iPhone 15 Models Have 'Completely Standard' USB-C Port (arstechnica.com) 76
According to Ars Technica's Andrew Cunningham, the iPhone 15 devices "have completely standard USB-C ports that work just fine with all existing USB 3 and USB-PD (Power Delivery) compliant cables, chargers, and accessories, just like Apple's other devices." It contradicts rumors that Apple's implementation of USB-C would limit data and charging speeds for any accessories not certified through its Made for iPhone (MFI) program. From the report: We'll still need to test the phones to know for sure how they'll behave with different things plugged into them, but all of Apple's official authentication-chip-less USB-C chargers and cables quietly had their compatibility tables updated this week to include all iPhone 15 models. That also includes chargers from third parties like Mophie and Belkin that pre-date the iPhone 15's introduction.
That's not to say that there won't be some kind of licensing program available for iPhone-compatible USB-C accessories. But fears that these cables would be required, and that the iPhone wouldn't work just fine with otherwise standards-compliant USB-C cables and chargers, were unfounded.
That's not to say that there won't be some kind of licensing program available for iPhone-compatible USB-C accessories. But fears that these cables would be required, and that the iPhone wouldn't work just fine with otherwise standards-compliant USB-C cables and chargers, were unfounded.
Docking Stations (Score:3)
So how will it work with docking stations? Can you plug it in to a USB-C docking station, get keyboard, mouse, and ethernet? What about video?
I know Samsung has DEX for this, but it doesn't support video the way most USB docking stations do it. Phones have plenty of power for simple desktop use cases, so I've always wondered why I'm bringing a laptop to work to plug into a docking station instead of just plugging in my phone. If anyone is going to get this to work right, it's Apple.
Imagine that if you plug your iPhone into a docking station, you suddenly had a OS X environment. That's a pretty killer feature.
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Apple tried something similar already, but with laptops instead of phones. The PowerBook Duo models were as small and lightweight as feasible. They also sold a docking station with a coprocessor to help the CPU, a discrete video adaptor, additional VRAM, expansion slots, extra ports, and support for a full-sized external monitor. It was as neat an idea then as it is now. But...
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Apple tried something similar already, but with laptops instead of phones. The PowerBook Duo models were as small and lightweight as feasible. They also sold a docking station with a coprocessor to help the CPU, a discrete video adaptor, additional VRAM, expansion slots, extra ports, and support for a full-sized external monitor. It was as neat an idea then as it is now. But...
I don't know the reason but I'm imagining "price" was a factor.
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Most likely, $2500 for the laptop, and another $1000 for the dock. By the end of the Duo's run the desktops were 68040 based, a generation ahead of the duo's 68030 and the PPC processors were about to come out.
Everything would have to be re-engineered, and the sales volume wasn't enough to justify that.
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Stability wasn't great either. Had a number of execs with them and they had little issues - what we'd call drivers on Windows or Linux - that regular Powerbook users didn't have. We took them all back and got rid of them fairly quickly as a result. Also, it was about time for the PPC launch.
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I remember the Duos. There were a bunch of them when I was at Dartmouth, which was a total Mac campus back then. A good number of the CS students went to work for Apple, which I'm sure has turned out great for them.
Re:Docking Stations (Score:4, Insightful)
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With a laptop where you plug in USB-C and get video there's three ways this happens:
Offtopic but shouldn't it be "there are" rather than "there is"? I see this more and more in recent years. Is this a new modification to the English language or just a fleeting trend?
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that thar just ain't right!
hawk, grammar nazi
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I'm guessing that part of selling is not confusing the customer. And even just the subtitles around form factor can have a big impact. And in the interests of selling people five computers each instead of one, you probably do want to maintain the clarity and separation between form factors. I basically decided to stop at three (desktop, tablet, phone) so no watch, and no headset. Apple don't do cheap displays and keyboards, so a phone with peripherals would do what, at best kill their laptops and macOS?
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That depends. I'm sure they know their markets extremely well. They know exactly what portion of Mac owners use iPhones, and what portion of iPhone users have Macs.
Now suppose they had an app from the app store that provided a full MacOS environment when connected to a docking station. (They might need to add Thunderbolt to the iPhone, but otherwise there should be no technical barriers.)
First many people who would use that app wouldn't directly avoid a laptop purchase, but for those that do, what portio
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>If they were able to use this feature to erode the Windows dominance,
but apple has not much more reason to want that than Ford has to take chevy automobile. Apple already has the dominant spot in the more profitable upper end.
Now, Ford would *definitely* be interested in switching Cadillac buyers to Lincoln, of Chevy & GMC trucks to their own. But I can't name a comparable market for Apple.
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Now suppose they had an app from the app store that provided a full MacOS environment when connected to a docking station.
That app would be "RDP" or "VNC" or something else that gives you remote access to a real machine running another OS. I have literally lost count of the number of projects that have tried to sell the idea that your phone is your only computing device, and all you need to replace your desktop/laptop is access to pluggable form factor upgrades and an adaptive OS. None of those projects have gone anywhere beyond press releases, demos at CES, and fanboi purchases. There are a lot of reasons for this (besides th
Re: Docking Stations (Score:2)
I hate to be "that guy", but iOS, iPadOS, and MacOS are all 3 different operating systems, fyi. Though it would be neat.
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Yes, but the processor should be compatible, so they could have a MacOS app similar to how there are Linux environment apps on Android.
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Interestingly, even the 1Gb/s ethernet cable connection on the station got configured properly.
Has HELL frozen over? (Score:1)
Wasn't it Jobs who said something along the lines that he'd "never allow" putting a "standard" port on the iPhone?
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Got a cite on that? I have no recollection on that being something he said. I'm not saying he didn't, I just don't recall it happening.
Over the years Apple has had dozens of failed proprietary connectors. I think Lightning is the last one left, and it's finally dying.
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He said it during every conference, it was his opening statement. Even when ports weren't being discussed.
You forgot the Sarcasm Tag. . .
Re: Has HELL frozen over? (Score:2)
>Over the years Apple has had dozens of failed proprietary connectors. I think Lightning is the last one left, and it's finally dying.
Failed? Hardly. It was in use for just over a decade, same as its predecessor. Both connectors have between them shipped on billions of units.
Re:Has HELL frozen over? (Score:4, Informative)
No? You might be thinking of this:
It's also possible something was said about never putting micro-USB on an iPhone. Quite right. Micro-USB is awful.
Re: Has HELL frozen over? (Score:2)
I guess I never got the hate for micro USB. Mini, yeah, it was crap, but micro USB I had (and still have) on tons of stuff. Aside from being directional, I haven't had tons of failed connectors or anything, it still works, even my oldest chargers are fine.
Seems like it has been a pretty solid connector design.
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You have to get it in the right orientation. It's fine, but the pain adds up if it's something that gets plugged and unplugged a lot (like a phone) or plugged and unplugged a lot where you can't see it (like a phone in the dark). There's a reason having to try to plug in a USB connector three times is a meme.
If you've got nothing else it's fine, but lightning didn't have that problem. USB finally moved past "how do we put a metal collar around a PCB so you can't plug it in upside down" with USB-C.
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I have never heard of such a thing. The lightning connector was developed because micro-USB and USB mini both sucked balls. They put so much into it that they had to milk it, and everyone was used to it. The switch from the 30-pin to lightning was a disaster. The ONLY reason they did this was the EU mandate and if they did some monkey business with USB-C the EU would fine the FK out of them. There is no great conspiracy but if posts like this didn't happen then it wouldn't be /. :D
No, chargers went USB-C, so it simplifies things (Score:1)
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Tim Cook's been pretty open that they only changed because they didn't have a choice.
I think their original plan was to ride out lightning for a few more years, then just get rid of the port and do everything wirelessly. Between AirPods, MagSafe charging, and iCloud syncing, people use the port far less than they used to.
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I have never heard of such a thing. The lightning connector was developed because micro-USB and USB mini both sucked balls. They put so much into it that they had to milk it, and everyone was used to it. The switch from the 30-pin to lightning was a disaster. The ONLY reason they did this was the EU mandate and if they did some monkey business with USB-C the EU would fine the FK out of them. There is no great conspiracy but if posts like this didn't happen then it wouldn't be /. :D
Almost correct.
Lightning was Apple's response to the EU's previous sabre-rattling about requiring that abominable MicroUSB (aren't they smart?) Connector; which Apple (oh, so rightly!) opposed, rather than Apple simply being allowed to continue using its original 30-pin " liPod Dock" connector.
Importantly, there was no USB-C connector when Lightning was introduced; in fact, certain features of USB-C, most notably its wonderful position-agnostic design, actually came from Apple's work on Lightning.
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apple rushed to lightning because they realized it would be hard to make USBC proprietary ( isnt apple just shitty like that) lightning was nothing but one of a series of dick moves by apple. ( but thats to be expected from them right)
Lightning preceded the first design drafts of USB-C by two full years. Yes, Apple wanting to milk the Made-for-iPhone program for a few more years might have been part of the reason to choose it over micro-USB (another BIG part being that the micro-USB connector is absolute s**t), but not USB-C.
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apple rushed to lightning because they realized it would be hard to make USBC proprietary ( isnt apple just shitty like that)
lightning was nothing but one of a series of dick moves by apple. ( but thats to be expected from them right)
Lightning preceded the first design drafts of USB-C by two full years. Yes, Apple wanting to milk the Made-for-iPhone program for a few more years might have been part of the reason to choose it over micro-USB (another BIG part being that the micro-USB connector is absolute s**t), but not USB-C.
Wrong.
Don't you remember, back around 2009-10, there was this big bunch of BS by the EU that was going to force the (Android-common) MicroUSB Connector on all Cellphone "Charging Cables". Another misplaced "Think of the Landfills" initiative (don't get me started on lead-free electronic solder...).
This Article is originally from 2010:
https://www.engadget.com/2010-... [engadget.com]
Apple said "Connector sucks balls; ain't gonna happen!" and about a year later (IIRC), Lightning was born. . .
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apple rushed to lightning because they realized it would be hard to make USBC proprietary ( isnt apple just shitty like that) lightning was nothing but one of a series of dick moves by apple. ( but thats to be expected from them right)
Lightning preceded the first design drafts of USB-C by two full years. Yes, Apple wanting to milk the Made-for-iPhone program for a few more years might have been part of the reason to choose it over micro-USB (another BIG part being that the micro-USB connector is absolute s**t), but not USB-C.
Wrong.
Don't you remember, back around 2009-10, there was this big bunch of BS by the EU that was going to force the (Android-common) MicroUSB Connector on all Cellphone "Charging Cables". Another misplaced "Think of the Landfills" initiative (don't get me started on lead-free electronic solder...).
Micro-USB is not USB-C.
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apple rushed to lightning because they realized it would be hard to make USBC proprietary ( isnt apple just shitty like that)
lightning was nothing but one of a series of dick moves by apple. ( but thats to be expected from them right)
Lightning preceded the first design drafts of USB-C by two full years. Yes, Apple wanting to milk the Made-for-iPhone program for a few more years might have been part of the reason to choose it over micro-USB (another BIG part being that the micro-USB connector is absolute s**t), but not USB-C.
Wrong.
Don't you remember, back around 2009-10, there was this big bunch of BS by the EU that was going to force the (Android-common) MicroUSB Connector on all Cellphone "Charging Cables". Another misplaced "Think of the Landfills" initiative (don't get me started on lead-free electronic solder...).
Micro-USB is not USB-C.
No fooling.
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How would Apple know that about USB-C when the specification came out almost two years after Apple had released Lightning products to the public? While Apple might have a reality distortion field, I was not aware it included time travel.
Apple Haters will even ignore the AFAICT inexorable forward-direction of the passage of Time itself, in their desperate attempts to ascribe a self-serving or greedy motive to absolutely anything connected to Apple, including, but not limited to, what breakfast cereal Tim Cook chooses. . .
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totally wrong.
apple rushed to lightning because they realized it would be hard to make USBC proprietary ( isnt apple just shitty like that)
lightning was nothing but one of a series of dick moves by apple. ( but thats to be expected from them right)
I was wrong; you are as stupid as you look!
Loser.
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He's dead Jim.
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He was rumored to have said, "Over my dead body!"
Re:Has HELL frozen over? (Score:5, Funny)
He was rumored to have said, "Over my dead body!"
That explains all those weird hardware team off-site meetings at the cemetery. :-D
The EU directive mandates USB-C + USB-PD stds. (Score:5, Insightful)
People lose sight of the fact that the EU directive mandated USB-C + USB-PD Standards. All the talk about apple using a non-standard implementation of USB when migrating to the USB-C connector would have completeley collided with the obligation of being 100% USB-PD compliant, so were we aree, with a bounch of surprised anal-ysts
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Wait, WHAT? The EU is now mandating STDs? And you Europeans are okay with that?
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Yeah. As unlikely as it seems, this time whoever wrote the directive actually had a brain AND USED IT instead of borrowing what passed for their thoughts from the lobbyists.
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Wait, WHAT? The EU is now mandating STDs? And you Europeans are okay with that?
I say as someone has to use EU standards and has zero say on them: yes? Why wouldn't I be?
Also, I'd love to know where you live that all standards a voluntary...
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Wait, WHAT? The EU is now mandating STDs? And you Europeans are okay with that?
I say as someone has to use EU standards and has zero say on them: yes? Why wouldn't I be?
Okay, would you rather have the mandated AIDS or the mandated Chlamydia?
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Oh FML I'm too much of a C++ nerd and read STD automatically as "standard". looks like I just got pwn3d by the "real world" (tm).
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Oh FML I'm too much of a C++ nerd and read STD automatically as "standard". looks like I just got pwn3d by the "real world" (tm).
Yeah, I was cracking up by that point. It almost felt like an Abbott and Costello gag, only the nerd version of it. :-D
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It can supply USB PD but still have proprietary crap for peripherals. Can you plug in a standard USB C card read, and pull data off your SD cards? Can you connect a standard USB C hub and keyboard to make data entry quicker?
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Yep. Though this is not new. You could do the same thing with the lightning-to-USB3 adapter. What's new is that the USBC port provides 4.5 watts of power, which is enough to:
* charge an apple watch
* charge an airpods case
* charge the apple pencil
* charge another iPhone (slowly)
* Power a small external SSD, like the Samsung T5, and record ProRes video onto it with a data rate >200MB per second.
Not quite (Score:1)
Apple most certainly are limiting data speeds on the iPhone 15. You can read the spec on their own website. The iPhone 15 supposed USB 2.0 data rates. Apparently you need to spend more and get an iPhone 15 Pro or iPhone 15 Max to access the wonderous 15 year old USB 3.0 standard that is normal on virtually every other phone including many bottom tier phones.
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Built in USB controller to the chip used on the iPhone 15 Pro, and possibly an external chip on iPhone 15. (Still no excuse, just further explaining it.)
Re:Not quite (Score:5, Informative)
Built in USB controller to the chip used on the iPhone 15 Pro, and possibly an external chip on iPhone 15. (Still no excuse, just further explaining it.)
Different CPU entirely. The iPhone 15 and 15 Max use an A16 CPU, which is the same CPU as in the iPhone 14 Pro and Pro Max, which were both Lightning devices with only USB 2.0 hardware. The iPhone 15 Pro (and Pro Max) use an A17 Pro CPU, which presumably has USB 3 cores.
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Built in USB controller to the chip used on the iPhone 15 Pro, and possibly an external chip on iPhone 15. (Still no excuse, just further explaining it.)
Different CPU entirely. The iPhone 15 and 15 Max use an A16 CPU, which is the same CPU as in the iPhone 14 Pro and Pro Max, which were both Lightning devices with only USB 2.0 hardware. The iPhone 15 Pro (and Pro Max) use an A17 Pro CPU, which presumably has USB 3 cores.
And by cores, I of course meant cells.
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The weasel word is "port." It has a completely standard USB-C port.
It doesn't support anything you'd expect from USB-C, like you said, it implements USB 2.0 over USB-C. It doesn't support USB-PD as a result. It doesn't have to, it just has to be capable of charging, and it does.
The iPhone 15 Pro/Pro Max (the Max is a larger Pro, there is no 15 Max) don't support anything other than faster speeds, either. No HDMI, no DisplayPort, no PD, just the same non-standard "resistance across pins" things earlier iPhon
Re:Not quite (Score:5, Informative)
The weasel word is "port." It has a completely standard USB-C port.
It doesn't support anything you'd expect from USB-C, like you said, it implements USB 2.0 over USB-C.
So do most USB-C charge cables. AFAIK, nothing in the spec says that a USB-C port *must* be USB 3.x, though it typically is. Apple saved some money, and used the iPhone 14 Pro silicon in the non-Pro iPhone 15 rather than design a whole new SoC, and the result is that it can't support USB 3. Be glad that they didn't do what they did on the iPad, and make only the Pro models be USB-C until the port trickled down to the standard model. :-)
It doesn't support USB-PD as a result. It doesn't have to, it just has to be capable of charging, and it does.
Nope. That does not follow. USB-PD support and USB PHY speed are entirely orthogonal. USB-PD uses separate pins for communicating with the upstream device and configuring how the cable will be used, including power delivery. AFAIK, USB-PD communication is almost always handled by a separate chip on separate pins, and is entirely independent of the USB silicon.
AFAIK, the iPhone 15 supports charging up to 18W just like every other iPhone from the iPhone 8 on, and anything over 15W absolutely requires USB-PD. So I'm 99.999% sure that you're wrong about it not supporting USB-PD. It isn't explicitly stated in the spec, but unless it charges about 17% slower than every iPhone model from the previous six years, it supports USB-PD. :-)
And yes, this means that every iPhone from the iPhone 8 onwards supports USB-PD. I'm pretty sure they do so by puppeteering the chip inside the USB-C-to-Lightning cable, but they support it.
The iPhone 15 Pro/Pro Max (the Max is a larger Pro, there is no 15 Max) don't support anything other than faster speeds, either. No HDMI, no DisplayPort, no PD, just the same non-standard "resistance across pins" things earlier iPhones did.
But they do, technically, have a standard port.
Actually, all four models also support DisplayPort [macrumors.com] up to 4K HDR according to their tech specs page.
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"Apple saved some money, and used the iPhone 14 Pro silicon in the non-Pro iPhone 15 rather than design a whole new SoC..."
Yet they designed a "whole new SoC" for another phone introduced at the exact same time. Some money savings there.
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"Apple saved some money, and used the iPhone 14 Pro silicon in the non-Pro iPhone 15 rather than design a whole new SoC..."
Yet they designed a "whole new SoC" for another phone introduced at the exact same time. Some money savings there.
The pro models have always used a faster/more advanced SoC than the non-pro models. They saved money by not designing a *second* whole new SoC.
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'Yet they designed a "whole new SoC" for another phone introduced at the exact same time. Some money savings there.'
Over the lifetime of the chip the NRE of design dominates the marginal cost of manufacture. However, the yields of first silicon are crap. At the moment of an iPhone release you're probably moving a combined million units a day so either you are buying significantly more wafers to make up for the yield or initially put the part only in small-volume high-margin SKUs. This may also give you the
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'Yet they designed a "whole new SoC" for another phone introduced at the exact same time. Some money savings there.'
Over the lifetime of the chip the NRE of design dominates the marginal cost of manufacture. However, the yields of first silicon are crap. At the moment of an iPhone release you're probably moving a combined million units a day so either you are buying significantly more wafers to make up for the yield or initially put the part only in small-volume high-margin SKUs. This may also give you the opportunity to do part binning for the downmarket SKUs.
Rumor has it the 3nm process used for the new chips in the 15 Pro have only a 55% yield. Also, there are very limited plants that are capable of producing them, and Apple is expected to basically use 100% of their manufacturing capacity for the next couple of years just for the iPhone 15 Pro models. No amount of binning is going to salvage that situation; you absolutely do *not* want a high-volume device like the iPhone 15 to be subject to such severe capacity limitations.
So realistically, the choices wer
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So do most USB-C charge cables. AFAIK, nothing in the spec says that a USB-C port *must* be USB 3.x
Actually there's nothing in the spec for a USB-C port that says it needs to be USB at all. It only defines the electrical properties. The other USB specs defines the requirements on the port to use.
This is why the EU regulation was also quite specific in saying that the device must have a USB-C port and implement USB-PD.
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>No HDMI, no DisplayPort,
just asking, as I have no idea: do most androids support these over their usb socket?
Too bad lightning cable was USB2 speed. (Score:2)
Apple could had upgraded it faster speed for those who still old school cables like me.
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Apple could had upgraded it faster speed for those who still old school cables like me.
Yeah, it never made much sense that they could add USB 3 silicon in the iPad Pro but not the iPhone Pro. But such is life. At least the new iPhone 15 Pro has proper USB-C with USB 3 silicon.
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It makes sense when you understand that Apple doesn't want syncing over USB. They make money on iCloud.
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It makes sense when you understand that Apple doesn't want syncing over USB. They make money on iCloud.
iOS supports Wi-Fi syncing to computers on the local network. For the average user, cabling up the device to the computer by USB isn't worth the hassle even for the ~10x speed boost that it provides when done with USB-C, much less the mere 5x speed boost that USB 3.0 could provide over Lightning.
So I *seriously* doubt that iCloud was ever a consideration when it comes to USB hardware.
The more likely reason is that USB 3.0 cells and associated hardware cost considerably more than USB 2.0 cells, and a few ex
I Wonder (Score:2)
In the past iPhones had issues with cellular reception & transmission - and Apple said "You are holding it wrong"
Now we have iPhones that will use USB-PD. What could go wrong? Right?
Just imagine if the iPhone 15 develops "iPhone not charging" problems and Apple's response is "You plugged it in wrong. Try the other way."
Why the fear? (Score:2)
FAAFO reality check (Score:1)
Apple had the option of playing "Fuck Around And Find Out" with something the political leadership of a Large And Wildly Fucking Profitable Market of their's cared about and Apple decided against playing "Fuck Around And Find Out", and analysts are surprised Apple didn't play Fuck Around And Find Out?
My conclusion is analysts are like movie critics. They're so used to slavishly considering what all other movie critics will say they barely watch the film to do their supposed job (Rotten Tomatoes for all its