Want to read Slashdot from your mobile device? Point it at m.slashdot.org and keep reading!

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Iphone Apple

Apple Says Motorcycle Vibrations Can Damage IPhone Cameras (engadget.com) 132

Long-time Slashdot reader fahrbot-bot quotes Engadget: Hold off on purchasing that iPhone mount for your motorbike.

In a new Apple Support post first seen by MacRumors, the tech giant has warned that high amplitude vibrations, "specifically those generated by high-power motorcycle engines" transmitted through handlebars, can damage its phones' cameras.

As the publication notes, that damage can be permanent. A simple Google search will surface posts over the past few years by users whose cameras were ruined after they mounted their iPhone on their bike, mostly so they can use it for navigation.

MacRumors summarizes another Apple recommendation: for slower vehicles like mopeds and scooters "at least use a vibration-dampening mount to minimize the chances of any damage."

Engadget's suggestion? "Just use another GPS device to make sure you don't ruin a device that costs hundreds to over a thousand dollars."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Apple Says Motorcycle Vibrations Can Damage IPhone Cameras

Comments Filter:
  • by bugs2squash ( 1132591 ) on Sunday September 12, 2021 @05:20PM (#61789369)
    or playing video games, or holding hands before marriage, or using curse words, or skipping sunday service. All of these will ruin your iphone kids.
  • use something other than Apple? I am sure apples response will be "It's not a fault, you're riding the wrong bike"
    • by dgatwood ( 11270 )

      use something other than Apple? I am sure apples response will be "It's not a fault, you're riding the wrong bike"

      "You're mounting it wrong."

      —Apple

      • Re:easier solution (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Freischutz ( 4776131 ) on Sunday September 12, 2021 @05:53PM (#61789487)

        use something other than Apple? I am sure apples response will be "It's not a fault, you're riding the wrong bike"

        "You're mounting it wrong."

        —Apple

        This affects any phone that has optical image stabilisation due to the delicate nature of the servos, gyroscopes and magnetic sensors used in these stabilisation mechanisms. Having Android installed won't change the fact that subjecting tiny electro mechanical components and lenses to high amplitude vibrations for long periods of time is not a good idea.

        • If MEMS gyroscopes or magnetic sensors get damaged, there seems to be something wrong with them. They should be basically solid material.
        • by dgatwood ( 11270 )

          use something other than Apple? I am sure apples response will be "It's not a fault, you're riding the wrong bike"

          "You're mounting it wrong."

          —Apple

          This affects any phone that has optical image stabilisation due to the delicate nature of the servos, gyroscopes and magnetic sensors used in these stabilisation mechanisms. Having Android installed won't change the fact that subjecting tiny electro mechanical components and lenses to high amplitude vibrations for long periods of time is not a good idea.

          Sure. I realize they all have the same problem, but at some point, somebody had to say, "This works well enough," and if it's that sensitive, I'd argue that it doesn't, in fact, work well enough, at least if your camera module isn't easily replaceable. I would argue that doing optical stabilization in something that small still doesn't make sense, given the current level of hardware.

          There is another solution, though: Build sensors with 20% larger area with a usable readout speed and a global electronic sh

          • Re:easier solution (Score:5, Insightful)

            by Paul Carver ( 4555 ) on Sunday September 12, 2021 @07:59PM (#61789893)

            Sure. I realize they all have the same problem, but at some point, somebody had to say, "This works well enough," and if it's that sensitive, I'd argue that it doesn't, in fact, work well enough, at least if your camera module isn't easily replaceable. I would argue that doing optical stabilization in something that small still doesn't make sense, given the current level of hardware.

            Wait, are you saying that things that won't work on a motorcycle shouldn't be allowed to exist? I have motorcycle and that seems like a pretty extreme position to me. I'm perfectly fine with allowing the existence and invention of things that can't be mounted to a motorcycle. In fact, I own lots of things that I would never consider mounting to my motorcycle. I don't own one of these OIS phones, but I don't think their existence should be prohibited just because they shouldn't be mounted to my bike.

            I find it very weird when I read posts from people claiming that some technology shouldn't be allowed to exist.

            • by dgatwood ( 11270 )

              Sure. I realize they all have the same problem, but at some point, somebody had to say, "This works well enough," and if it's that sensitive, I'd argue that it doesn't, in fact, work well enough, at least if your camera module isn't easily replaceable. I would argue that doing optical stabilization in something that small still doesn't make sense, given the current level of hardware.

              Wait, are you saying that things that won't work on a motorcycle shouldn't be allowed to exist?

              No, not at all. If a product flies apart under the stress of being mounted to a motorcycle, it's also going to fail on a motorboat, when it gets dropped, when someone with Parkinson's tries to hold it too close to a table, and under a frightening number of other circumstances, like being in your pants pocket for a few years. This isn't a sympathetic vibration issue. A motorcycle's shaking is at way too low a frequency for anything shorter than tens of feet to naturally oscillate. This is basically just failing because of shaking it too much, and those sorts of failures tend to be canaries for bigger problems.

              • by dgatwood ( 11270 )

                Whoops. Missed an end quote tag there. Sorry about that.

              • Sure. I realize they all have the same problem, but at some point, somebody had to say, "This works well enough," and if it's that sensitive, I'd argue that it doesn't, in fact, work well enough, at least if your camera module isn't easily replaceable. I would argue that doing optical stabilization in something that small still doesn't make sense, given the current level of hardware.

                Wait, are you saying that things that won't work on a motorcycle shouldn't be allowed to exist?

                No, not at all. If a product flies apart under the stress of being mounted to a motorcycle, it's also going to fail on a motorboat, when it gets dropped, when someone with Parkinson's tries to hold it too close to a table, and under a frightening number of other circumstances, like being in your pants pocket for a few years. This isn't a sympathetic vibration issue. A motorcycle's shaking is at way too low a frequency for anything shorter than tens of feet to naturally oscillate. This is basically just failing because of shaking it too much, and those sorts of failures tend to be canaries for bigger problems.

                You are still arguing that these things break down because: 'Apple', as if putting an Apple logo on something will cause it to be instantly possessed by a minion of Lucifer himself and then break down. Apple does not design these stabilisation mechanism they source them from somebody else. The exact same technology is used in millions of Android phones, consumer grade cameras and other devices and is subject to the same limitations. If you put delicate electromechanical components on a powerful motorbike an

                • by dgatwood ( 11270 )

                  Sure. I realize they all have the same problem, but at some point, somebody had to say, "This works well enough," and if it's that sensitive, I'd argue that it doesn't, in fact, work well enough, at least if your camera module isn't easily replaceable. I would argue that doing optical stabilization in something that small still doesn't make sense, given the current level of hardware.

                  Wait, are you saying that things that won't work on a motorcycle shouldn't be allowed to exist?

                  No, not at all. If a product flies apart under the stress of being mounted to a motorcycle, it's also going to fail on a motorboat, when it gets dropped, when someone with Parkinson's tries to hold it too close to a table, and under a frightening number of other circumstances, like being in your pants pocket for a few years. This isn't a sympathetic vibration issue. A motorcycle's shaking is at way too low a frequency for anything shorter than tens of feet to naturally oscillate. This is basically just failing because of shaking it too much, and those sorts of failures tend to be canaries for bigger problems.

                  You are still arguing that these things break down because: 'Apple', as if putting an Apple logo on something will cause it to be instantly possessed by a minion of Lucifer himself and then break down.

                  No, I'm really not saying that. You're reading into it what you want to hear.

                  Apple does not design these stabilisation mechanism they source them from somebody else. The exact same technology is used in millions of Android phones, consumer grade cameras and other devices and is subject to the same limitations.

                  I don't disagree with you. But what I think you're missing is the Apple effect. When Apple decides that a technology is mature enough to adopt, the industry follows. If Apple decides that the technology isn't ready, the industry is wary. How many of those companies decided to put that technology into their products because Apple did?

                  If you put delicate electromechanical components on a powerful motorbike and subject it to continuous high amplitude vibrations you are basically putting years of wear and tear on the device in a matter of weeks or even less depending on how much you use your motorcycle and how ridiculously overpowered its engine is.

                  I'm not arguing that this isn't true. I'm arguing that putting delicate electromechanical comp

                • as if putting an Apple logo on something will cause it to be instantly possessed by a minion of Lucifer himself and then break down.

                  How is that a downside? I’d actually pay good money to see that...

            • Wait, are you saying that things that won't work on a motorcycle shouldn't be allowed to exist?

              I think a lot of people just want things that have usage specs that allow for more than "silicon valley temperatures" and "Tesla on California freeway" level vibrations.

              This kind of consumer product should have the expectation that it works for most people, most of the time. Otherwise it is a shitty product. Corporations should perhaps be allowed to sell shitty products, but we kind of wish they didn't.

          • > Build sensors with 20% larger area with a usable readout speed and a global electronic shutter, then shoot at 1000 fps and motion-compensate the subframes using machine learning combined with gyro data and the image data, then sum the values to get the noise floor down to something usable.

            That's pretty much what smartphone cameras have already been doing for years. Computational burst photography has been here for quite a while, albeit with the concept leaning less on gyro data and more on interpretati

            • by dgatwood ( 11270 )

              > Build sensors with 20% larger area with a usable readout speed and a global electronic shutter, then shoot at 1000 fps and motion-compensate the subframes using machine learning combined with gyro data and the image data, then sum the values to get the noise floor down to something usable.

              That's pretty much what smartphone cameras have already been doing for years. Computational burst photography has been here for quite a while, albeit with the concept leaning less on gyro data and more on interpretation of image data.

              Yes and no. Most of that burst photography has involved picking the least blurred shot (probably five years after I suggested what I suggested), but that's not the same thing as taking a few dozen (or a few hundred) really short shots, aligning them HDR-style, and summing them. The difference between those two approaches is the difference between taking four shots that last 1/8th of a second and hoping for at least one that isn't too smeared and taking 100 shots that last 1/200th of a second and hoping th

              • by dgatwood ( 11270 )

                Err... weight. Gotta watch the typos. I'd blame my iPhone, but I was using my Mac. Then again, I have several more keys falling off now, so....

        • >"This affects any phone that has optical image stabilisation"

          My same Moto Android phone with optical image stabilizers has seen many thousands of miles on my motorcycle over the last 4+ years and the camera works fine. Same with my Nexus 5 Android phone with optical image stabilizers for 5 years preceding that.

          It could also be mine is mounted in the very center and not off on either bar. Or that it is a 16V inline 4. I am not saying other phones are immune and/or on all bikes, but a blanket statement

        • Why does someone always have to bring facts and reason into an irrational and completely subjective shitposting contest between haters and fanboys?

    • Re:easier solution (Score:5, Informative)

      by OzPeter ( 195038 ) on Sunday September 12, 2021 @06:06PM (#61789537)

      use something other than Apple? I am sure apples response will be "It's not a fault, you're riding the wrong bike"

      It's a problem with pretty well every smart phone that has mechanical image stabilization. They don't take kindly to continual vibration, specially the type where the phone is mechanically bonded to a motorcycle. From the comments on the the Mac Rumors story, it' s a well known issue that has been around ever since there was image stabilization and it's not just related to apple products.

    • The good news? Next up is an article that lists motofcycle makes that are less prone to damaging your phone's camera. The bad news? Slashdot prints said article on April 1st, 2022.

    • by v1 ( 525388 )

      ANY camera with image stabilization will have this weakness. If you hard-mount hardware that's sensitive to vibration to a machine that produces severe vibrations, it's going to get damaged. This is just common sense.

  • by awwshit ( 6214476 ) on Sunday September 12, 2021 @05:26PM (#61789405)

    I 'mount' my phone in my inside jacket pocket. Where I guess it only finds good vibrations.

    If the map is that important mount one on your tank, a printed one, say in a tank bag.

  • And Planes (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Master Moose ( 1243274 ) on Sunday September 12, 2021 @05:35PM (#61789439) Homepage

    A few years ago, I kept my HTC in the "Magazine" Pocket in front of me on a long haul flight while I listed to podcasts.

    I decided not to take a camera, as I wanted to pack light and my phone was sufficient.

    I arrived in my destination country and was unable to take photos with any focus as I toured around on that device. Hours of Aeroplane buzz did it to mine. Same story, googled the problem and it was "Vibrations killed my camera"

  • by sonoronos ( 610381 ) on Sunday September 12, 2021 @05:40PM (#61789451)

    Anyone who adventure rides knows their phones will have damaged OIS systems when mounted on a motorbike. 100+ miles of rocky dirt at 45-60mph? OIS has no chance.

    I've had this happen to both my Samsung and Apple phones. It's the nature of the beast with OIS and adventure riding.

    Unless the OIS systems find some way to "park" OIS when not in use, or they develop some kind of ultra-durable OIS system, I can't see how this could be avoided.

    • Military suppliers (real ones, not tacticool larpshit) solved the phone problem nicely with various MOLLE and forearm mounts. I don't care to hang phone mounts off my vintage British machines (though Commandos and Tridents don't vibrate much) or Shovelheads (which of course do) so I wear Juggernaut forearm mount. The mount therefore the phone stays with me so I need not remember to dismount it when parked. For off-road I'd be more interested in a chest mount since adding compatible areas to riding gear woul

    • by gTsiros ( 205624 )

      Anyone remember park.com ?

      Anyone?

    • by antdude ( 79039 )

      So, no existing smartphones can handle this? :(

      • by dasunt ( 249686 )
        I have an old Moto X, works just fine, seen many miles mounted directly to a handlebar. Camera still works.
    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      It seems that GoPro doesn't use OIS, they use software stabilization. The original Google Pixel phone did that too, although the current model has OIS as well.

      I have an original Pixel XL and the stabilization is incredible, better than OIS for hand-held shots.

  • No playing Beach Boys!

    Good Vibrations [youtube.com]

  • Easy choice Bike Wins!
  • by backslashdot ( 95548 ) on Sunday September 12, 2021 @05:47PM (#61789467)

    "You're riding it wrong."

  • Yes, heaven forbid they build that kind of thing into a phone that cost a zillion bucks

  • by couchslug ( 175151 ) on Sunday September 12, 2021 @06:30PM (#61789609)

    I wear a Juggernaut military forearm mount with my S9+ for convenience but it also decouples the phone from drivetrain vibration. Bonus, the phone remains with me.

    • by Mal-2 ( 675116 )

      I knew someone who wanted to make an arm-mounted phone case that resembled a Pip-Boy but he knew he'd get sued in a heartbeat. Since it would have been made of latex, it would have also been pretty good at vibration damping. He'd actually made a couple, and worn them, but decided eyeball keychains and the like were a better way to make money from the garage shop.

  • Quad-lock (Score:5, Informative)

    by countach ( 534280 ) on Sunday September 12, 2021 @06:44PM (#61789647)

    This is not unique to Apple, and it's why Quad-lock developed a motorcycle mount dampener with soft rubber mounting bushes. Quad lock motorcycle mount dampener [quadlockcase.com.au]

    • That vibration insulator probably helps a bit, but they show a graph of its damping without numbers on either the frequency (x) or the g-force (y) axis. That suggests that they are not as good as they try to suggest.

      • Don't know, but it only has to be good enough not to damage it. I rode a motorcycle for quite a while before the dampener was available and didn't damage my phone. The dampener is really wobbly, and probably does a lot to help.

  • And I make mounts explicitly designed to absorb and dampen the vibration so you don't damage your phone.
    • Allied military vehicles such as the Sherman, DUKW and Weasel had compasses and radio gear mounted on shock mounts. For instance the Pioneer compass when fited to those vehicles was suspended by aircraft instrument shock mounts in a bronze frame. Radio gear was often on sprung trays, for example the FT-250 which was used in the Willys MB / Ford GPW jeep.
  • The old days (Score:5, Insightful)

    by presearch ( 214913 ) on Sunday September 12, 2021 @06:51PM (#61789687)

    It's an interesting and difficult to solve problem.

    In the old days, slashdot was inhabited by mostly intelligent, well-read engineers that would quickly
    grasp the issues of vibrations in a domain that could damage small delicate components.
    Now, mostly clueless 12 year olds hang out here with nothing of value to contribute.

    • Indeed. These days, it's all about fanboys vs fanboys and no intelligent arguments from either side. Oh and by the way, both Microsoft and Sony suck! Nintendo FTW!!1

      • by OzPeter ( 195038 )

        Indeed. These days, it's all about fanboys vs fanboys and no intelligent arguments from either side. Oh and by the way, both Microsoft and Sony suck! Nintendo FTW!!1

        You spelt Micro$oft wrong. :P And the MS fanboys and haters have been on /. as long as I can remember.

  • You're holding it wrong.
  • If your dSLR or mirrorless camera has in-body image stabilization, I assume carrying it in a camera bag while you're in motion would dampen these vibrations enough to where this hopefully wouldn't be a concern. But you probably wouldn't want to just strap it on your handlebars (for many reasons - not just this one).

  • There are ways to mount the phone that won't transmit (most of) the vibration, from simple rubber isolators to a basket mount like you'd do with a microphone. I can't say what setup would work best, as it would depend on the exact nature of the vibrations, but there are ways this can be made to work. Only the quick and dirty ways are being ruled out.

  • If you vibrate anything at the right amplitude & frequency, it can go bust.
  • I bought a barely used Android for 60 bucks, downloaded maps over wifi, and I'm good. Don't get traffic updates, but there is no traffic where I ride.

    Bonus: If i get separated from the bike in an accident and no one's around, my phone's in my pocket. And if I want to stop to snap a pic, pulling the phone out of my pocket is much quicker than unmounting and remounting it.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Yep, my iPhone 11 worked fine on my lower RPM, more vibration-free Harley Softail than on the much higher revving Kawasaki Vulcan S (aka a chainsaw with wheels) that I got this spring. Took only a few weeks of use on the Kawasaki for the front camera to never focus lock and just seek and seek and seek. It now resides in my pocket and I use my brain as the GPS cuz I don't want to pay for another out-of-warranty repair.

  • As the publication notes, that damage can be permanent.

    As opposed to damage that the camera repairs itself?

  • Vibrations on a motorcycle will shake apart just about anything that isn't specifically designed to be there. Nothing new about that. You have to go to a lot of extra trouble to glue EVERYTHING to the circuit board or the solder will turn into powder. And really large components have to be screwed down in multiple places. Of course the older bikes are worse than the newer ones. The handlebars on my Norton Commando used visibly shake 1/4" or more when it was idling.

    In case you are wondering, the inside

When your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt. -- Henry J. Kaiser

Working...