Google To Shift Pixel Smartphone Production From China To Vietnam (nikkei.com) 78
According to Nikkei Asian Review, Google is shifting production of its Pixel smartphone from China to Vietnam "as it seeks to build a low-cost supply chain in Southeast Asia that will serve as a springboard for its growing hardware ambitions." From the report: Working with a partner, Google started work this summer to convert an old Nokia factory in the northern Vietnamese province of Bac Ninh to handle production of Pixel phones, two people familiar with the company's plans said. This is the same province where Samsung developed its smartphone supply chain a decade ago, so Google will have access to an experienced workforce.
The push to develop a Vietnamese production base reflects the twin pressures of higher Chinese labor costs and the spiraling tariffs resulting from the trade war between Washington and Beijing. The U.S. internet giant intends to eventually move production of most of its American-bound hardware outside of China, including Pixel phones and its popular smart speaker, Google Home, according to the sources. Under current plans, Google will shift some production of the Pixel 3A phone from China to Vietnam before the end of this year, the people said. For its smart speakers, some production is likely to be moved to Thailand, sources said. But the company's new product development and initial production for its hardware lineup will still be in China, they said. "Google are likely to keep some activities inside China. The U.S. company knows that if it is going to be serious about making hardware, it could never give up the massive Chinese market," one of the sources said. "However, they also understand that, due to rising costs and the macro-environment, they need to have production outside China for the long term in order to support their hardware manufacturing."
The push to develop a Vietnamese production base reflects the twin pressures of higher Chinese labor costs and the spiraling tariffs resulting from the trade war between Washington and Beijing. The U.S. internet giant intends to eventually move production of most of its American-bound hardware outside of China, including Pixel phones and its popular smart speaker, Google Home, according to the sources. Under current plans, Google will shift some production of the Pixel 3A phone from China to Vietnam before the end of this year, the people said. For its smart speakers, some production is likely to be moved to Thailand, sources said. But the company's new product development and initial production for its hardware lineup will still be in China, they said. "Google are likely to keep some activities inside China. The U.S. company knows that if it is going to be serious about making hardware, it could never give up the massive Chinese market," one of the sources said. "However, they also understand that, due to rising costs and the macro-environment, they need to have production outside China for the long term in order to support their hardware manufacturing."
MVGA! (Score:1)
Congratulations, Oh Tinted One, you've Made Vietnam Great Again!
Re:MVGA! (Score:4, Insightful)
As long as it is at the expense of China's greatness, it is a good development indeed.
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Why is hurting China, sometimes even at the expense of our own country, seen as such a "victory"?
There are trade issues we need to work out with them, but we should not be so arrogant as to think we can beat it out of them somehow and think we'll only come out with bruised knuckles.
China is reaching out all over the world while Trump is isolating the US. China won't defeat us with military might. They'll defeat us economically, but Trump will be dead by then and hopefully it will take long enough that I wi
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...They'll defeat us economically
This will be our own fault, and has little to do with Donald Trump. It's happening because during the same time it took California to plan a single high-speed rail line, spend $77 billion on it, and build nothing as lawyers bickered over the putative rights of the insanely oversensitive, China networked its entire country with the same design of bullet train.
Here is another project that should be moved to the Tibetan Plateau so that it can finally get built:
https://www.tmt.org/ [tmt.org]
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Why is hurting China a priority? Ask the Uighurs. They might know.
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China won't defeat us with military might.
All the ideas about a war is just bollocks.
China has enough nukes to destroy the whole earth, just like "Russia" and the USA.
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Because China is rapidly moving from a mere "rival" to an outright enemy.
You may be screaming about the evil hitler Trump, but Chinese regime is much worse on just about any issue there is — from the made-up pseudo problems of "homophobia", to racism [researchgate.net], supporting horrible regimes [visiontimes.com], murderous dissent-suppression inside [wikipedia.org], and military aggression outside (past [wikipedia.org] and present [nationalinterest.org]).
If you have more questions, I'll be her
Better Vietnam than China (Score:4, Insightful)
Congratulations, Oh Tinted One, you've Made Vietnam Great Again!
While a dollar spent in the US would be best, a dollar spent in Vietnam is far far better than a dollar spent in China. Its about time Google and other US companies stopped financing China's military expansion and bulling in the region, colonial like actives in Africa, etc.
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Hmm, so if we dislike all the military spending and bulling that the US does, we should try to avoid doing business with Americans?
I imagine you might argue that the average American is not responsible for the actions of their government in that respect, but actually since you have a democracy you are more directly responsible than the average Chinese is.
Perhaps you want to reconsider this logic.
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Give the little commies a chance, not the 1% commies.
Traitorous? (Score:4, Insightful)
Why are all these Western mega corporations so keen on enriching communist dictatorships that have the public ideology of being our blood enemies?
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But they're not abiding by the profit ideology. At best, it's a short sighted version of the ideology that has little chance of long term survivability. If communism wins, how much profit will they have? Most likely, if communism wins, those execs will be hanging from their necks.
Re: Traitorous? (Score:2)
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Anyone that has observed or studies attempts at communism, will know that human nature prohibits any attempt at communism. The ideology seems all nice and everything, but it just can't be implemented at any scale without it devolving into some sort of tyranny.
All this means is that people who worship the almighty dollar and have figured this out, know that communism ultimately devolves into a corrupt and unorganised rabble, key word is corrupt though, as that means anything and everything is for sale, to th
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Anyone that has observed or studies attempts at communism, will know that human nature prohibits any attempt at communism. The ideology seems all nice and everything, but it just can't be implemented at any scale without it devolving into some sort of tyranny.
That is a pretty stupid analyzis. Many cultures live communism, e.g. Japan till the USA destroyed the banking system around 1985. Small cultures like Amazon tribes.
And the tyrannies to refer to are all "revolutions" around WWI and WWII where the wrong
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Neither China nor Vietnam are communist.
The corps or the consumers driving the corps? (Score:4, Interesting)
Because those western mega corporations have the public ideology of profit maximization?
Yes and no. Its actually because those profit maximizing companies did ***what consumers told them to do***, that is produce at the lowest possible costs with little to no consideration given to anything else. Consumer drove off shoring and consumers continue to support offshoring. If offshoring is to reversed it will take a change in consumer behavior, namely the consumer showing a preference for made in US products.
In short, when you buy a foreign made product your are rewarding offshoring. Don't bitch about offshoring in that case because you are part if the root cause, not the corporations, not the CEOs. They follow the consumer behavior.
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True, consumers usually don't think much about where the product is made, but they rarely have a choice.
They have more choices than they are generally aware of. Online shopping makes US goods even easier to find and obtain.
Plus the current situation does not change the history of how we got here. Does not change who is largely to blame, the US consumers. We did this to ourselves.
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In short, when you buy a foreign made product your are rewarding offshoring. Don't bitch about offshoring in that case because you are part if the root cause, not the corporations, not the CEOs.
I think offshoring is marvelous, myself. It's the way that capitalism spreads to the saddest and most destitute corners of the world, lifting large swathes of humanity out of poverty. Note that the reason companies are shifting production out of China is that China's labor costs have risen, which means that people in China now have the ability to demand and receive higher pay. The same will happen in Vietnam and Thailand, so industry will move again.
I do have concerns about sending industry and the ass
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It's the way that capitalism spreads to the saddest and most destitute corners of the world, lifting large swathes of humanity out of poverty.
Oh, I should also have mentioned that reducing poverty is also the best way to reduce population growth. Poor people need lots of kids, partly as insurance because they can't have confidence their children will survive to adulthood, and partly for labor. As they get wealthier, their lives get safer, they get access to better healthcare and to education, and parents tend to have fewer children and invest more into them. Education of women is particularly effective.
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... because capital will always seek the lowest cost and highest profit ...
Yet the system is driven by the consumer. A preference for "local" production will translate into sales, which will translate into increased profits. Lowering costs does nothing if you don't get the sales. Consumer behavior is king.
Yes, but the "free" market requires an "open" market. No artificial barriers for the consumers.
Consumers could provide the inputs by being selective about what they'll buy, but that doesn't work.
Absolutely mistaken. Offshoring was driven by consumer preferences, namely consumers not caring about anything other than price, rewarding the companies offshoring. If US consumers had
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The only reliable course-maker in consumer choice is the state. Very nearly all countries are unable to make their sellers visibly show the country of origin of anything that's sold.
Retailers take up that chore usually only with products associated with vices: smoking implements, alcohol and other like libat
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Consumers were happy to pay high prices for phones. People were shocked at how expensive the iPhone was, but it sold really well.
It was the manufacturer's decision to pocket more profit, rather than paying a bit more for manufacturing.
German manufacturers pay decent wages and manufacture domestically. They also charge higher prices. Again consumers are willing to pay that, not least because they see "made in Germany" as a mark of quality. Apple famously wrote "designed in California" on the box, perhaps to
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German manufacturers pay decent wages and manufacture domestically. They also charge higher prices. Again consumers are willing to pay that, not least because they see "made in Germany" as a mark of quality.
The German consumer's presence for a "local" product (Germany, then EU, ...) is a significant part of their economic success. It goes beyond quality. They understand the social and economic benefits, the multiplier effect on their society. The societal benefit is *part* of the decision making process, a part sorely lacking in the US.
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Germany experts more by value than China. In fact they export a lot TO China.
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The German consumer's presence for a "local" product (Germany, then EU, ...) is a significant part of their economic success. It goes beyond quality. They understand the social and economic benefits, the multiplier effect on their society. The societal benefit is *part* of the decision making process, a part sorely lacking in the US.
In the USA we have been sold the opposite concept: That globalization is a great thing. That by buying cheap shit made in overseas sweatshops we are helping to improve the quality of life in these lands. We have been told that anything else is racist, nationalistic, and evil.
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The problem is that in many cases, a product is sourced from materials produced or gathered in different countries and assembled in yet another country. If any one step occurs locally, the packaging will point that out as a selling point. This makes consumers trust the "made/sourced locally" labels a lot less (and rightfully so), which in turn makes it difficult to advertise this effectively even if EVERYTHING is sourced and assembled locally.
Various states have strict laws regarding Made in USA type stickers. California for example is quite militant. The flashlight manufacturer MagLite had that problem, one rubber o-ring was outsourced so they couldn't do it. They couldn't have separate packing for California and other more tolerant states. If a distributor shipped non-CA packaging to CA MagLite would have been fined. Which leads to the Assembled in USA stickers.
Assembled in the USA is still better for the US economy than assembled elsewhere
Re: The corps or the consumers driving the corps? (Score:1)
You are both correct. People do what they naturally doâ"maximize their purchasing power through finding cheaper goods. Corporations also do what they naturally doâ"try to maximize profit and minimize cost. Thus the drive to find cheaper labor, which they discovered overseas (after life in the US had improved to the point of comfortable wages).
I believe the problem lies in the drive to acquire more investors, for which you need to show a strong profit. In the age of CNN and MSNBC, stock prices are
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You are both correct. People do what they naturally doâ"maximize their purchasing power through finding cheaper goods. Corporations also do what they naturally doâ"try to maximize profit and minimize cost. Thus the drive to find cheaper labor, which they discovered overseas (after life in the US had improved to the point of comfortable wages).
That overseas labor only worked out because US consumers tolerated it. The point I am trying to make is that consumers decided on such practices through their choices. If the first manufactures to move jobs overseas saw their sales drop they would have reversed course. Outsourcing only works when consumers permit it.
Consumers thinks their individual choice will make no difference. They need to understand the tragedy of the commons. Again, other countries do a better job at this and their economy and soci
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That overseas labor only worked out because US consumers tolerated it.
The consumers never knew, because they were never taught or trained to look at the sticker. They buy an Apple product, a Dell product, a ThinkPad, a computer with Windows, a pen, a pencil, the list goes on and on. The "Made/Assembled in ..." part is always in small print, never on the price sticker, and stores do not separate products by countries of origin, but by type of product.
With regard to electronics with screens, no operating system ever displays a device's country of origin during startup.
There was no shortage of "Save A Job, Buy American" bumper stickers. But tragedy of the commons, "my one little purchase won't save anyone's job so I might as well save a buck."
It cou
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That overseas labor only worked out because US consumers tolerated it.
The consumers never knew, because they were never taught or trained to look at the sticker.
Untrue. In the 1970s as the trend kept growing it was a news item, there was controversy, and more personal evidence of knowledge as in the bumper sticker I mentioned. Then in the 1980s it was a huge part of Ross Perot's 3rd party Presidential campaign. Again it was part of the national debate. The sticker was partly an outcome of these old debates. It was not a lack of knowledge regarding the issue, people simply did not care.
There was no shortage of "Save A Job, Buy American" bumper stickers. But tragedy of the commons, "my one little purchase won't save anyone's job so I might as well save a buck."
It could rather be a sign of most America not being as prosperous as it should or could be, because people aren't wealthy enough to care about the place of origin.
That hypothesis is based on an effect that was to a large degree the result of t
Profit (Score:2)
Re:Traitorous? (Score:4, Insightful)
The China method seems to work better. The Cuba method didn't really change anything with Cuba (who blamed us for their economic problems instead of their communist government - as if they were entitled to trade with someone who didn't want to trade with them). Neither method seem effective at displacing the communist government. Unless you're willing to invade and conquer, real change has to come from within, as it did with the Soviet Union and East Germany.
The idea behind the China method is that communism, like all dictatorships, is a top-down control structure. If you empower the people at the bottom via free trade and economic opportunity, you give them more power, making it more difficult for those at the top to retain control.
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Trade has just given it the funds needed to stay Communist.
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I think you are confusing the term Communism and Dictatorship.
China has not a trace left of Communism, but it is still a Dictatorship.
These days they tend more toward the fascist brand of dictatorship.
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Switching from communist dicatorship to fascist dictatorship is not an improvement. In fact, it makes China far more dangerous to the world.
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This is fundamentally untrue. In fact theres very little about china that is recognizably communist.
It's authoritarian. But thats not the same thing as 'communist' at all.
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Have you been to China? There is a huge amount of capitalism, and very little communism. If you want a car, you buy a car - the government isn't going to give you one because you need it.
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1960s/70s Nixon/Kissenger policy ... fail (Score:3)
Practice free trade with the communist dictatorship, subverting their ideals with the temptation of cold hard cash from capitalism. We did that with China.The China method seems to work better.
Nope, not at all. The 1960s/70s idea of Nixon/Kissenger that you state (liberalism through engagement) died at Tiananmen Square. The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) is in absolute control. Single party, authoritarian, etc. The fact that they let a few cronies get rich does not change the fact that these cronies are absolutely subservient to the CCP. If anything they are using capitalism to fund their military modernization and expansion, their territorial ambitions in the region, their neocolonial activities
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If anything they are using capitalism to fund their military modernization and expansion, their territorial ambitions in the region, their neocolonial activities in Africa, ... The CCP has not been changed by western engagement.
From your description it sounds like they started imitating western countries, particularly the United States.
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If anything they are using capitalism to fund their military modernization and expansion, their territorial ambitions in the region, their neocolonial activities in Africa, ... The CCP has not been changed by western engagement.
From your description it sounds like they started imitating western countries, particularly the United States.
Not really. Our military modernization and expansion came from WW2. That continued modernization was self funded, while at the same time we helped feed a devastated Europe and helped them rebuild with the Marshal plan. While we have definitely made mistakes (ex Latin America) our behavior pales in comparison to Chinese neocolonialism.
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As I recall America stole a lot of the technology that powered that boom from Europe. Some from Germany of course, but also from its allies. The UK gave it assistance with the atomic bomb and figured out all the stuff necessary for a supersonic flight, and then the US reneged on its agreement to share in return.
Re:Traitorous? (Score:4, Interesting)
There are only two choices here.
Are there? I'm pretty sure we have more choices.
Boycott and economically isolate the communist dictatorship. We did that with Cuba.
We did that also with North Korea. And Iran. And I'm sure there are more that aren't coming to mind right now.
Practice free trade with the communist dictatorship, subverting their ideals with the temptation of cold hard cash from capitalism. We did that with China.
China has been an economic and military bully for a very long time. We should not be doing trade with a nation like this, allowing them to continue to be a threat to us and enriching their oligarchy. We should isolate them like North Korea and Iran. When they learn to play nice then we can trade with them again.
Not trading with China will hurt for a little bit but the markets will adjust. We have been shipping lots of jobs over to China that we could do here. We should be able to produce everything we need in the USA with our large population and ample natural resources. And we should be able to do so without spreading polluted air all the way over the ocean like China is now.
The only way we can lose this trade war is if people in the USA get impatient. Americans need to stand up for themselves on this because China has been holding us as economic hostages for far too long. This can only end in our favor if we rebuild the manufacturing and mining we let China take from us with bad deals for so long.
China has been building a worldwide empire for themselves with their economic manipulations. They have not been quiet about this either. They've been building a modern air force and navy from the profits made with this economic influence. We should not deal with them as this will cut off their industrial capacity to build a military that could threaten us in the future. We need to stand up for Taiwan and Hong Kong as this is where Communist China is almost certain to first bring force to bear in asserting its authority.
If they want a peaceful relationship with the USA then they need to first establish a peaceful relationship with its own people.
As for those other choices we have the ability to take military action. It should create an exciting afternoon. Well, maybe a weekend.
Re: Traitorous? (Score:1)
You speak as if âoeweâ are one entity. Perhaps you mean âoeweâ the US government, but being that we are not a communist nation, the government doesnâ(TM)t have a say in where corporations wheel and deal. Or perhaps you mean âoeweâ
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China has been an economic and military bully for a very long time.
By what measure? What neighbouring countries have they invaded in the last 30 years? Which proxy wars have they fought? What trade agreements or arms treaties have they subverted, ignored or outright breached? Yes they bully smaller neighbours to some extent, but more so than the US? Or Russia? It's very hard to draw a line in the sand and say "we won't trade with them because of X", when you trade with several other countries that also do X, or your country does X as well.
China has been building a worldwide empire for themselves with their economic manipulations. They have not been quiet about this either. They've been building a modern air force and navy from the profits made with this economic influence.
Unlike the US?
It's also disingenuo
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(who blamed us for their economic problems instead of their communist government - as if they were entitled to trade with someone who didn't want to trade with them)
Whom else should they blame? Obviously a countries economic problems are based on the trade embargo/boycott and not on other things.
Otherwise all "communist" countries had suffered the same problems Cuba did, like East Germany, Romaia etc. : but they did not.
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Otherwise all "communist" countries had suffered the same problems Cuba did, like East Germany, RomaNia etc. : but they did not.
They actually did: the Soviet Union, the Soviet-controlled Poland, etc. There were shortages of many things. Even chewing gum was once banned.
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The idea behind the China method is that communism, like all dictatorships, ...
WTF how stupid are you?
Communism has nothing to do with dictatorship.
Yes, Russia, China and a few other countries where a) communist and b) dictatorships. But neither does a) imply b) nor does b) imply a).
Most dictatorships where capitalist, go figure, Chile, Argentinia, old Rome, Sparta
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Why are all these Western mega corporations so keen on enriching communist dictatorships that have the public ideology of being our blood enemies?
Neither Vietnam nor China is communist in practice.
China is a geopolitical rival of America, but Vietnam is not. Vietnam is a defacto ally.
You should get a passport and go visit Vietnam. There is no place where Americans are more welcome. 80 million people will be happy to see you.
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Neither China nor Vietnam consider the United states an enemy.
Vietnam was always pro-american until dumb postwar politics meant the US had to back the french claim over the domestic claim (oh but the Soviets WHERE happy to back the domestic claim to sovereignty)
And China hasn't been hostile since Nixon.
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"And China hasn't been hostile since Nixon."
I disagree. China has been increasingly hostile since Nixon.
And not just with the US.
I know at least once Chinese aircraft have acted hostile with American recon aircraft.
The aircraft was disassembled and the flight recorder retained. The aircrew were detained from April 1, 2001 until April 11, 2001.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
They have started using their economic power to advance claims over islands and sea bed that are closer to counter claimants than to
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Your post made pretty clear that China is not hostile to the USA.
The aircraft in question was an american aircraft, recon aircraft, violating Chinese airspace. OOoops
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I disagree, I think my post made it clear that China is hostile to the USA and many others.
The American Recon aircraft, as I understand it, was not violating Chinese airspace.
It was close to Hainan, but only landed there due to the collision with the fighter China dispatched to intercept it.
( and dispatching fighters to intercept near your airspace is no bad thing. But what orders did that pilot have to make such a thing happen )
And lets play devils advocate for a moment, if the aircraft *was* violating Ch
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Does Vietnam seriously consider the US their "blood enemy"? Doesn't seem that way, despite your shared history.
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They are addicted to cheap labor and lax environmental policies.
If China was panicking a little before... (Score:1)
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they probably are now. Maybe Trump isn't as dumb as he seems.
Not really. Manufacturing has been moving from China to Vietnam for a while now. Vietnam can only take so much manufacturing from China simply because China is so much bigger. Most of the components will probably still come from China, this is most likely for final assembly only.
Where next? (Score:2)
Because you can't exploit Vietnamese for eternity either.....
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Thailand, Vietnam, Japan, South Korea.
Parts of the EU and Latin America are also exporting more to the USA.
Communist China was not the only nation with low cost workers. Skilled workers.
The rest of the world is ready for investment and trade.
No need to keep on supporting Communist China.
Going from one commie to another commie (Score:2)
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Vietnam understands what Communist China is doing around and to Vietnam again.
Re: Going from one commie to another commie (Score:2)
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Pfft. Look up how much money the US threw at japan and germany after WW2 (while meanwhile screwing their former "allies" Britain for every penny of the war loans they could get causing the UK to be on rationing until the mid 50s).
Camera siêu nh (Score:1)