The Galaxy Note 10 Won't Have Headphone Jack or Buttons, Report Says (androidpolice.com) 206
The Galaxy Note 10 will reportedly be Samsung's first flagship to remove the headphone jack, taking one of the last wired audio options off the flagship market. From a report: The Note 10 will have no 3.5mm connector, or exterior buttons (power, volume, Bixby) will be replaced by capacitive or pressure-sensitive areas, likely highlighted by some kind of raised 'bump' and/or texture along the edge (i.e., a faux button). We don't know if it's Samsung's intent to carry over both of these changes to the Galaxy S11 in 2020. Both changes had been previously rumored, but we can now provide stronger confirmation. The Note line has always been fertile ground for Samsung's more forward-looking changes to its smartphones' industrial design and general philosophy, as it's a phone that's long been adored by some of Samsung's most ardent fans -- the sort of people who tend to be early adopters of new technology.
That's OK (Score:5, Funny)
The next version of myself doesn't have hands or ears.
Samsung is not in the business selling me phones (Score:5, Insightful)
I'll leave it to others to buy devices that are built to last only 2 years and cannot be loaded in a second by swapping the battery.
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No user replaceable battery, no deal.
Of course the battery is user replaceable. You just lack the skills and equipment.
Re:Samsung is not in the business selling me phone (Score:4, Insightful)
I had a Samsung battery fail on a Note 3, quite recently the original battery (apps would run not quite run low voltage I guess, it dropped half the charge in a matter of seconds). I was quite surprised, it failed and started to grow, quite the bulge in the middle, enough to force the back cover off. It started me wondering, those fixed batteries, how many people realise that a failing battery can actually physically break their phone. The battery was 50% thicker than normal, in the note 3 the cover comes off, in a Note 10, it would have broken the phone (now that is purposeful design obsolescence). I wonder how many cracked phones are actually failed batteries, suckers ($10 battery failure kills a thousand dollar phone, actually physically breaks the phone, what a scam).
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And which current generation phone has an "easily" replaceable battery? Every one that I've seen is now sealed requiring plastic paddles, tri-torx screwdrivers and the patience of Jobe to change one out.
Can't say that I'm that bothered (Score:3, Interesting)
A year ago, this would be a deal-breaker for me. Now, I have a couple sets of bluetooth headphones which I much prefer over any of the wired headphones in my collection. Whether running, at the gym, working outside, or using the headphones to cover up household noise so I can sleep, I haven't reached for corded headphones in some time.
Besides my headphone jack is constantly filling with pocket lint to the point where I couldn't use corded headphones anyway.
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Re:Can't say that I'm that bothered (Score:5, Informative)
Now, I have a couple sets of bluetooth headphones which I much prefer over any of the wired headphones in my collection..
Do any of them cost less than $20/year? Because that's how you have to price headphones with built in batteries; cost per year. You don't own them, you lease them.
Re: Can't say that I'm that bothered (Score:3)
Yes. MPOW headphones cost about $20 and last a couple years. They sound as good as the $100 wired Sennheiser sport headphones I had too. (The Sennheisers only lasted a year because the cables cracked. The warranty replacements also failed, at the jack.)
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I have yet to find bluetooth headphones that won't distort when I turn them up loud enough to play over a lawn mower.
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Wire ages, too
The wires on my wired headphones are replaceable. I am on my second set.
my takeaway (Score:3)
My takeaway from the article: Take very good care of my Note 9, make it last as long as possible.
The big disadvantage of wireless earphones vs wired -- it's two more charging processes to manage. Whereas hardwired earphones or headphones can sit in a drawer or a glovebox for years, you pull them out, and they just work.
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My takeaway from the article: Take very good care of my Note 9, make it last as long as possible.
Or just switch to LG, who are also building high quality Quad DACs into their phones.
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
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The trouble with user-replaceable batteries is that everyone just buys third-party batteries then, these batteries go down in a low and lower price spiral because everybody just buys the cheaper battery and they are all crappy then. You can buy a new battery for a few bucks then but it will just fail in no time.
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I bought a Samsung battery, it was plenty cheap. I don't see the point in buying risky 3rd party no brand junk just to save pennies. It's very likely a false economy buying the no-brand.
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Yeah, 9600 Wh. Sure.
Re: Sweet (Score:3)
Samsung literally could not care less. By avoiding consumers like you, how many did they pick up that wanted a thinner, lighter phone? Hundreds? Thousands?
If they thought it was worth wooing you back, they would. You're a niche market that nobody cares about, you're just very loud about it. There's nothing wrong with that per se, just don't have any illusions that some social media drone at Samsung is reading forum posts and will choose to change their design strategy because your biting commentary helped t
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By avoiding consumers like you, how many did they pick up that wanted a thinner, lighter phone? Hundreds? Thousands?
A healthy percentage of people not only don't give a fuck but are tired of piss poor battery life, brittle devices that are easily damaged and not being able to hold phone without accidentally triggering digitizers.
I know companies like Apple think their customers truly care about premium high quality thin and light iPhones. Yet in the real world a MAJORITY of people are walking around with their thin phones in cheap bulky rubberized cases because they know if they don't their phones will literally fall ap
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in the real world a MAJORITY of people are walking around with their thin phones in cheap bulky rubberized cases because they know if they don't their phones will literally fall apart.
I think not having battery doors is a travesty, and if I could have found a cheap phone with decent RAM, a user-replaceable battery, water resistance, updates, and an unlockable bootloader, I'd have bought it. (The only thing I didn't get was the battery door.) But I think overall that having thin phones that one puts into a case is a virtue. It allows the user to tailor the amount of protection to their lifestyle, which I think is a virtue. I put a thin and cheap (as in, cheapest-on-eBay) squishy TPU skin
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STUNNING (Score:3, Funny)
AND BRAVE
Power button?? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm a little more concerned about the lack of any kind of physical power button then the headphone jack.
How to you trigger a hardware level reset with software only buttons? I assume this problem is solved somewhere but I have yet to see a solution.
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I'm a little more concerned about the lack of any kind of physical power button then the headphone jack. How to you trigger a hardware level reset with software only buttons? I assume this problem is solved somewhere but I have yet to see a solution.
That won't be problem, in fact it won't even be a change. The current "hardware" buttons aren't really "hardware" buttons in any real sense anyway. They trigger interrupts on the main CPU that are handled by low-level firmware, and it's that firmware that notices when you hold the right buttons down for long enough and triggers a hardware reset. The pressure-sensitive or capacitive buttons will work the same way, except they'll probably be monitored by a dedicated microcontroller which will issue the int
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The current "hardware" buttons aren't really "hardware" buttons in any real sense anyway. They trigger interrupts on the main CPU that are handled by low-level firmware
Many SoCs even have an actual hardware watchdog.
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How to you trigger a hardware level reset with software only buttons?
There's no such thing as a hardware level reset on a phone. It's all software in one form of another. In other news, watchdogs and non-maskable interrupts are a thing. The problem is solved, you just can't see it because it doesn't have an physical form.
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I'm a little more concerned about the lack of any kind of physical power button then the headphone jack.
How to you trigger a hardware level reset with software only buttons? I assume this problem is solved somewhere but I have yet to see a solution.
The article didn't say they were removing the power button.
Many Android handsets have eschewed physical home, back and other function buttons for capacitive buttons for years now. My Galaxy Nexus didn't have them and have never failed (the phone still works, slow as a dog with modern apps, but still works). Sounds like the article is trying to make a big deal out of a non event. Samsung's high end phone doesn't have a headphone jack, good news... because it's Android, you've got a choice about your next
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Because headphone jacks are a crippling expense (Score:2)
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Did you miss the memo? Samsung sells Bluetooth earbuds now and wants to sell more of them. Gimme money!
And why the high end? Because people that have bought phones that cost twice as much with fewer features have already self-selected into a group with more money than brains. Notice that just above thisv story, Moto is bringing the headphone jack back on their mid-range phones. Google also brought the jack back on their 3A.
These companies know where the juice is.
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ever listened to anything over Bluetooth where everybody in the same area is on Wifi and Bluetooth as well? click, buzz, pause, click, buzz, pause. No thanks, a wired headphone jack is table stakes for me.
Samsung: thanks for making our decisions easier (Score:2)
No removable battery = no sale.
No headphone jack = no sale.
Oh and to all of you laptop vendors selling product at $1k to $3k a pop without a removable battery no sale.
Last I checked smart phone sales are way down and so are costs associated with bringing "good enough" alternatives to market:
https://wiki.pine64.org/index.... [pine64.org]
If vendors want to be pricks then fuck em.
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No removable battery = no sale.
No headphone jack = no sale.
Bingo. Those two items are "must haves" for me to even consider buying a phone.
Fortunately not all manufacturers are moving to Full Retard Mode as Samsung appears to be doing now.
Samsung used to be okay- my Galaxy S5 has a headphone jack and a replaceable battery and works fine. I should should probably buy a spare S5 or two while I still can.
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Pinephone looks awesome except that 720p resolution. I don't know why, but it would be fun to dual boot Linux/Android on there. With USB C hosting and Display port, you could dock and reboot to Linux for your full desktop. Nifty.
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Pinephone looks awesome except that 720p resolution.
It's probably 720p to go with the much-less-than-awesome MALI400 GPU. It's adequate for basic purposes, but that's about it. There is one benefit to MALI, though, which is that it's the only mobile GPU with an OSS driver besides Tegra.
I have a Pine A64+ 2GB that I plan to use in-vehicle, as soon as I can find my damned uSD reader so I can reflash it.
Huawei (Score:2)
I bet Huawei's phablet will have a headphone jack.
Just say'n.
Real buttons on CASE?!? (Score:2)
Can somebody PLEASE come up with a way to at LEAST allow us to have real, latency-free buttons on the CASE?
Example: phone has two or three conductive pads on the exterior, internally connected to the phone's GPIO through an optoisolator. Basically, the pads are connected to a LED inside the phone, and the phone's SOC is connected to a sensor that's right next to it. Shorting out the pads has no effect, because they only have power when some external power source (like a circuit inside a thirdparty case) pro
Styluses? (Score:2)
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Dropped Samsung last year (Score:2)
They forced curved displays on power users. Want a flat display? Buy a low end model.
Done and dusted, finally 'broke up' with them after having 5 Samsungs in a row, headphone jack would also have 100% been a bye bye situation.
Don't miss them, or their same-as-Apple pricing on the top end models.
dongle (Score:2)
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Wow...really?
That's just kinda sad.
What do teens do for money these days if they don't have job or work around the neighborhood?
Durability of USB-C? (Score:2)
Just saying having that dongle with the phone in the pocket and headphones plugged in is going to put a lot of stress on the port.
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It can hardly be worse, I've had several micro-usb ports die and I hate them. Good thing about USB-C, you can't accidentally plug it in the wrong way round and kill a phone that costs more than a TV.
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Jump to conclusions and then comment on that conclusion as if it's full reality!!!!
My Galaxy Note II also lasted many years, it was the power button that finally went on it, I blame that on the crappy repair job done to the screen, they fixed the screen but damaged the phone whilst doing it.
Anyway point is some USB connected are better quality and far more robust than others and some are far easier to see which direction to plug the lead i
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Type C: 10k cycles
Micro USB: Also 10k cycles
I'm enjoying Type C so far. The cheap 10' cable I bought at grocery outlet is working fine with Turbopower...
Now maybe there's hope... (Score:2)
Of sanding that goddamn bixby button off the side.
How many customers are demanding its removal? (Score:2)
With all the high end phones joining the horrible design decision to go without a headphone jack, where are all the customers clamoring for it's removal? I've heard some say it doesn't affect them much, but most posts I've seen absolutely hate not having it. I've been using a Pixel 2XL for almost 2 years, and I'll never buy another phone without the headphone jack. I've gone through about half a dozen usb-c -> 3.5mm adapters, they go bad on me like crazy. I hate not being able to listen to headphones
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Same here, but that's not the only dealbreaker for me. I have at least 200 other reasons as long as the Pixel 3 is $800.
Moto Z4 (Score:2)
I guess it's time to get a Moto Z4 instead. https://www.digitaltrends.com/... [digitaltrends.com]
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Just know that you're almost certainly not getting Android R on that thing, just like the article you linked says. Lenovorola has been very good so far about unlocking bootloaders (you need permission if your phone is provider-locked, but unlocked devices are cheap enough) and tolerably good about providing updates, but they're not going to support the current devices for ever and ever. I'm pretty happy to be getting Q, though.
Cool (Score:2)
A Moto Z4 for me then!
That's fine (Score:2)
There's other phones if Samsung isn't interested in making a decent one.
'guess then I won't have ... (Score:2)
... a Galaxy Note 10.
That was easy.
Re:About time (Score:5, Insightful)
Headphone jacks are archaic and not worth the [...] real estate
Headphone jacks take up approximately 3.5mm of space. That sounds pretty reasonable to me.
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Headphone jacks take up approximately 3.5mm of space. That sounds pretty reasonable to me.
Correct, they're pretty compact. And they just work.
For me one of the issues is that no Bluetooth connection will ever have the fidelity or reliability of a simple wired connection. Even better, a wired connection doesn't have batteries that will inevitably, unavoidably wear out.
So no Galaxy Note 10 for me- there will always be some manufacturer out there who will make phones and tablets with a 3.5mm headphone jack and that's who'll get my business.
I couldn't care less about the logo or brand name, just giv
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Unless it's in a Samsung device then it'll break if you look at it too hard, seriously, they suck at headphone connections. Both my Samsung phone and my Samsung TV headphone ports are flaky to the point that I've given up using them and found alternative methods.
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Headphone jacks are archaic and not worth the [...] real estate
Headphone jacks take up approximately 3.5mm of space. That sounds pretty reasonable to me.
That's the diameter of the plug. You actually need about 5mm for the socket. That's 5mm on each side, and you also need about 20mm of depth. So it's actually 500 mm^3. Half a cubic centimeter doesn't sound like much, but given how tightly packed phones are, it's actually quite a lot. And it's even worse because that's a half cubic centimeter on the edge, where all the antennas, buttons and power/data port have to be. That's particularly prime real estate inside a phone.
Of course, many people think t
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stop being a tool
Thank you for conceding the argument, though you could be more gracious about it.
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I've taken the Samsung Galaxy S5 fully underwater to do photography, headphone jack and all, without issue. Worked great then, why can it no longer work great now?
Re:About time (Score:5, Insightful)
Bluetooth audio is broken, and not worth the cost. Seriously, I had more issues with Bluetooth headphones crackling, disconnecting, and with something I call half-syncing, where your Bluetooth device is synced and connected, but after a few minutes of playback, the sound output migrates to playing through phone speakers again, BT device remains connected. This is utter BS. The old good headphones need a wire, but the reliability, ease of use, and the sound quality are unmatched. The insanely expensive wireless buds/headphones still have to match the quality of comfort of my 40 dollar Koss PortaPro or 80 dollar Sennheiser PX100.
So what can I say about Galaxy Note? Of course I am not buying one.
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Not to mention having to manage the headphone batteries on top of everything else.
Seriously, Samsung. It's nuts that there are features that my Galaxy S4 has that you can't be arsed to put on your "modern" phones.
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Bluetooth audio is broken, and not worth the cost. Seriously, I had more issues with Bluetooth headphones crackling, disconnecting, and with something I call half-syncing, where your Bluetooth device is synced and connected, but after a few minutes of playback, the sound output migrates to playing through phone speakers again, BT device remains connected. This is utter BS. The old good headphones need a wire, but the reliability, ease of use, and the sound quality are unmatched. The insanely expensive wireless buds/headphones still have to match the quality of comfort of my 40 dollar Koss PortaPro or 80 dollar Sennheiser PX100.
So what can I say about Galaxy Note? Of course I am not buying one.
Another frustration of BT Headphones is that they sometimes cut out (Looking at the $249 LG Platinum BT Headphones), when working out, either because I've turned my head away from the phone so that the signal some how is "lost" (even though the phone is on my arm) or due to sweat. Something which does not happen with wired headphones. Oh well, I wanted to maybe get a Note 10, but I guess I'll get a better deal on a Note 9 then.
Re: About time (Score:5, Insightful)
This isn't about audiophiles, this is about a fifty cent jack letting you use ten dollars worth of headphones to get better sound than ninety-nine percent of the bluetooth kind.
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I carry Cowon Plenue D, a phone and a Kaossilator with me at all times. Music from the Plenue, playing some on the Kaoss and....listening to youtube videos /making WhatsApp calls on the phone. All devices have the jack. Headphones - IE80 (L-shaped connection). Is anyone seriously suggesting that's I'd be better off in terms of quality, convenience or price by getting a phone without a jack?
Convenience, quality, price, comfort, longevity....all favor the jack.
BTW, that was the first and last Samsung phone I
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Really? Are you telling me that no Bluetooth headphone or speaker system can ever support stereo sound? I find that a little hard to believe.
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Modern bluetooth has enough bandwidth and some devices support audio codecs that sound pretty good. MP3s sound pretty good, too, it's very difficult to even find a song that reveals the deficiencies of the format. But put the audio compression used with most bluetooth headphones together with your MP3 (or whatever) and you rapidly get muddy, crunchy audio.
It's not true that you can never have good quality audio to bluetooth headphones, but most devices don't support the codecs required, and the ones that do
Re: About time (Score:2)
> it's very difficult to even find a song that reveals the deficiencies of the format.
Binaural surround encoded as 2.0 stereo makes mp3's artifacts *very* audible & obvious.
Re: About time (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:About time (Score:4, Interesting)
Headphone jacks are handy for other things:
1. You can use them as a power source. Connect a transformer, modulate a loud sine wave, voilia! Power. This is how IR-blaster LEDs work.
2. It's poorly documented, but some phones have the headphone jack connected through a crossbar circuit to allow it to work as a line-level UART (english: "serial port" with nonstandard voltage levels).
3. You can use them to rig up ghetto-fabulous GPIO. Plug a DTMF decoder into the headphone jack, have your app output DTMF bursts to trigger it.
4. Building on #3, you can also rig up a ghetto-fabulous Bell103a 300 baud modem and use it for bidirectional communication with low overhead and low cost. If you can live with the latency and CPU load, you can even do DMT signaling up to the limits of what the phone's codec can support and get bitrates approaching those of first-generation DSL.
5. You can rig up buttons through arrays of resistors and use them as triggers, the same way the answer/pause, vol+, and vol- buttons on a headset work.
6. #2 notwithstanding, you can also bitbang a UART or SPI (phone is master & uses one channel for clock, one channel for data-out, and uses mic for data-in). SPI is a LOT easier to bitbang than UART, because with SPI, the phone is in charge of timing, and lots of SPI applications are semi/totally-static.
7. With some extra driver circuitry, you can use the headphone jack to drive a shift register (basically, same idea as SPI via #6)
8. It's totally off the supported end of the Android API, but some Android devices are capable of using the 3 signal lines on a headphone jack as bidirectional GPIO if you know how to bitbang and drive them directly.
These are particularly handy if you're repurposing an old Android device for some embedded electronics project. Most people who are into homebrew electronics have a literal DRAWER full of old Android devices at this point, and giving them the ability to do simple GPIO makes them INCREDIBLY useful for projects.
Sure, some of those applications MIGHT work via Bluetooth... but let's be honest. Pairing bluetooth is a fucking total pain, especially if you have to depend upon technologically-clueless people to pull it off successfully. I shudder to imagine talking my mom through pairing one of my homebrew creations to an old Andrew device over the phone. In contrast, telling her, "plug this into the headphone jack" is almost foolproof. ;-)
Re: About time (Score:2, Funny)
Everything you just said is exactly why the average consumer will never buy a smartphone without a headphone jack. What on Earth could a phone be possibly useful for, then?
Re: About time (Score:2)
You're obviously being sarcastic, but here's another: depending upon the SoC used, the headphone jack is *also* potentially capable of generating an IRQ, vs depending upon nonstop polling.
Android since roughly Lollipop has been increasingly aggressive about stopping apps & services from keeping the phone awake. This DIRECTLY impacts your ability to trigger something by a signal that can only be read by polling, and makes anything left that can still trigger a real, honest-to-god IRQ extrmely valuable, e
Re: About time (Score:2)
Oh, and I forgot the OTHER huge deficiency of Bluetooth for repurposed Android devices... most Android devices have factory kernels with crippled & partial bluetooth stacks, and overcoming this is nontrivially hard. If the device's bootloader is locked, it can be INSURMOUNTABLY hard.
Remember, Android doesn't allow user-enabled loadable kernel modules. You basically have to bake them into the bootloader, which requires an unlocked bootloader AND a kernel under your control. It's hard to do under the BEST
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Re: About time (Score:2)
That's fine, because it's obvious that the preferences of the masses don't particularly align with those of manufacturers, either.
What really sucks, though, is that I'd always taken for granted that in a few years, AOSP-ready never-locked phones from China with designs catering to every niche group of users would be flooding the market by now, making design decisions by companies like Samsung irrelevant to me.
I was wrong. China won't save us this time, because Chinese phones are now the most locked-down of
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Plus: Headphone jacks can easily be waterproofed.
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The thing is that technically the audio port is redundant: It doesn't do anything that the USC C port couldn't do just as well. Insisting in a headphone jack is a bit like insisting in a data port AND a charging port instead of having just one port both for charging and for data.
I can understand that people don't like that: You can't easily plug in headphones while charging your device with a cable and you may have 3.5mm headphones you don't want to plug in with an adapter. But it's really not THAT bad. If
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>"The thing is that technically the audio port is redundant: It doesn't do anything that the USC C port couldn't do just as well."
I won't need to carry around some expensive, fragile, annoying dongle or cable. Which is even bigger and heavier if it ALSO supports charging while listening (which some of my use case requires). And if it is a dongle and not a cable, it sticks way out of the phone, probably interfering with mounting or carrying, might not work with case, puts lots of stress on the connector
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If you really limit yourself to phones that still have an audio port you may do yourself more harm than good.
Ah, capitalism, making what everyone wants.
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If 30% of people want a headphone jack but only 10% of those want it enough for it to impact their purchase choice, capitalism will deduce that the market, as a whole, does not want it very much. That doesn't change the fact that a few people might want it a whole lot, and even be unwilling to buy a phone without. But the fact remains, if it isn't important to the market overall, it may go away.
These days smartphones are commodities. Little more than slates of easily scratched glass that look and work the same regardless of manufacturer. Doesn't take all that much to influence buying.
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Re: I was against this plan (Score:2)
Firewire WAS better than USB.
Firewire Computer: "Hey, hard drive... transfer 16 megabytes into RAM starting at 0xbf72800 & let me know when you're finished"
USB Computer: "Hey, hard drive, send me a byte. Now send me the next byte. And the next byte. And the next byte..."
The net transfer rates were comparable, but like SCSI, FireWire basically ran on autopilot without direct oversight by the CPU. In contrast, USB demands the CPU's full attention for every byte.
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Not buying the phone does not actually require a University course. Even 7 year olds can not buy phones.
Working out exactly why world-leading companies want to remove the features their customers want, however, probably requires an MBA.
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the IR Blaster back please.
You'll laugh, but the IR blaster on my S5 is actually really handy. Plus it's great fun in bars and restaurants for turning off obnoxious TVs that ruin the atmosphere...I'm not talking about a sports bar where the TV is an expected fixture, I'm talking about any nice little restaurant where the owner thinks everyone wants to be bombarded with cat food commercials or the other pointless drivel that makes up most commercial TV.
I just put my S5 on the table and run the "TV Kill" app. Blessed silence follows. A