FCC Proposes Satellite-to-Phone Rules To Eliminate 'No Signal' Once and For All (techcrunch.com) 43
The FCC has officially proposed, and voted unanimously to move forward with, a framework under which satellites can communicate directly with smartphones in a structured and useful way. From a report: The Notice of Proposed Rulemaking, circulated earlier this month and formally voted on today, is essentially a complete first public draft of what the FCC hopes to accomplish by establishing rules and guidelines around this emerging area of communication. Apple already made the news with a dramatic rescue made possible by its new emergency satellite feature, and companies like Lynk and AST SpaceMobile are working on providing universally accessible two-way data anywhere in the world.
Qualcomm and Iridium are integrating the capability at the chipset level. T-Mobile and SpaceX have said they plan to test their own Starlink-based system this year, and plenty of others are looking to enter the fray. There's still the matter of how this space-based connectivity would integrate with existing systems. Our mobile networks run on very carefully defined frequencies so that phones and towers don't interfere with one another, including satellites, which have totally different frequencies and signal powers.
Qualcomm and Iridium are integrating the capability at the chipset level. T-Mobile and SpaceX have said they plan to test their own Starlink-based system this year, and plenty of others are looking to enter the fray. There's still the matter of how this space-based connectivity would integrate with existing systems. Our mobile networks run on very carefully defined frequencies so that phones and towers don't interfere with one another, including satellites, which have totally different frequencies and signal powers.
Dish (Score:5, Funny)
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Satellites in a geosynchronous orbit could cover large areas to allow people over vast distances to share one cell in a cellular phone network. This is not likely to be the case since a satellite at that height would introduce a delay in the line that would be annoying, even for people that are close to each other on Earth so long as the link is through that satellite. Another problem with sharing a cell over such large areas is the number of calls that each satellite must handle. Three geosynchronous sa
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I see a couple problems here. First, you appear to have missed that I was pointing out the absurdity of sharing a satellite based cellular phone cell with satellites above LEO. Second, it appears you also missed the absurdity of how I was mistaking which kind of cell would be shared. I was trying to make a subtle joke on the mistaken kind of cell being shared but it seems I missed my mark.
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So do the proposed rules say anywhere that no phone may ever say "no signal"? Or is this just a possible consequence maybe of some hot-and-bothered "journo" blubbering?
It's an editor making things up for a click-bait headline. There's some truth to this as a smart phone that is equipped with the means to make phone calls by cellular, WiFi, and satellite there's going to be few places that humans could go and not be able to make a phone call. That is a bit unfortunate since it means people going on a hike in some park might still be expected to answer the phone. Personal emergency locator beacons have been a thing for quite some time so the ability to call for help exis
Re:Clickbait is clicky and baity and clickbait (Score:4, Interesting)
Personal emergency locator beacons have been a thing for quite some time so the ability to call for help exists if outside where the phone system reaches. Getting such beacons to work does mean a separate device and subscription fee though, and some people are too cheap to get one and end up paying for it with their life.
Don't be an ass. It's not about "too cheap". If some random wacko kills you on the street, are you "too cheap" for not having hired a personal bodyguard? Or are we all just inundated with a million potential monthly-fee subscription services and we have to make a value judgement about which ones we can afford and are likely to be beneficial to us?
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A random act of violence in what I presume is a populated area is distinct from wandering off into the wilderness alone with no means to alert others if something happens that could prevent coming out under one's own power. It's not just being "too cheap" but choosing to go someplace known to be hostile to human life. I guess there is a parallel to getting killed at random on a city street if one chooses to enter a neighborhood known to be hostile to "outsiders" and not paying for some means to protect th
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It's a little ridiculous though to assume that anyone outdoors beyond range of cellphones should be expected to have a beacon. You can be out-of-range without being deep in the backcountry.
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It's a little ridiculous though to assume that anyone outdoors beyond range of cellphones should be expected to have a beacon.
I don't know where that came from.
You can be out-of-range without being deep in the backcountry.
Yes, indeed you can. Being outside of cell phone range while being deep in the back country is not always a wise thing to do. Being in cell phone range means the chances are high of summoning assistance when in need, even when well off a well beaten path. Going out of cell phone range on a well traveled road, hiking path, or river, is not likely to be a risky thing to do as someone is likely to be along soon enough to summon assistance if needed.
I did point out that it i
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If you don't want to be contacted, turn off the phone. Feel free to claim it must have run out of battery while you were on the hike. Or claim you weren't sure if you might run out and wanted to preserve power for a potential emergency. Or leave the phone on and don't answer and say the same things (or "didn't hear it ring" -- if you place great value on being technically correct in al
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There is a old saying "Don't judge a book by its cover"
Which also could apply don't judge an article by its title.
Because every title is clickbait, or reason to buy a paper, or stay on the TV to watch what is next.
I mean... "Coming up next, a list of new FCC proposed regulations." vs. "Coming up next, are you tired of No Signal, these new FCC regulations may help"
Who wrote this crap? (Score:2, Interesting)
There's still the matter of how this space-based connectivity would integrate with existing systems. Our mobile networks run on very carefully defined frequencies so that phones and towers don't interfere with one another, including satellites, which have totally different frequencies and signal powers.
No, there still is not the matter of how this space-based connectivity would integrate. It's called Voice-over-IP and push notifications. They have existed for years.
These satellite networks are designed to carry internet traffic, so let them do that. Pop a robust VoIP gateway up and call it a day. Then, when 6G cellular comes around, shitcan the separate voice protocols and just use prioritized VoIP there too.
Is there any reason in 2023 to have separate protocols for realtime unicast streaming compress
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Is there any reason in 2023 to have separate protocols for realtime unicast streaming compressed two-way audio instead of treating it like any other data stream on a network that features QoS prioritization?
Calling emergency services could be one reason.
Calling 911 (at least in the USA) on a cell phone gets routed similarly to how landlines work, based off a mapping on where that call comes from, a mapping the phone service providers made when establishing service in an area. If that call is wrapped up in VoIP then that gets into the problem of any other VoIP service today. With a static location like the crappy VoIP service I had from Mediacom the location was something entered in some database. If the set
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No, there still is not the matter of how this space-based connectivity would integrate. It's called Voice-over-IP and push notifications.
I think you're missing the point. The issue isn't the data protocol (ISO layers 3-7), it's the lower level RF layer (1 and 2). You need to sort out what radios to use, what frequencies they're on, the modulation, power, noise filtering, error correction, and the like. You also need to sort out how a voice session gets handed between different radios without glitches (which ought to be a solved problem by now but one never knows).
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Is there any reason in 2023 to have separate protocols for realtime unicast streaming compressed two-way audio instead of treating it like any other data stream on a network that features QoS prioritization?
Different latency requirements dictate different packet sizes. The telecom people look at a TCP/IP and say that the format is too heavy. Although today, people seem to be quite tolerant of 2 second communications delays. So maybe the old expectations of 10ms latency aren't important any more because it's already been blown to bits.
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Re:Who wrote this crap? (Score:5, Interesting)
That's actually exactly the way VoLTE (and VoNR) works. It's a SIP VoIP connection on a prioritized LTE or NR data session. There is a guaranteed bitrate, at the highest QoS priority (QCI 1) on the network. IMS also works this way, but at a lower QoS (QCI 5). Regular data sessions are not guaranteed bitrates, and are in the QCI 6-9 range. Often tethering is a separate data session at a lower QoS than regular phone data (for example, QCI 6 vs QCI 8).
how will free emergency calls work even with no si (Score:3)
how will free emergency calls work even with no sim right now they work.
Even blacklisted IMEI call make an emergency call.
Inside? (Score:4, Insightful)
Right, so how is this going to work when you are inside or underground etc? No signal is just a tad more complex than not being near a mobile phone mast.
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It won't work underground, however there are large areas on the country which have no cell reception. I can be in a dead zone in 15 minutes. The dead zone is eight whole miles from the county seat. Mountains are quite impervious to HF radio waves.
This problem could be avoided with VLF transmission, but the multi-hundred meter antenna needed on your phone might be a wee bit inconvenient.
Of all the places I've gone camping in the last decade only one had cell phone coverage. I view this as a feature, but if I
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If you're underground, why would you think there would be a cell signal? Is this a trick question I'm too intelligent to understand?
Reminds me of the people who go off into the wilderness and bitch they can't use their phone to navigate.
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> Is this a trick question I'm too intelligent to understand?
No, legit there are many people who think their phones works in the subway because the signal must be pretty strong.
It's like they can't even remember before the repeaters went in.
It's wild.
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I'm sure that will work great indoors.
I can recall being in a lecture hall that was deep in the basement of a large stone and brick structure to find that my cell phone could still receive phone calls. I then recalled how my phone and service provider had WiFi calling services. If there is WiFi access to the internet then your phone will likely work indoors like mine does. Presumably large population centers will still have terrestrial cellular service since satellites could be easily overwhelmed in such areas, as well as "micro-cells" in la
get ready to roam into an network with high costs (Score:2)
get ready to roam into an network with high costs while not crossing any borders.
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will there be an satellite roam as it's own setting?
and there may need to be an fcc rule that some software build can't do an easy button have have any roaming be only one on or off button.
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Now with new always on feature! (Score:1)
I'll try to translate the future message about this, "Congratulations we've completed our sat to phone service to ensure no one never has a no signal issue ever again! Don't worry, to make sure it stays connected, even when your device is off, it still connects. No battery in an emergency? Don't worry it has built in RFIDs that will report your location to the nearest phone that can communicate with the sat phone. It does provide better safety in case of a disaster to track where people might be (This is tr
Nerdy news: Sat radios are that small? (Score:2)
I haven't used or even seen a Starlink handset. I remember Iridium satellite handsets were pretty bulky (think "Gordon Gecko phone"). Have we really miniaturized the radios and antennas enough that a normal-sized phone can communicate with a satellite? How much power does this take (especially compared to terrestrial service)?
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How many years has it been? Now look up cell phones of the 1980s and 1990s to see the march of tech.
Five minutes, I can now report. It looks like Starlink base stations use an antenna which is about a quarter to a half meter square. Definitely not something which fits in a phone, not yet. Was there some other technology the FCC was thinking about?
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Yes, the iPhone 14 has it built it for example.
Nice but that wasn't exactly my question (although, proof by demonstration, it can be done).
This article [zdnet.com] gives an overview of what an iPhone can do. Yes, the antenna is built into the phone, something I didn't realize was possible. It's pretty limited for now but one can imagine that improving. I'm kind of curious how much power it uses versus a cell signal and what satellites it can use.
This is clearly on the technological cusp. It seems a good idea to start setting interoperability standards now, or at l
Apple proprietary shit (Score:2)
A propopsal to propose rules ... (Score:2)
Tracking (Score:2)
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