Ballmer Slams Android As Cheap and Overcomplicated 645
jfruhlinger writes "On the day Android Ice Cream Sandwich was released, Steve Ballmer livened up the Web 2.0 conference by lobbing potshots at Google's mobile OS, calling it the choice of 'cheap' phones and claiming 'the biggest advantage we have over Android is that you don't need to be a computer scientist to use a Windows Phone.'"
Cheap? (Score:3)
Doesn't Windows have a lower TOC than Linux, according to Microsoft?
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Where's the irony? Remember the VCRs that no ordinary people could work out how to set the timer. The cheaper, the more obscure and confusing the operation. The higher the intelligence needed to work out how to do it.
Hard to use is a typical quality of cheap, not expensive.
Re:Cheap? (Score:4, Insightful)
Anyone who made comments about VCRs being hard to program was a moron.
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It beats posts where the only argument is a playground insult.
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Anyone who made comments about VCRs being hard to program was a moron.
Silence
That myth made me a small fortune as a kid programming the clocks on other peoples VCR's.
In other words, (Score:4, Insightful)
Windows Phone 7 will be not-cheap and not-complex.
This means it will be expensive and not do half the stuff Android does.
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Re:In other words, (Score:5, Funny)
It will squirt phone calls...
Re:In other words, (Score:5, Funny)
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Special... as in "rides the short bus to school" special.
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Well, it worked for Apple.
Out there (Score:5, Insightful)
I get the impression Ballmer hasn't even used an Android phone. Exactly what part of the OS is complicated to use? Really, that's just an absurd, out-there statement.
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Perhaps he is referring to the complications of updating the OS when your handset maker/ cell carrier sold you a phone that is several revisions out of date and they refuse to make current updates available to you.
Re:Out there (Score:4, Insightful)
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Unlike with a Windows phone where you can... still do nothing about that. If a hardware vendor wont update the software the way you like it, you dont buy from them again. Which OS they refuse to update has little to do with it.
True, except Microsoft magically seems to have solved this problem with their partner relations. Did you miss the fact that 98% of Windows Phones had the Mango update available within a four week span [venturebeat.com]?
Microsoft hasn't been getting a ton of press, but their WP7 update work is seriousl
Re:Out there (Score:5, Funny)
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I still have windows mobile 6.2 :(
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Sure, but hardware vendors can't actually sell a phone using a version of "Windows Phone" OS that is several versions out of date, since Microsoft changed the name of their phone OS immediately prior to WinPhone 7. And even if they could do so, they wouldn't, because "several versions" out of date for whatever the current Windows mobile OS is called would be a much older version than "several versions" out of date for Android.
WinMo 6.5
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Carriers can block a WP7 update. However, they are not allowed to block 2 updates in a row.
A lot of the carriers blocked the first update after all the bug reports started rolling in. Because of that, they we're not allowed to block the latest update. Which is why pretty much everyone is able to update to 7.5 'mango.
Re:Out there (Score:4, Insightful)
And Windows 7 has been available for 2 years and less than 20% of Windows PCs have been upgraded....
It's easy to do updates when you have a brand new OS with a limited number of hardware platforms to test - all of which are still being manufactured and sold. Just wait until those Windows Phones go EOL over the next 24 months as new models are brought to the market. How many manufacturers and networks are going to be willing to support updates of old phones, which they make no money from? It seems inevitable that, at some point, Microsoft will stop providing updates for old phones. Just look at the hardware platforms that have already shipped with Android. [wikipedia.org] It is not feasible to test the functionality of upgrades on all of these devices. If Windows Phone turns out to be as popular (and that's a big *if*), then they are going to end up in the same boat.
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I love my Nexus S, and maintain it via Cyangenmod, but the simple fact is that the majority of handsets are hopelessly out of date, with known security problems, and the networks just don't give a shit.
Re:Out there (Score:5, Informative)
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Steve Ballmer, Product Designer (Score:2)
The best thing about Android Ice Cream Sandwich is that Steve Ballmer has gone nowhere near it.
Same old Ballmer smack talk (Score:5, Interesting)
That sounds like same Ballmer who laughed at the iPhone because of how expensive it was: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eywi0h_Y5_U [youtube.com]
Same negative marketing smack talk. Also, enjoy the irony that expensive phones are apparently now good, and cheap is bad. (although, of course, cheap isn't the same thing as inexpensive - it really *is* good to be neither expensive nor cheap).
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Great! (Score:2)
My wife loves her new Android phone. She will be so excited that she now has a Computer Science degree as well as her PoliSci degree.
So apply for a job at Microsoft and put down you have a Degree in CS and when they ask from where hold up your Android phone and point at at.
Brace yourself for flying chairs (Score:3, Informative)
Let's not forget; Ballmer isn't exactly fond of Google*. I'm not surprised he's got a mouthful of trash to talk.
"At that point, Mr. Ballmer picked up a chair and threw it across the room hitting a table in his office," Lucovosky recounted, adding that Ballmer then launched into a tirade about Google CEO Eric Schmidt. "I'm going to f***ing bury that guy, I have done it before, and I will do it again. I'm going to f***ing kill Google." Schmidt previously worked for Sun Microsystems and was the CEO of Novell.
[*] - http://news.cnet.com/2100-1014_3-5846243.html [cnet.com]
WP7 the phones for stupid people that pay too much (Score:2)
Really Steve? Do you know just how stupid that makes you sound?
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I don't think he does, he says stupid things fairly often. His mouth is like a font, with stupidity gushing forth. Given the dismal track record of previous Microsoft products that attempted to go up against the iPod (Zune), iTunes (MSN Music Store), and iPhone (Kin), their new offering will have an extreme uphill battle, and probably be abandoned just like its predecessors.
That'll be one major factor contributing to the new Windows phone's failure, it's hard to trust that Microsoft will stick with someth
Ballmer is a visionary (Score:2)
It's wise of ms to go after the high-price, low-IQ market.
"You don't need to be a computer scientist to use a Windows Phone. You don't need to be anything at all! Most WP users don't even exist!"
The biggest advantage that WP has over Android is that one thing Ballmer mentioned. The biggest advantage that Android has over WP is everything else.
Re:Ballmer is a visionary (Score:4, Funny)
It's wise of Microsoft to go after the high-price, low-IQ market.
But Apple's already filled that niche... :O
lobbing potshots at Google's mobile OS, (Score:2)
Is that a step up or down from lobbing chairs?
Change of heart Mr. Ballmer? (Score:2)
All Android issue are belong to us... (Score:2)
It has been a joy. No Telecom crap. A few applications I can't uninstall (grrrrr) but the UI and functionality has been peachy. I am always showing off how easy it is to do multitasking, navigation, web searches,
My wife's Atrix? Not so much. Maybe now that Google is buying them, Google can scrape the sludge of a UI Motorola slathered on their phones.
This is news? (Score:2)
My How Things Have Changed (Score:2)
I wonder if he would have made that same statement about Microsoft's innovative efforts and visionary user experience without laughing just two years ago, pitting Eclair against Windows mobile 6. I dare him to use a Samsung Omnia II for more than five minutes without crushing it to bits.
Android isn't for everyone (Score:4, Insightful)
I have a T-Mobile MyTouch 4g running Cyanogenmod 7.1 in my pocket right now. It's a very, very nice phone. I also have a friend who is looking to buy his first smartphone. He just wants the Internet in his pocket, and reading product barcodes to immediatly find reviews & prices interests him. No games or videoconferencing or anything fancy.
The main reason I told him to buy an iPhone is that if you go into a store to choose an Android phone there is no way to know if, when an OS update is released, you will receive it at all. The "latest-android" might be out, and you are wondering when you'll have it pushed to your phone. The carrier says to talk to the manufacturer, the manufacturer says they released it to the carrier, no-one knows for sure if you'll get it all. LG, Motorola, HTC, Samsung multiplied by T-mobile, ATT, Verizon and you have a huge matrix of possibilities and no-one can tell you before you choose a handset if that one will recieve OS updates, or how quickly.
Even folks on the same carrier but with different brand handsets see wildly different timeframes for updates.
I can update my Cyanogenmod myself, but he can't & shouldn't need to. He should just be able to walk out of the store with a smartphone and, when an OS update is released, just have it pumped into his phone right away.
Android phones are great for enthusiasts but for my friend & most other folks, the iPhone is a better choice.
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You should have had him get a Nexus S.
Re:Android isn't for everyone (Score:4, Insightful)
The update issue is a separate issue from usability.
And this thinking is why Apple is cleaning up. Ease of updates is not separate from usability. How you activate your phone is not separate from usability. What happens when you plug your phone into your computer is not separate from usability. How easy it is to buy apps is not separate from usability.
95% of the consumers out there just want a cool phone that does what they want. They don't want to hack it. They don't want to run through some third party procedure to get the latest firmware because their carrier decides they don't want to release a Gingerbread update to a particular device. Crap, you'd think that if you were to buy a new Android device it would already have the latest firmware on it, but some carriers are still selling 2.2 and even 2.1 devices. That's complete garbage.
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And this thinking is why Apple is cleaning up. Ease of updates is not separate from usability.
Your comparison is invalid. You are comparing updates for a no-longer-supported platform to one that is still supported. The valid comparison is:
95% of the consumers out there just want a cool phone that does what they want.
The vast majority of consumers don't care about software upda
Ballmer Continued: (Score:2)
Jailbreaking? (Score:3)
you don't need to be a computer scientist to use a
OK lets define "use" as making the computer bend to my will, rather than making me bend to the computer's will. In other words, I wanna install whatever software I want.
Rank the iphone, android, and windows phone in order of education requirements to jailbreak.
My very semi-serious research:
iphone is supposedly jailbreakable with like "click on a website" or something. Or at least it was. Then it either magically worked or was irrecoverably bricked. So I'd say this is roughly lower grade school level.
android takes all kinds of foolishness just to install cyanogenmod, but its well documented. You need about as much skill as it takes to bake a cake, which admittedly most of the marching morons can't do without setting the kitchen on fire. I'd say this is roughly college freshman level.
I don't think anyone uses windows phone so there is not much news out there. I'd say roughly PHD level because you'll be breaking new territory, using something no sane person has ever used before. Kind of like LSD in the early 60s.
Slams ? Android ? (Score:2)
And thats why Windows Phone sales (Score:2)
have blown by Android and iPhone, right?
If he's right (BIG "if") though, I have one thing to say to him:
"Welcome to OS/2-land, BITCH."
"you don't need to be a computer scientist" (Score:5, Insightful)
"you don't need to be a computer scientist to use a Windows Phone.'"
My mom plays with my android phone when I go visit. She's about the farthest thing from a computer scientist I know. I still occasionally have to remind her how to move a file between directories (on Windows). She finds the android OS to be very intuitive, and would get one herself if she had any need for a smart phone.
Criticizing Android's faults is one thing, but descending into ridiculous hyperbole that no one in his right mind is going to believe is pretty stupid.
Android has it's flaws (Score:3)
I've been using my first Android phone for a little over 2 weeks. I think on the whole the capabilities are brilliant but there are some real frustrations. It's still a lot less frustrating to deal with than Windows, and this phone was cheap.
My frustrations with Android /system partition /data and /system partitions, plenty of crapware on the phone I got which I then removed, but no easy way to repartition.
- Forced update of "protected" apps on the
- Default calendar without search? (Google is a search company!)
- Default opt in for sharing every detail about your life with Google
- Need to root phone to get full functionality and remove garbage protected apps
- Separate
- Only some apps can have some portion moved off internal memory. Many phones have very limited internal memory. There are kludges to get around this if you root the phone (such as link2sd, or apps2sd and Titanium backup moving apps to SD card even if not marked to do so, but some apps don't play well with these solutions and you still end up limited)
- Incompatibility between versions of Android
The upside:
- Google voice is impressive
- Heaps of apps, some very good. Lots of apps to quickly look things up - from guitar tab to identifying a song that's playing. Great travel and web apps. Apps that use your phone's GPS into a fully featured instrument, not to mention games.
- Familiar Unix commands, even a terminal on the phone
Re:Android has it's flaws (Score:4, Interesting)
From the consumer's perspective, it doesn't matter where the crapware came from. If it's on the phone and it can't be removed, then you are stuck with a phone full of crapware, end of story.
And that simply doesn't happen with an iPhone. What's so hard to understand about that?
One man's overcomplication... (Score:3)
... is another man's flexibility. This is the same company that apparently thought giving people access to basic file attributes was too complicated, and so removed and obfuscated them in Windows 7 to the point that yet another third party shell-extension utility is needed to make up for it. (What's worse is that the labeled "Read Only" box now doesn't actually represent JUST the read-only attribute any more, but now also combines permissions and/or sharing states in some confusing fashion that even I haven't yet figured out... which is kinda exactly the opposite of simplification.)
Blamer (Score:3)
An example of yet another "has been" ( tho obscenely wealthy "has been" i admit, but only due his friend Bill ) trying to cling desperately to old ways of doing business, instead of adapting.
Him stepping down would do Microsoft a world of good.
cheap shots (Score:3)
you don't need to be a computer scientist to use a Windows Phone.'"
True. You need to be a total idiot.
Really, Balmer, that was way too easy. You need to realize where MS is this decade: Nobody loves you anymore, and your monopoly is crumbling. You've done an excellent job delaying the downfall of MS, but as the company is a dinosaur unable to re-invent itself, playing the FUD card again and again and again will accomplish one thing: Using it up.
Re:He does have some good points (Score:5, Insightful)
And you typed it all in less than a minute...
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Or he's a subscriber and had time to pre-write it.
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Read all his comments, nothing but astroturf.
Re:He does have some good points (Score:5, Insightful)
Give up already. You had the comment pre-written. WinPhone7 might be great, but if it is let it win on its merits not your astroturfing.
You can say lots of about a product and not be a shill, prewritten comments and promoting tons of product from one vendor at once is clearly shill behavior.
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h4rr4r - Shills everywhere are outraged that you compare LA to them. Shills shill for the thrill of the shill, but they do so with their own material. LA here is much worse, he has his own motivations that are beyond being a huge fanboy... Maybe LA really thinks these things, and truly believes it all... Maybe he's paid... Maybe he's not. Either way, that's the beauty of the culture here:
Without a solid foundation, based on facts and a hint of humility to admit that it is just his opinion, he's lumped
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Apple is no competitor to anyone really - on the long term. They were there first 4 years ahead of everyone, which pretty much explains their dominant position today. But this is fading and pretty fast. In 10 years they'll probably hold 10-20 % of the market and nothing more. This is mostly due to their closed platform and their "one phone to fit them all" policy.
So, they're not a long-term competitor.
Today, however, they control roughly one smartphone out of two. Allowing them to do the new ActiveSync woul
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Being a shill is nothing to be proud of. Besides shouldn't you be on the MSN online service? This Internet thing is nothing but a hobby or a toy since it is based on all that open source software.
As trolls/astroturfers go, he went too far. Dissing open source on Slashdot isn't bright, if you're trying to sound respectable here.
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If the computing environment in South East Asia from were he claims to be is similar to the one in Latin America with a monoculture of Microsoft is not hard to believe that he is expressing his true, honest opinion. The neat thing of slashdot is its diversity of opinions, we should welcome opinions that go against the groupthink as long they are not trollish.
Re:He does have some good points (Score:5, Insightful)
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Judging from this article [msn.com], it would seem that the folks at msnbc.com didn't get the memo from good ol' Steve.
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How is that job any different than sending spam emails?
Some people probably love sending those or at least composing them to get around filters.
Re:He does have some good points (Score:5, Insightful)
Why such a negative connotation?
I'm sure there are plenty of people that would love to have that job.
Do you also blame individual soldiers when the war is lost?
No, I blame soldiers when they obey illegal orders knowing full well that they are illegal.
Just like I blame astroturfers for performing unethical activities knowing full well that they are unethical.
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I thought it was the Kool-Aid guy and was wondering which wall he burst threw while I wasn't looking. Well, he does have a pitcher of MS Kool-Aid, so it stands to reason, no?
I am not a complete hater. If they want to farm stupid people, please by all means do. Make sure they can call you instead of bothering me. Stupid people need bad products to burn them. It keeps them in line, and if they had smarter products, they might be successful and sweet Jesus, we can't have that! That would mean they might breed
Re:How can someone with no technical knowledge... (Score:4, Informative)
....mmmm the point I guess is that HE CAN'T.... its been none too obvious that MS has completely stagnated during the past DECADE. As an admitted stock holder of MSFT who is quite disappointed, I say this with all seriousness. Ballmer has got to go if MS is going to go anywhere itself...
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That's some first post. What are the odds you didn't have this astroturf typed and ready knowing this article would be posted? Pretty much zero.
He has a GREAT point! (Score:2)
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Windows Phone 7 UI is really well done.
If Ballmer meant that - and he probably did - then he should have said UI, not OS.
When people stop using the almost meaningless term "operating system", and refer to what they mean - kernel, UI, packaged apps, public API - there might be less pointless arguments about Mac vs. Windows vs. "Linux".
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Oh please, didn't we end the neckbeard pedantry over what an "OS" is years ago? An OS is the software that comes with the device you buy. That's what it means when you talk about a phone OS.
So all of those free trial versions of software are part of the operating system? Symantec's antivirus is part of the operating system? Notepad is part of the operating system?
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Oh please, didn't we end the neckbeard pedantry over what an "OS" is years ago? An OS is the software that comes with the device you buy. That's what it means when you talk about a phone OS.
Well, considering that this is a tech site, frequented by people who do actually comprehend the difference, I'd say it's not moot. Particularly given that two of the major contenders here, iOS and Android, are both embedded Unix variants under the hood anyway. It's especially relevant when you consider that the GUI layer on Android (which is, as you say, what most people mean when they refer to an operating system) is not fixed, as with iOS and Windows. Alternate (and, in many cases, superior) GUIs are read
Re:He does have some good points (Score:5, Informative)
And, Windows 8 tablets will have the advantage of being able to run standard Windows programs if they want to (.NET apps should work even without recompiling).
On x86 tablets, it's not surprising, but their battery life and weight remain to be seen.
On ARM tablets, no, you won't be able to run .NET apps without recompiling, much less any random desktop app - as the only API supported for third-party apps on ARM devices is WinRT, anything that's not written to use that has to be refactored - and it's neither binary nor source-compatible to any current Windows APIs. Generally speaking, a Silverlight app would be easiest to port, but it's still not "just recompile and run".
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Android is a copy of iPhone, but not that well done.
O RLY? So why is it that so many of the "cool new features" in iOS 5 are features that Android has had for quite awhile now?
Re:He does have some good points (Score:5, Informative)
Because Google uses a time machine. Each iteration of Android copies, imperfectly, features from future versions of iOS.
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Because Google uses a time machine. Each iteration of Android copies, imperfectly, features from future versions of iOS.
I thought it was Apple that had the Time Machine...
Re:He does have some good points (Score:5, Funny)
See? Google takes everything from them.
Re:He does have some good points (Score:4, Funny)
Just like Windows is still implementing features that Unix has had for decades. Microsoft has a time machine too, they just use it wrong.
Re:He does have some good points (Score:5, Insightful)
many times, I am critical of MS but I think the guy did not deserve to be modded down to 0 points.
I am gonna get (ice) creamed for this... but the ui is indeed well done, the way the os works to safegard against misbehaving apps yet allow flexibility is good, the developer tools are nice (it took me about hour to write a simple app - time to download visual studio included - and that time I ever touched .net), since it is .net not prisoner of one language, good tool developing visually, advertising is as simple as adding an ad control... they actually put some efforts into this.
Not sure if they'll get many developers interested in the marketplace at $99 a year unless their device sales pick up though.
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Re:He does have some good points (Score:4, Insightful)
I think he refers to the "icon grid" UI paradigm. Most people who say that Android is like iOS mean that.
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Don't tell me. I've used Nokia phones ages ago, and these had icon grid pretty much identical to what we have today (even before touchscreens).
Nonetheless, icons are the first thing noticed when you compare home screens of two phones side by side, and they look similar enough that many people take it as a proof that one copies from the other...
Re:He does have some good points (Score:4, Funny)
And that Palm copied from Mac OS, which presumably copied it from Xerox?
Xerox copied from itself :P
Re:He does have some good points (Score:5, Insightful)
you blog is wrong, it is comparing stock android to HTC modified android. The HTC modified android looks a lot different than the Google android on the nexus phones.
All these brainless comparisons of Android vs iPhone vs Windows 7 GUI styles are made hopelessly irrelevant by one simple fact: the Android user interface is completely changeable on a moment's notice by installing one of numerous third-party home applications. Right there in the Market: no tweaking, rooting or hacking needed. Just click and run: some of the best ones are even free! Even though both iOS and Android are Unix-derived operating systems at the core, one of the two locks you into what the manufacturer thinks is best for you ... and the other doesn't.
.. Regina 3D is good for that, "No way this is Android." "Yeah way". "No, no way.")
Hell, there are so many home apps in the Market (some of them are seriously slick) that there are several "home manager" apps that let you switch between them at will! To give you a better idea of what I'm talking about, currently on my rooted G2 I have ADW Launcher (the default for Cyanogenmod, my favorite Android ROM), ADW Launcher Ex (my current favorite home app), Launcher Pro, Go Launcher, Regina 3D (uses the GPU and is visually stunning) and a few others. I sometimes switch interfaces just because of what I happen to be doing at the time (or, ha ha, who I happen to want to impress
Furthermore, there are Android distributions that have completely rewritten user interfaces. There are several variants of the MIUI ROM: one of the more popular ones that is more iPhone-like in operation. Don't particularly care for it myself, but then again I don't particularly care for the iPhone. To each his own, I suppose. Regardless, it is utterly painless to give your Android device a complete GUI makeover in a matter of seconds. Consequently it's really, really hard to say that any phone's GUI is better than Android, because there are a ton of easily-installable options, many of which are very professional. I'm also tired of iPhone fanboys making cracks about "well, if I wanted to have to recompile my OS just to get my phone to work I'd have an Android." That's just pure ignorance (or spite) and belies the fact that Android really is pretty goddamned flexible, in ways that iPhone and Windows Mobile will never, ever be. Now, understand I'm making no claims about anything special about Android per se: it's just another smartphone operating system. What I am saying is that Android owners gain the many benefits of an open-source environment. Neither the iPhone or Windows 7 Mobile will ever be open. Period. End of statement. Do they have a "better" user interface than Android? Hard to say: which Android user interface are we going to compare against? Which version of Android? See the problem?
We may also be seeing an early trend by device manufacturers to start opening their boot loaders. HTC, for example, has actually released a bootloader SDK. That's a first, and it's amazing. I'd be willing to bet money that since Google now owns Motorola that that company will change its stance on third-party operating systems (I believe Cyanogenmod already supports the Atrix.) It's past time that handset makers start treating their products for what they are: general-purpose pocket-sized portable computers, and not dedicated black boxes of which they maintain ownership after they're sold. If this continues, it means that the concept of "rooting" will become a thing of the past, and that user choice in operating systems will become a reality. Not something that the likes of Microsoft and Apple ever want to see, but it's good for the consumer.
Speaking on a more general note about operating systems, one thing that generally stands out in the Linux world is the number of distros which are derived from a few older ones. Debian, for example, is the foundation for a number of other distributions (Ubuntu/Ku
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The Internet are not only http and email.
But you sure will pimp any product they make, huh?
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Real business savvy there. Why haven't they fired the guy yet again?
Yeah, it's obvious Ballmer doesn't know how to make a successful company. He has only been the main guy handling the worlds largest computer technology company's finances since the beginning. On top of that he also seems to make lots of long-term plans (Xbox, Bing, even while they were hurting first), unlike competitors who just go for quick money grab. Such a bad business man.
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Yeah, it's obvious Ballmer doesn't know how to make a successful company.
Indeed. Just look at Microsoft's stock price history.
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If he's such a wondrous business man, why have Microsoft's shares flatlined? Why, after spending millions of dollars over the last fifteen years can they still not build a web portal or search engine that garners more than a minority stake?
Ballmer is overseeing Microsoft's passage into dull corporate middle age, and Microsoft's still totally reliant on the core product base of Windows and Office that it was a decade ago.
Re:Business smarts (Score:5, Insightful)
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Or like trying to pay $33 billion for Yahoo?
A monkey could do a better job, and it would take less pay.
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Bing lost Microsoft billions. Xbox also lost them billions. I seriously doubt they've even made up the initial losses with the Xbox 360. He really is a bad business man. He's mostly a "me-too" person without any vision.
Re:Business smarts (Score:5, Informative)
>Why haven't they fired the guy yet again?
Because of the amount of voting stock he owns. Remember that he was there from the absolute beginning in 1976. The only way he's leaving is by having a heart attack whilst throwing a chair or voluntarily retiring.
--
BMO
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There's your Win Phone market.
Irony is certainly not lost on a name.
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You mean as opposed to the iPhone?
WTF happened to you, AC? You used to be so witty and inciteful.. uh, I mean insightful.
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