Google's Not-so-secret New OS (techspecs.blog) 129
According to reports late last year, Google is working on a new operating system called Andromeda. Much about it is still unknown, but according to the documentations Google has provided on its website, it's clear that the Fuchsia is the actual name of the operating system, and the kernel is called Magenta. A tech enthusiast dug around the documentations to share the followings: To my naive eyes, rather than saying Chrome OS is being merged into Android, it looks more like Android and Chrome OS are both being merged into Fuchsia. It's worth noting that these operating systems had previously already begun to merge together to an extent, such as when the Android team worked with the Chrome OS team in order to bring Update Engine to Nougat, which introduced A/B updates to the platform. Google is unsurprisingly bringing up Andromeda on a number of platforms, including the humble Intel NUC. ARM, x86, and MIPS bring-up is exactly what you would expect for an Android successor, and it also seems clear that this platform will run on Intel laptops. My best guess is that Android as an API and runtime will live on as a legacy environment within Andromeda. That's not to say that all development of Android would immediately stop, which seems extremely unlikely. But Google can't push two UI APIs as equal app frameworks over the long term: Mojo is clearly the future. Ah, but what is Mojo? Well it's the new API for writing Andromeda apps, and it comes from Chromium. Mojo was originally created to "extract a common platform out of Chrome's renderer and plugin processes that can support multiple types of sandboxed content."
If it gains popularity (Score:5, Insightful)
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OUCH !
At some point Google have to remain committed to marginally- or non-profitable businesses just so they do not lose EVEN MORE respect from developers !
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Ads, still there. Everything that does not somehow help with selling ads - gone.
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And thus why I always love the constant bitching about the classic LAMP stack here on Slashdot. Yeeeup, this is what I work with in my day job. Yeeeup, this has been what I've worked with for a decade now. Yes, I'll continue to use it, too. Yes, it has its flaws, but it is extremely well supported, and has a very clear support and development structure moving forward for the next 10 years.
Google competence (Score:5, Insightful)
Despite a blinding array of talent that works for the organization, this [slashdot.org] is the architecture for multimedia that they produced:
Google has in no way acknowledged the exceptionally poor design of Android, and there is no evidence that the organization has improved and learned from their management mistakes. How then can they be trusted to produce a new operating system? And why would anyone trust them to produce a secure system that is closed source?
I don't care if Verizon gives it away. Absolutely not.
Re:Google competence (Score:5, Informative)
... to produce a secure system that is closed source?
It may not make a difference in your argument, but it is worth noting that Fuchsia is currently open source: https://github.com/fuchsia-mir... [github.com].
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I don't use iOS, and I'm not familiar with their Apple's record on security. However, Google suffered 115 CVEs in 2015 on Stagefright and the Mediaserver. Nexus is a tiny fragment of the Android ecosystem, and most users have 3rd party devices that will never see these completely patched. These flaws are carved in stone in the /system mountpoint, and can never be corrected.
Apple may not have ideal security, but at least they CAN issue patches on the core OS that will reach the majority of their users. Googl
What is an OS? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why do we refer to a userspace infrastructure/UI API as an OS? Are KDE and GNOME OSes now?
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Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
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Because without userspace infrastructure, this would be called a kernel?
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Maybe a virtual machine running on a kernel running on a hypervisor? It's kernels all the way down...
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Maybe a virtual machine running on a kernel running on a hypervisor? It's kernels all the way down...
The real programmers manually load their boot loader that they personally wrote in assembly on every reboot, and like it!
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Nope. It's all ball bearings nowadays.
Re:What is an OS? (Score:4, Informative)
Re: What is an OS? (Score:1)
Thats right, linux kernel is the whole operating system, and it is being replaced here now. And that is THE news in whole article.
First time for long time a article really means "new OS" when they write so.
And yet some idiots want to come and say that things aint so that OS is something else than Linux Kernel.
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Why do we refer to a userspace infrastructure/UI API as an OS?
Post-truth.
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If you can't run it on top of Emacs then it must be its own OS.
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Because we always have. The term "operating system" has always referred to the foundation software on any machine, from the kernel to the standard operating environment.
No, but they can form part of an OS.
to what end? (Score:4, Insightful)
Chrome OS and Android are both untrusted, and inherently untrustable OS's. I would never allow one of them to run on any hardware I owned due to Google being a marketing and data harvesting company above all else. That is in their DNA and pervasive in their software which exists to collect as much of your data as possible.
Merging them into one OS is not going to make that any better.
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No it won't, but it reduces costs for Google (good for them), and focuses development efforts on one system. (Good for us.) Maybe this means it will bring real multiuser support to our phones. (Something Android lacks).
Hopefully the new "OS" will continue to be open source like Android, so that we can update it ourselves when the enviable carriers refuse to update the damn thing.
Although, I'm wondering about those ChromeOS devices. Alot of school systems bought into those because they were cheap. Is Google
Work me, personal me, my kid (Score:4, Interesting)
If I could quickly and easily switch users on my phone, I'd immediately set up three profiles to keep things separate:
Ray@work
Ray@play
RaysKid
No more accidentally triggering auto-complete of a personal URL while at work. I can let the kid play a game on the phone while I'm driving, knowing the toddler won't be clicking on important work or personal stuff.
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android does have this feature, the first version allowed you to have a guest session, next came the ability to create different users. now you can also lock the screen to a single application (for example set it on netflix and you can't switch or get out of netflix). these features should have been included from the start...
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If Google stops supporting them, the backlash will be pretty severe.
Ridiculous. Any chromebook that is updateable can have its OS replaced with Andromeda.
Re: to what end? (Score:2)
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Any chromebook that is updateable can have its OS replaced with Andromeda.
If the update isn't official, the user will have to enable developer mode to install it. And once the device is in developer mode, its firmware will complain to the effect "OS verification is off; please press Space then Enter to wipe this device and reinstall stock Chrome OS" every time it's turned on.
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Does it void the warranty? (Score:2)
Will such a firmware patch void the warranty on the display hinge, the keyboard, and the power jack? I worry about the warranty because I've had to have my current laptop serviced once under warranty to replace the power jack.
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To what end? That will depend on licensing. If it's not open source, then we will know
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Because the Nokia N900 and other Maemo/MeeGo phones weren't sincerely marketed in Slashdot's home country. When N900 was still in production, none of the carriers nor Best Buy had ever heard of it.
And because Windows Phone 7, Windows Phone 8.1, and Windows 10 Mobile appear to have failed to gain a substantial user base.
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May as well add Windows and MacOS/IOS in there as well. Just as bad.
"the kernel is called Magenta." (Score:2)
Replacing Linux with a home-rolled kernel?
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Replacing Linux with a home-rolled kernel?
Yes and at present it is closed source.
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Replacing Linux with a home-rolled kernel?
Yes and at present it is closed source.
I am NOT an open source ideologue, however, with Google closed source kernel could only mean that snooping is baked-in at the kernel level. They are not in business of selling OS, so I couldn't think of any other reason to close source it.
They should have named this kernel Tom, as in Peeping Tom.
Re:"the kernel is called Magenta." (Score:5, Insightful)
Replacing Linux with a home-rolled kernel?
Yes and at present it is closed source.
I am NOT an open source ideologue, however, with Google closed source kernel could only mean that snooping is baked-in at the kernel level. They are not in business of selling OS, so I couldn't think of any other reason to close source it.
They should have named this kernel Tom, as in Peeping Tom.
Its entirely likely they will open it up eventually. Right now its early R&D phase. Time will tell I guess.
Re:"the kernel is called Magenta." (Score:5, Informative)
Unless I'm way off base, there's the kernel.
Re:"the kernel is called Magenta." (Score:5, Informative)
Are you sure? It's right here: https://github.com/fuchsia-mirror/magenta
MIT license. Are we talking about the same thing?
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Well, MIT licensed, so they can keep the "base" kernel open-sourced and while the snooping bits in the user-installed binaries stay secret.
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Well, MIT licensed, so they can keep the "base" kernel open-sourced and while the snooping bits in the user-installed binaries stay secret.
This. Google has always been extremely anti GPL, to the extent that they have effectively banned it for internal projects. The reason is clear. If the user has the right to see the snooping then the user would likely choose to remove it.
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MIT license or equivalent is an absolutely necessary ingredient for Google's final descent to full evil.
Re: "the kernel is called Magenta." (Score:2)
And society as well! Aptly named license! We will share all our knowledge but we'll also throw a bunch of little tiny seeds in there that will grow one day to believe that the economic system we live in now is the best, America is the best place on earth, and that we have always been at war with the bad guys! (We've almost always been at war.)
It's the subtle little seedlings that do the heaving lifting. You just gotta give it time!
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You can do the same thing with Linux which allows proprietary closed-source kernel modules.
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I guess we'll have to wait for shipping devices to see if the kernel on the phone is identical to the kernel in the repository.
I will name him George (Score:4, Funny)
The NUC isn't humble (Score:2, Informative)
Just because it's small doesn't mean that it's humble. With i7's and 32G ram they easily out perform the humble mac mini which used to be a new development, throw in a closet and let it run box.
I'm running ESXi with decent results as well as other home lab experiments. (NVR, etc)
Is Google slowly dropping Java? (Score:2)
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Since much of this already exists in Chromium, does that mean that Google is pushing for JavaScript / Progressive Web Apps? You could have lighter installs of application or just links to web apps run. It almost sounds like they're going the Firefox OS route.
Google has been threatened with serious problems by Oracle with Java. Google was effectively forced to build an alternative with zero Oracle input in it so that, if they had lost the suits, they had a place to go with their products. Now that it looks like Oracle is losing, there's a chance that Java based stuff will survive long term, however the groups that sprung up with alternatives will not be killed for a long time. They now have a chance to kill Java in Google or at least take its crown as the lea
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Four legs better (Score:2)
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Linux Distribution not OS (Score:2)
ARM (Score:1)
Can we switch out of ARM please? Let's go with RISC-V or something super open source.
That name (Score:2)
I have no problems with the color itself, but i don't want to have to either spell or pronounce "Fuchsia" on a regular basis when talking about my phone or looking up stuff about it on the internet. Also Fuchsia seems like a horrible idea for a mascot.
Either this is a really poor choice, or somebody (possibly me) is misunderstanding what is meant by "actual name of the operating system." (If it's just a code name during development
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Yeah, if someone says "Fuchsia" to me, my first thought is "Gesundheit".
T-Mobile will sue (Score:2)
Few-sha.
My bigger worry with Fuchsia and Magenta is whether T-Mobile's legal department will spring into action, as it once did against the color scheme of Engadget Mobile.
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Mojo from Chrome? Palm WebOS flashback incoming! (Score:2)
What is Mojo? Well it's the new API for writing Andromeda apps, and it comes from Chromium. Mojo was originally created to "extract a common platform out of Chrome's renderer and plugin processes that can support multiple types of sandboxed content."
As a former developer of Palm/HP WebOS applications, this statement fills me with dread.
The WebOS application framework was also called Mojo and forced developers to use (WebKit) HTML, CSS & JavaScript for their entire application. Writing a UI, fine ... but having to write your entire application in JavaScript -- this glorious idea alone caused otherwise decent hardware to be about as powerful as a 286* as soon as you needed to push some heavier math operations (say, for de-/compression).
Even once WebO
It's an adventure (Score:1)
You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike.