Microsoft Scraps 'Where's My Phone Update?' Site 162
An anonymous reader writes "Microsoft disappointed some Windows Phone users on Friday by saying it would stop providing specifics about who will get software updates and when, and announcing vaguely that a new update is 'available to all carriers that request it.' The update fixes a few issues, including one that caused the on-screen keyboard to disappear and another that caused problems with synching Gmail. Eric Hautala, general manager of customer experience engineering for Windows Phone, said Microsoft will no longer say when people will get updates based on their country, phone model and carrier."
Apple doesn't get enough credit here (Score:5, Interesting)
They took the phone manufacturers and carries out of the update process. When they release their updates, users of current and recently released devices get the update which they can apply. The other mobile OS makers need to make the same sort of change or they fear annoying what users they have left.
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yea that is a lot easier when you only have one product to support (hint thats apple's magic, similar to how the Model T was really easy to find touch up paint for)
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Enough years have gone by they have a lot of different product lines, and different versions of the same product (different runs of the different parts, that sort of thing).
Getting carriers to go along with that for anyone else is an uphill battle. The iPhone basically got one carrier to agree to this scheme, and everyone else has to go along with it because it's just that awesome (supposedly), and sells that much. But they aren't happy about it, and I'm sure they don't really want to let it happen again.
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Why? One would think that the carriers would enthusiastically support an update that makes the phone easier to use (and thus run up a phone bill).
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No, carriers want you to buy a phone, and then never use it, but pay fees for services you don't use. They hate something like Siri, because it uses bandwidth you've paid for, which costs them money to reliably support. They're rather you paid them for doing nothing.
They also, I think legitimately, got used to the idea that they all had their own networks, and anything on their network needed to be tested on their network. They are liable for support costs if something goes wrong with the phone, they ha
700,000 New Android Phones A Day (Score:3, Interesting)
http://www.businessinsider.com/android-activations-2011-12 [businessinsider.com]
"The other mobile OS makers need to make the same sort of change or they fear annoying what users they have left."
Boggle.
Re:700,000 New Android Phones A Day (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, Android is selling like cocaine hotcakes.
But I, for one, am sick of getting no support from the manufacturers of my last two Android phones. Next time I'm up for a new phone, I am going to give the iPhone very serious consideration.
Maybe it's only nerds like me and other Slashdot posters who care about getting OS updates for their phones, rather than the general market... but it is a major shortcoming of the Android ecosystem when compared to Apple's offering.
Re:700,000 New Android Phones A Day (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, if you want Android but you want to get updates straight from the OS manufacturer like you do with the iPhone... then get a Nexus? That's what they're for.
It's the same as the people who complain about the custom skin on their phone and say they just want plain, vanilla Android. Some people don't care about that, but if you're someone who does, then the Nexus range of phones is specifically designed for you.
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Not always that easy to get a nexus on the carrier you want.
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Plus, they only come out about once a year and tend to be pricey or even unsubsidized (and you don't save money without the subsidy except in certain circumstances that I can't take advantage of - when T-Mobile did offer them the math didn't make sense for a family plan).
I got my G2 for free (subsidized). The only Nexus option at the time that made sense was the Nexus S, which did not offer 4G, and which lacked a keyboard, and which cost $200. I just couldn't see spending $200 more for a phone I generally
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Sorry - self-correction. I'm actually not sure if the Nexus One met my critiera of support for the duration of a contract. First, it wasn't subsidized anyway, and second, it wasn't sold for that long. However, I don't think it got updates for two years from the date of last sale, unlike every iPhone sold to date.
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I live in the USA, but I got my Nexus from UK because I want an operator-agnostic version. The only one you can get in US right now, so far as I know, is from Verizon, and it's inherently locked in to their network.
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I seriously looked at getting a Nexus S, actually. IIRC its radio was not compatible with the frequency spectrum used by the best network around here in Australia (Telstra's NextG network).
The new Nexus Galaxy, happily, does support the UMTS/HSPA bands that are used by Telstra. (The Nexus Galaxy's LTE radio, on the other hand, is completely useless here. The Telstra NextG network LTE rollout has actually started with equipment in city centres and airports, but again, it's on a different frequency spectrum t
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I never got that strategy of releasing a gazillion products all the time in the first place, not for any device. Why does Sony release 100's of more-or-less the same televisions? HP right now has 89 printers on sale [hp.com], and those are only the current models. You see the same thing with virtually every tech company.
As far as I can see, all it accomplishes is a support nightmare. Why doesn't Dell just sell 3 great laptops, 3 great servers and 3 great desktops? Wouldn't that result in both better products and les
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Well, printers range from no-need-to-hurry small home printers to hundred page per minute office printers, there are color, monochrome, jet, laser, duplex and not, networked and not, different paper feeds, and so on and so on.
Same with computers - whole range from "help me through high-school" to "shuffle serious CAD projects".
Smart companies just reduce my-eyes-glaze-over effect from this choice by presenting a few pre-built models and letting you choose options when ordering.
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I just don't buy that argument. Sure, HP needs to make a few different kinds of printers. 10 different models sounds reasonable. Maybe even 20. But 90? That's just insane. The same goes with televisions, computers, everything really, including phones. Offering a single model is a bit extreme, but I think offering 30+ more-or-less the same products is way more bizarre.
You're totally right about the options. I understand that a few base models with each a handful of options will result in an equally huge amou
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HP right now has 89 printers on sale [hp.com], and those are only the current models. You see the same thing with virtually every tech company.
Quite a few of those are the exact same printer but with the optional extra duplex unit/network card/wireless LAN fitted in the factory. The car industry simply calls it one car, several trim levels and gives you a list of optional extras you can choose to have fitted. If they were to call it a separate model name for each trim level and each optional extra, you'd see the same thing.
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Is that really so? Because I've been browsing through HP's offering of printers and I don't really see the overlap. Sure, a few of them are more-or-less the same, but most of what they're selling (at least by the looks) appear to be quite different.
I've just drilled through the A4/letter size ink jets to test this theory. I have made the following assumptions:
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McDonalds sell a million hamburgers a day, so does that mean every hamburger seller must do what McDonalds do?
Android phones range from tacky cheap to quality expensive, so do all it's mainstream competitors need to cover the same range? Of course not. So as usual, pure sales figures are meaningless.
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For every handset vendor to do this you would need to break the control carriers have over the handset market.
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MS isn't the problem (Score:4, Informative)
Just speaking from my experiences with Blackberries, the slowdown always seems to be on the Telco's end. There had been many important updates which were put out by Blackberry... but ATT wouldn't release them for a month, or sometimes a few months, after Blackberry released it.
This is, once again, another example of why these companies need to be "dumb pipes" through which we access the internet. There's no practial reason we can't have a phone which simply connects to the internet for all it's needs, aside from the Telco's blocking it from happening.
What happened to phones that 'Just Work'? (Score:3, Insightful)
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They got 'smart'
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What happened to phones that Just Work? I don't want to update my phone. It must be reliable, just like an analogue wire line phone used to be.
"used to be"? (checks dial tone and breathes sigh of relief).
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Get a Nokia 3310 and be happy.
It Just Works (Even If You Throw It at the Wall). Dare to try that with your sissy smartphones, eh?
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Here you go. [greatcall.com]
Seriously, if people want computer functionality on phones, they're going to have to deal with the associated tradeoffs. A lot of people stick with feature phones for just this reason; I did too until recently. Nothing wrong with either choice as long as it comes from an informed decision.
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convenient for microsoft (Score:2)
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Can't be very serious. I have multiple gmail accounts configured on my WP7.5 and never even heard there is supposed to be an issue with gmail, even though I do follow WP7 news actively enough.
A quick google search does indeed reveal some people having issues around the end of 2010, or something related to syncing with google accounts without gmail (i.e. bound to some other email address).
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More details (but not more content):
Update 7.10.8107.79 indeed "Fixes a Google mail syncing issue."
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsphone/en-us/howto/wp7/basics/update-history.aspx [microsoft.com]
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They better come with a plan that allows forcng RIM email users to buy Windows phones. The plan you creted allows them to force Windows phone users to use RIM email, what won't grant a big advantage to MS.
Not saying that they can't exploit a mail network. They certainly can, but they'll need to work harder than that.
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the first update affected by this policy change benefits a competitor. what severity is the gmail bug which this patch claims to address?
A gmail bug on a windows7 phone is no problem. In fact there are those in Redmond who just might consider it an indispensable feature. The same as a default store bought Windows computer not being able to burn .iso files to disk without installing something.
"DOS ain't done 'til Lotus won't run" is the quote yer lookin' for, kid.
Independant, unbiased, list needed (Score:2)
That would allow buyers to see which manufacturer is most likely to leave them in the dust six months after they buy a given phone, and which network is more secure with regard to releasing updates (when available from the manufacturers) compared
And so... (Score:2)
I'm not a Windows 7 user, but I wonder; can you buy Windows 7 phones unlocked and download updates directly from Microsoft? That might provide some relief.
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You can buy some WP7 phones unlocked, yes. However, the updates still come from manufacturers that way, not from MS, so you can still end up waiting more or less than someone else.
Close, but incorrect (Score:2)
The updates always come from Microsoft - they are actually downloaded (transparently, by the Zune software) from the Windows Update site.
However, Microsoft doesn't actually build the full updates themselves. They provide a basic kit that the OEM then customizes for their model - things like adding the required drivers for the hardware and system utiltiies, adding the built-in application packages for those utilities, and adding branding customizations and so forth. They then test those updates, a process w
Re:Open Source vs a Corporate Monopoly (Score:5, Funny)
yea cause there is no way an Android phone would never get updated, you just have to do a sudo apt-get install and your cupcake turns into a ice cream sandwich
Microsoft, Google, or Apple ... who do you want to get fucked by today, and will it really matter tomorrow?
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Actually I can do an apt-get whateverthefuckiwantincludingmoo on my Nokia N9.
Thank you.
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Which is likely one of the smaller reasons why maemo/meego on phones was killed in the crib.
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I have an N900, N800, and N770 in addition to my N9.
The N9 is beautiful. I'm sure my long winded detractor has never actually seen one.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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Why don't geeks have the ability to understand consumers? is it like a lesion in the brain that simply blinds them to everyone not like them? As someone who builds and sells all matter of electronic gizmos to the consumer I'll be happy to tell you why they really don't give a shit how locked down a phone is, you ready?
It's fairly common human nature to base your opinions of others (including "what you think they think") using yourself as a template.
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Oh indeed. But it's easy to be a consumer psychologist when your next meal doesn't depend on it.
Something similar could be said for the desktop PC. Yeah yeah so Linux gives you all this freedom. Tell me, what's Linux's desktop share these days?
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Things are what they are, not what you think they are, to put it in some way. Believing you can fly if you jump of a cliff doesn't make you able to. Believing organic matter has something magical to that can't be reproduced artifically doesn't make it so either (dispoved by WÃhler's synthesis of urea)
In the same way, it doesn't matter what somebody believes what a phone is, it's still a computer.
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So, I'm guessing you're one of the lucky few that got carrier upgrades/ an unlocked bootloader / manufacturer upgrades?
Android's situation in this case is actually worse than Microsoft's
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Indeed. This was most likely Carrier X getting tons of 'bad calls' from customers because they knew that Carrier Y had already delivered updates etc.
We can't have competition with real data to back up the customer now can we
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Is there a reason why the customers cannot put up such a page themselves? Just have a wiki where people can enter when they got updates, based on country, carrier and phone model. There's not even a need to have that page restricted to Windows phones.
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Sure they can. The point here is that it was Microsoft doing it. Carriers felt threatened by that definitive source of information. With any old user page on the internet, they could easily say it to be false.
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Microsoft wants to make money by getting you to use their phone more. A phone company wants to make money by getting you to use your phone less.
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Re:Disappointment (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Disappointment (Score:5, Informative)
also, there should not have staged update for their phones. one of their big selling point was that every update was to be delivered to anyone on the release day
http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2010/11/windows-phone-7-updates-can-carriers-block-them.ars
and then carriers bitched and moaned until it all changed for worse.
Re:Disappointment (Score:4, Insightful)
Well you can hardly compare the situation in Android with that in WP7. When Google released ICS it took 3 months for any old phone to get an upgrade, some will never get an upgrade and some will get wait more than 6 months. By contrast it took less than 3 months for each and every WP7 device in the world to get the Mango - the most important WP7 update.
Yah (Score:3)
Statistics are just confusing numbers to you right? Do a little search on the number of models of Android phones versus WP7 devices and also note that this is ONLY WP7 and not any earlier version of MS mobile while some Android phones have gotten multiple updates.
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Re:Yah (Score:5, Informative)
No really, I googled Windows Phone 7 Requires Carrier Updates [google.com] and got a mess of results describing how the carriers are not compelled to release updates in a timely manner (or at all, really). Regardless of what MS said they were going to require, it would appear they've caved to pressure from the carriers and changed their official position on the matter [arstechnica.com].
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You do realize that WP7 is entirely new OS unrelated to Windows Mobile, don't you? It even has different name. Up to now every phone released can run and in fact is running the latest version of the OS (except for the bugfix update that was released last week)
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So article:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/04/windows-phone-7-based-on-a-hybrid-windows-ce-6-compact-7-kerne/ [engadget.com]
is wrong?
Windows Mobile 6.5 seems to be Windows CE 5, and Windows Phone appears to be Windows CE 6.
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The kernel is a new major version of the old line, but the userspace is significantly different.
It's like saying that Android and webOS are the same because they both run on Linux. It's true in some sense, but largely irrelevant.
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"It's like saying that Android and webOS are the same because they both run on Linux. It's true in some sense, but largely irrelevant."
They might not be the same, but they are related. Just like WM and WP are related by kernel lineage.
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ICS was released on Nov 17 with the arrival of the Galaxy Nexus; source code was released Nov 14. We're not even three months in since that point. Furthermore, Google obviously wanted the Galaxy Nexus to have some form of exclusivity with ICS so as to drive sales. Even then, the Nexus S got the ICS update roughly a month later (my phone was updated on Dec 16, if I recall correctly).
Third-parties are slower, yes, but even then Samsung should be rolling out the update early 2012. I'm guessing a lot of the del
Re:Disappointment (Score:5, Funny)
Better questions, since when is Microsoft disappointing Windows Phone users news?
Re:Disappointment (Score:5, Informative)
Better questions, since when is Microsoft disappointing Windows Phone users news?
If the reviews on Amazon [amazon.com] are any indication, most people are pretty happy with their Windows Phones. The top 3 highest reviewed phones are all Windows Phones.
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If the sales on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Cell-Phones-Accessories-Service-Plans/zgbs/wireless/2407747011 are any indication the top three selling are all Android phones.
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McDonalds is the top selling food in the country, that doesn't mean it's the best.
The Ford F-150 is the top selling car in the country, does that make it better than an Infiniti G37?
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McDonalds is the top selling food in the country, that doesn't mean it's the best.
The Ford F-150 is the top selling car in the country, does that make it better than an Infiniti G37?
Depends on how many sheets of drywall you need to take to a jobsite or home improvement project.
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I don't think you thought that through. WP7 isn't the top selling but it is rated as the best. So that makes it the Infiniti G37 in your analogy?
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McDonalds is the top selling food in the country, that doesn't mean it's the best.
I'd have problems with your describing it as food.
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If the sales on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Cell-Phones-Accessories-Service-Plans/zgbs/wireless/2407747011 [amazon.com] are any indication the top three selling are all Android phones.
And perhaps the reason for that is because Amazon appears not to sell subsidized iPhones.
Just sayin'...
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Re:Disappointment (Score:4, Insightful)
Better questions, since when is Microsoft disappointing Windows Phone users news?
If the reviews on Amazon [amazon.com] are any indication, most people are pretty happy with their Windows Phones. The top 3 highest reviewed phones are all Windows Phones.
Hmmm. Think those may be astroturfing?
Re:Disappointment (Score:5, Informative)
Nope, more like this [xkcd.com].
5-star reviews are useless, as always. Representative line:
One of my friends had only held it for literally five seconds before commenting on how amazing it was.
Or this HTC Titan review:
i love my wp7 its just the best phone ever the os is the best i have usaed on any cell phone. i got my wp7 phone in feb of 2011 and i have no problem with my lg Quantum and if the HTC Titan is that good i have to get my wife one.becouse my wife is geting it in feb of this year.
Rated 5-stars without even actually buying the phone yet.
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I do read the reviews, but they have to be checked for credibility. The high ratings have to be screened for astroturfers and true believers. The low ratings have to be filtered for people who think the manual is a courtesy table leveler and the silica gel is a complementary instant drink mix.
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How in the HELL does anyone manage to manipulate real world facts, to the extent that Windows has not one, not two, but the THREE top rated phones? FFS, I don't know of one single person in real life who is carrying around a Windows phone. Not one. iPhones are a dime a dozen, and Androids are about twenty cents per gross. Other proprietary OS's are common as lice in a prison. Window? If I want to actually see, and touch a Windows phone, I have to find a store where one is on display, collecting dust.
T
Re:Disappointment (Score:4, Insightful)
I have a Windows Phone and I will rate it pretty high. What is your point? Even if I am the only person in the world who owns Windows Phone that will still make the average rating pretty high. It will not mean that a lot of devices were sold, it will not mean that it is better than Android or iPhone. It will only mean that the average satisfaction of people who have WP7 is pretty high. Of course Amazon probably has some minimum number of reviews needed to rank the phone but I imagine this number is something like 20 and surely MS managed to sell 20 phones.
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My point is, they are obviously not making comparisons to the entire pool of cell phone purchasers. Surveying a select subclass of cell phone purchasers can almost guarantee the results you are looking for.
If slashdot included a polling mechanism such as is available on VBB, we could post a survey for all slashdot users to respond to. "How would you rank x model phone?" Or, "What is your favorite phone?" Or, "Which phone do you think is the most technologically advanced?"
On the other hand, asking "Which
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Of course they are not, neither do they claim to compare the entire pool of cell phone purchasers. They compare reviews by people who wrote reviews. At this point WP users are mainly WP enthusiasts and they are really excited about the platform. As such they are more likely to write a review and their reviews are more likely to be favorable. This is a measure that should be taken for what is - a customer satisfaction, not popularity of the platform, not some kind of grade on the OS. The only thing it means
You are not alone. (Score:2)
My reasons for buying my WP7 device was to check out the Xbox Live integration specifically and general curiosity about the OS. (Disclosure: I am an Xbox geek and phone/handheld/mobile geek, so the merge could not be passed up without investigation.
I was impressed with device and rated it high, right out of the box.
-calls were good, even on at&t network.
-easy to text
-easy to connect to personal AND work email
-I find the Office apps easy to use if viewing apps and making minor changes. I would not reco
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And here I thought I was the only one on Slashdot who have actually liked the good old Windows Mobile.
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This might just means Microsoft hired more bloggers than Google to boost their ratings. Also they don't have any iOS devices that I can see. Also note the top three unlocked phones are all running Android.
Re:Disappointment (Score:5, Insightful)
"OS updates manditory" was one of the great selling points they had over Android, now it's "OS updates available to carrier on request". Yeah.
I predict Windows Mobile "fragmentation" stories and much gnashing of teeth.
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This is just yet another case haters on the internet moving the goalposts in order to hate on MS. IT also shows why no matter how good MS's products are, they simply can't when.
When WP7 forced carriers to update, all the digerati ignored WP7's great reviews and made fun of it. "The two people that bought Windows Phones seem to like them hahahaha. Guess they don't mind the BSODs LOLOLLOl!". According to Slashdot posters, Android is the BEST (even though you have to deal with fragmentation, etc).
MS desper
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WP7 will be like Android when it drops the walled garden and lets people sideload apps without restrictions.
As it is, with this change, it ends up being just as locked as iOS, but without all the benefits of Apple fully controlling OS updates. I.e. the worst of both worlds.
Metro is the only UI on the market that is truly designed from grounds up for touch and touch alone, but when everything else is broken, it's not going to be enough (hence the sales).
Re:Disappointment (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually it's likely much worse. In Q3 ex Nokia CEO now mobile analyst Tomi Ahonen says worldwide market share is currently as low as 1-2% [blogs.com].
The Lumia launch isn't looking all too optimistic either [blogs.com].
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So, you claim that Windows phones are common place because they will have 12% market share by [the end of?] this year? I notice a small difference on the time of those verbs... And I notice you are quite certain of things you don't know.
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