Want to read Slashdot from your mobile device? Point it at m.slashdot.org and keep reading!

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Cellphones Communications Power

A Text Alert May Have Saved California From Power Blackouts (bloomberg.com) 135

Posted by BeauHD from the emergency-alerts dept.
A timely mobile alert may have prevented hundreds of thousands of Californians from being plunged into darkness in the middle of a heat wave Tuesday night. Bloomberg reports: Just before 5:30 p.m. local time, California's grid operator ordered its highest level of emergency, warning that blackouts were imminent. Then, at 5:48 p.m., the state's Office of Emergency Services sent out a text alert to people in targeted counties, asking them to conserve power if they could. Within five minutes the grid emergency was all but over. Power demand plunged by 1.2 gigawatts between 5:50 and 5:55 p.m., and would continue to drop in the hours after that, according to data from the California Independent System Operator. A gigawatt is enough to power about 750,000 Californian homes.

But while the state's grid operator said California had avoided rolling blackouts Tuesday, some cities apparently didn't get the message. Officials in three San Francisco Bay area cities -- Alameda, Healdsburg and Palo Alto -- reported on social media that power shutdowns were underway that evening, which also could have contributed to the sharp decline in demand. By 8 p.m., the grid operator canceled the highest level of emergency without calling for power cuts. More than 500,000 homes and businesses had been warned earlier in the day that they might lose service.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

A Text Alert May Have Saved California From Power Blackouts More

A Text Alert May Have Saved California From Power Blackouts

Comments Filter:
  • Obligatory...

    • just need to change that 60hz to 88hz and then you will see some real shit and likely set off the San Andreas Fault

      • just need to change that 60hz to 88hz and then you will see some real shit

        No, the frequency of "the brown sound" is much lower, but still attainable.

        Just imagen: 50 million Californians taking a shit at the same time. All those corn chips and nuggets, all those SSRIs, all that meth, all at once into confluence after confluence until it finally merges into the specific ocean and the WSL holds the grand final amongst it. Surfing waves into the shore and catching brown tubes back out to the next set.

        I have seen the future and it is brown [youtube.com].

    • Looks like a distinct doctor just turned his flux capacitor off.

  • Normalizing deviance (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    This is a dangerous game continuously relying on alerts and bribes to keep from having to properly invest in energy infrastructure.

    • Re:Normalizing deviance (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Reiyuki ( 5800436 ) on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @09:38PM (#62861429)
      Came here to say that. Text messages did nothing to stop the problem. We'll be back here next year only the problem will be worse due to increasing demand.

      • Re:Normalizing deviance (Score:5, Insightful)

        by AleRunner ( 4556245 ) on Thursday September 08, 2022 @12:34AM (#62861875)

        Came here to say that. Text messages did nothing to stop the problem. We'll be back here next year only the problem will be worse due to increasing demand.

        Sending out begging text messages that ask for voluntary help can't be a solution very often. If they remember to say thanks and get the message out that this helped, though, and they don't use it more than about once a year on average, then there's actually nothing too much wrong with this as a part of a solution.
        Some of our very important power sources, like Nuclear power stations, just aren't designed for variable load and most solutions such as natural gas become much much less efficient if you do design them for rapidly varying load. (read up about peaking power plants [wikipedia.org]).

        Batteries and other storage are obviously great for this but capacity is very expensive. To allow a nuclear plant to safely run and adjust it's power to keep the storage really full you want to have days worth of power storage and in reality we currently can only afford hours worth at best. The cheapest storage (pumped hydro) is inherently limited in how much you can build. Grid batteries like Tesla's really help with stability minute by minute, giving you enough time to turn on other plants at best.

        Building much more flexible power sources like wind turbines which can just stop and start on demand and having many many of them standing idle, just waiting for a surge to arise would help this. When you do that, though, you get silly articles complaining about wind power being paid not to be used (yes, that's the whole point!!!) Solar which is also able to stop and start instantly can also be fine in a hot area where you know that the biggest peaks in usage will coincide with daytime heavy use of air conditioning. Connecting together a wide enough area that places are less likely to have the same problems at the same time would also really help. That means there should be one grid for he whole of the US, Canada and Mexico at least.

        Even if you did all that, though, you will never get close to building enough power for everyone to run everything they have at the same time. Especially with air conditioning keeping on increasing all the time. There just has to be some statistical calculation reducing the probability of a surge below, say, 0.1% a year. That means that finding a way for people to voluntarily switch off things that they don't need to run now - for example washing their clothes at night instead of during a hot afternoon - makes sense. Nobody seems to have found a way to make schemes to do that automatically popular yet, so if text messages work then why not?

        • BTW, don't want to take away from the idea that California's power situation is terrible. They have been blocking offshore wind for years [latimes.com] (article from 2018) failing to invest in transmisson [calmatters.org] and have a real problem with blocking of onshore wind [renewablee...gazine.com].

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by DarkOx ( 621550 )

          That is the thing this can be 'part of the solution' people don't mind 'helping out' in fact most of them even 'like' sacrificing to 'do their part' because for awhile it feels good to be a part of some collective action. However do it often and they get fatigued. Ask people sit in offices and schools at 80 degrees unproductively or the guy in the glass shop to shut down his klin to many times a summer and the internal dialog shifts to "well I need to use the power, others switch off this time" and nobody

          • Exactly. Unless there is a significant boost in infrastructure over the next 12 months the sacrifice next year will be bigger (and every year after).

        • Solar which is also able to stop and start instantly can also be fine in a hot area where you know that the biggest peaks in usage will coincide with daytime heavy use of air conditioning.

          The problem is that it only sort of coincides with peak usage. Peak solar is around 10-4. Highest daytime temps are usually around 2-7. So just as we are in the middle of our highest temperatures, our solar output drops off a cliff. That's why they are asking for conservation from 4pm-9pm. Something has to fill that gap or we will be right back here next year.

          so if text messages work then why not?

          It is a good, cheap temporary fix, but at some point we won't be able to turn off/down enough things to keep the power on. And if other states c

    • This is a dangerous game continuously relying on alerts and bribes to keep from having to properly invest in energy infrastructure.

      Yeah but at least you have the choice to ignore critical infrastructure & enjoy tax cuts. Freedom!

  • PG&E is hands down the worst power company I've ever used in my life (however briefly that may have been). No surprise there though.

    So where was Tesla's virtual power plant magic? Why couldn't this save the day? PG&E didn't want to pay the premium?

  • Before long they'll be touting simply not providing energy as a new form of alternative energy. It's certainly renewable!

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by JanSand ( 5746424 )
      Thus that far distant nightmare of global warming that none of the real powers have bothered to take very seriously suddenly is discovered growling and gnashing its teeth in the average living room readying itself to rip out everybody's throat with a vulnerable power supply might wake people up. When that huge glacier in Antarctica loses its grip on solidity at an unpredictable time so that Florida and New York discover that there are hungry sharks looking into kitchen windows, perhaps the world will begin

      • ... hungry sharks looking into kitchen windows

        So bring on the Apocalypse then? You must be Christian. Come down from that cross. We need the wood for fire.

  • The wrong lesson that will be learned (Score:5, Insightful)

    by RightwingNutjob ( 1302813 ) on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @09:19PM (#62861393)

    is that you can text/app/software your way out of decades of underinvestment and willful disinvestment in generating capacity.

    A properly functioning power grid does *not* need to wake people up at whenever in the morning to tell them to unplug their whatever, or else!

    A properly run place does not shut down nuclear power plants because homer simpson while at the same time banning gasoline engines and gas stoves because ghg emissions. Either you get rid of the nuclear plants with the understanding that you need energy generated by other means, or you mandate electrification of everything with the understanding that you need nuclear power to generate it for you sans emissions.

    California clearly has fundamentally innumerate people running the show, and a lot of smart people papering over the consequences of this idiocy with late-night heroics. That works until it doesn't.

    • Re:The wrong lesson that will be learned (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Jhon ( 241832 ) on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @09:39PM (#62861431) Homepage Journal

      "That works until it doesn't."

      You live here, too? CA is and has been run on the "musical chairs" principle. Between "term limits" causing folks to jump from office to office every 8-12 years, they aren't around when the "music stops" to take the blame when something they did goes south after they are in a new office.

      The argument for term limits was to get rid of career politicians and corruption. Turns out it, term limits effectively codified career politicians and corruption.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by k6mfw ( 1182893 )
        Term limits were created because opponents of Willie Brown couldn't use other means to get rid of him i.e. convince people to vote for someone else. It seemed the year when all these brownouts and rolling blackouts began is same year when all of California legislators were newbies. The experienced ones that knew all the workings and ramifications of decisions were all gone. Of course the same lobbyists and leg men that run the show in the background remained.
    • It might be time to stop expecting infinite energy to always be available on demand. Just a thought...

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Jhon ( 241832 )

        "It might be time to stop expecting infinite energy to always be available on demand"

        No body is expecting that. Expecting to maintain the grid without asking people not to charge their electric cars isn't unreasonable. Particularly when they expect (and plan to force) the number of EVs in California to sharply increase.

        It might be time to stop believing that we'll be able to handle that capacity so quickly without any realistic evidence this is even possible. Just a thought...

        • "It might be time to stop expecting infinite energy to always be available on demand"

          No body is expecting that.

          That's exactly what they're expecting. This is evidenced by the fact that people were able to shut off surplus energy demand and avoid blackouts.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Budenny ( 888916 )

            Think for a second about the logic of what you have said.

            You started out saying that people are expecting infinite energy to always be available on demand.

            The reply to this was that no-one expects infinite energy, they simply expect to be able to draw on normal amounts of it.

            To this you replied that the proof that they expect infinite supply was that they were able to turn some demand off.

            This proves nothing of the sort. It simply proves that they were willing and able to turn off some of their usage. It

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Jhon ( 241832 )

            " shut off surplus energy demand"

            It wasn't "surplus energy demand". By begging people, the CAISO were temporarily able to postpone some if that energy consumption until the evening. That's not a "surplus". And it's not "infinite energy" expectations. It's reasonable expectations. You don't manage your grid by begging people to not use power to avoid blackouts! You avoid blackouts by having the capacity to meet demand.

        • its about time they started to insulate the shit out of buildings to reduce drain on the grid for A/C or heating

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Jhon ( 241832 )

            They do this already on newer buildings. Some have larger buildings have "ice farms" which freeze at night and use the "ice" to run AC during the day.

      • I generate way more than I use with only 1/2 my crappy house covered. We need better storage options.

    • A properly functioning power grid does *not* need to wake people up at whenever in the morning to tell them to unplug their whatever, or else!

      The SMS text message alert went out at 5:48pm in the afternoon. Not the morning. Nobody got woken up. And the alert worked as intended. No blackouts and nobody was inconvenienced.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Nuclear plants wouldn't help with peaks like this. They can't ramp up and down fast enough to provide peaking capability. Wind turbines can, by feathering their blades. But in California's case it's most likely a question of ramping up gas plants.

      While they handled this event poorly, with a bit of effort it could be done well. That would reduce costs for everyone, and reduce emissions.

      • You have it backwards. Nuclear plants are not 'peak' plants, they provide base load. Our lone nuclear plant runs 100% 24/7 (2.2 GW). Even if tomorrow we magically had four more of these plants come online, they would all also run at 100% 24/7, and that would just eliminate our need for electricity imports from other states (6 to 9 GW, depending on time of day). It wouldn't even replace any of our existing in-state energy production.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by thomn8r ( 635504 )

      is that you can text/app/software your way out of decades of underinvestment and willful disinvestment in generating capacity.

      Most, if not all(?) power generation and distribution in California has been privatized; Cal ISO is sort of the "air traffic control" for it. Generation and transmission shortfalls fall squarely at the feet of the various power companies that chose to invest in dividends and bonuses instead of infrastructure.

  • "Officials in three San Francisco Bay area cities -- Alameda, Healdsburg and Palo Alto -- reported on social media that power shutdowns were underway that evening,"

    I'm sure that the EAS did get some people to turn off a few things. The outages helped too.

  • That in itself will cause a blackout with the outdated energy-guzzling mobile network in California.

  • National grid (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Tony Isaac ( 1301187 ) on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @10:01PM (#62861485) Homepage

    Maybe California should connect to the national grid, so they avoid the power issues that have plagued Texas in the last couple of years.

    Oh wait, they already are.

    • Texas has no problems, the news just hates Texas. Texas makes more power then california.

      Texas 22,560 megawatts
      California 19,413 megawatts

      Texas imports from mexico(when it is needed), california and the rest of the haters get their asses burned, when the try and deflect their own problem by mentioning texas. :)

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by dgatwood ( 11270 )

        Your numbers are very wrong. California has over 80,000 megawatts of generation capacity [ca.gov]. Texas has about 125,117 megawatts at last check.

        And yet you'll notice that with only two-thirds the generating capacity, California didn't have widespread power outages lasting multiple days despite hitting record high temperatures in large parts of the state, and consuming over 2 gigawatts more than the previous record.

        So I guess everything is bigger in Texas — bigger generating capacity, and bigger outages. :

        • So, even with your corrected numbers, Texas generates more power, though it has 10 million fewer people. Interesting.

          Texas has had zero rolling blackouts this summer, which featured record-breaking heat. Yes, the "big freeze" in 2021 was a fiasco, but not because the state didn't have enough generation capacity, but because a majority of that capacity was shut down. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by dgatwood ( 11270 )

            So, even with your corrected numbers, Texas generates more power, though it has 10 million fewer people. Interesting.

            Texas has had zero rolling blackouts this summer, which featured record-breaking heat. Yes, the "big freeze" in 2021 was a fiasco, but not because the state didn't have enough generation capacity, but because a majority of that capacity was shut down. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

            Shut down because of record-breaking cold, coupled with power plants that wouldn't have been allowed to be built in any state that properly regulates power producers. Yes.

            • So, even with your corrected numbers, Texas generates more power, though it has 10 million fewer people. Interesting.

              Texas has had zero rolling blackouts this summer, which featured record-breaking heat. Yes, the "big freeze" in 2021 was a fiasco, but not because the state didn't have enough generation capacity, but because a majority of that capacity was shut down. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

              Shut down because of record-breaking cold, coupled with power plants that wouldn't have been allowed to be built in any state that properly regulates power producers. Yes.

              So, let me get this straight. You actually think that a grid where brownouts/blackouts are an everyday occurrence is ummmm... somehow to be held as a "shining example of superiority" compared to a grid that's resilient enough that it took once-in-a-decade kind of adverse conditions for it to be taken out? Well, thank you for reminding me how fucking brainwashed you leftists are.

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by dgatwood ( 11270 )

                So, even with your corrected numbers, Texas generates more power, though it has 10 million fewer people. Interesting.

                Texas has had zero rolling blackouts this summer, which featured record-breaking heat. Yes, the "big freeze" in 2021 was a fiasco, but not because the state didn't have enough generation capacity, but because a majority of that capacity was shut down. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

                Shut down because of record-breaking cold, coupled with power plants that wouldn't have been allowed to be built in any state that properly regulates power producers. Yes.

                So, let me get this straight. You actually think that a grid where brownouts/blackouts are an everyday occurrence is ummmm... somehow to be held as a "shining example of superiority" ...

                Where in the U.S. do you think brownouts and blackouts are an "everyday occurrence"? It sure isn't California. They ask people to conserve when they think they might be at risk, and it has worked for the most part. There were no rolling blackouts from 2001 up until 2020.

                And the 2020 blackouts were relatively limited, and were done for a really good reason. They de-energized some high-tension lines through areas at high risk of fires to avoid arcing during high winds. Yes, it is downright criminal that

        • Your numbers are very wrong. California has over 80,000 megawatts of generation capacity [ca.gov].
          80,000 megawatts is 8,000 gigawatts,

        • California has over 80,000 megawatts (80 GW) of generation capacity

          Not really. Currently we have 56 GW of power generation available, (and about 6-10 of that is imports from other states). Installed generation is very different from available generation. For example, your link lists 12 GW of 'installed' hydro, but we are currently only getting about 1 - 2 GW of actual production.

          https://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/index.html

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by dgatwood ( 11270 )

      Maybe California should connect to the national grid, so they avoid the power issues that have plagued Texas in the last couple of years.

      Oh wait, they already are.

      One problem with California is that the local grid is a mess. During periods of high winds, the wildfire risk is too great, so they shut down a bunch of power lines to keep them from setting the whole state on fire. So now the total available grid capacity in some areas is grossly inadequate during the hottest weeks of the year.

      Add to that the fact that the entire western U.S. is hot at the same time, so being part of the national grid doesn't help much, because the whole western grid is struggling to pro

      • Texas has its own problems, to be sure, but it seems that its problems are less severe than California's.

        This summer has been record-breaking in Texas too, but there were never any rolling blackouts. Today's demand was about 67K MW. https://www.ercot.com/ [ercot.com] It's interesting that this is larger than your California number, considering that California has 10 million more people than Texas.

        Texas has the largest wind and solar generation capacity in the US. So despite its reputation as an oil state (which it is),

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by dgatwood ( 11270 )

          Today's demand was about 67K MW. https://www.ercot.com/ [ercot.com] It's interesting that this is larger than your California number, considering that California has 10 million more people than Texas.

          Probably because California's obscene residential power prices forced everybody to insulate their houses and upgrade their air conditioners decades ago.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by trparky ( 846769 )

        During periods of high winds, the wildfire risk is too great, so they shut down a bunch of power lines to keep them from setting the whole state on fire.

        So why don't they route the high-tension, high-voltage power lines through areas that don't have trees and other such plants under them?

        • My guess is (I don't like in CA, but I"ve followed their politics a bit) there isn't enough money to make that happen, and then you get the whole NIMBY crowd every time a plan is proposed to make changes to something.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by trparky ( 846769 )

            Oh yeah, I get it. They're the same crowd that object to having cell towers in their area but then later complain that they can't make a phone call on their cell phones. You can't have your cake and eat it too, folks.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by thomn8r ( 635504 )

          During periods of high winds, the wildfire risk is too great, so they shut down a bunch of power lines to keep them from setting the whole state on fire.

          So why don't they route the high-tension, high-voltage power lines through areas that don't have trees and other such plants under them?

          That's kinda like when you see the "Watch for Deer" signs in areas with a lot of deer/car collisions, and someone says "Why don't the deer just cross the road somewhere else?"

        • During periods of high winds, the wildfire risk is too great, so they shut down a bunch of power lines to keep them from setting the whole state on fire.

          So why don't they route the high-tension, high-voltage power lines through areas that don't have trees and other such plants under them?

          Don't you mean "So why don't they clear the routes under the high-tension, high-voltage power lines of trees and other such plants?"

          Oh wait...State regulators and Enviro-nuts probably block those efforts because some endangered animal that nobody has ever heard of lives in those areas.

        • There are dry fields, trees,etc.everywhere between a power plant and the end user. That is NOT a viable option.

      • Maybe California should connect to the national grid, so they avoid the power issues that have plagued Texas in the last couple of years.

        Oh wait, they already are.

        Worse, renewables aren't doing very well. As I post this, total grid demand is 44,215 megawatts, and only 3,631 megawatts (9%) are coming from renewables, presumably because of record shortfalls in hydroelectric power resulting from lack of rainfall.

        Sure that can be a problem, also the fact that the grid peak happened around sunset when solar power is reducing (so Tesla batteries were very useful) but the big problem is that the sources of stable wind power just haven't been built. Offshore farms have been blocked for years and the first one only just started last year and other farms could have been built much more so that there was real overcapacity. That grid connection mentioned was running just below 10GW which seems to be maximum practical level.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by dgatwood ( 11270 )

          Which grid connection are you talking about?

          • Which grid connection are you talking about?

            Path 46 seems to be the biggest one at 10.6 GW. Also I looked at the practical use of overall imports on the California Grid live data and scanned at random days over months and months I've only found a few brief instances when it slightly exceeds 10GW and never by much.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by dgatwood ( 11270 )

              Which grid connection are you talking about?

              Path 46 seems to be the biggest one at 10.6 GW. Also I looked at the practical use of overall imports on the California Grid live data and scanned at random days over months and months I've only found a few brief instances when it slightly exceeds 10GW and never by much.

              Ah, SoCal, California's biggest mistake. Let's put about fourteen million people in the middle of a desert and see what happens....

              I'm guessing they cap it at 10 GW to avoid another 2011 [wikipedia.org], where somebody screwed up and shut down a line and it blacked out all of southern California and parts of Mexico and Arizona. That's probably the limit where the failure of a single line wouldn't result in an overcurrent situation.

    • Maybe California should connect to the national grid, so they avoid the power issues that have plagued Texas in the last couple of years.

      Oh wait, they already are.

      You seem to think national grids are somehow magic rather than something that provides only a certain capacity before the wires start melting.

      • It's called sarcasm. Here in Texas, every time there is a problem with the grid, we hear this argument, "Texas should be part of the national grid, then we wouldn't have these problems!"

        If the wires are in danger of melting, that's a problem with under-building transmission lines.

        Texas has its share of grid problems, but it seems to me to be as stable as any grid in the country, if not more so.

  • Good, I'll just continue using my AC (Score:3)

    by ayesnymous ( 3665205 ) on Thursday September 08, 2022 @12:12AM (#62861803)
    knowing everyone else will power theirs down.

  • I am not saying the message was not useful, but it was a huge abuse of "severe risk to life and property" alerts. That is understood as a force of nature against which I can take specific measures to protect myself. In this case, severe risk to life and property from a 2 hour rolling outage was not likely for most people and individual action would do nothing to prevent such a blackout. I already turned my alerts off because of pandemic years health order / vaccine availability spam, so I didn't get this on

  • may have prevented hundreds of thousands of Californians from being plunged into darkness

    The warning was issued at 5:30 in early September. Does it really get dark in California at that time of day?
    File under: media hype.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by swilver ( 617741 )

      What do you mean? You have a basement with windows?

    • https://www.caiso.com/TodaysOu... [caiso.com]

      It looks like it was pretty much caused by the usual dip in power production by solar panels that happens every day due to the sun going down.

    • 'plunged into darkness' does not have to mean sunlight. Why does this even need to be explained?

      If you are in a bathroom with no window and the power goes out - you are in darkness. That scenario doesn't care what the sun is doing.

  • The next time, people will just thing that nothing happened last time and will not care. And then they will get a nice demonstration of what happens when you do not care...

  • It's your duty to ignore such alerts and to use whatever energy you see fit. It is their duty to see to it that they can provide the energy. If you perform your duty, and there are blackouts, it will become more obvious that they are not performing THEIR duty, and maybe we'll get rid of the religious fanatics running California.

  • To start, I'm not saying that Republicans are the answer, but the current condition of California rests solely on the problem of one-party rule for too long.

    For reasons that I can't comprehend, Democrats are forcing more and more DENSE housing construction at the local level, despite the fact that we are already the most populous state. Also, let's allow as much illegal immigration as possible so that we have even MORE people living in this state.

    This, despite the fact that more people means more water u

Slashdot Top Deals

"Plastic gun. Ingenious. More coffee, please." -- The Phantom comics

Close