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Android Businesses Sony

Sony and LG Continue To Struggle To Sell Smartphones (androidpolice.com) 76

Posted by msmash from the struggle-is-real dept.
In news that will shock absolutely nobody, LG and Sony continue to struggle when it comes to selling smartphones. An anonymous reader shares a report: Despite posting record second-quarter and first-half revenues and operating profit totaling $559.4 million -- largely due to strong home appliance sales -- LG's Mobile Communications division continues to underperform. Sales of $1.38 billion equate to a 21.3% drop compared with the same period last year, although it is an increase of 6.8% over the previous quarter. The company blames the usual factors for these results: stagnant demand across the whole sector and "continued aggressive pricing by Chinese brands." Further improvement is expected in Q3 with new products coming to market and greater demand for 5G products, apparently. It's a similar story over at Sony, whose sales in the Electronics Products & Solutions division that smartphones are now a part of reached $776 million, marking a 15% decrease year-on-year. The Japanese company attributes the poor performance to a drop shipments of not just smartphones, but also televisions and digital cameras, two areas that Sony usually does better in.
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Sony and LG Continue To Struggle To Sell Smartphones More

Sony and LG Continue To Struggle To Sell Smartphones

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  • More of the same? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    "continued aggressive pricing by Chinese brands." Chinese crap has always been cheap and with unexpected pitfalls after purchase, why is this notable?

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Vaibhav Dalvi ( 5174047 )
      Before Xiaomi, chinese ODM's usually partnered with local players and provided rebranded generic phones. These had quite a lot quality issues. Here in India, some years back there were brands like Micromax/Xolo/Lava etc that used to cater to this space of cheap androids. And we used to hear terrible stories about their products. That meant people went for mostly Samsung. That meant you often got a device with lesser specs but more reliability(as compared to micromax etc :) ). Then xiaomi entered the space a

  • the wheel turns (Score:5, Insightful)

    by crgrace ( 220738 ) on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @04:34PM (#59014406)

    This is the consumer technology wheel turning. Something is innovated in the USA, gets cost-reduced with improved reliability in Japan (and lately South Korea as well), and then gets commoditized at minimum cost in China.

    Happened with radios, happened with TVs, happened with VCRs, then DVDs and home appliances, and now its happening with cell phones.

    The US has been doing better with Semiconductors simply because the innovation cycle is short enough it short circuits the consumer technology wheel.

    I think Apple is an outlier here (in smartphones) because they have managed to re-brand them as luxury goods.

    • Even the Semiconductor industry is going that way. With the exception of the highest end chips, most low end chips are fabricated in China.

      You can build a computer today using only cheap off the shelf parts from China with no meaningful brand names of any kind.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by crgrace ( 220738 )

        True. However, like you said, there still is a semiconductor industry in the US but there isn't much of the other consumer electronics (besides a few companies that front for Chinese manufacturers).

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      The original iPhone used a Samsung processor, British GPU, Japanese and Korean screens, Japanese camera...

      Sony phones aren't cheap and LG has its expensive flagships too... The main problem they both have is lack of compelling features. Sony tried to tie their phones into the rest of their products, but it just wasn't that interesting. A lot of the stuff they did never left Japan either, not being popular enough to warrant it.

      LG has made some solid phones, but early software issues, mediocre cameras and jus

  • Here's the cause in a nutshell... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    1) Saturated market. Feature-rich phones have finally hit a point where users are satisfied enough with their older acquisitions that they are not pushing to upgrade. It was bound to happen as new features aren't driving new phone sales, and nothing will change until we see a larger rollout of 5G wireless to a larger population of the country, and then only for those who need more bandwidth.

    2) The market has gotten sensitive to the cost of continual upgrade, thus fewer units are being sold.

    • 2) The market has gotten sensitive to the cost of continual upgrade, thus fewer units are being sold.

      If true, that would be the worst possible news for Apple, which has considerably more to lose.

      • ...the worst possible news for Apple...

        I don't see how it can be anything other than bad news for Apple. They have done really well selling expensive phones, but there is a point where good enough is good enough for most people, and I think we're there now.

        • ...the worst possible news for Apple...

          I don't see how it can be anything other than bad news for Apple. They have done really well selling expensive phones, but there is a point where good enough is good enough for most people, and I think we're there now.

          I don't think you understand how status symbols work. Apple don't sell phones, they sell "look at my iWhatever, I'm better than you"

          Which is why their phones are actually getting more expensive (for not much extra)

          • I don't think you understand how status symbols work. Apple don't sell phones, they sell "look at my iWhatever, I'm better than you"

            Which is why their phones are actually getting more expensive (for not much extra)

            That was true in 2001 with the first iPods, and it was true in 2007 with the first, but it's simply not true in 2019. Nobody is going to be impressed that you have an iPhone.

            • Nobody is going to be impressed that you have an iPhone.

              Quite the contrary, it makes you look like a brand obsessed dick.

  • I just switched from LG to Samsung (Score:3)

    by RickyShade ( 5419186 ) on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @04:40PM (#59014462)

    Simply put, LG just isn't innovating and pushing the boundaries like Samsung is. Samsung's features are incredible compared to LG's mostly-vanilla phones. LG also promised faster updates with their one of a kind world-class "software update center" and I have joined the group of people who think they were completely BSing about that because they still took an impossible amount of time to bring Pie to their devices. No more LG for me, at least for now.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      Given the profits are going to Apple and Samsung, the conclusion is basically Samsung and Apple have control of the critical components of the stack - the SoC powering it all. Samsung has Exynos, Apple has their own processor. The modem part is mostly generic - pretty much they all use Qualcomm whether they like it or not. If you're a third party smartphone maker like Nokia, LG, Sony, etc, you're buying SoCs from either MediaTek or Qualcomm, and all having similar features.

      Sony ought to have some of the bes

    • Bingo. Samsung makes people feel like their phones are worthwhile upgrades, Apple makes people feel like their phones are worthwhile status symbols, LG makes people feel like they're just not worth it.

      Samsung phones sell well because they give people what they want. Powerful responsive phones with good screens for a price they're willing to pay. That they include high demand features like IP## for water resistance is icing on the cake for some, and mission critical for many. People aren't willing to tolerat

  • Love and Hate relationship with LG. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by JoeyRox ( 2711699 ) on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @04:41PM (#59014468)
    I've always loved LG phones - the ergonomics, their light but useful Android customizations, wide-angle cameras, advanced audio features. But their designs have been plagued with issues. Boot loop on the G3, wonky and unreliable GPS on the G5. And the company handled those issues terribly in terms of admitting fault and servicing the design/manufacturing defects out of warranty.

    Still rocking a V20 though :)

    • I also had a G5, as well as G Watch Sport. They're reverting to their old Late-80's GoldStar quality. Remember. LG stands for Lucky Goldstar.

      This was a brand that at one point Walmart stopped selling because their TVs were prone to early death because of shoddy workmanship and cheaper than cheap components. You had to go to one of the REALLY cheap stores like Zayre's if you wanted to by GoldStar for some insane reason.

      They did a lot around 20 years ago to rehabilitate their brand. Everything I've seen in th

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I had a G4 for my previous phone; it still works just fine (we unlocked it and use it with locally-bought SIM cards when we go abroad). I liked their take on customized Android, it had a really nice camera on it (it can even shoot in RAW mode, outputting in Adobe DNG format, which is a nice touch), a microSD card slot for expanded storage, a 3.5mm headphone jack, *and* the fact that I could actually take the back off the phone and swap the battery myself (and that battery was of decent capacity, too).

      My cu

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by SIGBUS ( 8236 )

      Indeed. I suffered through the G Stylo, which, in spite of its wonderful camera, fell horribly short in GPS performance due to its silly antenna setup. They fixed that issue with the Stylo 2, but took away the laser-focused camera (though the camera is still quite good), the battery life is great and overall I'm quite happy with the Stylo 2. I'm still running it even though it's approaching three years old.

      I think some of the battery life comes from it using a basic 400-series SOC instead of something more

    • LG is generally incompetent. Everything I've ever owned that they've made has failed, including optical drives, and my Nexus 4.

      Sony is generally a bunch of assholes, except that they are one of the few Android handset manufacturers who still have unlockable bootloaders, so I'd be sad if they left the market. Not so sad about it that I would ever actually buy one of their phones, though.

  • Oh, Competition Markets, bless your heart. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by hiroshimarrow ( 5489734 ) on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @04:48PM (#59014538)

    A manufacturer says aggressive pricing, where the market sees competitive pricing. A thing can only cost $1000 when a large amount of people will pay that much for it. When the large amount of people stop wanting to pay that much, they will go with alternatives that don't cost so much.

    Give it a reason to cost $1000 that is drastic enough, and you can charge that much again. Making itsy-bitsy improvements or features nobody asked for (dammit, Bixby!) and touting them like they are big isn't gonna cut it. Heck, they could even make old new again by having replaceable batteries and that might be a big enough deal for some people. I miss having my spare battery that I could just swap out and keep going another 13 or so hours... I wouldn't pay $1000 for it, though.

  • There has been talk of "peak smartphone" having occurred for a while now.

  • LG phone custom overlays (Score:5, Informative)

    by digitect ( 217483 ) <(digitect) (at) (dancingpaper.com)> on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @05:22PM (#59014706)

    I have an LG V35ThinQ and could not be more disappointed with it. LG customizes the OS and butchers standard Android--things like not being able to adjust the volume with the hardware buttons without unlocking the screen and disabling the customized do-not-disturb interval. The power button is on the back (unless you enable the double-tap to turn on). The speaker is a sad little device pointing out the bottom that you can barely hear even at 75% unless you cup your hand around the bottom to direct the sound toward the front. AND THEY'VE NEVER UPDATED ANDROID! Still 8.1.1.

    I upgraded from an LG to a Nexus 5 in 2013 and promised myself I'd never own another LG. But it was offered for Google Fi cheap and I wanted a headphone jack.

    I'm not surprised they're struggling. They (and their compatriot, Samsung) continue to tweak and develop based on flash and whim rather than what people need.

    • Correction: Still Android 8.0.0.
    • I have a V35 ThinQ as well. I like the phone for the most part, but I too find it terribly disappointing that they haven't updated the OS. I tried calling Google Fi (my provider) and also LG and they both blame each other for the lack of an update. LG will need better support and updates if they want to sell more phones.

    • I have an LG V35ThinQ and could not be more disappointed with it. LG customizes the OS and butchers standard Android--things like not being able to adjust the volume with the hardware buttons without unlocking the screen and disabling the customized do-not-disturb interval. The power button is on the back (unless you enable the double-tap to turn on). The speaker is a sad little device pointing out the bottom that you can barely hear even at 75% unless you cup your hand around the bottom to direct the sound toward the front. AND THEY'VE NEVER UPDATED ANDROID! Still 8.1.1.

      I upgraded from an LG to a Nexus 5 in 2013 and promised myself I'd never own another LG. But it was offered for Google Fi cheap and I wanted a headphone jack.

      I'm not surprised they're struggling. They (and their compatriot, Samsung) continue to tweak and develop based on flash and whim rather than what people need.

      My favorite search engine says the Pie update is available since april in Korea and June for AT&T in the US: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=LG+V... [duckduckgo.com]

    • OS updates are LG's greatest weakness. That said, there is a very good chance that your phone will receive an update to Android Pie in August.

      LGs phones have vastly improved. Every phone will have a couple of annoyances for the user, it's probably inescapable.

    • I upgraded from an LG to a Nexus 5 in 2013 and promised myself I'd never own another LG.

      Ironically, the Nexus 5 was made for Google by LG. (To be fair, it did get quick updates due to being a Nexus phone.)

      My current phone is a Motorola. I'm not gonna buy another one again because they reneged on their promise for 2 years of updates. But I do admit they got the UI right. They made it as close to stock Android as they could. All the nifty tools and utilities that the other manufactures force onto you

    • Dunno if it's still rolling out, but my phone updated to Android 9 last night. Finally!
  • Which is 99% of the time (I've got a PS4). Have ever since the rootkit fiasco, I'll probably die before I forgive them that one.

    Got an LG phone that I'm completely happy with. It's 2.5 years old, still keeps a charge, still does everything I need it to do, and I think it was $150 or so.

    • Have ever since the rootkit fiasco, I'll probably die before I forgive them that one.

      Note that in a case of "right hand doesn't know what left hand is doing", Sony has an Open Device program, making their phone unlockable and making it a breeze for your to install custom Android ROMs (LineageOS, etc.) or not even androids, but GNU/Linux (Jolla - the former Nokia's Maemo/Meego guys - are selling Sailfish X for a few Sony Xperia models).

      Quite a different experience from lots of other companies.

    • I have avoided SONY 100% after the rootkit. I have Samsung TVs, Yamaha audio, Pixel 3 phone and XBOX ONE for gaming.

  • Of all the major phone makers, LG is *THE WORST* when it comes to device updates.

    I got an LG G7 on release day. I have had it over a year. In this entire time, I have received a grand total of 4 updates.

    Google releases security patches for Android **monthly**.

    LG purposely and knowingly leaves their flagship devices in an insecure and unpatched state for an ungodly amount of time.

    I will never be buying another LG phone.

    • FYI, I get an update for my Lenovorola X4 every month. They do plod along, it takes almost a month for them to get me the OTA after Google drops the changes, but at least they happen.

      I have the Android One edition so I'm supposed to get to OTA to Q.

      Headphone jack, unlockable bootloader, IP67. No battery door, though.

  • To tell the truth, I haven't used LG phones since the times of LG2/3/4. The experience was bad enough to make me stop considering any LG phones. I would buy a Huawei phone in a heartbeat (if they still made and sold US versions) over LG. Why?

    Almost all US LG phones are carrier locked and branded. This is bad on so many levels. When I got a hold of an LG phone, I can't just boot into OS just to check things out. They ALWAYS demand a working sim card to be inserted. Lots of BLOAT. LG phones are the most BLOAT

  • Duh (Score:2)

    by Trogre ( 513942 )

    Of course companies will struggle to sell smartphones in 2019. Everyone already has one.

    Maybe they need a new business plan.

  • LG can go fuck itself. I bought their Viewty and it was a stupid phone. I hope LG fails.
  • With my LG Lotus, as long as I stopped at intersections, I could walk and type. I might even buy a cellphone again, if I could get a keyboard that I could type on. I liked the LG Lotus so much, I bought 2 other, used, and had 3 in all, using them well after they went off market. I have a Galaxy Note 8, and I would likely trade it for a new Note 4. At least then the screen could be protected. Anyway, just keep on making the same candy-bar. : P

  • No sympathy. Android is a rubbish OS, and google has managed to lump just about all the support of android on the OEMs, while they make the ongoing revenue with their forced bundling of services.

    The phone market will some consolidation in the nearer future, as companies like HTC, Sony and LG can't keep on bleeding the amount of money that they are. The problem is all of them are releasing lacklustre devices, following the same stupid trends (notches, removing headphone jacks, etc.), with poor support, and w

  • LG is short for Lucky Gold Star. I remember Gold Star things like TV's and such from the 1980s. Same company. So that's why I shy away from LG.

    Sony has a problem in the U.S. of being a bit overpriced.
  • One of my best phones was an LG. I'm currently on a Note 9 but I did like LG's V series with V20 being the last one I tried. Those phones were work horses!

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