Ask Slashdot: Suitable Phone For a 4-Year Old? 682
blogologue writes "I have a kid that's turning 4-years old soon, and I'm not able to be with him as often as I want to. To remedy this, I'm looking into whether or not getting him a phone could be a good idea to keep in touch. Being able to have a video chat is important, and as it is rare that a 4-year old has a mobile phone, and because he's got other things to do, it would be good to be able to turn off for example games and so on during time in the kindergarten. So other kids don't go around asking their parents for a smartphone. The main reason for getting the phone is keeping in touch, and as a bonus it can function as a device for games and so on during allowed times. Are there any phones that are suitable for such use? I don't mind if it's Android, iOS or something else, as long as it can be used to make video calls to other Android/iOS phones, and if it features other applications such as games, have limited, pre-defined functionality during certain periods of the day."
Are you serious? (Score:4, Insightful)
Are you serious?
The most "suitable" phone for a 4 year old is one without a battery.
Really, you need to focus on more important things for your child at that age.
Re:Are you serious? (Score:5, Insightful)
Sounds like the parent and child are separated. Nothing wrong with trying to stay connected at a distance...assuming whoever is with the kiddo is aware/approving.
Re:Are you serious? (Score:5, Informative)
Sounds like the parent and child are separated. Nothing wrong with trying to stay connected at a distance...
Giving a 4 year old a phone is not the solution to that problem.
By the way, my wife and I Skype three times a week with our grandchildren who are about that age. Works much better than handing them a phone.
Re:Are you serious? (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly. If you can't be there, skype or some other solution while they're at home is a much better solution than giving them an expensive electronic device that will serve as a distraction to them at school. Not to mention any 4 year old I've ever known will quickly break or lose it. Buy a webcam, attach it to the PC, and call every evening. Or get a tablet, but make it stay at home. There's no advantages to the cell phone, and a lot of negatives.
Re:Are you serious? (Score:5, Insightful)
Sounds like the parent and child are separated. Nothing wrong with trying to stay connected at a distance...assuming whoever is with the kiddo is aware/approving.
Whoever is with the kiddo is insanely likely to have at least one cell phone which they can hand to the kid once a phone call has been made.
This whole question smells very, very bad. It's made clear that this phone will go to kindergarten with the kid. Really? Because a four-year-old might possibly just need to "stay in touch" while at school? Really?
Then let's pay attention that the OS doesn't matter as long as it can do video chat to other IO/Android devices. Note that it's not phrased as "I have an X, so I need it to be able to video chat with that." No. Options. Because the four-year-old needs to be able to video chat with anyone. Now, sure, maybe they're just being proactive and they know they can't predict what phone they'll have in two years, six months, or fifteen minutes, but that's still shady.
Oh, but wait. Where's the bit about "how do I make sure this phone isn't lost, stolen, or used inapropriately?" Where's the usual questions about parental controls? Mmmm?
Right. Because this question is probably bunk. Or very, very ill-thought-out.
Re: (Score:2)
I know a number of children of divorce, and others whose parents are traveling overseas for work. I know one colleague who schedules a voice or video call with their child every day. The child's parents have agreed should have a phone in their school bag to "call mom or dad" in case they anything happens. It's a very limited, very cheap, used phone, so there are no complex games on it: the child is 8. The child also has a lot of allergies and a very strict diet, so the parents have had several heated argume
Re: (Score:3)
Buy the kid a Nexus 5. Root it. Install Ubuntu. Don't do everything for him. Let him figure it out. Don't turn him into another one of these kids that can't even write a simple script.
That would still be encouraging him to the "everything is handed to you on a silver platter" thinking model. The best idea for the kid's future is to start him working on his own script interpreter as early as possible.
Re: (Score:3)
That would still be encouraging him to the "everything is handed to you on a silver platter" thinking model.
Exactly. The best thing would be to ship him off for a job at a meat-packing plant, so he can earn the money to buy his own fucking phone.
Re:Are you serious? (Score:5, Funny)
But that would be completely disregarding the trials of the current job market. The best thing would be to get your 4-year-old's CV onto Monster.com as soon as possible.
Et-hem I think you mean Dice.com, the Number One source for career advice for engineering and technology professionals. Please turn in you /. account.
No phone (Score:2)
No hone is suitable for a 4 year old.
yeah no (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
Did you even read the summary, or did you just comment based on the title? The poster doesn't want a phone to keep his child occupied, he wants it so his kid can contact him if needed - he explicitly says he wants to be able to disable entertainment functionality.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:yeah no (Score:4, Insightful)
The kid is 4. If he 'misses his bus' then something is catastrophically wrong, because a 4 year old should not go to the bus stop and find his way home by himself. Dealing with a 4 year old is at the basic principle- no different from transporting a prisoner. They should always be in the care of someone: a teacher, guardian, babysit, parent, ...
If you have to wonder if a 4 year old kid will make it home by himself in time for diner, then you're doing it wrong.
I agree there are many applications where allowing a toddler on the phone is nice. But he shouldn't need it to fend for himself.
Not sure if this is what you're looking for... (Score:4, Informative)
https://www.kytephone.com/ [kytephone.com] Looks like it's a device administrator app or something like that. Worth looking at...?
Direct store link: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.kytephone [google.com] Looks like it's got pretty good reviews.
In other words: Maybe get a super cheap android phone and stick this on it...
Nothing too good for the fruit of my loins (Score:5, Funny)
64GB iPhone 5 with gold plating plus $10,000 iTunes credit.
Get that over-reaching sense of entitlement embedded early.
Re: Nothing too good for the fruit of my loins (Score:5, Funny)
Just make sure to get it insured. The "I Can Go Potty Myself" app frequently crashes the whole phone... Into the toilet.
At four (Score:5, Funny)
The best phones are the plastic ones you buy at the local bric-a-brac store. Sometimes these phones even let you call Elmo who will say "Hello", sing a song and wait for you to call the next person
Re: (Score:2)
Re:At four (Score:5, Funny)
My daughter had one at that age. Every so often it rang, and Barbie talked to my daughter. Usually something along the lines of, "Let's go ... to a party ... today," or "Do you want to go ... to the beach ... this weekend?" So, basically, three part sentences, randomized. My daughter was just 3 or 4, and knew it wasn't really Barbie, but she would talk to her each time Barbie called.
One day, after the phone rang and Barbie and my daughter had a chat, my mother-in-law asked is a very confused and exasperated voice "Who keeps calling her?"
She actually thought it was a real phone. She was in her 80s at the time, so it wasn't very surprising. But it was hilarious. :^)
Re: (Score:3)
Actually, you don't even need one of those, when you can pick up, at your local grocery store, a bananaphone [wikipedia.org].
Don't (Score:5, Insightful)
Surgical Attach Him to Your Back (Score:5, Funny)
Perhaps a Smart Watch. (Score:2)
Still a few bugs to get sorted out with the current developer edition, but it is a phone with GPS and a few other niceties in a watch form factor making it difficult for a child of that age to lose.
Not unless your son is a Vulcan... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
And here I thought you were arguing that a four-year-old's cognitive abilities were not as advanced as an adult's. Looks like you meant they weren't as degraded.
No (Score:5, Informative)
this (Score:2)
http://www.fisher-price.com/en_US/brands/laughandlearn/products/38776 [fisher-price.com]
You're welcome.
Technology applied at the wrong end (Score:3)
You need technology to free up more of your time so you can spend it with him.
Perhaps automation can help?
Reason for mobile unclear... (Score:3)
I understand you want to keep in touch, but I'm at a loss for why this needs to be a mobile device, particularly one that a 4 (!) year old is likely to use, and that's not even approaching the problems with having a 4 year old use a multipurpose device like this.
Perhaps it would help to clarify why this has to be mobile? Why do you need to bug him at school? If he's at a home, why is Skype insufficient? Why is using a mobile device required? He will forget to charge it, lose it, and be unable to use for anything else if you lock it down.
Iphone 4 is free now (Score:3)
I have a 4 year old that knows how to FaceTime, knows where to look at in contacts and knows who is who. You can lock the phone down. I'm assuming you are traveling or getting divorced and reserving judgment unlike most on here.
don't (Score:5, Insightful)
Nabi (Score:2)
If you read the comments on Facebook you will see it has it's share of problems, however:
The Nabi is an Android tablet aimed at kids including 4-year-olds. It has age-appropriate software and parental controls that let you lock it down and install Skype. All the child needs is a wi-fi connection and a parent to help set up and explain.
(Flame war tags: Facebook, Android, lock down, child, age-appropriate, parent, Skype)
Ignore the naysayers! Save your kid and do it! (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3)
The moral of this story? If your kid needs mobile LTE internet, better give him a phone
Why would a 4 year old ever "need" mobile LTE internet, especially to the point where they need their own device?
Re:Ignore the naysayers! Save your kid and do it! (Score:5, Insightful)
I would have loved to have had such a device and wish I did have one at that age.
The thing is, its the job of the parent to say no to things that the kid wants that wont be beneficial. Instant gratification taught to the child @ 4 is not a good start to life.
If your kid needs mobile LTE internet, better give him a phone. Otherwise, he's going to get an early start on subversive behavior, perhaps stealing other people's phones.
"If I dont spoil my child he will do bad things" is a terrible justification. If your child does "subversive behavior", you use discipline, and he becomes a better person.
Fisher Price (Score:4, Informative)
Tablet or laptop, not a phone (Score:4, Interesting)
If you mean you can't keep in touch because you're a business traveller or divorced or something, get a laptop with a webcam, or a tablet, and have him leave it at home. If you want video games, get a DS or something... It's better at games than the phone will ever be, and the times when he's not allowed to game are easily managed by not letting him have it (or open it, or whatever) during those times.
If you mean to keep in touch during the day... Please don't. At this stage in his development he needs to learn how to live without his parents a couple hours at a time.
The kind that takes 14 years to deliver. (Score:2, Insightful)
The kind that takes 14 years to deliver. You know, like when your kid is old enough to legally enter into a contract with a cell phone provider.
An old phone, or better an old iPad (Score:5, Informative)
When my son was 4 I gave him my Droid Incredible, which was deactivated when I upgraded. He liked it, and would play angry birds sometimes. He also took pictures (the camera isn't great but it's better than pretty much any kid's camera available) and listened to music on it. It was pretty impressive the way he customized the device, too.
My friend gave his son, who is a little younger, an iPod Touch and an iPad around the same time. I know his son uses his devices more than mine.
Contrary to the bulk of these responses, both children were up to the task of having and caring for a modern touchscreen device. You'll want to slap on a good case, and you need to know you can trust your child with it, but they're fine.
As for the recommendation... Well, this is an area where Android is playing catch-up with iOS. iOS has lots of parental controls so you can lock down default apps and prevent installation of unauthorized apps. I don't think either OS is particularly easier to learn, but the ability to control some aspects of the OS might make this an easier sell to the child's other parent, or just easier to monitor for you. If you get an Android device, I suggest you get one that can use the user profile features in Android 4.3 (it was added in 4.2 but there's more control in 4.3.)
However, I'm not sure a phone is really necessary. In fact, I think a phone would be more likely to be dragged around when not needed and more easily lost. It's more likely to become a nuisance. Since your son won't be with you, you have to consider the people he will be with. You don't want the device to become a problem and be taken away.
I would suggest an older device, this way it's less of a loss if it's broken or lost. At this point, you could easily get an older iPhone, iPod Touch, or iPad. A first generation Nexus 7 isn't a bad choice either. I'd go with one of the tablets, personally. They're better for video chats.
An actual answer (Score:4, Informative)
Smart phone and video chat is probably out of the question for a few years. At 4 years old I would be concerned he's too young to even handle a device like a Migo. Be prepared for lots of accidental calls to 911
Best of luck with everything!
Re: (Score:3)
Sometimes in life someone will ask you a bad question whose only purpose is to make a terrible mistake. Like, "Im thinking of going for a joyride in a blizzard. Should I use 3rd gear, or second?"
When that happens, the best thing you can do is to tell the person that they are headed down a terrible path. Telling them "I dont want to pry into your life, so use second gear" shows that you dont give a hoot about them.
In this case, the question is sufficiently wrong that the only considerate and caring thing
iOS works fine (Score:5, Informative)
I'm a firefighter, my wife's a paramedic...we're away from our kids (not simultaneously) for 24 hours each shift.
Facetime is a wonderful thing for when one of them needs, well, a little facetime with whatever parent is at work. They get to chat with grandparents as well.
We bought a couple of refurbed iPod touches, put them in otterboxes, threw a few apps on them, and handed them over. They can facetime us as long as they have wifi (at our house, family, close friends), their texting is limited to iMessage and locked down to the existing contacts...this way they have an opportunity to learn proper etiquette and manners about the phone and texting and pictures.
They're 7 and 8, have had this for two years, and they're not little tech junkies. Also, I'm not paying an extra $40 per month per kid for connectivity that's only occasionally necessary.
Re:iOS works fine (Score:4, Interesting)
It may seem harmful or scary from an adult perspective for a kid to go without seeing one parent for 24+ hours on a regular basis, but a lot of today's adults were actually raised under shared custody -- and speaking from firsthand experience that did the 24-hour approach with a sibling, it was in many ways a *good* thing.
My brother and I started shuttling between homes when we were around 4 & 9 years old (now 31 & 36): Dad had M&W nights plus alternated Friday night & weekends, Mom took us after school plus T/Th & alternating Friday & weekends. We knew we'd see the non-custodial parent within 24 hours, were kept busy being kids & following household routine, and so all we did was look forward to telling him/her any interesting news the next time we were there, just like we'd do with friends. We ended up being extremely close to both parents all through our childhood & onwards.
Something from experience to seriously consider: there are developmental stages where a kid's instincts tell them to pull away emotionally/communicatively, and what starts out as a nice way to keep in touch when you're needed can eventually turn into them feeling uncomfortably obligated to reach out to avoid hurting your feelings. When I went through that to a limited degree with my parents, making myself ignore the growing instinctive need to pull away from them for years made it harder on all of us and had a lot of unpleasant repercussions.
Suggestion: NO PHONE! (Score:3, Interesting)
Uh. The kid is like...FOUR!
Not saying they're too stupid to use a phone or too irresponsible to keep/maintain one.
But they're four years old.
Try to remember back to the time when YOU were four.
Remember how adult and responsible and totally "with it" you were?
Kinda tough eh?
If you want to keep in touch with your rugrat, talk with his care provider and look at possibly setting up a computer with Skype or something.
But a phone at that age is just way too much, way too soon.
Get him an iPad (Score:3)
Your 4-year old will stick around the home most of the time anyway. Get him a WiFi iPad. Lock it down, put some games on it, call through Facetime.
Avoid that Android stuff, it is way too hackable and not nearly as easy to lock down. 4-year olds are crafty IT demi-gods.
Can your 4 year old read? (Score:3)
Some thoughts ... (Score:3)
As others have mentioned, arrange a time and have an adult help your child use Skype (or something along those lines). After all, you need to keep in touch with your child. You don't need to be able to contact them 24/7, nor do they need to contact you 24/7.
The benefits of this approach are enormous. It is much less expensive. You don't have to worry about the phone being lost or broken. You don't have to fret about them using it at inappropriate times since it is much easier to monitor a computer (or livingroom game console if you let them play video games). It will be easier to encourage them to get out and play with friends, or to play with toys that they manipulate physically. That's important, since toys encourage more imagination than games (or videos, or books for that matter). Scheduled calls also help to establish routines, rather than impulsive behaviours.
Think about it.
Phone for the caretakers, not for him (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't get HIM a phone. If you must, get a phone that you hand off to his teachers/day-care/babysitters when you aren't around, so you can call in an emergency and so they can call you from a number you recognize in an emergency.
Once you've established that it will be adults in control of the phone, just get any old phone that can do video chat and which is on your network.
But a 4 year old with a phone in his possession, for him to be responsible for? Unless you have very unique requirements and a very responsible almost-4-year-old kid, this is probably not a good idea.
School District Reality Check (Score:3)
Tech is not going to -fix- this. It could help, but I would recommend a more structured approach, i.e. a schedule, and another adult facilitating the connection.
Now, as to having him be able to get in touch with you when needed, unless things have changed drastically, or are different where he lives, you will find that schools do not allow students to have phones on their persons during the school day. If you are lucky, they will permit it, powered off, in the locker, which is hardly of practical use in situations where he would NEED it, and my kids did not get lockers until grade 6 or 7. Set him up with a phone at age 4, the schools will deprive him of it at age 6 or so, defeating the purpose, and causing unneeded stress.
Short answer, bad idea, for a lot of reasons, not the least of which it's just impractical.
-Red
Tablet with Skype (Score:3)
And seriously, make time for him. This is not a substitute. It's a way to contact him on the weekdays.
The only phone for a 4-yr old is (Score:3)
The only phone for a 4-yr old is full of candy.
A cellphone is replacing family!!?? (Score:5, Interesting)
Just so you know, I am a Stay At Home Dad and have been nothing else for 20 years. When Marissa Miller pulled the plug on working at home it was this sort of half halfheartedness that she was shaking out of Yahoo's business model. If your are working, then work and give either your employer or customers your complete attention. If you find yourself unable to separate from your child then stay home. You can't do both. Don't lie to yourself and your child that a cellphone is a replacement for your being there. It's not. When I married my wife we decided that childcare was of paramount importance. Since she was a well paid professional and I was a struggling student (Yes, I got that lucky), I stayed home. The son went to school in the day and I went at night, or he stayed with family. Yes, Family! You didn't disturb Mommy; Auntie, or Grandma, or Uncle or me or whoever took care of what needed doing. There was somebody who's job it was, and is, to take care of my son. As more children arrived my duties - Think about that word for a moment - Duty; ... my duties have continued. And by the way, Yes, that means I finally didn't finish my degree. Instead, I am there for my children. Yes I've had to sacrifice to do that. My children are worth it.
A 4 year old is not able to handle a phone and is too young to be allowed to make the judgement of when to call you. They need to know to call 911 in an emergency and stay on until help arrives - unless there is a fire, then they get out! Go to someone trusted and have then call for help. That is it. They should be cared for 24-7 and their caregiver will make any calls needed. If you can't trust your child's caregiver to make every fucking decision that needs to be made get another caregiver or do it yourself ! A cell phone will quickly become a stick to bully whomever is the caregiver. "If you don't give me more ice cream I'll call daddy and he'll be angry at you"
Save your money and send your kid to a good school. I always recommend a Montessori if at all possible. You will learn that one of the first steps to raising a healthy, happy and independent adult is having them learn to separate. They start to learn this at about 4. Yes you go away, and yes you come back. At school they learn to operate as a member of a society with rules and responsibilities. With family you learn to be part of a family. A mutually dependent social structure. That means every member needs every other. This is what you want, to raise a good person.
Do not get your 4yo a phone (Score:4, Informative)
I'm going to assume that this isn't just a troll post. It is a pretty freaking ignorant question.
Wearing every single one of my hats (teacher, parent, part-time academic in linguistics (and, in particular, child language acquisition), techie, etc.), I'm going to claims some authority when I say this: DO NOT GET YOUR 4YO A PHONE. Mostly I'm adding to the chorus above, so I'm not going to bother rehashing the reasons against that everyone has already given, but I will add a couple more in dot points:
@ We have enough problems with the social reliance on phones in adulthood, but in early adolescence it's a disaster, let alone infancy. For adolescents, phones bring with it all sorts of problems like increased risk of cyber-bullying, exposure to age-inappropriate content, and problems with Google/Apple sponsored apps^h^h^h^hscams. There is no good way to stop this for teenagers, so how are you planning to stop it for a toddler?
@ Remote parenting does not work, and fairly consistently causes problems - you know all those parents whose Dads were at work until late at night? How did they turn out?
@ There is no type of "play" involving a phone that isn't better done by a kid, physically, in the real world. A block sorting game on a phone? Brilliant, why not do it in real life?
Re: (Score:2)
I would never give a phone to a four year old, but the idea that they don't understand it is ridiculous. My 2 year old knows exactly what a phone is for (my wife and I have identical dumb-phones), and she knows several uses to which an iPad can be put. I imagine that at 4 she will be rather competent at using both.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Why did you have the kid if you can't be with him? Seriously, don't fuck his head up with a phone at that age. If you can't be with him, make the best of when you can, or stop choosing whatever you chose instead of him. Your fault if he grows fucked up.
Says the single guy who can't even comprehend life-changing events like having a child.
News Flash: Life happens. Even when you plan on having children, one cannot even remotely plan for every event forthcoming (especially four years later) that would elicit the need for a 4-year old to have a cell phone.
And if you would have shown even an inkling of experience in parenting in your smart-ass comments, you might have seen that.
So, either father a child yourself and then come to the adult table to talk shop,
Re:4 years (Score:5, Insightful)
News Flash: Life happens. Even when you plan on having children, one cannot even remotely plan for every event forthcoming (especially four years later) that would elicit the need for a 4-year old to have a cell phone.
News flash:
Some separated parents don't have as much access to the kid(s) as they would like.
If the mother's anything like the description she's probably already filled the kid's head with lies about misogynist-daddy and a phone won't fix anything.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
"Says the single guy who can't even comprehend life-changing events like having a child.... So, either father a child yourself and then come to the adult table to talk shop, or kindly STFU."
What is this, prehistory before writing, language, or contraception were invented?
Some of us can (a) read, (b) learn without direct personal experience, (c) understand that having a kid is not worth the hassle, and (d) take action in avoiding procreation. It's green and helps the earth, to boot. But have fun self-righteo
Re:4 years (Score:4, Funny)
(c) understand that having a kid is not worth the hassle, and (d) take action in avoiding procreation. It's green and helps the earth, to boot.
I'm assuming that you are glad that your parents didn't feel the same way instead of having you?
Re:4 years (Score:5, Interesting)
Oh, you asked for this and all the others that modded you up, you AC, you!
Says the single guy who can't even comprehend life-changing events like having a child.
Ummm, so life changing events only happen to married people with children? And, I'm sorry but even single guys had childhoods and would have the ability later to recognize when one is about to get fucked up.
News Flash: Life happens. Even when you plan on having children, one cannot even remotely plan for every event forthcoming (especially four years later) that would elicit the need for a 4-year old to have a cell phone.
And if you would have shown even an inkling of experience in parenting in your smart-ass comments, you might have seen that.
There is *NO* reason a four year old "needs" a cell phone. None, zip, zero. If you were a reasonably sane adult you would know exactly why!
So, either father a child yourself and then come to the adult table to talk shop, or kindly STFU.
Again, you have to father a child to be an adult and talk "shop"? WTFTM
And no, it's not every parents fault if a kid grows "fucked up". That is likely more due to the influence of ignorance coming from society, as you have so deftly demonstrated.
Again, had you a shred of experience in this matter, you might have known that.
Actually, there are hundreds of studies that show that most fucked up children get fucked up by the home environment they are brought up in, [google.com] i.e., Mom and Dad did it. "Fucked up" children seek acceptance and emotional support from outside the family and often in or with the wrong people that end up reinforcing bad behavior or leading them into new bad behaviors, all to get back at Mommy and/or Daddy. The "influence of ignorance coming from society" is the finger pointing BS that every bad parent tries to run up the flag pole to duck blame for their effed up child. One only wonders how many of yours need psychotherapy.
To the OP, cellphones aren't allowed in university classrooms let alone kindergarten. You truly are cracked and should get some help for yourself before you really screw things up. The child is young enough to forget this stupid crap if you stop now and think of something other than your needs, because that cell phone is certainly NOT fulfilling any four-year old's needs. Based on what I've read so far I'd say the child would be better off away from you and the mother, frankly.
Re:4 years (Score:4, Interesting)
You are selling your kid short. My daughter is 4 and has figured out SO MANY things already using various tablets and phones. It's really amazing to watch them figure things out.
Re:4 years (Score:5, Insightful)
1. You don't need to be a baker to know when you have a bad pie. (In case you don't get analogies: You do don't need to be a parent to spot a bad one)
2. I AM a father of 2 and I can't imagine a case EVER where a 4 year old *needs* a phone. Just about every comment on here condemning the premise (and parent) that a 4 year old should have a phone is spot on.
3. Best "phone" for a 4 year old is an old one with the battery taken out. Our kids loved these. Sometimes a block of wood worked just fine (yes, in our household we still use wooden blocks and other toys that don't come in fancy packaging, and yes our kids can pretend that just about anything is phone, or a car, or a plane)
-CF
Re:4 years (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, I gave my 3yo daughter an older smartphone with no SIM. She has the annoying "talking tom" app she likes.
By having it accessible and fully functional, I achieve two things:
1. She is not as obssessed with appropriating ours
and
2. This is not a novel thing to be coveted, but rather just another toy. She plays with is maybe an hour a week, much (much much) less than she plays with her dolls.
Of course, the phone stays home. The concept of her going somewhere with it is, more or less, unthinkable to me (though, to be fair, not much different than her taking her favorit doll with her places).
Shachar
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, I gave my 3yo daughter an older smartphone with no SIM. [...]
Most phones, even if you remove the SIM, will allow you to phone the emergency services (999, 911, 112 or whatever). I believe it's a requirement of the GSM standard.
Re:4 years (Score:5, Insightful)
https://d1jqecz1iy566e.cloudfront.net/med2/sb014.jpg
Oh, and for god sake pull your finger out and take your parenting responsibilities seriously.
Yes, I am sure you miss little johnny when you are away from him, so perhaps you need
to spend more time with them when you can, and get used to them having some space
and freedom when you cannot!
Ruining his life with a leash is not a solution to your separation anxiety.
Re: (Score:2)
For the worried, the link is quite SFW.
Re:4 years (Score:5, Insightful)
Amazing how /. technical elite become downright ultra-conservative assholes when traditional subject are concerned. Your post and many others would be the equivalent telling a woman in the 80's that there is no reason she would need a micro-wave if she cannot take the time to cook properly for her family.
There are plenty of cases where a parent is legitimately separated from his kid:
1. divorce: my wife is from a different country - if we divorce and she goes back closer to her family, it would take me at the very least several months to sort things out. My case is easy tough, I can consider moving at all. There are cases where it is simply not easy legally (Australia - UK is already a problem and that's an easy one culturaly, what about China / Russia / Japan) What stuff preventing the guy to move like uninteresting resume, lack of skills.
2. he is deployed, a sailor, or anybody that needs to be months away from home. Maybe he wasn't 4 years ago. Crisis man.
3. crisis. I have friends (with older child) that have had to take work several hundred miles away from home. People hit by the crisis are not the kind that can afford a personal jet for commuting. Moving a family to a new city to follow an unreliable jobs can be expensive and almost as bad for the kids. Not even considering that the kid could have health issue or other specific needs making it even harder to move.
4. shit happens. I known/heard of people being separated for tons of shitty issues like health reasons, legal problems, visa problem.
The reason there used to be no reason for a 4 year old to have a mobile in those situation was because it was socially acceptable to not interact with your kid in those conditions. I have never seen anybody suggesting that we should make a law prohibiting soldier, sailor to have a family for example. There is a possibility this guy is just trying to do better than what society is expecting him to. That is also his fucking right not to expose all the details of his potentially shitty situation.
Re: (Score:3)
No. There is no reason for a 4 year old to have a phone because there is no reason a 4 year old should ever be out of view of an adult.
I grew up on a farm in the upper midwest. Kids are out of sight of parents about 90% of the time, the 4 year olds right with the older siblings. We might have been playing in the barn, or working in the barn feeding the animals, or playing in the pasture behind the barn. Dad was at work, mom was cleaning or cooking or watching soaps (more of the first two than the last one). Being in sight of an adult was not a priority.
Not that a cell phone would be a necessity, but if there were cheap walkie-talkies that
No, I just figured it out. (Score:5, Funny)
Blogologue's 3.9 year old son wants a phone, but doesn't know how to ask daddy for it. So he hacked blogologue's /. account and posted the question. Later he is going to spike his coffee, and make him think he wrote the post himself during a late night of slashdot reading.
That makes the most sense.
Re:4 years (Score:5, Insightful)
Some people have to work. My 6yo daughter has been video chatting me and calling me on the phone at work since she was 3. We can't all retire on childbirth and she is the youngest of five spanning 19 years age. Many of us can be telepresent most of the time though. The modern age is wonderful. When you're 3 almost nothing will wait until daddy gets home. To her pushing a button to get remote facetime with daddy to negotiate a diplomatic solution to an argument or calling him to bring something home is a normal and expected part of how life works. Daddy is always there, no matter where he is. This is disruptive and transformational. This is a child who is going to come of age not understanding how some people are unavailable sometimes because this is the only world she knows. She is precocious, but this is becoming the norm.
I encourage this because when I was three years old access to daddy was something I would never again enjoy in this life to the present day, for even one minute. I feel the lack did not improve my level of joy throughout my life, though I could be wrong. Sometimes daddy is an ass. As my mother is dead I have to accept her judgement on the issue. I can aspire however to be better: to be the available, accessible and good daddy I wished for when I was my youngest daughter's age.
The future is here and it is scary and amazingly awesome.
Re:4 years (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a child who is going to come of age not understanding how some people are unavailable sometimes because this is the only world she knows. She is precocious, but this is becoming the norm.
I'm not sure accepting that creating needy children who have no ability to be patient is a good thing; It will, and is, creating a slave generation. It has been proven time and time again that the ability to delay gratification is directly, and strongly, linked to long-term success as an adult. But if short-term thinking and immediate gratification got us into this mess, surely it can get us out as well.
I encourage this because when I was three years old access to daddy was something I would never again enjoy in this life to the present day, for even one minute. I feel the lack did not improve my level of joy throughout my life, though I could be wrong. Sometimes daddy is an ass. As my mother is dead I have to accept her judgement on the issue. I can aspire however to be better: to be the available, accessible and good daddy I wished for when I was my youngest daughter's age.
This explanation, while heartfelt and readily related to, is not a good reason to be doing what you are doing. A child who always has a parent to do things for him/her is a child who will not grow up. Part of growing up is taking personal responsibility, learning to be patient, and independent problem-solving ability. With an expectation that, with the push of a button, a parent will always be available to solve any problem that might arise, you are sowing weakness into the character of this malleable young person. You are, in a very real way, stunting emotional development.
I know this is an incredibly unpopular thing to say right now, but consider that the first thing we do to a new child born into this world is to slap them in the face. Why would we do that? Willingly induce pain to a brand new life that literally hasn't even been in the world a minute? It's to induce breathing. To get that child sucking down yummy nitrogen-oxygen mixtures. The pain is for the benefit of the child. All too often, letting a child learn something "the hard way" is seen as child abuse, but the reality is that human beings don't learn things by being told, they learn things by doing. And a lot of doing involves screwing up and getting hurt. You can't accomplish or amount to much of anything in life if you aren't willing to endure pain, and struggle, and loss. This is a lesson that has gone missing in the latest generation, and as they start to move into the workforce, we're seeing clear signs that it has created a pathological problem that may take them decades to sort out, and in the interim leave them emotionally, financially, and even physically vulnerable in ways previous generations were not.
The future is here and it is scary and amazingly awesome.
If I hopped in a time machine and went back 40 years and told everyone there that in the future, we will have instant real-time access to all of the knowledge of humanity, and global communication capability with billions of other humans, they would probably be shocked. And when I told them that in spite of these achievements, we mostly use these capabilities to entertain instead of educate, and have so ingrained them into daily life that we have created children incapable of functioning without continuous access to these devices, they would likely be equally shocked. I very much doubt they'd believe that this is how the technology would influence our society, believing it to be some kind of dystopian science fiction written by a hippie who smoked too much pot and got paranoid of the government.
You're right. It's scary and awesome. But on the level, I'm going to go with it being more scary than awesome; Our technology has created an unparalleled degree of dysfunction in the everyday person. But I hope, very much, that I will be wrong in this conclusion and that my inability to see a future in
Re:4 years (Score:5, Insightful)
I know this is an incredibly unpopular thing to say right now, but consider that the first thing we do to a new child born into this world is to slap them in the face. Why would we do that? Willingly induce pain to a brand new life that literally hasn't even been in the world a minute? It's to induce breathing. To get that child sucking down yummy nitrogen-oxygen mixtures. The pain is for the benefit of the child. All too often, letting a child learn something "the hard way" is seen as child abuse, but the reality is that human beings don't learn things by being told, they learn things by doing. And a lot of doing involves screwing up and getting hurt.
I'm all for experiential learning, but I don't know anyone who slaps newborns in the face to get them breathing. (N.B.: I deliver newborns for a living, and work with a bunch of other people who do as well and am aware of their practice patterns.) Babies usually squall on their own just fine, and for those that don't we'll vigorously towel-dry them. For the even smaller subset who're affected by maternal drugs or other conditions and haven't gotten it together to breathe, we'll flick their feet with a back of a finger (along with verbal encouragement, albeit mostly for our own amusement and by way of explanation to concerned parents). If they're still not sucking down oxygen after a couple of minutes then they get a mask to the face or a tube down the trachea. The previous practice of slapping newborns on the ass to kickstart them has been out of fashion ever since I started practice. Of course, practice patterns vary and maybe you live in a face-slapping place.
The ass-slapping turns out to be unnecessary, though I have stood by while my own children attempted to snort juice up into their noses for an experiential lesson in why we might not do that.
Re:Here's the full story. (Score:4, Insightful)
The reason we can't Skype is because her and her fat flabby "she-husband" run around the house naked.
A good lawyer would easily take the kid away from them.
Re:Here's the full story. (Score:5, Interesting)
The short version of the story is, men and children get screwed in divorce courts. A good lawyer is only as effective as the mother wants to let him be.
Re:Here's the full story. (Score:5, Informative)
I pal of mine has spent the last year trying to get his kids returned to him. He had full custody in California, and when the kids went for a 1 week visit to their mother's house in Illinois, the state decided they would just give her full custody and declare it illegal for the children to leave Illinois.
You should talk to your lawyer about that, but I believe the answer is... pursue action against the mother in California. Since she lived there very recently, your state should have clear legal jurisdiction over the matter.
Get a judgement from a court in California, and then go to Illinois to have the judgement enforced.
Or else, try to get criminal charges made against the wife --- she'll want to come answer for the charges, or else face extradition.
Either way... you can't flee across state lines to avoid civil or criminal charges in another state; the judgement made in one state can simply be executed in the other, as long as the judgement is made in a court with jurisdiction over the individual.
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Here's the full story. (Score:5, Insightful)
It matters. A stream of strangers sleeping in the same house, never knowing who's going to be next, is disruptive and unsafe. Those strangers often have direct physical access to the kids, and it should be considered from those grounds, much as running a bed&breakfast in the house should be considered for the child's safety. And if the male, or female lovers have mom over visiting them constantly, what are the arrangements for overnight child care?
The same standards can, and do, apply to single dads who try to date.
Re:Here's the full story. (Score:4, Interesting)
Seen it happen in Texas. Pal of mine had one daughter, married a lady with three kids of her own. She ran off for two years, leaving him with HER kids. She came back seeing her kids from time to time, but never having anything to do with them other than a visit once every couple of weeks. He effectively raised the kids most of their elementary school lives. Then she met another guy, started divorce proceedings, took her kids back (well, I guess they were HER kids, even if they had hardly seen her in the past three years).... but the thing that really gets me is she tried to get him for child support - and he wasn't the biological father of ANY of the kids! And the state was going to allow it! He lost all visitation rights. Yet not once did anyone claim that he had been nothing but a kind, loving, sacrificing father.
In the end, I think that the only thing that ended up happening is she got her kids, no visitation, no child support, and no division of assets. I guess you can say he got out lucky, but he did loose any visitation with the kids he had raised for three years after she abandoned him. At least he got to keep HIS daughter.
I've seen a few other guys have similar issues - loving, kind, caring fathers, mother's a witch, even abusive, but kids will get awarded to the mother or another family member before the father. I've seen courts take kids out of loving households and place them in abusive homes and then try to blame the physical injuries the child has on the parents if someone even made a hint that the father was anything less than perfect and the mother tries to stand up for him.
The system is broken, ran by social workers who are way underpaid and overworked (knew one who was really good, had a masters in the field, top pay in the field was $30k a year, and would often work 14 hour days - but there are tons of bad ones too, or ones who just don't care anymore), and it seems that it is almost easier to send someone to death row over a dad winning custody.
Long story short - men get screwed by the system.
And I guess the moral of the story should be to make sure you really know a person before jumping in bed with them. Sadly, I think many people end up learning that the hard way (if they ever learn it at all).
Re:Here's the full story. (Score:5, Funny)
florida called, they want their title back.
Re: (Score:3)
I assume you're from California, considering it's marked absence from your list...
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You know what, I'm getting very tired at this 'citation needed' crap when someone is clearly providing an anecdote, and not regurgitating research.
It makes you seem smug and smart internally, but really- to anyone with a brain it makes you seem small, petty and very uninteresting.
Re:Here's the full story. (Score:5, Interesting)
A good lawyer would easily take the kid away from them.
Not a chance. Here is the algorithm that divorce courts use to determine custody:
bool
getsCustody(parent)
{
return parent.hasPenis() ? NO : YES;
}
Re:Here's the full story. (Score:5, Funny)
So you're saying there's something he can do about it...
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Such complicated code with unneeded chances for bugs. Use the following instead (assuming parent has already been null and type checked):
bool getsCustody(parent)
{
return !parent.hasPenis()
}
Re:Here's the full story. (Score:5, Insightful)
bool
getsCustody(parent)
{
return parent.hasPenis() ? NO : YES;
}
Code like that belongs on the daily WTF... "parent.hasPenis()" is a boolean function.
Re:Here's the full story. (Score:4, Informative)
You haven't been completely clear, but if the mother has primary custody and wants to limit your misogynist contact, she can obviously control the amount of contact you have. The specific device won't matter if she won't let him use it, or simply takes it away.
If she has called you a misogynist pig in any way that was recorded and which can be proven, you need a lawyer to deal with this I'm presuming you are not actually a misogynist pig, so your wife's unstable slander would be useful if you want to gain more control.
As for specific devices, at 4 your son knows what you look like. Why is video chat better than simple audio phone? There is still this thing in the universe called copper-wired POTS. You can phone at times you both are available (if the mother doesn't interfere) and at 4, you might be able to teach him how to phone you.
Re:Here's the full story. (Score:4, Insightful)
I agree with the gist of what you are saying - buying a phone won't give the father or the child any more control over how and when they communicate. But:
Why is video chat better than simple audio phone?
I travel for work a lot and Skype video is infinitely better then audio phone for talking to my 3-year-old. If I try to talk to her on the phone she will often either lose interest, listen in silence, or say things like 'I'm playing with this." - "What?" - (holds up toy to phone) - "This!" - "But what is it?" - "It's THIS!"
On video I can talk to her, but also watch her doing her own thing, playing, talking to me when she wants to and showing me things for me to comment on. She can see me, understands better that I am there with her, and neither of us are under pressure to come up with random things to say. It's a completely different experience and one that reassures her when she misses me and lets me see what she is up to, how she is progressing, and understand her mood better.
Re: (Score:3)
This is, of course, all assuming AC above is actually the submitter, and not some troll messing with you.
Re:Here's the full story. (Score:5, Insightful)
So for the kids sake, man up and stop being a jerk. There are loads of decisions that you and your former partner must be able to cooperate around, so you must find a way to be civilized around her.
And back to your question, the kid should not have a phone with him to kindergarten. Not only does it disrupt the kindergarten but it will also get destroyed or lost in a week. Even if he is a little kid he must be able to feel he has his own space, not being constantly on guard because daddy might call. Give him a cheap android tablet that he can have around the house. Then he can be in his room and skype you, without you risking seeing naked people.
Re:Here's the full story. (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, yes, yes. Parents really need to understand how their hate towards someone the child loves will fuck up the child. Seriously, this is important: respect the child's mother for the sake of the child.
I cannot even begin to describe how much my life has been fucked up because of the abandonment fears that fighting between my divorced parents caused. I was always living in the household of a parent that I was told was evil and wicked by the other. And then when one parent got too depressed to care for me I was thrown to the other parent who eventually kicked me to the street. I was used as a weapon for my parents to fight. They were too busy with their hate to see how fucked up I became (and I was booted out for being too depressed--my step-mother was going to leave my father if I didn't go).
The article poster needs to ask himself if he wants the child to have 14 years of spiteful and antagonistic relationships between parents before the child is an adult. Does he want the child to develop attachment issues and develop an intense fear of intimacy? Does he want the child to develop mental health problems that may never be resolved? Or can the poster be a man and treat the mother the way that the child would want?
PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS (Score:4, Insightful)
This seems as good a time as any to remind people not to believe everything they read, that there are trolls on the Internet, and responding to them only encourages them.
This is all summed up in the ancient Internet nugget-o-wisdom "please do not feed the trolls".
Cheers for now.
Re:PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: 4 years (Score:5, Insightful)
Dude, back off.
He could be deployed, divorced, hospitalized or whatever.
You have no answer, then just but out.
Re: (Score:3)
Or in the military. This is somewhat common as there's not much control over how much time can be spent at home.
Re: (Score:3)
All you can do is go by what's in the summary. If he doesn't want to get hammered, put in all the relevant facts.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
In one case, the kid talks to her dad all the time on the iPad in FaceTime. That's because Dad has to travel to make money - and that's just a reality. Props to him for having kids. The world needs more smart people.
These kids will turn out fine. A phone isn't going to fuck up a kid.
My advice: Get your kit a tablet and put one of those armored goo-tolerant cases on it. If there's times when they shouldn't use it, explain it's not available. This seems very straightforward.
The kid doesn't need their own phone or tablet for this. If they want to facetime/skype/call a parent out of town, they can ask their other parent/guardian for said device to contact the parent out of town. Just because they can use one doesn't mean they have to own one. 4 year old kids without tablets/phones will turn out fine. Not having a phone isn't going to fuck up a kid. We all did fine without them.
Re: (Score:2)
You do realize these devices are literally like crack to them, right?
You mean these 4 year olds are smoking cell phones? Wowzer.
Better smoking it than heating it up on a spoon and injecting that shit.
Re:There can be only one (Score:4, Interesting)
My child did just fine with a myTouch when he was 4. Some children are destructive, and some children are not. A properly chosen phone is far more rugged than a Nintendo DS, and kids do just fine with those. For less than $50 he could get his kid a used myTouch [swappa.com]. An extra phone line can cost as little as $5 a month. So, for as little as $110 a child can have a father for the next year.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Android 4.3 now has multiple user capabilities, where features can be disabled: http://www.howtogeek.com/170191/share-your-android-tablet-and-keep-your-privacy-with-a-guest-account/ [howtogeek.com]
I'd say have 3 accounts: Admin, for Kindergarten use (no games), and for play time (Kiddie has to ask a parent for the password)...