Android Q Will Include More Ways For Carriers To SIM Lock Your Phone (9to5google.com) 262
An anonymous reader quotes a report from 9to5Google: Over the weekend, four commits were posted to various parts of Android's Gerrit source code management, all entitled "Carrier restriction enhancements for Android Q." In them, we see that network carriers will have more fine-grained control over which networks devices will and will not work on. More specifically, it will be possible to designate a list of "allowed" and "excluded" carriers, essentially a whitelist and a blacklist of what will and won't work on a particular phone. This can be done with a fine-grained detail to even allow blocking virtual carrier networks that run on the same towers as your main carrier.
Restriction changes are also on the way for dual-SIM devices. At the moment, carriers can set individual restrictions for each SIM slot, but with Android Q, carriers will be able to lock out the second slot unless there's an approved SIM card in the first slot. This SIM lock restriction is applied immediately and will persist through restarting the phone, and even doing a factory reset. Thankfully, in both cases, emergency phone calls will still work as expected, regardless of any restrictions on the particular SIM cards in your phone.
Restriction changes are also on the way for dual-SIM devices. At the moment, carriers can set individual restrictions for each SIM slot, but with Android Q, carriers will be able to lock out the second slot unless there's an approved SIM card in the first slot. This SIM lock restriction is applied immediately and will persist through restarting the phone, and even doing a factory reset. Thankfully, in both cases, emergency phone calls will still work as expected, regardless of any restrictions on the particular SIM cards in your phone.
Property is dead (Score:5, Insightful)
Somewhere in the heart of Android, theres a Linux kernel, still under the GPL, bleeding out for the loss of all it was supposed represent.
"Property" is now "Rent".
Re:Property is dead (Score:5, Interesting)
In this case you decided to rent your phone from the carrier. You pay monthly for it, if you exit early there are fees and they want the phone back or the remainder of the balance on it, right?
Just buy the phone unlocked, or get a contract from someone who doesn't lock it to one network. I get the impression that such options are not widely available in the US, but around here it's common, usually cheaper and I've never bought a SIM locked phone ever.
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My T-Mobile LG G5 came with an app that permanently unlocked it. I had to pay nothing to unlock my phone.
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All of the major carriers in the US allow you to bring your own phone
Which doesn't help if the vast majority of stores in which you can see and touch a phone before buying it sell only locked phones.
Re:Property is dead (Score:5, Insightful)
Which doesn't help if the vast majority of stores in which you can see and touch a phone before buying it sell only locked phones.
So do what everyone else does. Go into the store that sells locked phones, try them out, then buy an unlocked phone on the internet. Make sure you tell the salesdroid that you're not going to buy a phone in his shop because they don't sell unlocked phones, on your way out.
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Which flagship phone? Samsung, Moto, LG all sell unlocked versions on their phones on Amazon.
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
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When I bought my iPhone 6s full price from AT&T I called them that night and had it unlocked, then tested out a T-Mobile SIM in it and it worked right away. If you've paid for the phone you can get it unlocked.
Re:Property is dead (Score:4, Informative)
Then go, see and touch a phone, then asked for an unlocked one. If they can't provide one, you at least have no problem with your conscience for buying it cheaper online.
It might teach them that those who sell what the customer demands stay in business. Ya know, like, how it was supposed in capitalism?
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Re:Property is dead (Score:5, Informative)
I'd be careful on that. I have had some carriers lock unlocked phones, or re-lock phones that were unlocked. How does this rev of Android know the difference between a phone that was locked from the factory versus a carrier trying to seize control of a factory unlocked device and lock it to their network?
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of carriers would love to lock out that second SIM as a matter of principle.
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I'd be careful on that. I have had some carriers lock unlocked phones, or re-lock phones that were unlocked.
Next time, don't hand them your phone. Just install their SIM. There's literally no way for a SIM to lock your phone, although maybe Google will add that to Android Q, too.
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Re:Property is dead (Score:5, Informative)
In this case you decided to rent your phone from the carrier. You pay monthly for it, if you exit early there are fees and they want the phone back or the remainder of the balance on it, right?
Just buy the phone unlocked, or get a contract from someone who doesn't lock it to one network. I get the impression that such options are not widely available in the US, but around here it's common, usually cheaper and I've never bought a SIM locked phone ever.
This. In almost every country I've been to you can buy phones outright and stick a SIM from any carrier in them. It gets a bit fuzzy when new networks are established and sometimes the frequencies used are not supported by all handsets, but generally if you're buying locally your phone will work (those of use who buy cheaply from importers need to do their homework).
Only in the US are you restricted by the carriers. Only a few carriers will permit a non-carrier phone to even be registered on their network and even then you need to register the IMEI on their network before they'll let you do anything. Not like here in the UK where I can walk into Tesco and get a SIM card that will register itself. In fact the UK 3 brand PAYG (Pay As You Go) SIM is highly prized by American travellers because it includes data roaming to 73 countries. Last time I went to the US I used a 3 SIM and got 1GB of data for £10 that just worked when I turned my phone on in LAX, no mucking about at an AT&T store.
Re:Property is dead (Score:5, Interesting)
US carriers often (usually?) won't let phones from pay-as-you-go or virtual carriers register unless the phones are a year (maybe two) old.
So a newer phone from Total Wireless (a virtual carrier using Verizon's network) can't be registered on Verizon.
The major carriers don't want the cheap, somewhat subsidized phones from these pay-as-you-go services cannibalizing their more expensive authorized phones. (Especially if those phones are from the big carriers' own pay-as-you-go services.)
However, the carriers generally allow unlocked, unaffiliated phones. Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile, and AT&T all allow this. Just buy an unlocked and non-carrier locked phone. It's not that hard. As I posted above (anonymously -- signed in for this post), unlocked and carrier-agnostic phones are readily available on Amazon on other online merchants.
Holding a phone before buying it (Score:2)
unlocked and carrier-agnostic phones are readily available on Amazon on other online merchants.
How can someone looking to buy a phone from an online merchant get a feel for how the phone will feel in his or her hand?
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The same way they buy a TV. They go to the storefronts and check out the new phones, then go buy the phone online.
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As stated above, go to the shop, get an idea of the look and feel, then ask for an unlocked phone. If they can't provide one, one lost sale for them, one more that goes to the big river.
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How can someone looking to buy a phone from an online merchant get a feel for how the phone will feel in his or her hand?
The same way you do it for almost anything you buy online..
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US carriers often (usually?) won't let phones from pay-as-you-go or virtual carriers register unless the phones are a year (maybe two) old.
So a newer phone from Total Wireless (a virtual carrier using Verizon's network) can't be registered on Verizon.
That's not how it works at all. It's that US carriers won't SIM unlock those phones for you until they are months to a year old, if then. Tracfone will never SIM unlock anything, for example, but Verizon or ATT or T-Mobile will. Carriers don't care where your phone came from any more, but they do still care where it's going.
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Re:Property is dead (Score:5, Interesting)
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Is it subsidized by the French government? Because how does that work? Seems like the US companies wouldn't like it. Also, do they sell SIMs in the US?
Re:Property is dead (Score:4, Insightful)
I have the same experience. I guess the Americans don't have as much freedom as other countries, except for large corporations.
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I've never heard of that happening here, and would certainly be illegal. It really seems like you need some better consumer protection laws if they can get away with damaging your phone like that.
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They can't. He was posting a hypothetical while wearing a tin foil hat
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It's easy to buy an unlocked phone, and activate it on most any network. I always go that route - probably for the last decade, even when it was harder.
The only trick is you need to know what you're shopping for. For instance, I might have a OnePlus phone, if it handled Verizon LTE band 13, but it doesn't, and that's what available where I actually drive in the real world. So I got an unlocked Essential phone instead. Many people don't understand how the tech works, and it isn't easy to figure this out if y
Re: Property is dead (Score:2)
I only once got a phone that was simlocked, but the seller unlocked it for me since I actually paid full price for it.
Since then I have always purchased phone and subscription separately. I'm pretty satisfied with the Cat S60 I have now with dual sims.
But simlocking should be banned.
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One law, and that goes away. One decision by Google(aka state front company) and that goes away. Your phone is a spying device that is owned by the government. The telecoms are state-front companies, same as Google. The nut Stallman was warning of this for decades. Enjoy you freedom while it lasts.
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Just a note: T-Mobile doesn't do VOLTE the correct 'standard' way. So your world phone will 'sort of work', but the service is absolute _unreliable_ crap. You miss calls if your have a LTE connection, get it when you have a lessor one.
AT&T is your only option in America to use standard band 'world phones'.
Be aware, _punish_ T-Mobile. They've been refusing to comply with the standard for years now.
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And next to the core running Linux is a cellular modem, running some wonderful proprietary "OS" on a DSP [wikipedia.org]. You don't really think they were running LTE signal processing on a vanilla ARM under Linux, right?
The GPL doesn't mean that software running on a completely separate core (or in some cases, a completely separate physical semiconductor) inherits the GPL just because L
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Yes, the RIL -- the Radio Interface Layer.
You might consider, what does the RIL interface with? If you track it down from userland to the kernel you'll see it's communicating with the cellular modem, either over some actual physical interface like USB or a intra-SOC shared memory bus.
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"Property" is now "Rent".
SIM locking was introduced with the very earliest of mobile phones. I take issue with you saying that property is *now* rent especially since the only phones actually SIM locked are those which are actually rented.
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The carrier sells you the phone at a discount rate alongside a contract. They add the installments on the bill. If you leave early you pay the balance. That isn't rent, it's a loan on a purchase. You own the purchase, not them.
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First you say it's a loan, then you say you own it. Read you contract, you'll find you're actually wrong about the ownership.
Re: Property is dead (Score:2)
That was a separate lock code that you as a user could set.
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That is the purpose of the whole scheme. The carrier sells the phone at a discount because they'll make it up on the contract. Really I think this was more about the free phone options than anything. They don't want to take the free phone, pay a cancellation fee, and then move to another carrier with their loss leader.
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Until you finish paying it off, you don't completely own it
Good Idea (Score:3, Insightful)
In a boardroom somewhere in Businessland, a flock of executards converse:
Smartphone sales have been down for four straight quarters. What can we do to make people want to buy them even less?
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Re:Not going to happen (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, this is only an issue for people living in countries that vote against government regulation of big businesses.
It's almost as though they fail to understand that the government is formalised representation of people and their wishes and a necessary control against well resourced organisations that could otherwise abuse and exploit ordinary people.
Re:Not going to happen (Score:5, Insightful)
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Your ignorance of this decision is so profound I suspect you are a troll rather than a garden variety narrative pusher. But just in case...
1. Corporations are "people" for the purpose of bringing them under direct control of the laws, which apply to people, as a way of shielding owners from responsibility (usually fines) for wrongdoing. The company is responsible, not the manager or owner, and has to pay, but they can't proceed past that boundary. This isn't to say they can't be personally responsible fo
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Why should members of a corporation not have the right to peaceably assemble and petition the government for a redress of grievances, including problems with corporate regulation?
Even if you buy into sophistry that business-relalated activities are "secondary" rights, complaining to government about how they control it is enshrined just as much as complaining about anything else.
Re:Not going to happen (Score:4, Informative)
What the Citizen's United ruling did was grant the corporation itself "human" rights.
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It's almost as though they fail to understand that the government is formalised representation of people and their wishes and a necessary control against well resourced organisations that could otherwise abuse and exploit ordinary people.
What, are you telling me a business isn't interested in giving me a fair deal and value for money and would rather bleed me dry at every opportunity in every way they can? Well I don't believe you and if you'll excuse I'll be over here waiting for my trickle to come down.
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You started speaking with ideological possession and got the basic facts wrong because of it. There's a not country on Earth where you get a subsidized phone "for free " and the carriers are not allowed to lock the service on that phone they subsidized, so you can immediately jump over to low-cost carrier with no subsidies.
Use your mind, don't be a Marxist drone.
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Please don't say "they" like that's how the nation decided. Something like 38% of people vote for that shit (also, about 38% of people voted for Brexit). Almost an identical number vote against it (and in the US, more than half of voters.)
But yes, there is a huge group in America that think that government is never the solution.
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How well is life in countries where the government owns all the means of prodiction and doles it out to their families and connected supporters?
Re:Not going to happen (Score:5, Interesting)
Where I live, simlocking is not allowed. Every phone you buy will be unlocked.
Germany here.
Every phone you buy, yes.
But phones given to you as part of your plan aren't exactly bought. And getting a plan that pays for a phone with higher-than-usual minute prices may be stupid and a bet on your phone behaviour (by both sides of the deal...) but legal. And a legitimate reason for sim-locking.
So here, IIRC, it is legal to include a phone with sim-locking into your plan, but it has to be unlocked when the plan ends.
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Germany here.
You speak on behalf of most countries there. SIM locking in general is only regulated on purchased phones.
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But phones given to you as part of your plan aren't exactly bought.
It doesn't matter.
Just because you pay it monthly doesn't morally allow them to SIM-lock it. Why can't you switch carrier and pay of your debt at this one? It's not as if this locking was what insured the loaner that it will get its due.
Belgium (and Canada) has this right. SIM-locking is banned. It has no utility. The world would be better without SIM-locking.
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Because you agreed to the contract that included paying x for 24 months? Most carriers here would probably even agree to receive that as a lump sum and handover (unlock) your phone earlier, but that depends on the contract details.
Yes, the world would be better without SIM-Lock, but so would it be without High frequency Stock Trading and Justin Bieber but that alone is no reason to ban those.
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That's what I do, too. One with pre-paid, the other one with a regular contract but without included phone. (costs about the same)
But what's right for you and me is not neccessarily the best for others, so I don't want to stop anyone from getting a phone subsidized/financed by their carrier.
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Because you agreed to the contract that included paying x for 24 months?
How does SIM-locking a device ensure a carrier will get its money back?
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Yes it does morally allow them to SIM-lock (or IMEI-lock) it. Because until you finish paying it off, it isn't your phone. It's their phone. They can do whatever they want to it. They're just being enough to let you use it before you finish paying for it.
Try buying an unlocked phone on
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Try buying an unlocked phone on a monthly payment plan. I've never seen one for sale.
Any phone in Canada is sold like that.
No seller is willing to accept the risk that you'll skip out on the payments.
All carriers in Canada are willing to accept the risk. Otherwise, they would make us pay outright for phones.
The lock is what makes the risk acceptable to carriers who still sell phones on a payment plan.
No it doesn't. I can skip on payments and sell the phone online to people who will break the lock. And even if they couldn't, they could still use it on the same carrier with another plan.
Now, if a carrier insisted on SIM-locking or refused to unlock a phone that was entirely paid off
It was like that in Canada until they passed the law to forbid SIM-locking. Nothing of value has been lost since then.
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Where I live, simlocking is not allowed. Every phone you buy will be unlocked. Every. Single. One.
Here in Canada, they have to unlock it for free
https://www.cbc.ca/news/busine... [www.cbc.ca]
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Yup and I'm very happy with this law. But try getting Wi-Fi calling working with Fido on a BYOD Android phone, even a brand+model supporting it fully if it had been bought from Fido.
Such features are strictly whitelisted to phones bought from the same carrier only.
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Same in Canada, by law new phones now come unlocked and old locked phones can get unlocked for free.
However, if you bring an Android phone bought elsewhere to a carrier it'll work fine unless you want to use features like Wi-Fi calling. These "extra features" fully supported by the phones only work if the phone is whitelisted and bought through the carrier, even if exactly same brand+model.
With iPhones carriers must support features like Wi-fi calling, so "bring your own device" is less problematic for our
Breach of Faith (Score:3)
Or is my recollection wrong, and what would have been a sound proposal in the initial auction rule-making neutered by lobbying pressure?
Better solution? (Score:4, Insightful)
I love how they were able to auction off thin air.
You have a better solution to the tragedy of the commons [wikipedia.org]?
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You have a better solution to the tragedy of the commons?
Yeah, UWB. Too bad if you start using UWB, you have to stop using all other kinds of radio, though.
Not a solution (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, UWB. Too bad if you start using UWB, you have to stop using all other kinds of radio, though.
So A) it's not a solution because it's potentially incompatible and B) it's not a solution because wireless spectrum remains a finite public good no matter how you utilize the spectrum. UWB might make the limited spectrum go further but it doesn't solve the core problem of interference due to unregulated overuse.
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Your choices seem to be government control vs. free for all. Although we ar well past this, another choice was the radio patent owners owned the airwaves and could have sold it off.
That's pretty much what financially covetous government is doing now anyway.
Heheh the money from the auctions doesn't even go to cover debt spending from years ago, but rather is spend immediately on top of ongoing borrowing.
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until they pay off their devices
Is the carrier obligated to push the unlock packet the moment it receives payment in full for the device?
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The question pre-supposes that a carrier is using these new capabilities, then asks what the ramifications are.
I buy my own phone (Score:2)
Will they be able to do this on phones that are not locked?
Hopefully, this will make buying your own phone as an even safer option to go with the long standing fact that it is cheaper!/p?
With a threat of a restocking fee (Score:2)
The advantage of buying a locked phone is that you get to buy a phone in person. In turn, the advantage of buying a phone in person is not having to pay a restocking fee and round-trip shipping cost should you end up deciding that a phone purchased online doesn't suit you.
I'm surprised US carriers (Score:2)
don't permanently solder the SIM card to the device.
Removable SIM sockets are just one more thing the manufacturer has to pay for and one more reason to let the dirty customers actually remove the backplate and install one or two SIMs. /s
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don't permanently solder the SIM card to the device.
Removable SIM sockets are just one more thing the manufacturer has to pay for and one more reason to let the dirty customers actually remove the backplate and install one or two SIMs. /s
SIM that isn't physically removable you say? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
An Embedded-SIM (eSIM) or embedded universal integrated circuit card (eUICC) is a form of programmable SIM that is embedded directly into a device. ... In October 2017, Google unveiled the Pixel 2, which added eSIM support for use with its Project Fi service. The following year, Apple released the iPhone XS and iPhone XR with eSIM support.
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Back in the 2G/3G days the CDMA carriers Verizon/Sprint did this very thing. Phones had no SIM slots, just a mobile equipment identifier (MEID) which was hard coded into the phone. Those phones were totally carrier locked with no way to change it. I mean if WiMax hadn't failed they would probably still be doing that but i believe supporting LTE required the use of SIM cards.
Sigh (Score:5, Interesting)
Buy phone outright.
Refuse to use a carrier that attempts to lock you to their network (anti-competitive practice - they should only be doing it to ensure that you are still paying your debt to them for your financed phone, but even that's dubious).
Anyway, I thought we were all going to have eSIMs soon?
To be honest, at this point, my phone is a tablet on a data connection. I couldn't care less about the telecoms company behind it, and don't use it for classical telephony.
I would actually rather carry around a Wifi-4G (*) box on a month-to-month or PAYG basis and change it if they started messing me about. Then they wouldn't even see my "phone", just a data connection over Wifi / 4G.
But for sure, I've never owned a network-locked phone and don't ever intend to start with one. Buy phone from phone manufacturer via retail website. Buy SIM from a shop on a network of my choice. The second I can't just change that SIM for another, I'll find another way to connect. If that means a mini-Wifi box for each carrier, I'll take that into account as regards paying them money.
(*) I have a little Huawei box. It's the size and shape of a half-used bar of soap. It charges by USB. It works for 8 hours at full whack but can also be constantly plugged in. It offers out a 4G SIM connection over Wifi including NAT, firewall, SIP-NAT, etc. I can slip it in my pocket alongside my phone and, because it has a big data allowance, use all the data on it via my phone without having to even take it out of my pocket.
It travels with me. It's relatively secure (unlike, say, an open Wifi in a pub). It works throughout Europe. I can connect it to a cheap antenna and boost the signal when at home (when it's powered all the time) and the Wifi covers my entire two-storey home.
Friends can press a button and join it via WPS if they like. It can even piggy-back off another Wifi so you don't have to change your network settings once you'd used up all your data.
That's my "connection". Yes, it has a SIM card. Yes, it could be "locked" to the network (it's not - I bought it entirely separately to the multiple SIMs inside it that I switch to if I burn through the data). But it's cheap enough to be throwaway even if they did lock it. One of those and then change the whole thing for another network if they start locking me in and I want to move.
And then they never get on my phone, my phone doesn't even need a SIM inside it, I can use any phone I like, and I've got that barrier between what they are capable of running code on (even via a SIM smartcard) and what they are not.
I'd honestly rather do that - both my phone and that box slip lovely into a single pocket with room to spare and can "charge" off each other's cables - than carry a locked phone.
Hell, I'd carry a USB dongle and you could probably power a USB-4G dongle direct off a phone nowadays (USB-C and all that) and cut out the Wifi and charging portion. New network, new dongle, off you go.
Amazon is not a showroom (Score:2)
Buy phone outright.
Which U.S. electronics showroom chains sell major brand phones outright? Amazon is not a showroom.
Buy phone from phone manufacturer via retail website.
How would someone going this route determine a phone's hand-fit?
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Who the hell goes to a showroom to buy a phone?
And let me introduce you to what the entire world learned 20 years ago and thus killed retail:
You go to the shop.
You pick up the phone.
You get a free demo.
You say "Thanks, I'll think about it."
You consider it at home and order the phone from the supplier of your choice.
Alternatively, you order it, try it out for 30 days, return it if you're not happy with it.
Same for any white-goods (washing machines, dryers, kitchen appliances, etc.), phones, laptops, printers
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Tip #2: Don't buy any phone that one of your friends / work colleagues doesn't already have.
I see two practical problems with applying tip #2. If everybody followed tip #2, nobody would queue for launch. Then how would new products enter the market in the first place? Unless I'm missing something, each customer would end up having to know someone who (knows someone who)^n works for the manufacturer.
In addition, for a lot of people such as myself, most of their social life is online, and either they work from home or their work colleagues share few of their interests. How do they go about finding r
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Because that relies on at least 50% of the population understanding such an issue, then the one person they vote into power, by electing dozens of local representatives with differing views, actually caring the same about it and making it happen via policy without making worse things happen elsewhere that you don't want.
It's, quite simply, ridiculous to expect voting to affect such things.
"Not buying that shit" works a million times better, and talks directly to the people implementing such features.
911 calls (Score:5, Informative)
Remember, it's their phone ... (Score:2)
My last carrier phone was an HTC Tilt 2 (Score:2)
You people and your 'smartphones'.. (Score:2)
Lets skip to the underlying concern (Score:2)
Individuals who are using ATT , Verizon, or Sprint are buying expensive phones they think are subsidized by the carrier (hit you just pay way more on your bill) and than want to move to another carrier.
The answer is don't. Don't even start on any one of them. Excluding some rather specific edge cases, the major carriers are all ripping you off horribly. I just did a quick search and the cheapest plan Verizon is offering is $35/month for 3GB. I am paying $25/month for 10GB. To match my usage I would have t
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Re: Happy Friday From The Golden Girls! (Score:5, Funny)
Smithers who is that man?
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He's one of your fork-and-spoon operators from sector 7-G, sir.
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Simpson, eh? New man?
Re:wait (Score:5, Informative)
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For the time being. There are fewer and fewer manufacturers that allow bootloader unlocking. If and when those vendors become marginalized to the point that their mobile device businesses are no longer sustainable, then the party's over. Maybe that won't happen, but didn't Huawei recently pull back on bootloader unlocks?
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I'm just wondering what desert they're going to name Android Q.
Give Quiche a chance.
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Give Quorn a chance.
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World is a big place.