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Wireless Networking

The Biggest Problems With Bluetooth Audio Are About To Be Fixed (gizmodo.com) 91

Posted by msmash from the up-next dept.
Bluetooth will soon roll out some of its technology's biggest improvements in its nearly 20-year history. From a report: The new Bluetooth standard will be known as LE Audio and one of the biggest improvements it will include will be a feature called Multi-Stream Audio. Bluetooth is currently limited to streaming audio to just a single device. That's fine for portable speakers and headphones where both sides are connected with a wire, but for wireless earbuds, such as Apple's AirPods, your smartphone can actually only connect to one side. That earbud then has to forward the audio stream onto the one in your other ear, which requires some clever software tricks to ensure everything remains in sync. Multi-Stream Audio will solve that, as it will allow a single device, such as a smartphone, to stream flawlessly synced audio to multiple audio devices at the same time.

The most obvious benefit is that it will be much easier to make wireless earbuds work more reliably, without any audio lag issues. But the feature promises to also benefit those who want to use their wireless headphones with multiple devices at the same time, such as a tablet, phone, and a laptop, streamlining the process of switching between each audio source without having to go through an annoying disconnect/reconnect process each time. Bluetooth LE Audio will also make sharing a music stream with others possible. Users should be able to easily share audio from their smartphone with friends, as multiple sets of wireless headphones can be connected to a single source device at once, and each should receive the exact same audio stream in perfect sync with all the others. Further expanding on that idea is another new feature known as Broadcast Audio which allows a single audio source device to broadcast several audio streams to an unlimited number of wireless headphones, without any private pairing required.
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The Biggest Problems With Bluetooth Audio Are About To Be Fixed More

The Biggest Problems With Bluetooth Audio Are About To Be Fixed

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  • This Might help those with Hearing Aids (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Tulsa_Time ( 2430696 ) on Tuesday January 07, 2020 @12:49PM (#59595788)

    I am working with my mothers hearing aids trying to get a second copy of a source signal to them..

    It would be easier if the devices just allow a direct connection...

    • I am working with my mothers hearing aids trying to get a second copy of a source signal to them..

      It would be easier if the devices just allow a direct connection...

      Would you please expand on that?

      I have hearing aids that just pair with my iPhone using the Resound app. I can deliver part numbers on the aids if needed. I looked for a Resound app for Windows 10 and I need that or similar for Dish Hopper 3.

      I hope you get Mom fixed up.

      Thanks.

      • Yes,. hers are Resound also...

        The trick is that the source ( a TV or stereo receiver for instance ) is not well designed to provide multiple audio out signals...

        I am trying to use an "Audio Extractor" that splits out the LR audio from a HDMI signal... hopeful this will work...

        The other issue is we have to use a separate Resound transmitter to take that split out source to the hearing aids...

        Someday I hope to see these source devices (Receivers, TVs etc... ) provide a signal that your hearing aids/headph

        • Forgot to mention.. you are absolutely correct about pairing an iphone to the Resound hearing aids... we do that already...

          Thanks!

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by AvitarX ( 172628 )

          Don't know if this product helps you (I've never used it), but their hearing assist devices (which I do have) I find good enough that I don't feel bad throwing it out there as maybe useful.

          I don't even know if it'll pair with other brands.

          https://www.nuheara.com/produc... [nuheara.com]

        • The trick is that the source ( a TV or stereo receiver for instance ) is not well designed to provide multiple audio out signals...

          It's not just TVs and receivers. Windows can't do it either. It can pipe one audio stream to one set of speakers and a second audio stream to a second set of speakers. It can mux multiple audio streams together for simultaneous playback on one set of speakers. But try to pipe one audio stream to two separate outputs simultaneously and it can't do it. The only way I've found

        • Yes,. hers are Resound also...

          The trick is that the source ( a TV or stereo receiver for instance ) is not well designed to provide multiple audio out signals...

          I am trying to use an "Audio Extractor" that splits out the LR audio from a HDMI signal... hopeful this will work...

          The other issue is we have to use a separate Resound transmitter to take that split out source to the hearing aids...

          Someday I hope to see these source devices (Receivers, TVs etc... ) provide a signal that your hearing aids/headphones could just select from.

          Thanks for your response.

          Given a choice, I wish your mother success over my own. Moms are important.

    • I bought a bluetooth transciever that allows two headphones to be paired. In my case it was a set of headphones and hearing aids.
      TaoTronics Bluetooth 5.0 Transmitter and Receiver

      I found that using bluetooth for the hearing aids and the hdmi audio out on the TV box had audio latency issues. The dual BT transmitter solved that.

  • To buy new stuff. I'm a Bluetooth junkie, with 5 different headsets/headphones I use regularly for different purposes, and 2 more stashed away that are fine, just weak batteries.

    Yeah to spending more money. Or not...

  • The biggest problem? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by apoc.famine ( 621563 ) <apoc.famine@g m a i l . com> on Tuesday January 07, 2020 @12:55PM (#59595822) Journal

    How is something which already has a software work-around the biggest problem with BT audio?

    I would think the latency issue which currently doesn't have a software work-around would be the biggest problem.

    • I'll be waiting until they can solve the issue of not being able to send uncompressed audio.

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

        • Re:The biggest problem? (Score:4, Informative)

          by jrumney ( 197329 ) on Tuesday January 07, 2020 @09:44PM (#59597724)

          LDAC audio quality is good (almost lossless for CD quality), but requires a strong signal (quality gets noticably worse if I put my phone in my pocket, but to check the quality parameters I need to pull it out of my pocket, so I can't tell whether it is because it switched to a different codec, or a lower quality LDAC with more error correction overhead).

          AAC is noticeably different if you compare it side by side with wired, but tolerable. The standard codec and aptX (original version) are awful. I can't comment on aptX HD, as I don't have any sources that support it, but it should be somewhere between AAC and LDAC due to the increased bandwidth, but still using 1980's non-perceptual compression techniques.

      • BT support various codecs. Do better research next time you shop for BT devices. The trick is each device has different support, so you need both ends to support the same high quality codec.

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by Knuckles ( 8964 )

          And not having to do that (with sometimes imperfect results even if both sides claim to support a given codec) woud count as "solving the issue"

        • Re: The biggest problem? (Score:4, Insightful)

          by JustAnotherOldGuy ( 4145623 ) on Tuesday January 07, 2020 @03:45PM (#59596514) Journal

          I solved this problem by plugging my headphones into the headphone jack, and all the latency and codec problems vanished as if by magic.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Pascoea ( 968200 )
            I don't see how that helps Apple sell more Airbuds... Won't someone think of Tim Cook's 5th yacht?

          • Oh, there is still the speed of light issue to deal with as the electrons travel down the wire...

            • Actually, the electrons do not flow down the wire. The wire is "full of electrons" already. When you "push" an electron in one end, one pops out the other end. The electron that "pops out" is not the one that was "pushed in". Think of it as a garden hose full of water. When you push water in one end, water comes out the other end. It is not the water that you put in, but the number of molecules of water that come out correspond to the number of molecules you forced in.

              Contrast this with glass fiber op

              • Re: (Score:1)

                by Anonymous Coward

                You're not wrong about the ether's makeup, but the "push" impulse still propagates through the medium.

                >>That is why it is manifestly impossible to "steal" a RF broadcast. You are merely decoding the movements induced in your property by a third party.

                As much as I agree about a user merely interpreting shit being openly broadcast and thus void of any illusions of "information quarantine", [the buyers of] our legal system don't care. You're not allowed to observe electrons they shook Because Peasant.

              • Everything you said is exactly correct, and would surprise a lot of people who think they know how electricity works.

                If I had mod points, they'd be yours.

      • I believe this has already been solved with alternative codecs such as AptX, AAC, or even MP3 (assuming the speaker and source devices both support it).

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by amorsen ( 7485 )

          Not really solved. If you use AptX HD you can sort of sneak two channels of uncompressed CD quality through the compression, but the compression and decompression are needless steps in that case that only waste energy and cause latency.

          • Re:The biggest problem? (Score:4, Informative)

            by jrumney ( 197329 ) on Tuesday January 07, 2020 @10:01PM (#59597772)

            2 channels of uncompressed CD audio is 1.4Mbps (excluding error correction overhead, which on Bluetooth is usually around 20%). aptX HD uses 600kbps (two 300kbps Bluetooth audio channels). aptX HD also resamples the source to 48kHz 24 bit audio, which would require 2.3Mbps to send uncompressed.

            aptX HD is only "uncompressed CD quality" in the same way that 320kbps MP3 is. Many people won't hear a difference on a majority of audio content, especially if they are not doing an A-B comparison. But it is a dishonest way to describe a 1:4 lossy compression.

    • Re:The biggest problem? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by dgatwood ( 11270 ) on Tuesday January 07, 2020 @01:07PM (#59595882) Homepage Journal

      The biggest problem with Bluetooth audio is that it doesn't always work. I try to use it in my Tesla with my iPhone. At least once a month, I have to either reboot my car or my phone or both, because the d**n thing won't connect. So instead of one second to plug in a cable, I spend zero seconds the first 19 times, followed by three or four minutes that twentieth time, screwing with it. (And I'm already plugging the phone in to USB-based power anyway, to make this story even more comical.)

      And it was even worse in my previous car, where I had the built-in hardware with a phone profile and a separate A2DP receiver for streaming audio. I literally had to manually force the A2DP hardware to connect manually every single time I got into the car, because the iPhone simply could not deal with the two devices appearing simultaneously and do the right thing (stereo to A2DP, phone calls to the car itself). And on top of that, about once every couple of weeks, I would have to spend minutes unplugging power to the A2DP receiver and power-cycling my phone.

      When Bluetooth works every time, I'll stop calling it a complete joke. All of these other things they're doing (including attempts to fix the colossal latency problems) are putting lipstick on a pig, polishing turds, or perfuming corpses. So no, multi-device output is definitely not the biggest problem with Bluetooth. It wouldn't even make the top 10 list.

      • That and the annoying tendency of every car maker to automatically hijack any Bluetooth connection and force you to hear something. I end up leaving my car on the aux setting with nothing connected.

        • This is a pain. My wife's car is determined enough that when we are driving close to each other, I've had her car pull the Bluetooth audio from my car.

          • I've had her car pull the Bluetooth audio from my car.

            Yes, hijacked bluetooth calls is definitely the biggest problem. Consider when you are paying $2.99 per minute for a phone sex calling service on your cellphone at your house and your spouse's car pulls into the driveway and steals the phone call from you and is suddenly conversing with the phone sex operator... Your bill can quickly balloon beyond what you were intending to pay.

            At least with this new multi-stream bluetooth tech, the conversation can

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by pnutjam ( 523990 )
          I have a Chevy Traverse. GM decided that I can only use the bluetooth for phone calls not as an audio input on the radio (at least not in the base model).

          I bought a bluetooth receiver for $10 [monoprice.com] and connected it to the aux in. It works pretty well and is only a minor PITA vs internal bluetooth.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by mccalli ( 323026 )
        The Tesla implementation is trash though - I have it too, and it's the only bluetooth car I have had that won't show an audio scrub bar or allow me to fast forward and rewind the track. The Tesla also regularly ignores the embedded album art and fetches...well, god knows what.

      • BT is the equivalent of the USB connector. It never works the first time you try, flip it over, it doesn't work, flip it back and suddenly it works.

        • That can easily be solved with USB-C, where you simply have to throw away every USB item you own and buy all new.

          Speaking of which- this won't be compatible with the *old* gear we already have... right?

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      How is something which already has a software work-around the biggest problem with BT audio?

      I would think the latency issue which currently doesn't have a software work-around would be the biggest problem.

      Firstly, dedicated hardware solutions are usually better than software workarounds, secondly, all kinds of reasons you did not think of: https://mobile.slashdot.org/co... [slashdot.org]

    • The new codec (LC3) has lower latency (90% less) and better quality than the current standard codec (SBC). Your turn.

    • Range, latency, reliability, compatibility, security, patent-free high-bitrate.

      These are the things that would be above multicast on my list, as a user. Multicast seems like one that can be done in the lab, though, without getting everybody in the industry to cooperate.

    • Agreed. I see inherent latency issues far more frequently with BT than say, wifi.

      Theoretically it shouldn't be THAT different but IRL applications BT is much laggier which is hell on sound delivery.

    • How is something which already has a software work-around the biggest problem with BT audio?

      I would think the latency issue which currently doesn't have a software work-around would be the biggest problem.

      Latency is not a function of Bluetooth itself but rather of audio codecs. As such it's not a "problem" to be fixed in the Bluetooth standard.

      As for software workarounds, where software is actually the source of the latency, AptX LL already solved the latency issue with sub 40ms latency. It wasn't adopted and not a priority when you can simply delay video feed at the source to keep things in sync, and it's not like Bluetooth audio will ever find its way into professional audio.

      On the flip side what is being

    • I suspect the biggest problem with BT audio is the patent thicket, which means that most combinations of hardware operate with the lowest common denominator codec.

    • This. Makes it intolerable to watch video on my computer - I've given up and plugged my headphones in.

  • Sounds more like new incompatibilites (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ReneR ( 1057034 ) on Tuesday January 07, 2020 @01:02PM (#59595852)
    As the new LE Audio will not be supported by old devices, cards, ... so likely devices needs to implement the current codec stack for backward compatibility. Also this is promoting a new audio codec, so likely another patent afair with no Linux support, intead of just using Opus or whatever. I wonder more if they finally fixed to allow HiFi Streao while using the microphone, ... while at it. Basically the only thing that really bothered me.
  • Windows, can not usually reconnect with devices without prodding it all along the way. The Window 10 Notification widget has to be clicked multiple times to reconnect, if you don't want to bypass it, like I often do. Bluetooth file transfer was ruined in a way that only a single file may be transferred at at time, and not automatically--with paired devices. Microsoft handles the concerns like they do with many things lately--by locking the help forum threads.

    • Is it just windows, or really shitty bluetooth hardware?

      I have two laptops, Asus and Dell, with Skylake chipsets and Intel bluetooth audio. Neither has worked reliably with bluetooth audio at all. I went trolling Amazon looking for a BT USB dongle that would be worth a damn and quite a few had warnings they weren't really great with audio, despite being BT 4.0.

      I think the whole BT pairing model is brain damaged and I wish you could just "subscribe" a pair of headphones to a whole bunch of BT audio sources

  • Even through as many revisions as Bluetooth has gone through, the latency is still too slow for mice, which is why they are hard to find.

  • It would be nice if they offered a high quality audio spec... something that could be played on studio monitors and still give as accurate rendition of the mix being played as if the monitors were plugged into the board.

  • Stereo? (Score:3)

    by infernalC ( 51228 ) <matthew@mellon.google@com> on Tuesday January 07, 2020 @01:17PM (#59595938) Homepage Journal

    Will this mean that I can connect two $8 speakers from Walmart and push left audio to one and the right channel to the other? Please???

  • ... because cameras are not drawing crowds anymore.

  • The battery will last for 20 years?? Awesome! Point: It is still disposable. And it will probably cost more.

  • So are they going to fix the problem where Bluetooth pairing sucks and it forgets its paired periodically and you're left doing long hold ... ok, longer hold ... ok, really long hold ... ok, the computer thinks they're paired but nothing is coming out ... ok, those beeps obviously have some meaning, too bad nobody documented it.

    Sorry, sorry, I joke. The real problem with Bluetooth is that the only way you can make something work is by experimenting until it works and then freezing everything and shipping.

  • They have invented a way to get audio content distributed to multiple end-points wirelessly?! Wow! Welcome to 2020! It is, indeed, the future!

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • It's kind of mind boggling, and I don't understand it. My only guess was that point-point only was considered an acceptable limitation with the computing power available at development, probably tied to encryption or something.

        Call me nuts, but I also think it's stupid you can't pair a single pair of headphones to simultaneously play audio from multiple transmitters at once.

        Imagine having a pair of headphones you could pair with your laptop, your phone and whatever else and hear all the audio simultaneousl

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by kriston ( 7886 )

      BlueTooth L2CAP has had multicast since just about the beginning. Whether your devices will support it is an entirely different matter.

  • According to TFA, this will require new hardware, so your existing device won't be able to do it. Just sayin'.

  • As far as I know dual audio has been available for a while. My old Samsung Galaxy S8+ could do it. My current Note 10 can also do it. Although I remember a colleague of mine with an iPhone couldn't do it even though the device said it supported Bluetooth 5.0 I assumed this was just Apple being Apple again.
  • Funny, the article that claims Bluetooth's biggest problems are about to be fixed makes no message of the way Bluetooth has been a total security liability thus far. I guess the author doesn't consider enduser security to be an essential feature of a wireless networking technology.
    • The article lost its credibility with this last sentence from the first paragraph "Multi-Stream Audio will solve that, as it will allow a single device, such as a smartphone, to stream flawlessly synced audio to multiple audio devices at the same time. " Anytime they throw the word flawlessly around you know they are lying.

  • Amazing! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Billy the Mountain ( 225541 ) on Tuesday January 07, 2020 @02:11PM (#59596166) Journal
    Pretty soon, why, I imagine that Bluetooth will work almost as well as that wire used to!

    • Pretty soon, why, I imagine that Bluetooth will work almost as well as that wire used to!

      Yes along with none of the downsides of wired systems which you conveniently ignore.

      I'll get off your lawn now gramps.

  • But hey, Bluetooth= Bored, Lonely, Undesirable Engineers Took One Over The Head.

  • So, in other words: biggest problem not solved. (Score:3)

    by ewhenn ( 647989 ) on Tuesday January 07, 2020 @03:11PM (#59596396)
    The biggest problem with BT audio isn't, "I can't listen to it on multiple devices at once", the biggest problem is bandwidth for uncompressed audio.
    • agreed, bandwidth is so poor, is worthless for anything that is not compressed audio or really small protocols
  • A welcome improvement. BT not perfect but wireless offers convenience and BT presumably less power than wifi or cellular. Increase power always syncing drains devices. Though new hardware will take a while before use it more broadly. For a DAP and headgear ok do not need so much security but for more critical mobiles well that is another question.

  • The biggest problem with Bluetooth, are cheap chinese companies that don't include the ability to re-pair to new devices.

  • biggest problems with Bluetooth (audio) (Score:3)

    by fred6666 ( 4718031 ) on Tuesday January 07, 2020 @04:10PM (#59596622)

    The biggest problems that I encounter with bluetooth is not some advanced functionality such as streaming to multiple device, but be able to do the basis right.

    -My car has bluetooth. Yet, it can takes a few minutes before my phone connect to it and start playing music. Why would that process ever take more than 5 seconds is beyond me.

    -My mother still has 0 chances of being able to pair her new phone to her car. It's still too complicated. She is perfectly able to do it with a 3.5mm cable though.
    Also, I can't do the pairing for her while she drives the car. The car must be stopped. How idiot is that? Don't they know more than one person can be in a car at the same time?

    -I had a lenovo bluetooth mouse on my lenovo laptop. Every now and then, the mouse would stop working until I reboot the PC. Same with a Microsoft bluetooth mouse. I gave up. The bluetooth controller simply disappear from the device manager and I haven't found any fix. High end laptop with Intel bluetooth.

  • Now I can accidentally stream the soundtrack of my, er, *entertainment* to not only my earbuds but also to the BT speaker I accidentally left on upstairs! Whoo hoo!

  • They will probably be sued by Sonos, too.

    https://yro.slashdot.org/story... [slashdot.org]

  • Music I buy is licensed to me for my personal use, not broadcasting or streaming to others.
  • Multicast Bluetooth audio has been around for several years. The new LE Audio does not improve audio quality. Latency is on-par with other SBC-based CODECs. The only big news is that the new CODEC is lower-MIPS and runs on the lighter-weight LE stack, so you can use a lot lower CPU power to decode the audio stream.

  • If I understand what TFS is talking about, this is already available on devices running iOS 13:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

  • Does this mean that one will be able to use simple readily-available bluetooth earbuds to 'synchronize' a band of people playing instruments with a shared click track? As far as I understand, currently it is quite tricky to do that with digital audio.
  • "Multi-Stream Audio will solve that, as it will allow a single device, such as a smartphone, to stream flawlessly synced audio to multiple audio devices at the same time." Multiple streams = multiple RF signals. Anyone who has used a Software-defined radio [onesdr.com] to visualize the ISM band knows that it's highly congested. I already have faced issues with BT streaming in the presence of Wi-Fi.
  • Will this allow two simultaneous users to the same audio stream?

  • A preview from the future, sort of - one iPhone can play audio on two pairs of AirPods. The AirPods probably handle the streaming among themselves, with one of them receiving the BT only.

  • Bluetooth LE Audio will also make sharing a music stream with others possible. Users should be able to easily share audio from their smartphone with friends, as multiple sets of wireless headphones can be connected to a single source device at once, and each should receive the exact same audio stream in perfect sync with all the others.

    What will the RIAA say about this?
    Sounds like this could be considered to being like distributing copyrighted material.
    And, technically, that is pirating.

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