroyed.

  • or are smart devices making consumers dumb?

    Do we REALLY need every bloody device hooked up to the internet?

  • What does God need with a starship?
    What does my washing machine need with an Internet?

  • A washing machine is not a low power machine, it's CPU might be low power but if it's doing something always at 100% usage nobody will notice because the other parts of the machine will use 100x more power. If it had some GPU's it could heat some water while mining, but that shouldn't be the case ;)
  • The internet is a series of "tubes". The water has to go somewhere

  • I'm not surprised, and yet I struggle to imagine what would be happening here, legitimately or otherwise.

    But this does remind me of a talk Bryan Lunduke put on, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HxPzutkNYw&t=1512s . I found the way he approached the subject at the time to be both clever and eye-opening, at least as something to think about.

    Anyway, regardless of this washer's behaviour. Bryan had a good point. How long to we tend to keep our appliances in service, and how keen are we to keep the softwa

  • that's what i hate about iot commected appliances and google's android does it too they just dont give a damn about racking up charges on other people's internet bill

  • I know someone that when they set up an SSID for a Wi-Fi access point they use a name from a benign Wi-Fi enabled appliance like a toaster or washing machine using the exact appliance model number at the SSID. They figure no one's going to bother attacking a toaster that is not really a toaster. So instead of telling visitors to connect to "Bob's house", "Eagle Nest 3", or "Comcast TwrWRSA38", they connect to "WhirlpoolX945G266".

    It's kind of like getting your key for your Ford copied on Mazda stock so if

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Entrope ( 68843 )

      To prevent anyone from trying to hack your WiFi, name it "FBI Surveillance Van #861". I read on the Internet that this is foolproof. For extra safety, keep your access point right next to your anti-tiger rock. After all, you wouldn't want your router to get mauled by a tiger.

  • So if we "assume" it's all true. LG appliance sending that much data on a continuous and sustained basis.

    So assuming it was true, my first guess would likely be some kind of diagnostics crash data upload that continuously fails and retries to upload over and over and over again in a never ending loop. That kind of runaway data use is not unheard of. Similar to how your temp folder might fill up on a computer when similar condition exists except storing locally and not overwriting the same
  • Why does a washing machine have to upload anything in the first place?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by stooo ( 2202012 )

      YES. Backup on everything it can spy on you.
      It probably has a microphone builtin
      "for responding to voice commands" of course.

  • My 15 year old dish washer broke down and there were a sale on Bosch dish washers.
    So I bought the cheapest one and I am quite happy with it. Cleans better than the old, even though the build quality definitely is worse. IDK if a more expensive model is built better but it just seemed to be a feature upgrade.
    Anyways, it has a wifi module and in a momentary lapse of good judgement, I fell for it and connected it to the internet. My experience so far.

    1) The app has forgotten my login credentials every time I u

    • I may have the same model as you - I haven't yet connected it to anything though. Just the "benefits" listed in the doco told me it was pointless. Remote start? Really? The "start in..." thing not quite precise enough or something?

      Elsewhere, I've connected up a smart plug to it, and connected that to OpenHab. Now I get Telegram messages when the cycle's finished which tell me how much electricity it just used. A bit of a gimmick, but handy to know when it's finished because it doesn't beep very much, and it

  • Stuxnet. It thinks your washer is an Iranian uranium centrifuge.
  • How many Library of Congresses is that?
  • Of course it was using loads of data, it's a SOCKS proxy! :)
  • ... does one's washing machine need to upload 1 MB of data, daily? I have an LG washer and it is not internet connected, every now and then I hook it up to receive updates, but then I turn off its access because, Why does it need access daily? To Paraphrase Captain Kirk, "What does LG need a daily download/upload for?"

  • Perhaps someone at LG is running a torrent bot farm on his washing machine.

  • I had an LG washer/dryer pair at my old house. Bought them new from the Sears store in the next city over. They're labeled Kenmore, of course, but were LG products. Front loaders. In only 2 years of use, the washer started leaking water all over the floor. Turned out the culprit was the electronic cold water shut-off valve in it. Was able to buy another off Amazon for $40 or so and replace it myself. 6 months or so after that? It started making odd noises when the drum was rotating and would stop mid-wash

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