Microsoft Wants To Enable Cellular PCs, But Will Carriers Bite? (computerworld.com) 145
Microsoft is aiming to enable the installation of non-removable programmable SIM cards and data radios in PCs and Windows tablets. In the company's vision, users will then be able to purchase cellular data for those cards through the Windows Store. The announcement was made at the company's WinHEC conference for device manufacturers in Shenzhen, China. From a report on ComputerWorld: Users would also get settings to help them better manage the use of data plans, so it's easier for them to control how much data apps can suck up. But there's a wrinkle in that plan: Cellular carriers will have to get on board with selling plans through the Windows Store, which will likely be a tougher sell.
Hol. ly. Sheeeeeit. (Score:2)
Re:Hol. ly. Sheeeeeit. (Score:5, Interesting)
What could possibly go wrong???
A better question is "Why does Microsoft need to be involved in this?" I can currently buy a data card from one of the cell carriers or I can tether my computer to my phone. How is having to pay Microsoft going to improve the current state of things? Just make the OS, jackasses, stop trying to use your near monopoly to force your way into other industries -- you are really bad at it.
Re:Hol. ly. Sheeeeeit. (Score:5, Insightful)
How this is improving things? Easy, where is the cut for MS in the current scenario?
Oh, how is it improving things for you, you mean? Not at all, why would it? Why should MS give a shit about that?
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They will get yet another vector to track you by.
Meanwhile malware writers will also figure out yet another attack vector that they can apply.
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I wonder if Microsoft wants to sell it directly and have the cards installed by default is so they can have them connected and activated even if you have not activated them and signed up for a plan. This way, the PCs and tablets would report back to them no matter what and they'd have your GPS data on top of it as well as audio recordings if you don't have Cortana blocked. You just wouldn't get to use the already active connections. Now, like the summery said, getting the carriers to agree to this will b
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I can currently buy a data card from one of the cell carriers
An external device sticks out the side of your laptop, making it something extra to lose or break. It also occupies one of the few USB ports.
or I can tether my computer to my phone.
For another thing, that requires already owning a smartphone and subscribing to a data plan. For another, only very recently have U.S. carriers begun to treat mobile hotspot use as a standard feature of cellular data plans. Previously, it was considered a breach and thus grounds for disconnection, causing the early termination fee to become due and payable immediately
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Who said it had to be an external device?
The trend toward making laptops less internally upgradeable said it had to be an external device.
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Almost all laptops have internal mini PCIe or M.2 slots.
How many of them? What are you willing to remove to add a cellular card?
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1) Just about any laptop with a wifi card (ie. almost all of them)
2) Nothing, because you can get a WLAN/WWAN card
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Are a substantial fraction of laptop owners willing to 1. research compatible WLAN/WWAN cards, especially with some manufacturers' habit of BIOS whitelisting; 2. buy one to replace the existing WLAN card; and 3. open their laptop to install it?
Perhaps this article is just about encouragement to bundle a WLAN/WWAN card in new laptops in place of a WLAN card.
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BIOS has nothing to do with this. It's an expansion card.
You'd be surprised. Lenovo has a habit of using BIOS to restrict expansion cards [lenovo.com].
Why not? People buy desktop expansion cards to add new functionality.
What desktop owners do doesn't necessarily predict what laptop owners do.
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Who do you hate dealing with more, Microsoft or your cellular carrier?
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Re:Hol. ly. Sheeeeeit. (Score:5, Funny)
I don't buy this for a moment. Microsoft "telemetry" is several gigabytes per month. No existing data plan could cope.
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I imagine they would have to make larger data plans available for cheaper though I doubt that will happen.
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There is already a setting for metered connection which drastically reduces the amount of traffic. I'd imagine that function would be invoked when on a data capped connection. I'm still unwilling to buy my data plan through the M$ store, especially when I already have one connected to my existing phone. It is just plain retarded that the US doesn't allows phones to be locked to a particular carrier. Somehow no matter what the industry and the FCC tout it doesn't seem to be in the users' interest in any way
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I'm not sold on "non-removeable" though
Neither will the cell carriers be.
There are lots of cell phone markets with very limited competition, and the incumbents like it fine that way. The last thing they're going to agree to is Microsoft trying to muscle in.
This won't be a winner for Microsoft.
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non-removable programmable SIM so ATT can lock the (Score:5, Insightful)
non-removable programmable SIM so ATT can lock them to ATT only like the ipad's from att?
MS needs to say no carrier locking!
Re:non-removable programmable SIM so ATT can lock (Score:5, Insightful)
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and you will pay the roaming fees that can be as high as $15-$20 A MEG!
also pay for TXT spam at $0.15-$0.25 meg and $0.50-$1.00 roaming.
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Re:non-removable programmable SIM so ATT can lock (Score:5, Interesting)
He, he, you're too late buddy. Why do you think batteries are soldered to the phones now?
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Always until I cut one trace to the IC, or lift it entirely. On the other hand, they're making it harder and harder to open the case without destroying the harware...
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An active cellular card is effectively a backdoor into your computer. If your computer is connected to your network, then it's also a backdoor into your network.
I doubt it would take much in the way of malware . . . . er . . . . NIT as the FBI calls it, to enable that cellular interface without telling you about it.
Some cooperation from the local telco would authorize the SIM on their network and presto, instant access from everywhere.
As it stands now, any device I own that has a cellular interface resides
Surface has that NOW (Score:2)
Microsoft does have cellular Surfaces, which work w/ GSM networks like AT&T and T-Mobile, but unfortunately, not w/ Verizon or Sprint. The lack of Verizon is one of the things that kept me from getting one.
They should do two types of Surfaces - just like everyone does w/ cellphones. One that comes unlocked, but where one can put in anyone's SIM: such a thing would be particularly useful in foreign GSM markets. The other can be locked down w/ whatever - Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, et al. So if one
Enough of this foolishness (Score:4, Insightful)
Sorry, but I don't need another data plan in addition to my phone. I'll just hotspot from my phone plan as needed.
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I feel the same way. I can't imagine a reason I would want multiple wireless devices. Tethering serves the purpose well enough, and really, where I am, wireless data limits are low enough that I would never want my notebook just being able to connect to the wireless network willy nilly.
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Just what Corporate Security needs... (Score:5, Insightful)
...another fucking interface to hack.
While you've got the hood popped, why not just IoT the BIOS while you're at it.
Yet another design change justified by maximizing recurring revenue for vendors. I grow very tired of being told what I want in a product. Shit is getting old.
Re:Just what Corporate Security needs... (Score:5, Insightful)
This. You have your internal network nice and secure, and then a blackhat uses the cell interface to enable IP forwarding and turn a PC into an open gateway to the Internet for all and sundry to get on the subnet.
Re: Just what Corporate Security needs... (Score:2)
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Then take your "NO SALE" and enjoy paying three times as much for a customized laptop without the "feature".
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Personally, I want the ability to unplug and physically remove the antenna, and a little clear window on the device showing its absence on a quick visual inspection. Just one of these laptops can mean a complete and udder compromise of a company network on a massive scale. Even worse, an IDS/IPS internally wouldn't see the cellular traffic.
Even better, I'd like makers to have some extension in the model name showing this feature is present, so I know what models to avoid.
There are very few things I can th
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... a complete and udder compromise ...
Were you the one who kept writing the "moo cows" posts that were so common here before the "app apps" posts took over?
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sexconker would be the culprit my dude. He forget to check the post anonymously box a while back and busted himself.
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Very true... but there is a difference between a software setting that can have an "accidental" debug mode which allows it to be turned on somehow and some mechanism ensuring it is off, and not coming on.
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Or your user finds some way to enable it so they can watch for Facebook posts.
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eh, they'll go too far at some point and a startup will fill the void. Carpe diem.
That void will be made illegal by the Free 'Murica Act, because you know, we'll have to think of the terrorist children by then.
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I have heard that the AMT stuff is only physically bound to the primary interface in a system. Even if it isn't you could use an add-in NIC which will bypass AMT altogether.
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I have heard that the AMT stuff is only physically bound to the primary interface in a system. Even if it isn't you could use an add-in NIC which will bypass AMT altogether.
Except you can't, because they're taking expansion slots out of devices. You can use an add-on NIC dongle, but those are inferior and overpriced.
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Just have the bootstrap on the device and download the OS from the cloud at each reboot.
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What a marvelous idea you have! And think of all the crimes of stolen laptops you can solve with an unremovable connection at the BIOS level! And, in time, less robberies. Less burglaries as well, I guess. Everything implemented in the most user friendly way possible of course. No need to be bothered installing your own, imperfect, anti-theft services. The 'cloud' will solve it all (including the breezy feel in your cranium).
How much safer this world will be! That pesky bit of freedom we have to offer for t
Re:Just what Corporate Security needs... (Score:4, Insightful)
If Microsoft ever implements mobile connection technology in PC-grade equipment, before I even remotely would touch that stuff, I want a guarantee I can swap out/backup/etc e-SIMs in that hardware myself AND hardware-switch enable/disable the feature. Yes, I want a ****** button and traces on the PCB I can follow that show me the hardware can be disabled.
Have you not seen what Apple has done with their "Pro" grade portable assets and the profit margins they enjoy with designing a sealed box, with all upgrade paths soldered permanently to the chassis?
Don't assume for a HFT-trading millisecond that any Board of Directors isn't going to clone that fucking profit model.
The future of portable computing has already been defined, based on corporate greed.
In short, fuck what you want. You'll get whatever maximizes their revenue.
Oh, and I fully expect a push from corporate lobbyists to make DIY illegal in some way, so you can forget about that build-it-yourself Kickstarter idea to re-enable the concept of choice...
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Oh, and I fully expect a push from corporate lobbyists to make DIY illegal in some way, so you can forget about that build-it-yourself Kickstarter idea to re-enable the concept of choice...
That's not realistic, there's no real way for them to do that without impinging on their own freedoms. But they might well lobby for laws which make modifying their product illegal...
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Oh, and I fully expect a push from corporate lobbyists to make DIY illegal in some way, so you can forget about that build-it-yourself Kickstarter idea to re-enable the concept of choice...
That's not realistic, there's no real way for them to do that without impinging on their own freedoms. But they might well lobby for laws which make modifying their product illegal...
Based on USPTO activity for the last decade, the mega-corps have already patented their "freedoms", thus nullifying any concerns about deploying the jack-booted lobbyist army.
Re:Just what Corporate Security needs... (Score:4, Informative)
Because this has never been done before. Cellular cards have been included with laptops before, the Dell Latitude line used to have this as an option, and it was extremely convenient to have for remote workers who could not get a Internet connection. Maybe get off your high horse and quit being a baby and think about what the consumer might want.
Perhaps you were too busy ranting and didn't see that whole non-removable part in TFS. Clone an embedded SIM and enable a data stream without a users knowledge? Oh right, 'cause that shit that would never happen.
And after seeing what Apple did with their "Pro" line of hardware, feel free to provide evidence that manufacturers give a flying fuck about what you want. You'll get whatever maximizes their revenue, and like it.
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Next step - Windows wont start up if no valid data carrier is found.
Monthly pricing is yet to be announced...
The Microsoft business plan (Score:5, Interesting)
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Not so much kill the PC, as convert PC into the phone that they could not sell to the masses.
"Noone is buying our new phone any more than our old phone, but they are still buying PCs. Let's convert it right under their noses to a phone that won't fit in their pocket. After they get used to it, we can start shrinking them down in size until it becomes their new phone. Our phone, not robo or peach.... then we Win! Doh!"
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How about both? A terminal as stupid as possible where everything you run is on their servers. Unless you have decent coverage you won't even be able to call an emergency service because you need to download the emergency service app first.
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Ditching their bread and butter for foreign territory? Sounds risky but also sounds like MS needs to take* more risks.
* and stick with!!! no rebranding, no flash in the pan then extinguishing zune/band/kin/etc
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If the NSA approves it.
Pre-derail-derail: Something something Trump something Clinton something Putin something something Brexit something Westworld!
Is it a keyword list for triggering Echelon or something?
I haven't seen these for quite some time.
Re: Internet of Ears (Score:2)
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Something something Trump something Clinton something Putin something something Brexit something Westworld!
That's a pretty weird list of items to wear on your wedding day.
How about asking if consumers want it? (Score:5, Insightful)
That seems like a much better question than if the carriers would do it. Since, you know, that would be the first step to convincing the carriers to get on board. By showing demand.
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Since when do consumer wishes come into play? Did you want thinner phones that require a cover now?
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I'm pretty sure this is HOW they ask users if they want it... announce it's coming, then listen to slashdot for the neckbeards to revolt. Then when they notice that nerds don't want it, but among normal people are a big enough market... they move forward.
Not a chance in hell (Score:1)
Wow the tech industry has an incredibly short memory. Do you remember how cellular carriers had to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into the smartphone era? They don't want "unapproved devices" running on their networks, where "unapproved devices" means anything running software they don't like.
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Because not everybody already carries a smartphone with a tethering-enabled data plan.
Re: It makes sense (Score:4, Informative)
Dell Wireless 5520 (3G HSDPA) works for me in *buntu and derivates.
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Yup. All of them.
Latency? (Score:3)
I assume they're going to make sure you get as good or better latency than a wired connection?
I also assume they're going to pressure carriers into providing proper data plans, not like my phone's plan that just this month got upgraded to all of 500 MB monthly data?
If no to either one of these (and likely a lot more caveats by people smarter than me) then no to even considering it being possibly a good idea.
I'd pay for data...if all updates are free (Score:5, Insightful)
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Why do my back hairs ruffle whenever I read the word "Microsoft" next to the word "non-removable"?
Just don't buy any Microsoft butt plugs!
iPads have cell radios (Score:2)
You can buy monthly plans through the carriers. I haven't needed it since my Nexus phone has a hotspot feature.
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
Only if (Score:2)
If locked to one carrier the answer is
Drill (Score:3)
Meet cellular modem chip.
Ahahaha (Score:2)
>purchase cellular data for those cards through the Windows Store
Cloning somebody's SIM card has just got much easier!
One more reason to close the book on MS (Score:2)
Microsoft is just a joke and a meme anymore than an actual good choice for software. Windows 10 has been a complete failure, and Windows Phones are an even bigger failure. And now Microsoft has decided to double down to attempt to drag more people into their honey pot and walled gardens by running all of it's security through a cell phone carrier that your going to have to pay to keep using.
No thank you Microsoft. I hate your phones, and I hate your direction in the OS market. So I'm not going to buy yo
The Micro$oft Piece (Score:2)
Phone PC's (Score:2)
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Yawn. (Score:2)
Is it *really* that big a deal outside the sealed & laminated Apple universe to just stick a mPCIe slot on the mobo's underside, cover it with a tiny hatch, and pre-embed suitable antennas for it in the display & run the wires to that same hatch/slot? Most mid+ end laptops *already* have an extra mPCIe slot (though only high-end corporate laptops usually advertise it as a feature & make it officially accessible for things like cellular modems... in most mid-range laptops, it's more like a forgot
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There is a lot of pressure for laptops to be as thin and light as possible - it's one of the main factors people take into consideration when choosing a laptop. Just as in phones, compromises are made to reduce thickness and weight. Removable components take up more space, so they have to go.
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There is a lot of pressure for laptops to be as thin and light as possible - it's one of the main factors people take into consideration when choosing a laptop. Just as in phones, compromises are made to reduce thickness and weight. Removable components take up more space, so they have to go.
Let's try this again.
Removable components imply that an end-user could actually perform their own upgrades, using cheaper 3rd party components.
Soldering every fucking thing to the chassis and sealing the case shut enables corporations to charge you whatever the hell they want for every upgrade, forced upon consumers at the time of purchase.
Fuck You Very Much Apple for paving the path to enslaving the consumer. No company is going to make hardware any other way now. Your profit margins make that quite cle
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The vast majority of end users do not perform upgrades of even their PCs, let alone their laptops. For most, a laptop is an appliance and they are happy with it that way. More, the need to constantly upgrade components to stay useful has slowed. Decent hardware that's five years old is still useful. The top end still moves one, and there are still people who genuinely need as much speed or power as they can get, but the bulk of the market does not.
Wanting a laptop that's easy to upgrade is a feature that a
Tethering (Score:2)
Has MS not heard of this? You won't need to fumble with sims or have multiple asubscriptions.. This is already solved.
The worst of Treacherous Computing + carriers. (Score:2)
All that Microsoft wants to do is shove TC in a device when people really don't want it.
"help them better manage the use of data plans" (Score:2)
Getting carriers on-board is tough but worth a try (Score:2)
Microsoft itself won't be selling the majority of these devices, though I expect we will see a Surface 4 and possibly finally see a Surface Mini. I think the non-removable part is mostly about making it possible to make the devices thinner and less expensive to manufacture by eliminating the SIM slot, with getting to market the plans being a side benefit. It's also possible that Microsoft's real goal here is to use their muscle to get lower prices for cellular data, which would improve sales of their device
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