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Apple Exec Says Samsung Copied iPhone and Simply 'Put a Bigger Screen Around It' (macrumors.com) 129

In a new documentary about the evolution of the iPhone, Apple's marketing chief Greg Joswiak was seen calling Samsung "annoying" and accusing them of poorly copying Apple's technology. "They were annoying," said Joswiak. "And they were annoying because, as you know, they ripped off our technology. They took the innovations that we had created and created a poor copy of it, and just put a bigger screen around it. So, yeah, we were none too pleased." MacRumors reports: Samsung launched the Galaxy S4 with a 5-inch display in early 2013, at a time when the iPhone 5 had a 4-inch display. Apple did eventually release its first larger smartphones with the 4.7-inch iPhone 6 and 5.5-inch iPhone 6 Plus in 2014, and the devices were met with strong demand and went on to be among the best-selling iPhone models ever.

Apple sued Samsung in 2011 for patent infringement, alleging that Samsung copied the iPhone's design with its own Galaxy line of smartphones. Apple was initially awarded around $1 billion in damages, but the amount was lowered in a subsequent retrial. In 2018, Apple finally settled with Samsung and reiterated the following statement: "We believe deeply in the value of design, and our teams work tirelessly to create innovative products that delight our customers. This case has always been about more than money. Apple ignited the smartphone revolution with iPhone and it is a fact that Samsung blatantly copied our design. It is important that we continue to protect the hard work and innovation of so many people at Apple. We're grateful to the jury for their service and pleased they agree that Samsung should pay for copying our products."
The full documentary can be watched on The Wall Street Journal's website.
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Apple Exec Says Samsung Copied iPhone and Simply 'Put a Bigger Screen Around It'

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  • Small Screens (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @08:44PM (#62658562)

    Like Apple never copied an idea before. Maybe Apple shouldn't have made phones with such fucking small screens? Just a thought.

    • by Z00L00K ( 682162 )

      To me there's no serious innovative design on phones anymore.

      Come back when the phone can induce the display directly to the optical nerve.

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • What you call a notch, is what others may call additional screen real-estate, that would otherwise be just a black bevel.

          I am sorry, little quarks on cellphones really don't get me that excited anymore. Unless you are into photography, there isn't any really good reason to get a new smartphone. Where I think they should be called Smart Camera's with a Cell phone feature.

    • Re:Small Screens (Score:5, Informative)

      by AleRunner ( 4556245 ) on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @10:33PM (#62658696)

      Specifically the design aspects that Apple complained about - rounded rectangle, bezeled, phone with large square touch screen and minimal buttons were first put out in the LG Prada phone [androidauthority.com] and had in turn been copied from elsewhere. Copying is normal, everyone does it and most improvement comes from evolutionary improvement between competitors trying to match each other. The things that made the Prada a broken phone (lack of on-screen keyboard) were things that already existed in other systems which apple copied and then Samsung part copied from them. Apple wants special privileges for their specific set of design elements just because the iPhone arrived at the moment that things clicked sufficiently for consumers to actually start buying. Sure, they put in a bunch of effort to get things right but LG put in effort too. We aren't handing out participation prizes.

      • by mjwx ( 966435 )

        Specifically the design aspects that Apple complained about - rounded rectangle, bezeled, phone with large square touch screen and minimal buttons were first put out in the LG Prada phone [androidauthority.com] and had in turn been copied from elsewhere. Copying is normal, everyone does it and most improvement comes from evolutionary improvement between competitors trying to match each other. The things that made the Prada a broken phone (lack of on-screen keyboard) were things that already existed in other systems which apple copied and then Samsung part copied from them. Apple wants special privileges for their specific set of design elements just because the iPhone arrived at the moment that things clicked sufficiently for consumers to actually start buying. Sure, they put in a bunch of effort to get things right but LG put in effort too. We aren't handing out participation prizes.

        This is why a lot of design elements need to be treated as generic, like rounded corners, square buttons, et al.

        Imagine if someone patented the milk bottle (either US style glass ones or UK style plastic ones)... Everyone would either have to pay royalties or go to the expense of developing their own bottle shapes unique enough not to infringe it which would be pretty hard if the patent is "a square or cylindrical container, taller than it is wider or thicker narrowing to a spout at the top used to hold

      • by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

        Specifically the design aspects that Apple complained about - rounded rectangle, bezeled, phone with large square touch screen and minimal buttons were first put out in the LG Prada phone and had in turn been copied from elsewhere. Copying is normal, everyone does it and most improvement comes from evolutionary improvement between competitors trying to match each other. The things that made the Prada a broken phone (lack of on-screen keyboard) were things that already existed in other systems which apple co

        • The LG Prada phone didn't have a touchscreen and thus did not meet all the aspects of the design.

          What? [androidauthority.com]

          So... you were saying?

          • by shmlco ( 594907 )

            First line of the article, "There’s no question that the iPhone radically changed the smartphone industry. Decades from now, there will be two eras of mobile technology: pre-iPhone and post-iPhone."

            Parent was incorrect that the Prada didn't have a touchscreen. It did. They just didn't use it to it's best advantage. Heck, they barely used it at all. No multi-touch. No software keyboard. (I mean, T9?) A "mobile" browser instead of full HTML support. I could go on, but just read your own article.

            Last lin

    • Re:Small Screens (Score:5, Informative)

      by sg_oneill ( 159032 ) on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @10:48PM (#62658722)

      Looking in retrospect, sure.

      But at the time, when the iphone came out, it was pretty much the biggest screen out there.

      Of course Apple where tardy getting bigger screens because Steve Jobs was adamant that the thumb rule must apply (If you can hold the phone in your palm, you must be able to wrap your thumb around the full width of the screen for ergonomics. It actually make a lot of sense, but ultimately the customer had a clear preference for bigger screens especially for folks like me with trashy eyesight).

      • by nojayuk ( 567177 )

        ultimately the customer had a clear preference for bigger screens especially for folks like me with trashy eyesight).

        I think that the younger people (under 40 years of age) at Apple never considered that everyone, including much older people would want to buy a smartphone with a screen-only interface, so they thought that a small display (sub-10cm) was fine. Myself I use a Samsung phone with a 14cm diagonal display and I still have to squint or take my glasses off to read stuff on it sometimes because my ey

    • What I think is interesting is that he doesn't seem to acknowledge how much they ripped off Android.

      Apple actually had that Xerox mentality. Steve Jobs said nobody wanted larger screens or multitasking. If somebody sent you a text, it just stopped whatever the hell you were doing, tough shit.

      What does he have to say about ripping off the notification shade from Android to fix that? Google has the patent for it, after all, but unlike Apple they typically don't sue anybody for patent infringement.

      • by Chas ( 5144 )

        Jobs-Speak: "Nobody wants."

        English: `We have badly misread the market...

  • It's all been done (Score:4, Insightful)

    by The1stImmortal ( 1990110 ) on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @08:45PM (#62658564)
    And Apple put a facelift and a marketing campaign on what Palm, Blackberry and Microsoft's OEMs were doing before the iPhone. Capacitive smartphones/cellular PDAs were a thing prior to the iPhone, just didn't have mass market adoption.
    Truly novel inventions are incredibly rare, basically everything is built upon prior work in one way or another.
    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      The "black slate, all screen" look was done by Samsung a few years before the iPhone in the form of a digital photo frame. LG did the first all-touch phone, which had slide-to-unlock that Apple later tried to sue Samsung for "copying".

      Many of Apple's most iconic designs are clearly just ripped off from Braun. There was a book of Braun designs that someone at Apple must have owned because it had photos of all the things they copied.

      https://www.cultofmac.com/1887... [cultofmac.com]

      • The "black slate, all screen" look was done by Samsung a few years before the iPhone in the form of a digital photo frame. LG did the first all-touch phone,

        I think that honour probably goes to IBM for a spirited attempt in 1994:

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

        It's not quite a slate due to tech limitations for speakers at the time, but it's as close as you could get with 1994 era tech. Unlike the LG prada, it even had an on-screen qwerty keyboard instead of T9 which didn't exist then anyway.

        Oh also, unlike

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Thanks, that IBM one is new to me. Interesting device, but probably way ahead of its time. Well, there were a lot of pocket computers in Japan, and I think Tandy re-badged some Sharp ones for the US market. Clearly there was a niche, but I guess being IBM it was tied to IBM services and of little interest to tech enthusiasts.

          • but I guess being IBM it was tied to IBM services and of little interest to tech enthusiasts.

            Not clear that it was: it ran a DOS clone and could do email at a glorious 2400 baud and fax apparently (doesn't sound like it needed IBM services), and had standard peripherals (PCMCIA, RS232 and a standard modem) and so on. It looks like it was just a bit ahead its time, really.

    • This. The iPhone was just one of these with newer hardware, a better screen and shitty software:

      http://www.pencomputing.com/pa... [pencomputing.com]

  • Hey Apple Xerox PARC is calling
    https://appleinsider.com/artic... [appleinsider.com]

    It really takes nerve for an Apple exec to whine about being copied.

    • Er... (Score:5, Informative)

      by JBMcB ( 73720 ) on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @11:04PM (#62658738)

      The article you posted says that Xerox invited Apple to mass-market their GUI. Apple didn't invite Samsung to copy their phone.

      Xerox later sued Apple for "misrepresenting their copyright" and lost.

      • The point is Apple makes money off other people's ideas then refuses to contribute anything back while thinking that they should have an eternal monopoly on ideas like touchscreen phones and multi-touch. Even if they did invent a great touchscreen GUI it is ridiculous that they expect a monopoly over it when it is something others would have eventually gotten to within a decade or two maximum. This is ignoring the fact that the LG Prada came out months before the iPhone.

      • Re:Er... (Score:5, Informative)

        by backslashdot ( 95548 ) on Wednesday June 29, 2022 @02:19AM (#62658882)

        And by the way, they copied so many things from Nokia and myOrigo (a Finnish touchscreen phone maker --which had a swipe gesture UI back in 2003). Even their browser window switcher is a slavish copy of Nokia's. Apple did innovate in that they made a usable touchscreen keyboard, (relatively) large display, and finger swipe gestures, pinch to zoom (most of which had already been invented by others for non-phone UIs). They downplay all the previous cell phone inventions the iPhone was built on.
        References:
        myorigo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
        nokia: https://maddox.xmission.com/c.... [xmission.com]

      • Well Apple may have had better lawyers but there is no way you can look at the smalltalk system from PARC and not see the Lisa and original Mac were little better than copies.

    • by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      Hey Apple Xerox PARC is calling
      https://appleinsider.com/artic [appleinsider.com]...

      It really takes nerve for an Apple exec to whine about being copied.

      Except for the opportunity to poke around, Apple gave Xerox about $1M in options - about 100,000 shares. Xerox would later cash it in for about $16M.

      Apple didn't take anything - they paid for their visit to Xerox. Xerox cashed in their shares as soon as they could because they weren't investors, but they still made a good chunk of money from it.

      In fact, all they got from Xerox

      • Actually no. Apple lost because Microsoft in that Microsoft kind of way bluffed Apple with stopping all office development on the Mac. Jobs caved and the rest was history.

    • by shmlco ( 594907 )

      You realize that in return for that visit Apple gave Xerox the opportunity to buy 100,000 shares of pre-IPO stock for $1 million.

      Xerox wasn't given what amounted to $16 million for a visit the cafeteria, they knew what they were doing, and made a deal.

  • Let's see - they had the gall to patent a rectangle with curved corners, they turned a blind eye to the suicide-inducing hell experienced by employees of their contract manufacturers, and they're one of the biggest, most powerful companies in the world. So excuse me if I find it really difficult to summon a tear for poor Apple and their butt-hurt over Samsung imitating their precious designs.

    Anybody at Apple who feels hard-done-by on behalf of their sacred company needs a fucking enormous reality check.

  • A design patent on fucking rounded corners.

    • Not only that but in the design patent for rounded corners they cite the HP/Compaq TC1100 which is... a near featureless slab with rounded corners.

  • by Lije Baley ( 88936 ) on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @09:03PM (#62658590)

    They didn't copy any of Apple's crappy UI. They made their own crappy UI.

  • by bill_mcgonigle ( 4333 ) * on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @09:14PM (#62658602) Homepage Journal

    The case study in The Innovator's Solution [amzn.to] was all the problems with the Blackberry business model. They described the iPhone ecosystem very closely and Steve Jobs just ripped that off* and implemented it.

    Apple isn't worth Trillions today because of hardware build quality or rounded corners - it's the business model.

    Who remembers being at WWDC and hearing that apps are lame and HTML/JS/CSS were the future? That was a lie because iPhone wasn't ready. Read the book to learn more.

    * Great Artists Steal

    • The business model they got from Google.

    • by narcc ( 412956 ) on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @11:06PM (#62658748) Journal

      Who remembers being at WWDC and hearing that apps are lame and HTML/JS/CSS were the future?

      I think most of us do. That's the one part they got right. It's a shame they technology just wasn't quite ready for that vision in 2008. It's not like it wasn't close though. You could do some impressive stuff on even the cheapest of the FireFoxOS phones. WebOS before that was incredibly slick, even on the garbage hardware that was the Palm Pre. Modern UIs still look primitive in comparison.

      Also, it might not have been a lie initially. Apple even pushed for important new standards to web that made it more viable as an application platform. Remember that BlackBerry was a juggernaut and they were in no way guaranteed success in that market. RIM actually outsold Apple into 2013, years after they were declared "dead" by the tech press. Open standards were a good thing for Apple. They're a good thing for any underdog.

      Apple just that they realized they could make a shit ton of money being the exclusive distributor of apps for their platform. They took that gamble and it paid off. Unfortunately, developers didn't realize that they were only hurting themselves by embracing the proprietary over the open. That 30% cut and impossible fight for visibility in a crowded marketplace has to sting knowing what could have been.

      I should point out that it's not web technology that I'm sad about losing here. It's the idea of a standard platform that developers can use to make apps that are platform independent. I expect we'd have seen a lot more competition in the mobile OS marketplace, and that's good for everybody. There's a reason that Apple refuses to allow other browsers on the platform, and why they're actively holding back the web [wccftech.com]. PWAs, crippled as they are, are a threat that they take very seriously.

    • by dgatwood ( 11270 )

      Who remembers being at WWDC and hearing that apps are lame and HTML/JS/CSS were the future? That was a lie because iPhone wasn't ready.

      There was some speculation that it might have been because the APIs weren't polished enough, but that theory has always seemed implausible to me. After all, why not just say, "We expect to have a public API for writing apps in the future, and we will make it available as soon as we are confident that it is polished enough to guarantee binary compatibility going forwards"? Pretty much every developer would have understood that explanation, and would have been okay with it.

      But no, as I understand it, it was

  • Reference: https://hardware.slashdot.org/... [slashdot.org]

    See above. My point is that myself, and others, on slashdot, had been asking why the fuck there was no large touchscreen phone for years before the iPhone came out.

    Still I do like to take faux-credit for giving Steve Jobs the idea .. for troll purposes if these idiots keep suing each other.

    • by narcc ( 412956 )

      Don't overlook fashion. Old BlackBerry phones were large enough that my friends made fun of my 7290. (They were also somewhat unimpressed with the fact that I had access to much of the web in my pocket. How times have changed.)

      There was even a movie, Zoolander?, that poked fun at the rapidly shrinking size of cellphones. The gag was the protagonist making a call on an impractically small cellphone. While not nearly that tiny, my Sony J300a was ridiculously small compared to every other phone I've owned,

  • If Samsung made a poor copy, then just make sure the iPhone is a better product.
  • by JeffOwl ( 2858633 ) on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @10:20PM (#62658678)
    "Good artists copy. Great artists steal. We have always been shameless about stealing great ideas."
  • by reanjr ( 588767 ) on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @10:23PM (#62658682) Homepage

    IPhone didn't even have an app store before Android showed Apple how to do it. Apple also stole tethering from Android. And widgets. Oh, and the app drawer they stole from Android too. Notification badges. The keyboard.

    Almost everything that's not an Apple subscription service was designed by the Android team.

    Apple, step up your game and design something besides a bevel.

    • by narcc ( 412956 )

      You forget that Android was a straight-up BlackBerry clone, and not a terribly good one. RIM pioneered most of that stuff.

    • IPhone didn't even have an app store before Android showed Apple how to do it.

      Heck cydia implemented an app store on jailbroken iPhones before Apple managed to come around to the idea of an app store. Cydia of course didn't claim they invented it either since they used APT which dates from 1998.

  • by AcidFnTonic ( 791034 ) on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @10:24PM (#62658686) Homepage

    Copied BSD with a better interface, says the people from the bsd project.

    There, anyone can say that.

  • by youngone ( 975102 ) on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @10:41PM (#62658708)

    ...a new documentary about the evolution of the iPhone...

    The full documentary can be watched on The Wall Street Journal's website.

    A commercial. Or an advertisement if you'd rather.

  • by Archtech ( 159117 ) on Wednesday June 29, 2022 @01:20AM (#62658846)

    "Apple's marketing chief Greg Joswiak [complained], "They took the innovations that we had created..."

    "Marketing"? "Created"?

    • Marketing guys live on a different planet from the rest of us. They'd sell out their grandmothers if there was a buck involved and they needed it. I've worked in the Auto Dealer/Sales CRM business for a while as a contractor, trust me they're sleezyAF.


  • Ever since Apple invented the wheel and rounded corners everyone has been copying them.

    It's heartbreaking that Apple's genius has been mercilessly plagiarised and the resulting theft has left them penniless.

    Please if you see an Apple employee give them a hug. They were so wronged.
  • Lunacy. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by HermMunster ( 972336 ) on Wednesday June 29, 2022 @02:56AM (#62658906)

    The only distinguishing featured of the Apple iPhone is the OS, which Samsung can't copy and reproduce. Google decides the features and future of Android.

    The other benefit of Apple is hardware. Apple has better battery life. In my opinion little else. Maybe the APU. That's neither here nor there, as most use specific known suppliers.

    It has a walled garden. Android doesn't have that. Thank goodness for that.

    If they can increase their screen size and work to improve their battery lfe they've literally been competing.

  • It's obvious Samsung ripped off Apple. But Apple have unclean hands themselves blatantly ripping off the look & feel of software they want to expropriate (e.g. Dashboard ripped off Konfabulator) and iOS & Android have been lifting functions from each other since they existed.

    So yeah a little hypocrisy here.

  • by Gabest ( 852807 ) on Wednesday June 29, 2022 @05:38AM (#62659052)

    For spreading stupid design choices to others. Now there is no phone I would even consider buying. Those I have will be buried with me.

    • by JustNiz ( 692889 )

      I totally agree. Over the years there have been a series of decisions to remove useful and common sense features that all phones used to have as standard. These decisions are clearly intended to benefit the phone makers at the cost the interest of the actual owners, and even the environment.

      In my opinion, the most serious are:
      eliminating user-replaceable batteries, (effectively forcing everyone to have to buy a whole new phone every 3 years).
      Eliminating the 3.5mm jack, effectively froving people to have to

  • Hilarious (Score:4, Insightful)

    by JustAnotherOldGuy ( 4145623 ) on Wednesday June 29, 2022 @08:17AM (#62659224) Journal

    Like Apple never copied a feature?

    Bitch, please. It's like Milli Vanilli complaining that other performers lip-sync.

  • It lacks the ability of not allowing you to sideload applications or using sane ways to transfer files.

  • I know this is verging on a non-sequitor, but the first smart phone I tried to give my mother was a Samsung android phone... might have been an S? I don't quite recall. It was in 2011 or thereabouts. About six month later, I gave her an ipad, and shortly thereafter an iPhone. Immediate success. To this day she happily uses newer versions of both.

    Was the Samsung device a "poorer copy"? Regardless of whether Apple, too, is a copycat, I can't argue against this. At the time, it was a shittier experience across

  • Android is a copy of iOS, arguably a poor copy as well. Interestingly, the Mac user-experience is a copy of Xerox/PARC's concepts but done better. Windows is a copy of the Mac but done way worse. Apple didn't invent the MP3 player but everybody wanted an iPod and everything else was crap. Phones had some "smarts" but the iPhone changed everything and killed the Blackberry. SpaceX didn't invent rocketry or satellite delivery but they're kicking ass while everyone else is a publicity stunt. Point being

  • by EvilSS ( 557649 ) on Wednesday June 29, 2022 @10:26AM (#62659632)
    It's pretty well known Samsung copies Apple. They copied the iPhone form-factor, features, removing the headphone jack, removing the charger from the box...
  • I found a dead horse!

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