RIM PlayBook Email App Nowhere In Sight 163
judgecorp writes "RIM has delayed the 2.0 release of its tablet's Playbook OS until 2012, and admitted it won't have the BlackBerry email app. PlayBook users will only be able to do BlackBerry email on their tablets by linking with a BlackBerry phone, for the foreseeable future."
Umm.... (Score:3)
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Been that way since day one. Seriously. I can't imagine how they've sold even one of these things.
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How?
A basic email client in something that a couple guys could crank out in a month. That is being pretty generous, too. I can't imagine the messenger is any more complicated.
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Well, you can always use webmail :). Since it has Flash, it'll give you True Web Experience(tm)!
(Unfortunately, like the HP touchPad, it runs Flash all the time...).
As for BBM, apparently the problem is that BBM makes the assumption of one PIN per member, and I don't think Playbooks have PINs (and now you have a problem of two PINs if it's also linked to a blackberry). BBM being an extension of what used to be "free" messaging by PIN that goes all the way back to the original mobitex blackberries.
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PlayBooks have PINs, but you're right that a large part is the one-user-one-PIN model that BBM, as well as BIS (commercial email) and BES (enterprise email+collab), use.
That, and the code that supports it is probably pretty crufty---so much so that they cancelled the BBOS VM that would have been an easy way to run these apps on the PlayBook. It's the same problem that keeps delaying their QNX-based phones: getting a messaging infrastructure that's rickety, old, secure as hell and run on the same stuff for
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So maybe use more standard methods?
IMAPS, SMTPS, Activesync, etc.
Then run full hardware crypto on the storage.
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That and encrypt every message.
It probably is taking this long distributing all the backdoor decryption keys to the various governments around the world.
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Seems simple enough, PGP.
I bet this is just a product of their being a big old stuffy bunch of empty suits.
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This is still false. RIM can't give the keys for BES users because they don't have them. Neither RIM nor any government can access that data for users on BES.
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If you use your own BES, perhaps.
But most consumers don't.
See:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/08/12/blackberry-idUSN1213222020100812 [reuters.com]
This is where governments are demanding access. They are not worried that Ford or Boeing or
Tata Motors employees are plotting terror events. They are worried about consumer devices
running on Rim's own network and servers.
If you are unaware of this, you haven't been paying attention.
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I'm very aware of this. However, I'm sick of the nonsense claims that RIM is insecure because they "hand out the keys to everyone". As always, BES users are as secure as ever -- and you don't get better security than on BB.
As for BIS users, the truth is that only users in just a few countries are affected (possibly only one, I'd need to check). Still, if any non-corporate user wants best-in-class security, they can setup BESX for free.
Precisely the point I'd imagine (Score:2)
So, if you happen t
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Don't feed the trolls.
The ever increasing number behind his name should clue you in.
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Thanks for telling me, he posts so low I don't see him. I had to do the expand thing when someone commented on his comment.
INSERT HIS CATCHPHRASE HERE
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But this makes me think I need to review my RIM Intrade strategy right sharpish.
Honestly, couldn't they at least ginned up some quick webmail app or something? Playbook's got a browser, right?
Corporate Malfeasance (Score:2)
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But this makes me think I need to review my RIM Intrade strategy right sharpish.
What, you didn't buy puts on RIM LEAP's when they announced their QNX strategy?
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I did. The day before their last earning release. $27.5 Sept puts went up 5.5x in 18 hours.
And yet..... (Score:2)
I have a Blackberry. I love it (as much as anyone can love a phone) And I'm also somewhat sensitive to choosing the wrong platform, being a former Amiga guy.
For all the talk of RIMs demise, around here (Toronto) in my informal survey of people I see with phones, BlackBerries dominate. I ride the TTC a fair bit, and I have never seen an iPhone on the TTC. Never. I've seen a couple of Android phones, but BlackBerries I see by the dozens. And not just in the hands of government or corporate types - I mean the
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I have a Blackberry. I love it (as much as anyone can love a phone) And I'm also somewhat sensitive to choosing the wrong platform, being a former Amiga guy.
For all the talk of RIMs demise, around here (Toronto) in my informal survey of people I see with phones, BlackBerries dominate. I ride the TTC a fair bit, and I have never seen an iPhone on the TTC. Never. I've seen a couple of Android phones, but BlackBerries I see by the dozens. And not just in the hands of government or corporate types - I mean the kids too.
I've tried very hard to avoid self-selection bias so it's not just fanboi recognition - I think it's real data (for as much worth as it is)
DG
With all due respect... it's just hard to imagine you've NEVER SEEN an iPhone on the Toronto subway system, if you're really surveying that much. I could no more believe that, than believe the Blackberry tablet truly has no email client.
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I honestly have never seen an iPhone there.
Plenty of iPods... but no phone.
There were a couple of times I thought I saw one, but they turned out to be Droid phones.
Now they are undoubtedly around - my bubble of "phone awareness" doesn't encompass the whole train after all. I'm not claiming that "nobody has one". But the density seems low; whereas the BB density is universally high.
DG
Re:Umm.... (Score:4, Insightful)
And this is why most geeks' take on this market is worth nothing.
You listed a bunch of hardware features. Most people don't care. Most people just want a device that works well and doesn't require them to fiddle or futz around. The iPad does this really, really well, and that's why it's sold---actually sold to end-users, not stuffed into a channel---millions and millions of units.
That geekdom can't or won't appreciate the "works well/no fiddling" part is why, eg, RIM is in deep crap. Their only saving grace is BBM which, ta-daa, requires hardly any fiddling and works really well.
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That Toshiba device just made me vomit in my own mouth.
Its everything wrong with mobile devices.
As much I wanted to dislike the iPad it won me over. Its not perfect (I would like different profiles for my wife and me), but its pretty damned good.
I've also ordered a Kindle Fire because it is a media consumption device. You may not realize it, but Amazon just made itself kind of distribution in the digital world. The bits and pieces didn't seem to fit until now you have unlimited music, video, books and web access inside a tiny package.
I suspect almost everybody (well, except you) gets it and won't be returning it because its not an iPad. They'll probably own both.
I ordered a Fire as well, and think it will complement my iPad quite well, and probably replace my older Kindle, since LCD screens don't seem to bother me when I'm reading, but 10" tablets are a touch too big somtimes late at night when reading.
Specs are irrelevant. I know this is Slashdot, and we love them... but I would trade my iPad 2 for an iPad 1 before any other Android Tablet. Nobody ever complains they are sluggish, and as devices, they serve the role they need to. I dispute those who say they ar
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Well, it DOES have email through BlackBerry Bridge. This actually makes a lot of sense. See, if I'm deploying tablets in an enterprise where I already have BlackBerry phones deployed, I have to do nothing except drop off a stack of tablets.
Any user who grabs one has instant access to their calendar, contacts, email, and files. If they pass the tablet off to a coworker, their info is gone, and the new user has access to all of their data.
In the enterprise, discouraging the use of native email (you can st
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Ok, you as an It enterprise guy worry about data & set up time and everything, I get that. But what does the company actually gain by purchasing a tablet? What does it provide that the blackberry phone it connects to does not provide? A larger screen?
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It's BlackBerry Messenger that they won't get. Because the BBM is tied to a single device, so they haven't solved the problem of having the same messages on both devices at once.
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I'm not sure what BBM is about, but if its like a chat service, then google figured it out long back
Why would blackberry take sooooooo long
Wow this is major fail (Score:2)
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I must have missed the part where the PlayBook was incomplete. It had everything they indented and promised at the time it was released.
Native email was purposefully omitted. Apple does this all the time. You've ALWAYS had email on the PlayBook through BlackBerry Bridge. There are numerous advantages to this, which I and many others have repeated in every playbook thread on Slashdot. Besides, if you want native email, you can just use one of many third-party email applications, or even web mail (like mos
Re:Wow this is major fail (Score:5, Insightful)
I must have missed the part where the PlayBook was incomplete. It had everything they indented and promised at the time it was released.
What part of it was promised [wired.com] to have email and BBM and contacts by summer 2011 is not clear?
If you don’t have a BlackBerry phone, you’re out of luck until summer, when RIM says a future software update will bring native clients to the PlayBook.
And then summer 2011 came and went. Now the functionality will be delayed all the way back to 2012. And BBM will not be part of that update. So RIM promised features that are supposed to be part of the tablet. But has not delivered and one feature will not be delivered nearly 9 months if it is ever delivered.
RIM promoted the PlayBook as "Your BlackBerry, Amplified". A BB phone is, consequently, a key part of the PlayBook experience.
So a PlayBook is useless without a BB phone? Please. How can RIMM position the PlayBook as the competitor to Android and iPad and then say it has to be tethered. You are in serious denial.
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> You are in serious denial.
Seriously.
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Not even iOS and WP7, on their respective first releases, missed a piece of functionality so crucial as an email application.
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The PlayBook DID HAVE EMAIL -- the way it was intended, through BlackBerry Bridge. Zero-management, best security on the market.
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What you're saying is that PlayBook didn't have email, but it could piggyback on another device that did - but only if it was a BB smartphone. In other words, PlayBook didn't have email unless you purchased a BB smartphone to match. Since BB smartphones are kinda crappy for most usage scenarios of the kind of people who buy tablets in the first place, that's effectively the same as not having it - which is exactly how the market took it.
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Since BB smartphones are kinda crappy for most usage scenarios
Except for email, messaging, PIM -- oh, and web browsing! Yeah, as of OS6 RIMs browser is actually better than the iPhone. It wasn't until iOS 5 that Apple's browser managed to re-take the top spot.
Common functions like phone calls and messaging have always been RIM's strength. Audio, video, and web browsing meet or exceed the capabilities of other platforms.
They don't have nearly as many high-end games though. If that's what's important to you.
As for the PlayBook market -- you do realize it was markete
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No, RIM's browser on the BBOS devices has never been on par with Mobile Safari except in certain very targeted benchmarks. In terms of user experience, the OS7 devices are just catching up to the 3GS now and there is no way you can claim that the OS6 devices, like the 9800 Torch I have, are in the same league as the iPhone 4.
They arent egregiously bad like OS5 or earlier, but that's damning with faint praise.
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Well, in a side-by-side the Torch 9800 performs comparably to the iPhone 4 in terms of speed -- bringing up and rendering pages. Pre iOS 5, the BlackBerry browser beats the pants off of Mobile Safari when it comes to HTML 5 support (that's by all objective measures).
OS7 devices are even better, that is, with the major hardware improvements.
RIM has a solid web-browser that is comparable to or beats the other major players. The "Blackberry is horrid for web browsing" myth stopped being true a long time ago.
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Who cares about rendering the page in 10ms instead of 20ms, when usability is crap?
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Sorry, I'm not seeing where the BlackBerry browser is less usable than Mobile Safari. What exactly are you referring to here?
I'll even take this a step farther and say that RIM offers more in terms of usability than Apple on that front.
RIM has all the features of Mobile Safari including that weird bounce-back thing, pinch-to-zoom, a double-tap to zoom/size a column of text, etc. They begin to exceed Apple with the optical trackpad, which makes using the web on your phone work just like it does in the brow
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RIM has all the features of Mobile Safari including that weird bounce-back thing, pinch-to-zoom, a double-tap to zoom/size a column of text, etc
You mean all the gestures that made browsing on smaller screens usable?
They begin to exceed Apple with the optical trackpad, which makes using the web on your phone work just like it does in the browser
Apple has made no pretense that the iPad is not a desktop. RIM put them in there because they don't have anything more inventive than using a mouse.
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Like I said before, Apple was behind RIM on the web browser front until iOS 5. As Apple is known for having a great mobile browser, you can't fault the BlackBerry's web browsing experience at all.
Describe "behind". You can spouting your opinion but nothing to back it up.
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"As for the PlayBook market -- you do realize it was marketed to BlackBerry users. The tagline was "Your BlackBerry, Amplified" It was made very clear that the PlayBook was designed to work in tandem with a BlackBerry phone."
Uggg. This is precisely why it was doomed. The BB market is *shrinking*, so why would you possibly tie it in?!
I don't have a BB, so I don't buy a PB. This is a marketing plan? Or a failure plan?
Did we learn nothing from the Unix Wars? Tie-in kills companies. Customers *hate* it. If anyt
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... oh, and "best security on the market" is, and has forever been, a non-proprietary SSL connection directly to the email server - which any modern smartphone has been able to do for years.
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Sorry, are you actually claiming that other smartphones have met or exceeded the security of BlackBerry?
You're very much alone in that one. Remember, it's not just email that is secure -- it's everything -- including the OS.
iOS, for example, is so insecure that just visiting a webpage is enough to jailbreak and install an application.
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We were talking about email specifically. I'm claiming that other smartphones have met or exceeded the security of BB's approach to email years ago, and so "tablet has to be tethered to a BB phone to work with email, but it's more secure that way!" is not only a lame excuse, it's not an excuse at all.
iOS, for example, is so insecure that just visiting a webpage is enough to jailbreak and install an application.
JailbreakMe - which is the one you're referring to - is not applicable to current stable iOS versions.
In any case, this stuff is due to security vulnerabilities in the stock apps, rather than any specific appro
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We were talking about email specifically.
I didn't realize. In that case, there is more to email security than just its transmission. There is also the security of email on the device to consider. On that front, RIM is still unmatched.
Will BB vouch that there are no remote code execution vulnerabilities in BBOS?
While I doubt BB with vouch for that, they do actively search for vulnerabilities in their software and patch them before they become a problem. Their software also holds more security related certifications than any other mobile product.
JailbreakMe - which is the one you're referring to - is not applicable to current stable iOS versions.
If by that you mean iOS 5, then yes. Know of any version of iOS 4 that doesn't
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If by that you mean iOS 5, then yes. Know of any version of iOS 4 that doesn't work with jailbreakme?
4.3.4 - the one that was specifically released to close that hole, in fact.
You just can't deny the fact that RIMs security is unparalleled and Apple has a ... less than stellar security record.
It may well be that RIM makes the most secure devices. I won't claim otherwise, since I don't count this as a major feature when shopping around (and I use Android, in any case - not that it has a particularly good record). My point, anyway, was that BB specifically positions Playbook as a device for a very different market than "oldschool" BB phones, that of an entertainment device. And there, tying the basic functionality of the de
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It was my understanding that RIM was marketing the tablet to enterprise users -- not home users. RIM was widely criticized for calling the PlayBook "The first professional tablet", for example, because of the lack of native email (I explained earlier in this thread why I think that decision was very sensible for the enterprise market).
The name PlayBook makes more sense to U.S. users where "play book" is a term used to mean a set of plans or strategies. It's a sports analogy, common in the American busines
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"I'm not sure that RIM marketed the PlayBook to any significant degree to the consumer market"
Oh give me a break.
http://www.electronista.com/articles/11/09/30/rim.divided.on.playbook.focus.on.home.pro.users/
The fact that it can only be used in enterprise by buying a second device is moronic. Don't try to be RIMs apologist, you simply make yourself look silly. This product is a failure, and the sales figures back that up.
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If that is true then show us one single time in the past 10 years where Apple announced a product release ahead of time with promised features, then didn't deliver.
Apple demoed OS X Leopard at WWDC 2007 (?), where Jobs claimed that the new Time Machine application would allow backups to hard drives attached to Airport Extreme routers. This feature wasn't available when Leopard shipped. Only after many months and many complaints did they finally live up to their word and allow Time Machine to be used with AEs, and not just Time Capsules.
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It wasn't a question of not wanting to allow it, it just didn't work well enough. Even now you'll find some people discouraging the use of Time Machine with Airport Extreme attached disks, although I haven't had a problem myself.
Need a translation (Score:2)
What's Canadian English for, "They're f*cked" ?
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Beauty post, eh?
Take off, hoser.
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Nortel ?
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There's an app for that - https://market.android.com/details?id=com.pottymouth [android.com]
Er, on Android...
Re:Need a translation (Score:4, Insightful)
"They're hosed"
Well fuck. (Score:2)
I bought my playbook on the premise I'd be able to actually fucking USE it for something soon.
So now it will continue to sit on my desk ignored and unused.
Anyone wanna buy a playbook?
(I know, hell of a sales pitch.)
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"I bought my playbook on the premise I'd be able to actually fucking USE it for something soon."
That's why I'm a LATE adopter. Everyone else should beta test so I can learn from their experience.
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Still happy with the table given the price I paid.
I'm glad to year you've repurposed it as a table. How's that working out for you?
Not important (Score:1)
"Email is not important [yet]", remarked RIM co-CEO Mike Lazaridis, "It is certainly not something at RIM has focused on in the past. When e-mail catches on you can be sure that RIM will be at the forefront."
DOA (Score:1)
I actually RTFA... (Score:5, Informative)
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The software update will add advanced integrated email, calendar and contact apps, a new video store, as well as new functionality that will allow your BlackBerry smartphone and BlackBerry PlayBook to work together even better.
To me it's not clear whether you will finally get separate email and contacts or whether you will still need a BB smartphone.
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Riiight. Care to actually elaborate on this alleged tight integration with the cell network?
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> 's all because BBM is tightly tied to internal elements of the cell phone network
Didn't phase Apple. iMessage works great on iPads.
> My guess is network backbone software upgrades
It was a hardware failure, as well documented in the press.
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It's all because BBM is tightly tied to internal elements of the cell phone network, and introducing WiFi and a completely different network infrastructure requires them to refactor the existing server infrastructure, and architecture, which they can't manage to keep running, the way it is. What do you think really caused those outages? My guess is network backbone software upgrades (called "Routing" in their speak, but which is really the BBM server side code) gone pear-shaped.
W
Whatever... nobody cares why it's hard. They just care that Blackberry is known for email and BBM, and they have a tablet that can't do it yet. There's truth in that - it's undeniable. If it wasn't so important, perhaps they'd have sold a few million. They had trouble shipping into the channel [foxnews.com] let alone selling to end users. I can't state for certain that it's because of the lack of email and BBM... but that's a pretty good guess for lagging sales, no? Barnes and Noble shipped a tablet with an email client
Out of curiosity... (Score:2)
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No, it was fair to call it the Foleo when it was released. Now, you're just late. Its like deciding to declare the Roman empire to have fallen. Its not false, just not current news.
Bye Bye Rim (Score:3)
The best laugh I had was where they got this skateboarder type who was developing some "Rad" app for them. This was a baby boomer interpretation of being youthful. They might as well had they guy developing from on top of a surfboard.
RIM is following in the footsteps of Novell, and Word Perfect. Once they lost growth and market domination the end came far more quickly than you would have thought.
What I am waiting for is this moment when they realize that their numbers are so awful that they will be instantly ruined. This might be when they pull a Nortel and start cooking the books. Minimally I predict they will start noodling the books to the maximum allowed by the loosest of accounting standards. Hiding costs and somehow booking future revenues now.
A Sticky Wicket (Score:2)
Simply Not True (Score:2)
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Except in April, they said they'd have the email client in 60 days: http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/15/rim-playbook-email-client-very-very-soon-3g-model-this-summe/ [engadget.com]
Article Inaccurate (Score:2)
The arrival of Playbook OS 2.0 has been put off till February 2012, according to a blog post, which also revealed that the new version will not contain the long-awaited BlackBerry Messenger (BBM) application, which would allow Playbook users to access BlackBerry email without hooking up to a BlackBerry phone.
Whoever wrote this article doesn't understand the difference between BBM and email. RIM has said that BBM is delayed out of the Feb. release and has said nothing about email. BBM and email are two different things.
playbook user right here (Score:2)
Yes, there isn't a native email application...but who cares? Browse to whatever webmail you're using and you're fine.
(Of course that doesn't work if you're not using something with a web front end. But even my old alma mater has a web front end for its email and it's got 1500 students.)
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The point of an email app is so that it can sync message bodies while you have connectivity, and read them when offline (e.g. on the plane). Also, notifications for when new emails come up. Synchronization with contact list in the device. And so on, and so forth... webmail is not an adequate replacement.
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Yeah, because webmail is such a wonderful user experience, even on a full size screen with a mouse and keyboard where it's DESIGNED to be used.
Seriously, not having an e-mail client is inexcusable and "just use webmail!" is about as silly as when Jobs said "just use web apps!" Except Jobs was either kidding or realized his mistake and fixed it.
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It also doesn't work if you're a corporation that has to comply with Safe Harbor regulations, which is kind of the point. The corporation is RIM's customer, and they aren't delivering anything close to what the customer needs.
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Yes, there isn't a native email application...but who cares? Browse to whatever webmail you're using and you're fine.
(Of course that doesn't work if you're not using something with a web front end. But even my old alma mater has a web front end for its email and it's got 1500 students.)
How's that work when I'm not in WiFi range. Or when I need to look up a number quickly? How do calendar alerts pop up?
Email IS coming, read the press release. (Score:2)
As long as they keep giving out free tablets @ GDC (Score:2)
Out of touch (Score:2)
RIM was already losing market share, hand over fist, to Android and iOS for some time. Then along comes the iPad, and RIM's executives apparently decide they can jump into that space AND force a resurgence in Blackberry phone sales by requiring their new tablet to tether to a Blackberry phone in order to do anything particularly useful.
Since the Playbook was intended specifically to require a Blackberry - why is anyone surprised at this delay? In my mind, the only question is whether this is actually a tech
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Okay, I'm posting right here, where it could get read.
I own a Playbook. It came with the only two apps I currently use: Word to go and Kobo Books. I look forward(very, very far forward) to the day that I can actually receive email on the damn thing. Since I have my BB fully encrypted, I have to enter the encryption password on the BB, and then the PB, in order to view email. For now, I will continue using it to read books and doc files without having to carry my netbook around an office, or deal with it's k
Re:Not surprising... (Score:5, Funny)
Dude, there are tons of things you can do with a Playbook without an attached Blackberry. It makes an excellent oversized coaster or underside plate. A little string and some glue and it makes a nice hat. If you have a cat or very small dog it can be used for a nice kittie/doggie door. It also works as a mediocre paperweight, a very small and crappy snowboard, an extremely shallow ashtray, or a top quality piece of garbage. Seriously, I can barely even think of anything you can't do with a Playbook.
Except for tablet computing. It doesn't do that.
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I wish I had mod points. This is so true.
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I just got my Fire Sale Touchpads I ordered a couple of months ago, and I have to say that WebOS is awesome. HP really shot themselves in the foot with getting rid of them. At $250-$300 they would have sold a ton of them. They were too much at iPad pricing levels though.
There is a rumor going around though, that they may keep making them, but put Windows 8 on them instead.
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Yes, I can see how owning a no longer supported by anyone tablet with an OS with NO FUTURE is preferable to an "also ran" that still has a company behind it.
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"...revealed that the new version will not contain the long-awaited BlackBerry Messenger (BBM) application, which would allow Playbook users to access BlackBerry email without hooking up to a BlackBerry phone."
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It was a facepalm back when they first released PlayBook in its current shape. I don't know how this can be described by now, other than saying that BB seems to be paying meticulous attention to tying the noose right before kicking off the chair...
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A Playbook isn't a tablet, it's a bigger screen for your Blackberry. Except it's SOLD as a tablet, and it's trying to compete against tablets that can actually function without another device.
You seem to confuse "integration" and "dependence."
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"What would I do? I'd shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders." - Michael Dell on Apple in 1997.
Companies can be turned around. Of course the current leadership of RIM have proven they don't have the vision to do so so they should bring in someone who does.
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I think last week's fiasco pounded the final nail in at least halfway.