After US Sanctions, Huawei Revenue Plummets Nearly 30% In 2021 (theguardian.com) 53
"Chinese telecom giant Huawei said on Friday its annual revenue had fallen by nearly a third from the previous year," reports Agence France-Presse, "as it continued to be weighed down by U.S. sanctions that have hit its smartphone sales..."
The firm's revenue for this year fell by 29% year-on-year to 634 billion yuan ($99.5 billion), said rotating chairman Guo Ping in an annual new year message... Huawei's revenue has fallen in 2021 due in part to the offloading of its budget phone brand Honor, which was sold [in late 2020]...
Huawei's travails have forced it to quickly pivot into new business lines including enterprise computing, wearables and health tech, technology for intelligent vehicles, and software. The United States has barred Huawei from acquiring crucial components such as microchips and forced it to create its own operating system by cutting it off from using Google's Android operating system...
The group is the world's biggest supplier of telecoms network gear and was once a top-three smartphone producer along with Apple and Samsung. But it has fallen well down the smartphone ranks owing to US pressure.
In October, the group said its January-September sales volume had fallen 32%.
Huawei's travails have forced it to quickly pivot into new business lines including enterprise computing, wearables and health tech, technology for intelligent vehicles, and software. The United States has barred Huawei from acquiring crucial components such as microchips and forced it to create its own operating system by cutting it off from using Google's Android operating system...
The group is the world's biggest supplier of telecoms network gear and was once a top-three smartphone producer along with Apple and Samsung. But it has fallen well down the smartphone ranks owing to US pressure.
In October, the group said its January-September sales volume had fallen 32%.
No wonder they're pissed at us (Score:4, Interesting)
I hadn't realized that U.S. sanctions hit Chinese companies that hard. I can see why they are pushing on every border.
Has there been hard evidence of Huawei's products being security compromised or is this all on speculative suspicion?
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Can't compete with IP thieves.
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Re: No wonder they're pissed at us (Score:5, Insightful)
Not 'no evidence.'
Every Chinese company is required, under Chinese National Intelligence Law, "obliges individuals, organizations, and institutions to assist Public Security and State Security officials in carrying out a wide array of “intelligence” work. "
Article Seven stipulates that “any organization or citizen shall support, assist, and cooperate with state intelligence work according to law.”
Article 14, in turn, grants intelligence agencies authority to insist on this support: “state intelligence work organs, when legally carrying forth intelligence work, may demand that concerned organs, organizations, or citizens provide needed support, assistance, and cooperation.”
Organizations and citizens must also protect the secrecy of “any state intelligence work secrets of which they are aware.”
Plenty of evidence. If you are Chinese or a Chinese company, you work for the Government.
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If you are a citizen of $COUNTRY, a resident of $COUNTRY or a company operating in $COUNTRY then you work for the government of $COUNTRY.
This applies to every country. Pretty much every country on the planet has national security laws which can compel any entity within its borders to comply with government demands and inflict punishments on them should they speak about it or refuse to comply.
That's why China and Russia are busy developing their own technology for their own internal use, rather than relying
Re: No wonder they're pissed at us (Score:5, Informative)
If you are a citizen of $COUNTRY, a resident of $COUNTRY or a company operating in $COUNTRY then you work for the government of $COUNTRY.
This applies to every country. Pretty much every country on the planet has national security laws which can compel any entity within its borders to comply with government demands and inflict punishments on them should they speak about it or refuse to comply.
This is simply not true. Otherwise please provide documentation that for example western European countries in the EU have such legislation in place.
The specifics of legislation does matter. China has legislation that gives the government much more power over Chinese companies than is the case in most other countries.
Re: No wonder they're pissed at us (Score:3, Informative)
FISA act, CLOUD act for a beginning - considering all market leading tech companies are from the US, all of your data is being shared with them.
Also, my former European employer Nokia had to give access to their whole source code, as well as their root certificates to the US gvmt, something the Chinese refused to do and good banned from the us telecoms infrastructure market.
And finally, not cooperating with your European $COUNTRY is not an option, add most countries have a security apparatus in place which
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FISA act, CLOUD act for a beginning - considering all market leading tech companies are from the US, all of your data is being shared with them.
Also, my former European employer Nokia had to give access to their whole source code, as well as their root certificates to the US gvmt, something the Chinese refused to do and good banned from the us telecoms infrastructure market.
And finally, not cooperating with your European $COUNTRY is not an option, add most countries have a security apparatus in place which takes legitimation from"protecting" the constitution ( something we call "secret police" in countries we don't like) ie Verfassungsschutz in Germany, DST France, Security Service/MI5 UK,....
USA is not "pretty much every country on the planet". Most European countries have strict restrictions on and comprehensive oversight of their domestic intelligence services. The German Verfassungsschutz that you mention is a good example. They have no police authorities. They do get some information from German companies. But that is strictly regulated by law and limited to very specific types of information (so, citizens already know what information is being collected). See https://www.bmi.bund.de/EN/top [bmi.bund.de]
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FISA act, CLOUD act for a beginning - considering all market leading tech companies are from the US, all of your data is being shared with them.
Also, my former European employer Nokia had to give access to their whole source code, as well as their root certificates to the US gvmt, something the Chinese refused to do and good banned from the us telecoms infrastructure market.
And finally, not cooperating with your European $COUNTRY is not an option, add most countries have a security apparatus in place which takes legitimation from"protecting" the constitution ( something we call "secret police" in countries we don't like) ie Verfassungsschutz in Germany, DST France, Security Service/MI5 UK,....
USA is not "pretty much every country on the planet". Most European countries have strict restrictions on and comprehensive oversight of their domestic intelligence services. The German Verfassungsschutz that you mention is a good example. They have no police authorities. They do get some information from German companies. But that is strictly regulated by law and limited to very specific types of information (so, citizens already know what information is being collected). See https://www.bmi.bund.de/EN/top... [bmi.bund.de] for more details.
Yes, but the USA spies on all of Western Europe in ways China can only dream of. Some of the reasons the US is so 'concerned' about Huawei gaining a foothold in the western market with telco equipment is because (A) the US knows exactly what kind of espionage opportunities that offers because they are already using the US tech industry's export products as a tool to do that kind of spying and (B) every bit of Huawei equipment taken into use represents an intelligence gathering opportunity in other countries
Re: No wonder they're pissed at us (Score:5, Informative)
In the UK we have the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (RIPA), which allows organizations as low as police forces and prison services to force disclosure of communication data from any company holding it. Those organizations are allowed to self-regulate, so for example the police rubber stamp hundreds of thousands of communication data requests a year.
All the big UK ISPs have set up automated systems for the police to use, because the volume of requests is too high to be handled manually. Legally ISPs are required to log DNS lookups, and make available any other data they capture via DPI etc.
RIPA also criminalizes failure to disclose your password on request, and places the burden of proof for any defence (e.g. forgot it) on the defendant.
The government has repeatedly threatened to band end-to-end encryption too. The fact that it hasn't done so is likely due to either GCHQ finding ways to crack the encryption, or the companies providing encrypted apps cooperating with them.
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Re: No wonder they're pissed at us (Score:1)
Re: No wonder they're pissed at us (Score:3)
Re: No wonder they're pissed at us (Score:3, Insightful)
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Either provide credible docs or stfu.
There have been plenty of credible accusations against them with reasonble amounts of evidence backing it up. For example Australia was attacked by China via Huawei equipment [news.com.au] and Poland has had more than enough evidence of spying to start an actual spy trial [reuters.com]
Not enough for you? Oh, you want the full details of software and logs. So basically you expect the Australians to release the some of the exact information Huawei was likely spying to find out. What a surprise that the person defending the CCP also
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Absent some
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Huawei is the only major network gear company that will allow customers to inspect its source code too (under NDA of course). The security stuff is mostly just BS, especially when you look at how many CVEs their rivals get.
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Which is ironic given how much Huawei stole from other networking companies. You'd think Europe might want to defend its own corporations(read: Nokia), but apparently they don't give a shit in that regard.
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Huawei did the R&D and now has many of the key 5G patents. Their 5G products are a few years ahead of everyone else, because they were able to start developing them much earlier. None of that is stolen, it is technology that Huawei invented.
That's why Huawei was targeted. Everyone else in the market is years behind them, and has to licence Huawei patents to sell 5G hardware. European, Japanese, Korean and US companies have been out-competed by Huawei, so instead of stepping up their game they whined to
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None of that is stolen, it is technology that Huawei invented.
Maybe. However, Huawei is known to have based its rise to importance on stolen technology [bloomberg.com], so even if none of the 5G tech is stolen (which is doubtful) they still would never have gotten there without stealing technology.
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You should look into the Nortel claims carefully. What it boils down to is a Huawei employee included some header files that belonged to Norton in some of their code. The headers in question were from the Nortel SDK, and Huawei was implementing compatibility.
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They stole a lot more than some header files.
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Is there evidence to support that?
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The economic hit was always the objective and the security issues are largely minor, speculative, or features we do not like just because China (e.g. many routers may phone home but a Chinese router doing it is "worse"). This hit is relatively expected but the outcome is the part that's going to really hurt the US. For one this kind of warfare cannot last. Companies will simply do less to invest in America and less to rely on supply chains involving America. Two-fold, China will find other markets to fill t
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Not onlynthe US sanctions (Score:2)
I happily bought Huawei before - hardware OK-ish, somewhat of an acceptable after-market support by OpenKirin. Never cared much for the PlayStore anyway, if it's not on FDroid, I'm not using it.
But recent Huaweis cannot be easily unlocked anymore for aftermarket OSes. And the original OS became even more privacy invasive.
So....yeah. Bought a pixel and installed GrapheneOS instead.
Rotating chairman Guo Ping (Score:2)
This will hurt the US bad (Score:2, Informative)
Here's what will happen (actually, what IS happening):
The US will force Huawei to become more resilient, more versatile, and taught them a valuable lesson they won't forget anytime soon on not trusting their suppliers.
It's is the business equivalent of forcing relatively benign bacteria to mutate and become harder to kill by trying to destroy them with too much antibiotics.
Re: This will hurt the US bad (Score:3)
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Huawei is just the nortel of China.
That's a great comparison because Huawei was built on information stolen from Nortel. Huawei is to Nortel as China is to any country that actually develops its own technology.
Re:This will hurt the US bad (Score:5, Informative)
Here's what actually happened: China's attack on Nortel [globalnews.ca], of which Huawei was the primary corporate beneficiary, taught the rest of the world a lesson. Now China is crying about how we're employing that knowledge in order to try to divert attention away from the fact that sanctions against Huawei are well-earned.
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The US will force Huawei to become more resilient, more versatile, and taught them a valuable lesson they won't forget anytime soon on not trusting their suppliers
What lesson can be learned that China has not spent the last few decades trying to correct? China built many chip companies in last several decades. but by accounts, China is still decades behind the world [brookings.edu] in some aspects.
Chinese players remain decades behind in some of the most important manufacturing technology areas, such as lithography and the most advanced software design tools.
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Even if the jobs came back to the US, why do you think they would be unionized? Also, remember that many companies left because of the insane amounts of toxic pollution created by manufacturing. Are you thinking the US will ignore that? Might under republicans but under democrats these companies would have to pay huge amounts to mitigate these toxic by-products.
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Are you thinking the US will ignore that? Might under republicans
...who will almost certainly win the next election because Biden isn't keeping his promises to his base. There's no chance most Biden voters will vote for a Republican, but there's a good one that they'll be disillusioned and stay home.
So, basically (Score:4, Interesting)
Setting aside whether they're justified or unjustified - the sanctions actually worked as intended.
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No. They'll just sell their equipment to African shit holes who seems to *love* everything Chinese or from China.
Those places are shit holes because China and the West alike have been shitting on them. We've been fighting our proxy economic wars (and some real ones) there for decades. Nobody else but China wants to give them terms they can afford in the short term, on the premise that they will never be stable enough to realize a satisfactory return on investment... which is true as long as we're treating Africa like a cat box.
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Setting aside whether they're justified or unjustified - the sanctions actually worked as intended.
I don't think so.
The sanctions may have hurt Huawei as intended, but every other Asian organization is now looking for independence of any supplier that the US has control over. This means that in the long term more and more Asian organizations will depend on each other for supplies instead of using American suppliers. This can cost the US a lot more than the temporary harm on Huawei.
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Play stupid games... (Score:2)
Win stupid prizes. Had they built sane products and were totally transparent about what was in them, this wouldn't be an issue.