Catch up on stories from the past week (and beyond) at the Slashdot story archive

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Wireless Networking Communications The Internet

2G and 3G Networks Are Shutting Down. Should You Consider 5G For IoT? (eetimes.com) 74

Posted by EditorDavid from the there's-a-disconnect dept.
"There is no simple answer to this question," argues an article at EE Times. At least, not yet...

Slashdot reader dkatana shares their report: For most industrial IoT applications, the question remains: Do I need 5G for my IoT connections? It depends on the connectivity, the devices, and many other factors. First, does the project need cellular connectivity? There are several wireless low-power wide-area networks (LPWANs) using different radios that can be used without incurring the cost of cellular connections. Other wireless technologies such as LoRaWAN and Sigfox offer massive IoT connectivity for local and wide-area applications with low power consumption. For example, connecting hundreds or thousands of sensors in agriculture can be achieved over an existing Sigfox or LoRaWAN network. Those sensors usually do not require the bandwidth or enhanced security of cellular networks. Additionally, most cellular connections use licensed spectrum, which is additional cost carriers need to transfer to customers.

One reason to invest in 5G connectivity for IoT is that operators are shutting down legacy 2G and 3G networks worldwide. In the past 30 years, hundreds of thousands of Machine-to-Machine (M2M) devices have been deployed using 2G networks. Those are utility meters, alarm systems, and basic sensors that use SMS and GPRS/EDGE for communication. In 2017, AT&T announced that they will start shutting down 2G networks to free up the spectrum for LTE and the upcoming 5G radios. Additionally, Verizon Wireless phased out its 2G CDMA network in the US at the end of 2020; Sprint sunsetted its 2G CDMA network in December of 2021; and T-Mobile plans to sunset its 2G network in December of 2022.

The existing connections are now living on borrowed time.

Like 2G, many carriers are eager to sunset older 3G networks so that they can repurpose that spectrum to support 4G LTE and 5G.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

2G and 3G Networks Are Shutting Down. Should You Consider 5G For IoT? More

2G and 3G Networks Are Shutting Down. Should You Consider 5G For IoT?

Comments Filter:
  • As someone working for a company that is currently deploying IoT on CatM1 and LoRaWAN, it is still anyone's game as far as which technologies survive. That may not seem like a big deal for consumers, but when we're talking about mission-critical sensors for utilities that need to stay up for a decade or more, you start to see the problem.

    We are currently leaning towards 4G or 5G connectivity as a replacement - anyone disagree? Thoughts on who will win?

    • Re:It's still a wild west (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Fly Swatter ( 30498 ) on Saturday August 21, 2021 @02:58PM (#61715405) Homepage
      Mission-critical and wireless, plus internet - now there's a winning combination.

      • *dusts off his Metasploit and aircrack*

        Oh it will be. Trust me. O:-)

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by PPH ( 736903 )

        Imagine the Port-Out scams and SIM hijacking with all of our critical infrastructure. When it comes to security, our cellular system operators are just not up to the job [bleepingcomputer.com].

        • We should be building devices with the assumption that what they're talking to may be either an imposter or compromised. Networks are just one layer of security and in the event of a major power like a hostile nation it's the least likely to hold up.

      • The only way to coerce better security is attacks by malicious actors, because non-techis end users will ALWAYS consider security a burden.
        Attacks coerce immune responses leading to (a few) more robust systems.
        Wireless is inherently garbage but it's so convenient the damage will be tolerable provided only dispensable networks are wireless. Of course that won't happen and some will be slain as examples to others.

    • Is it important enough to run a wire to the thing? If not then who cares ðYââ(TM)ï

      • Is it important enough to run a wire to the thing? If not then who cares ðYââ(TM)ï

        What if it moves? Maybe it's a nuclear bomb? Maybe it's a set of COVID vaccines that need to maintain a stable temperature and where we need a really accurate idea when they're going to arrive so we can get people ready for them? Maybe it's an Ambulance. Not everything important can be wired.

        • You want a nuclear bomb to be controllled over a 5G wireless connection??

          Given how Iran captured a US drone because its wireless controls sucked... Now THERE'S a way to give Iran nuclear bombs! XD

          But go ahead. Stupid deserves to hurt.

          • "You want a nuclear bomb to be controllled over a 5G wireless connection??"

            Yes, it only explodes if there's an iPhone around to deliver the detonation sequence.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by PPH ( 736903 )

            You want a nuclear bomb to be controllled over a 5G wireless connection??

            Why not? [everydaynodaysoff.com]

        • None of that uses 3/4G. Anything government related will run on its own network with its own radio frequency band, this includes ambulances and the like.

          There are ambulances and government vehicles with mobile WiFi but they just buy a hotspot from a provider and mount it in the car, that will not be used for anything critical though.

          Almost everything else you mentioned does not want to be designed with WiFi or cellular antennae. The total power budget for those things is minuscule compared with any modem, i

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by ksw_92 ( 5249207 )

            How '70s of you. If you live in any large metro area (or suburb or exurb) you'll find cellular-connected laptops in police patrol cars. And, most likely, fire/EMS vehicles. They will likely have trunked radios for voice comms but dispatch data, license queries, and a fair amount of tactical data come over a commercial cellular data network. All of the major cell networks also have prioritized traffic management active now so if the Big One hits the Bay Area the network, if its working at all, will not take

    • Re:It's still a wild west (Score:4, Informative)

      by crow ( 16139 ) on Saturday August 21, 2021 @03:17PM (#61715463) Homepage Journal

      If you can get a chip that does both, you're in good shape. 5G doesn't propagate as well, so it shouldn't kill 4G.

      • Nobody is talking about 5G on millimeter wave bands, just regular 5G over regular LTE bands. The working name for the 5G protocol was LTE+ which gives you a good sense of what 5G really is. I'm not sure how relevant 5G is for future proofing as Telecom equipment does DSS (Dynamic Spectrum Sharing) which dynamically allocates spectrum between LTE and 5G so shutting down LTE should not free up large swaths of bandwidth for them, thus I don't believe there will much incentive for the Telecoms to do so, far int

      • 5G doesn't propagate as well, so it shouldn't kill 4G.

        5G and 4G propagate identically when the frequencies are identical. And 5G specifically includes the same frequency spectrum as 4G with *additional* frequencies also available.

    • It's a bit hard to see in the future, but if you bet on 4G or 5G, you can be sure that those will be around for a good while. Neither CatM1 and LoRaWan are established long enough for a provider to have much incentive to keep it around; if one wins, the other might be gone fast. The best option would be to deploy carrier-agnostic if you can, with an option to jump ship without too great an expense.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by sjames ( 1099 )

        OTOH, for some applications of LoRa you can provide your own gateway to make sure no carrier pulls the rug out from under you (again). LoRa modules are significantly less expensive than 4G.

        Carrier agnostic helps except in cases where they all decide to shut down the service you're using such as now with 3G.

      • A problem with 2G and 3G gear is that a lot of it isn't legacy, it's stuff which is still being deployed right now. Kinda scary that the writing has been on the wall for years, and in some places 3G networks have already been shut down, but companies are still deploying gear right now that relies on 3G to function.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by thsths ( 31372 )

      I think multi-protocol support is the only way forward. Different countries are running different strategies.

      Germany is keeping 2G+ for now, but they are sunsetting 3G.

      The UK still has all standards, but it seems that 3G support is thinning in favour of 4G and of course 5G.

      The USA have stopped 2G, and are sunsetting 3G.

      The future of 4G and 5G is uncertain, although 5G will be around for at least a decade if history is any indicator.

    • wireless is for mooks who cannot run wires.

  • Much less any IOT devices.

    Unless there is some compelling reason for 5G, I don't really see any benefits over 4G.

    Shouldn't you be securing your IOT devices instead of hoping you can use your 2G/3G devices for their trade-in value?

    • The biggest benefit of 5G is not to the individual user but to the carrier. 5G includes better beamforming, so a cell can handle more subscribers.

      But for IoT the benefit is longevity of the device. 4G will probably be sunsetted in about 10 years, whereas 5G is likely to be good for 20. If you're rolling out something along the lines of remotely read utility meters, getting an extra ten years before you have to do another truck roll to replace your devices may be worth the added expense.

  • Just to be futureproof. A thing I'm working on now uses sigfox. Maybe in a few short years sigfox will be retired in favour of 5G or some other thing. Who knows?

  • Helium Network for IoT (Score:5, Informative)

    by anonymouscoward52236 ( 6163996 ) on Saturday August 21, 2021 @03:25PM (#61715489)
    Anyone in the US (and many parts over the world) can use LoRaWAN to connect to the 135,693 Helium Hotspots (not over exaggerating) to push out your tiny bits of sensor data. Every green dot on this map is a place where long range coverage is available. https://explorer.helium.com/ho... [helium.com]

  • Toy's IoT versus Real/Industrial IoT (Score:4, Interesting)

    by williamyf ( 227051 ) on Saturday August 21, 2021 @03:55PM (#61715577)

    Actually, the answer is realy simple.

    Real/Industrial IoT (smart natual gas/electricity/water metters, meteoroligical and sysmographic stations, self driving cars, platoon driving truck fleets, etc) should (and will) go mid and low band 5G in earnest and haste. With eSIMs so that you can change providers whan needed be.

    Toy IoT, do as you wish. It is a toy after all.

    • I *really* hope not. Because that will be one giant hackfest.

      Just imagine driving up to your nearest chemical plant with a nice little spark gap, jamming everything, and causing the entire thing to shut down. Or worse.

      USE A DAMN CABLE, YOU LUDDITES!

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by ksw_92 ( 5249207 )

        You must have access to Zeus' spark generator because it'll take something like that, sustained, to disrupt wideband COFDM signals.

        Also, if you've ever worked in any kind of large process plant you'll know that most of the process control systems are wired. The machines aren't going anywhere and the amount of stray EMF from motors, VFDs and even the processes themselves require some thought to design for, even in a wired system.

    • The good smart utility meters, like we have in my area, use something similar to wifi, and they simply drive a truck through the neighborhood to collect the data. There is no need to connect that shit to the internet, or rely on equipment operated by, or accessible to, anybody other than the utility.

  • You should consider a bog-standard wire. Like a normal person.

    It's already mounted to a wall, It already needs electricity, it doesn't need a high bandwidth, so powerline is the obvious solution.

    Why do you have the obsession of making everything "wireless", even if it doesn't even have the processing power to handle proper encryption?
    It literally only has disadvantages. Like one more battery to recharge until you need to throw away the entire device. Like jammability. And hackability. And limitations caused

  • You should not consider IoT at all (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Z80a ( 971949 ) on Saturday August 21, 2021 @04:19PM (#61715617)

    There's no reason why having everything in your house running ancient unprotected versions of Linux that in many cases will turn into bricks as soon the company keeping em almost inevitably folds or decide your device is "obsolete".

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Ksevio ( 865461 )

      IoT devices with mobile networks wouldn't be the type you'd run in your house and they're usually not the type that would run Linux.

      For your house, there are plenty of options for devices that connect locally only

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

        IoT devices with mobile networks wouldn't be the type you'd run in your house and they're usually not the type that would run Linux.

        Actually, they would. Talking to a cell network isn't simple, so there are network stacks associated with it. Plus, 4G and 5G networks are IP based, so you'd need an OS that is very good at IP. Say, Linux.

        Linux also has support of many SoC vendors making it extremely easy to put your application on it.

        Practically speaking, pretty much all more sophisticated IoT devices run Lin

        • With 2G and 3G, you could buy little modules that had cellular connectivity and could run basic applications - a lot of older smart meters did this using the cellular network. Sorta like how the ESP32 has a complete network stack inside it so it can do WiFi applications out of the box. But these modules don't exist for 4G and up because those networks are solidly IP based and have no room in them for legacy stuff, like voice, lightweight reporting etc. You want to do those, your application must talk IP.

          Plus, for many industrial applications, it's easier to embed Linux.

          Several companies are now offering new integrated chipsets with basic processing, RAM, cellular modem (2G,LTE, 5G ready) and embedded SIM (eSIM). One example is SONY semiconductor (Altair).

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Iot is more than just toasters.

      I built some IoT products to detect and locate leaks in underground water pipes. Saves vast amounts of potable water.

    • There's no reason why having everything in your house

      No one gives a shit about your house. IoT has major industrial and infrastructure applications.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Z80a ( 971949 )

        Do they actually need to connect to the Internet, instead of a local network?, you know, the whole I of IoT?

        • If your local network stretches across the country wirelessly then presumably you could use that ... assuming you want to pay for the maintenance and license fees.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Z80a ( 971949 )

            Or you could use a computer using an actually safe version of linux on every location, and this computer sends the data to the local network.

            • So magically your computer is "actually safe" but your piece of equipment is not? Here's a hint: Buy the right product in the first place rather than bolting two together.

  • Tried sourcing cell modules lately? It's a six month lead time at least.

    • You should not wish for 2G / 3G, or any cheap garbage not PTCRB certified if you don't want to have to throw it away. (PTCRB is like extra FCC layers that help all cellular devices not stomp on each other's toes. In general cellular networks will boot non-compliant devices and blacklist you.)

  • Betteridge No. (Score:3)

    by PPH ( 736903 ) on Saturday August 21, 2021 @06:50PM (#61715955)

    Also, fooled me once, shame on you. Fool me again, shame on me. My local power/gas company saw this b.s. coming a long time ago and built out their own meter reading mesh network.

    • Your local power company will abandon that network. 5G was *specifically* designed for IoT applications in mind. Their goal was primarily to merge the myriad of different wireless standards for multiple purposes including IoT, LMR, and Cellular networks into a single network. Your local power company will migrate as the cost of maintaining a network and paying licensing fees is high compared to letting someone else do the work on a better equipped network.

      My local power company who also have their own mesh

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by PPH ( 736903 )

        Your local power company will abandon that network.

        No. They built it when 2G GPRS was available and cheap. They saw the shit-show coming then. It has only been confirmed with the 2G/3G shutdown. You could give away 5G service and they'd sill laugh in your face. Maybe have the telecoms put a few billion dollars in escrow to pay for the abandonment and replacement of 5G equipment and they might listen. That's where the real costs are.

        They still run their own microwave links. Because telephone companies suck. They share poles with them and they know what a ci

        • Also, abandoned spectrum used for radio mesh networks is becoming plentiful as people grab at the shiny thing.

          Someone could make a lot of money with a mesh alternative in areas that are a certain density.

          Also, the religious idiocy of people following captive internet providers down the cell-hell hole won't last. It will either fail through complacency or a breakup of these companies over anti competitive practices.

          The problem is that companies (and people) do not know enough about networking. They don't und

        • You could give away 5G service and they'd sill laugh in your face.

          Laugh in my face while actually migrating to the service? Why would they do that? Are you living in some alternate reality where you think what you're saying is correct?

          You seem to think that running your own infrastructure is cost free. The reality is no, they aren't desperately attempting to cling on to some proprietary gear. My own meter is already LTE as it is one of the newer ones. The energy companies here started a roll out attempting to get rid of their old network in 2017 with plans to decommission

  • The real question is (Score:4, Insightful)

    by JustAnotherOldGuy ( 4145623 ) on Saturday August 21, 2021 @07:32PM (#61716081) Journal

    The real question is, "Should you consider IoT at all?"

    Seeing as how it's a well-documented shitshow when it comes to IoT security, I'm leery of loading my network with dozens of hard-coded exploitable backdoors.

    X-10 stuff was crude as hell but it couldn't steal my banking details or install a hidden kiddie porn server on my PC.

    With IoT stuff on the other hand, you even have to patch your light bulbs [slashdot.org].

    • You put your IOT stuff on a dedicated network with solid firewall rules and let go of the fact that the security is miserable and it is a giant vector to attack you. It makes it more work, but if you want the stuff it makes some sense.

    • The real question is, "Should you consider IoT at all?"

      No one gives a shit about *your* consumer junk. IoT is a very real thing in commercial and industrial applications. The fact that TFA is talking about Sigfox and LoRAWAN should be an indication that your shitty lightbulbs aren't what is being discussed.

      • I apologize for triggering you.

        Also, I'm sure that commercial and industrial IoT applications will be 100% secure, as has been shown in the past. Oh, wait...

        • I apologize for triggering you.

          You don't read people very well.

          Also, I'm sure that commercial and industrial IoT applications will be 100% secure, as has been shown in the past. Oh, wait...

          Not sure why you wrote "Oh wait". They quite objectively have been proven to time and time again, many thanks to not being predominantly hawked by shitty Chinese no-names on Alibaba. But if you're after perfect security well ... I won't want to be the person telling someone that Santa isn't real, but I'm afraid you will be disappointed with everything in your life.

  • ....isn't there a marketing website you belong on instead of Slashdot?

    I thought most of the people here are tech savvy enough to laugh at the idea of iot toasters and door locks.

  • 5G strikes me as still being a little rough around the edges, particularly in the power consumption department. It'd probably be worth waiting before building it into any kind of all-in-one, long-term product. 4G should still have years in it, and while 5G will be around longer, none of it is going to be forever anyways.

  • Will create a reduction in coverage for it if the way places when they shut off CMDA\3G

  • What it boils down to is are the devices in a fixed installation where they won't move once installed, or are they mobile and need connectivity regardless of where they are at the moment? Fixed installations should avoid cellular connectivity like the plague. Use some other RF networking technology, and connect the base station(s) to a wired or WiFi LAN for backhaul if you need remote connectivity.

    For mobile, consider Bluetooth connectivity. If the application's one where the device is going to be on a pers

  • Well it depends (Score:3)

    by Casandro ( 751346 ) on Sunday August 22, 2021 @02:45AM (#61716791)

    2G is usually only switched off in places 2G never was really popular (like the US), so if you've used it before you will likely be able to use it for many years to come.

    That said, unlike WCDMA, LTE modems are fairly cheap, often nearly as cheap as pure GSM/GPRS/EDGE ones since LTE allows for a feature called Narrow-Band LTE. This allows you to only look at part of the channel and therefore make a tradeoff between data rate and cost.

  • Turns out in this case the answer is yes. Despite what people think about 5G (why do I need more speed?) fast mobile phones were not the target market for the standard at all. 5G represented the culmination of several years of work by 3GPP to try and merge the myriad of different special purpose networks into one network suitable for many applications. The design goal of 5G always included IoT (industrial and commercial, no one gives a crap about your smart lightbulbs), as well as land-mobile radio. This is

  • I had not heard of either LoRaWAN or sigfox, so I had a quick one-over on their pages.

    The sigfox page is one of the worst I have ever visited. It is apparently written by someone who doesnâ(TM)t understand their own product and/or English. They canâ(TM)t even decide if itâ(TM)s Sigfox, sigfox, or even SIGFOX.

    Amateurish crap. If their web page is this bad imagine the software stack.

  • I see the use cases for reduced latency and increased bandwidth but I also see many more negatives than positives for loss of existing services. Hell I would love to have my old analog Motorola StarTac which could send SMS messages and even while signal quality was weak as hell you could often still communicate. Same as analog TV, I used to have access to 5 television stations albeit often fuzzy but audio worked always. Now I have zero TV and one FM radio station, they bastards even pulled down the 9600ba

Slashdot Top Deals

And it should be the law: If you use the word `paradigm' without knowing what the dictionary says it means, you go to jail. No exceptions. -- David Jones

Close