Verizon Cracks Down On Jailbreak Tethering 286
tekgoblin writes "Verizon, like AT&T has now started blocking jailbroken phones from using un-sanctioned tethering apps. Verizon will now require users to be subscribed to a mobile tethering plan to be able to use tethering at all." So which mobile company's actually any good for 3G tethering, voice service aside? My Virgin Mobile MiFi (bought under a plan no longer available) is theoretically unlimited and "only" $40/month, but has had too much downtime for my taste, and atrocious customer service.
How do they tell? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:How do they tell? (Score:3, Informative)
Highly illegal deep packet inspection. :) It breaks a ton of privacy laws put in place by the Fed AND local governments.
Re:How do they tell? (Score:2)
Highly illegal deep packet inspection. :) It breaks a ton of privacy laws put in place by the Fed AND local governments.
Actually there is no federal or state law on the book that restricts the use of DPI by service providers. Using DPI to route traffic DOES place at risk their "Safe harbor" status under the DMCA. Unfortunately, since ISPs are now agreeing to be the private police force for copyright holders that no longer matters.
Re:How do they tell? (Score:2)
I'd imagine that traffic from a desktop/laptop is far different from that of a mobile phone. For starters, significant amounts of HTTP traffic with a user agent from Windows/Mac/Linux would be a tipoff. Not saying it's foolproof or the only way, for sure, but that would be one easy way to narrow down the list.
Re:How do they tell? (Score:2)
Actually, the tethering ability is controlled by the provider. Sprint and Boost block the native ability to tether. Tether (previously known as TetherBerry) does work around that, but all of your internet traffic is relayed through their server in California. He hasn't opened it up to allow you to use the relay server of your choice.
I've used it for a while with my Windows laptop and Blackberry on Boost. it works very well. The speed is usually very good. I only use it when I really need it though, so they won't cut me for 20 minutes a month of tethering. :)
I picked up a Barnes & Noble Nook Color the other day, and of course converted it to be a full fledged Android system. It works great at the house, but I couldn't find a way to tether it to my Blackberry. It looks like I'll be switching over to an Android phone soon, so I can tether it. The Nook makes a pretty nice little tablet, which will be nice to travel with. I hate trying to use my laptop on an airplane. Even in first class (I'm the king of upgrades), it's a bit tight for a big laptop.
Re:How do they tell? (Score:2)
They may be looking at browser tags and anything that doesn't come standard on an un-jailbroken cell phone would be considered an unauthorized tether. But that's just a guess. And, of course, it can easily be spoofed.
Re:How do they tell? (Score:2)
You can change user-agents on browsers available in the Apple app store. They even provide an official API for doing it.
Re:How do they tell? (Score:2)
Re:How do they tell? (Score:2)
Afaict verizon is CDMA so they have to register any devices onto the network (unlike with GSM where you can drop your SIM into any device) so presumablly they would only allow such a device to be registered on an appropriate plan.
Re:How do they tell? (Score:2)
You mean some way, like, say, swapping SIM cards as is commonplace in europe, or on any of the GSM networks in the states, for that matter?
Re:How do they tell? (Score:2)
this is insane.
I used to have a 3g modem on contract with 3 mobile (known as hutchinson telecom in other parts of the world)
till they screwed me over for going over my plan. however the prepay is excellent value for money i now use my sim in a samsung galaxy europa (2.1 android cost â90 for the phone)which has a 7.2 megabyte modem built in I pay â20 a month and use â4.99 of that to buy 500 mb of data. They also give me free skype for 30 days 3000 texts to use any time and 3000 minutes of calls for the weekends.
If I had any need for more data i can switch the sim card to the 3G modem if I really want but to be honest I don't need too. I tend to use barnacle if I want to use my archos7 (2.1 android based and â119.99 at carphone warehouse) or my AspireOne netbook running ubuntu.
The phone although small is quite capable yesterday with the free winamp app i was streaming shoutcast stations and playing them on my car radio via bluetooth (128k streams suffer from drop out in the country when travelling at 60 mph / 100 kmh lower bit rate stations are fine). I also use the free google navigation from time to time which can direct me to the nearest fast food joint (handy when you need to take a leak after driving the last 2 hours getting to an unfamiliar city).
Oh and 2 days ago i got a text message from the network provided i top up by â20 a month they are now going to give me unlimited data and free calls to other users on their network.
This is in Ireland but they do similar things in other countries. My uncle in Galway flew to Australia and had the rather pleasant experience of being able to use Australia's 3 network at Irish prices (a scheme called like home which unfortunately has ended).
Maybe the problem is in the contracts people sign? I personally wouldn't sign a contract with a mobile phone company again, even with 3 who obviously I like. They did sting me for an extra â100 for going over my data plan on contract which more than wiped out the cost saving over a prepay modem
I have heard of worse cases one woman it was â300 for out of plan data not something she could easily afford compared to the â20 a month she usually paid.
I am pretty sure I have the best deal in ireland but there are o2 vodaphone eirecom meteor and others. I can take my number with me across networks and have my phone unlocked legally by my carrier.
By being prepay my carrier has to look after me or i walk simple as that. If you want to be treated as a valued customer then perhaps you should end your contract when it finishes and go to prepay being tied to a contract really does make you your providers bitch.
(prices are in euro's but are close enough to be american dollar prices unfortunately slashdot chews up the euro symbol)
Re:How do they tell? (Score:3)
Re:How do they tell? (Score:3)
Eh, I don't think so. I've set up a VPN for use from my phone and I don't tether. I just don't trust random open wifi networks, and feel semi-insecure doing things with sensitive info like banking without it.
Plus I have access to files at home, and all web traffic routed to my phone is filtered with Privoxy and compressed with Ziproxy.
Re:How do they tell? (Score:5, Insightful)
I use VPNs all the time on my cell phone, and never for tethering. I don't really trust most wireless networks out there, so having my traffic going through an encrypted tunnel out is something I do as a matter of routine. A lot of "free" Wi-Fi places also have ad injectors (a la Phorm) so having an encrypted link gets rid of third party meddling in what I am doing.
Re:How do they tell? (Score:2)
Re:How do they tell? (Score:2)
Re:How do they tell? (Score:2)
whoa, that's rather bitter.
I commute 20 miles each way on the train and work right in the city centre. Guess what, no wi-fi anywhere from me stepping out my door at home to arriving back again. The train service is a branch line, so no wifi there. OK, there's free wifi for the 2 minutes I'm transiting the train station in the city but other than that.. nada.
At home, why pay for two phone services when I can get unlimited texts and near unlimited free calls on my iPhone plan. More and more people are ditching their landlines in favour of the cell phone plan, or even skype.
so yeah, the smartphone is becoming ubiquitous but to say people should stop using it because the towers can't cope is ridiculous, They need to build more and bigger towers. They can afford it with the money they rake in from users. (e.g. Roaming charges, though getting better, are ridiculous)
Stop being so bitter
Re:How do they tell? (Score:2)
"Or here is an even better idea, how about you don't use your cell phone for the damned Internet and instead either use the Wifi which is all over the damned place or wait until you get home?"
Why don't you just go a step further and stay of the internet completely. It'd probably do you some good.
The issue, is when we pay $200 for unlimited service, which seldom is unlimited, and then have further limits. Consumer's get annoyed. When said corporations are fueled by government endorsed monopolies there is little for consumers to do but vent and maybe called a Congressmen or two.
Lastly, now that we've been relegated from unlimited data to 2 gb of data. It shouldn't make a damnable difference how we use our 2gb of data. Sorry, if we're already annoyed by the fact that text messages are the most over-priced commodity in the world.
Re:How do they tell? (Score:2)
Oh, and let me add that I almost never come across free/open WiFi outside the likes of McDonald's or Panera's.
Re:How do they tell? (Score:2)
I've yet to find a hotel or free wifi hotspot that had better internet than my 3G connection in both terms of latency and bandwidth. This says nothing of 4G. Also, why does Europe not have these problems? As I understand it they have higher population density and cheaper cell service (though perhaps also better Wifi coverage and maybe that is the answer.) That all said, I will use whatever the best available connection is. If it is wifi, I will use that. If it is cellular, I will use that.
Re:How do they tell? (Score:2)
Re:How do they tell? (Score:2)
Phone based traffic is sent via their WAP gateway where as tethered traffic isn't, at least that's what someone said in a previous article on the subject. If thats true then all they need to do is monitor all non WAP traffic and compare where it's coming from against the people paying for tethering.
Re:How do they tell? (Score:2, Informative)
Phone based traffic is sent via their WAP gateway where as tethered traffic isn't, at least that's what someone said in a previous article on the subject. If thats true then all they need to do is monitor all non WAP traffic and compare where it's coming from against the people paying for tethering.
This is not true. WAP was for phones before they had browsers that could read full HTML. The WAP server acted as a proxy and converted the HTML down to a subset that the phones could handle. This stopping being true with the advent of modern smartphones that can do standard HTML.
While I can't say for sure, as they could be doing something I'm not aware of, my guess is it's just simple DPI which means the previous posters suggestion of using your tether to make a VPN tunnel back to your home router/server should work. Might need to check for client sigs in VPN tunnel setup as a laptop client like Cisco AnyConnect might give itself away durning initial tunnel setup.
However if you run up the bytes I'm guessing you'll still hear from them.
Re:How do they tell? (Score:2)
Aside from browser ID strings - which as others mentioned are easily spoofed - traffic patterns are probably just as identifiable. If I were to tether from my computer, it's not just browser traffic they would see. My mail client would be reaching out checking for updates, Dropbox would keep checking for changes and syncing, as would Evernote... This is probably especially true for Windows users: antivirus traffic, Windows update traffic... Youtube videos could be loaded that otherwise wouldn't on a mobile device. Short, high-bandwidth bursts of traffic are more likely from a tethered desktop than a phone - in Chrome I often load up 6-8 of the pages in my home tab on start, simultaneously. That's hard to do in a mobile browser. Even the user agent string is a good indication - who browses everything with a user agent set to a desktop on a mobile device? Sure, it's useful at times, if a site is misbehaving, but most often the mobile versions of pages are better for mobile devices. If they see a whole session of browsing with a desktop user agent, yeah, they'll probably be suspicious.
And your browser reports more than what browser it is, what version, what OS. They generally report information on plugins and fonts and compatibilities, too, which can be very unique and easily identifiable: https://panopticlick.eff.org/ [eff.org]
Re:How do they tell? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:How do they tell? (Score:2)
Those who use their phone as a modem (PC does TCP/IP) are the first to trigger the alerts, those who use SSH-SOCKS (phone does TCP/IP) are harder to tell (all packets originate from phone, traffic not using proxy isn't seen), in which case they have to see if connections are made to odd ports and the like (e.g., if you try to ssh to a host).
My phone can ssh to places (Cyanogenmod 7). There are also apps in the Android and Apple app stores that ssh too. How do they tell that vs. a tethered computer using ssh?
Re:How do they tell? (Score:2)
Man, I'm glad I live in a country where I can have an unlimited data plan for 19 EUR, with a public IP adress (not a fixed address, though), mostly no filtering, and I can use any damn phone I want with any OS I want. Granted, the country is small (Luxembourg) so the cost of operating the network is kinda lower, but still...
Anyway, I'm not sure how they could tell the difference between my smartphone and my PC: my smartphone is a N900, which runs a Linux TCP/IP stack, and mostly the same programs as a desktop Linux: I routinely use ssh, empathy (for VoIP), ping, and nmap on the phone, and sometimes I run OpenVPN and rtorrent (not necessarily together).
Re:How do they tell? (Score:5, Informative)
It depends on the device you're using.
In Android and Windows Mobile 6.5/6.1/5, your NAI (network access identifier) changes based upon the type of traffic you're pushing. Tethered traffic and DUN changes your NAI to yournumber@dun.vzw3g.com. Traffic from the phone itself is simply yournumber@vzw3g.com.
Verizon has poisoned EVERY phone with Gingerbread - they have modified the OS so that activating any hotspot app, even if the phone is rooted, to trigger the NAI change and show the phrase "Tethering or Hotspot Active." The only SAFE way to tether on a Verizon phone is to run Froyo, then use free-wifi-tether's 3.x version. Alternatively, install CyanogenMod and then you can tether.
For iOS? Hell, you're screwed any way you turn.
Re:How do they tell? (Score:2)
Even apps from outside the market? PDAnet is not from the market and I have not seen a message about tethering. They also have a "stealth mode" to hide your usage, but I bet you can't hide the traffic pattern a laptop generates.
Would Tether + VPN on the laptop work?
Maybe I need to check and see if Verizon will let me turn on and off tethering easily. If so, I don't mind paying a little for that feature, but I doubt they make it easy or cheap.
Re:How do they tell? (Score:2)
Re:How do they tell? (Score:2)
I'd love to see Cyanogenmod have better VPN support, whether I use tether or not.
Right now you can connect to a VPN, but only traffic for hosts on the VPN is transferred over the VPN.
I'd like an arrangement where 100% of all my phone's traffic (controlled at the OS level) is sent through the VPN. My home broadband can easily handle the data a phone will generate, and I'm not concerned with a little extra latency with what I do.
There is an openvpn setting that is supposed to do something like this, but it apparently even sends DHCP traffic through the VPN which means you'll lose your lease (and it is fussy to set up anyway). Plus, if the VPN link drops it will just send traffic over the normal network interface, which means you lose privacy on whatever you were sending.
I would think from an implementation standpoint all it needs to do is:
1. Create a VPN tunnel on a network interface (all VPN software does this already).
2. Make the VPN tunnel the default route (just a routing table change).
3. Use netfilter/etc to block all but carefully-selected traffic to the phone's real ethernet interface. The VPN service obviously needs access, as does the DHCP service.
4. Ensure that there are no leaks if the VPN goes down for a minute (user-controllable setting) - making sure the firewall rules don't get torn down if the VPN service hiccups is all that should require.
Then all the provider gets is a big stream of VPN traffic and some DHCP packets. No way to steal cookies, insert ads, track behavior, or violate net-neutrality. They can charge by the GB and they can count how many GB I use, so there is no theft of service.
Re:How do they tell? (Score:4, Funny)
Simple, you successfully load and play Flash on an iPhone. They know you're tethered. LOL
Re:How do they tell? (Score:2)
Re:How do they tell? (Score:2)
I believe it looks at th packet's TTL value. Traffic from the phone has one value and traffic originating elsewhere has that value -1.
If so that's easy to spoof (assuming initial value from the phone isn't the field max) by hacking the tethered device to start with a higher TTL.
You could also hack the phone to bump up the TTL of the toward-network forwarded packet - at the risk of immortalizing a looping packet (which is what TTL exists to prevent).
Re:How do they tell? (Score:3)
There are lots of clues
User agents would be a clue (IIRC some mobile browsers spoof those but it wouldn't surprise me if there are subtule differences between the commonly spoofed strings and the common ones on desktops). There is likely other information in the http request that differs too.
If the tethering software was making the phone act as a nat router TTLs and other TCP/IP options could be a clue
If the tethering software worked by loading a proxy on the phone then an x-forwarded for header could be a clue
Large downloads would be a clue, so would very high overall data use.
As you say traffic from application that don't exist on the phone would be an especially damning clue
Afaict most mobile phone contracts have a clause allowing termination for any or no reason whatsoever so they don't exactly need absolute proof that someone is teathering to send them a "cease or pay up" letter with a threat of disconnection.
Sprint (Score:3)
My HTC Evo comes with a wi-fi hotspot app built in that allows I believe 4 clients. It may not be the fastest but it works.
Re:Sprint (Score:2)
Does that work without the $30/month account extra? Since it can be turned on and off without re-upping the contract, and it's billed on a daily basis, I do find it useful on the odd occasion I know I'm going to need it.
Comment removed (Score:3)
Re:Sprint (Score:2)
So I took my iPhone 4 SIM out (Score:2)
Re:So I took my iPhone 4 SIM out (Score:3)
You didn't do that on a Verizon phone.
Re:So I took my iPhone 4 SIM out (Score:2)
and put it in my Nexus S to tether - so I guess it isn't a jailbroken device, right?
You didn't do that on a Verizon phone.
Why would anyone buy a Nexus S phone from a phone carrier? That would be plain stupid, as the one big advantage of having a Nexus phone (getting the latest updates from Google) is gone when a phone carrier like Verizon puts its own tweaked version of Android on the phone.
Re:So I took my iPhone 4 SIM out (Score:2)
Sprint (Score:2)
Their speeds aren't the best, but they don't restrict usage at all. I can tether my (rooted) 4G android phone for free with no data caps or throttling (as far as I can tell), and on occasion I've used nearly ten gigs over a WiMAX connection while on vacation without any issue. I've rarely needed customer service as downtime and issues in general are virtually nonexistent, but it's there when needed and is pretty good.
As for price, though, the smaller/contractless providers like Virgin Mobile may be your best bet. I've heard they're far cheaper than any of the "big three" and make good on their "unlimited" promises. Even so, I can't vouch for their quality, having never used one myself.
Re:Sprint (Score:2)
Stock Android has USB tethering out of the box since, IIRC, 2.2.
Re:Sprint (Score:2)
It does, but cellular carriers have the ability to disable it. I know that by default, Verizon devices won't show up the option for tethering (wireless or USB) unless you have the option on your phone.
Of course, that is easily gotten around with a custom ROM, or root.
Re:Sprint (Score:2)
They can only disable it on the phones they sell, and that is done by modding as well. There is no remote killswitch or anything like that in vanilla android.
Re:Sprint (Score:3)
...but you'll rarely see stock Android on your phone. To install a version that the tethering hasn't been cut out of by the carrier or manufacturer, you still need root.
Re:Sprint (Score:2)
Depends where you live. I never had reception problems before I left Sprint.
Telstra (Score:2)
Telstra offers quite reliable 3G service, and for $30 on prepaid you get about 400 minutes (depending on call lengths) plus 400 megs, $40 gets you ~1000 minutes and 800 megs, or $60 gets you 2000 minutes and 3GB.
No restrictions on device, tether all you want.
Re:Telstra (Score:2)
It was fun deal when the new devices entered the Australian market and they wanted in on the buzz.
You can use any device you want until x00 megs.
In Australia its a per meg limit. In the US its a rent the $x1000 dongle with some 'free'* downloads.
Re:Telstra (Score:2)
Telestra isn't an option. Do they even provide service in the US? Around here we've got precisely 4 choices.
With what staff do they intend to do this? (Score:2)
In MA, the IBEW and CWA declared a strike against Verizon starting yesterday (Sunday). So, Verizon has very little trained staff on right now, and they want to do things to make their phones seem like they're broken to the end-user. This will turn out well....
Re:With what staff do they intend to do this? (Score:2, Troll)
In MA, the IBEW and CWA declared a strike against Verizon starting yesterday (Sunday). So, Verizon has very little trained staff on right now, and they want to do things to make their phones seem like they're broken to the end-user. This will turn out well....
I have this idea that union members are never the brains behind any operation.
Re:With what staff do they intend to do this? (Score:2, Troll)
What about the new FCC law the says any app and an (Score:2)
What about the new FCC law the says any app and any network?
Re:What about the new FCC law the says any app and (Score:2)
What about the new FCC law the says any app and any network?
That policy does not say what free tethering proponents think it says.
most routers can clone a MAC address now days (Score:2)
most routers can clone a MAC address now days
Re:What about the new FCC law the says any app and (Score:2)
Maybe Not (Score:2)
1. After clicking through a few links I found the original story:
http://www.mobiledia.com/news/101731.html [mobiledia.com]
2. Mine still works. The only source I found is some guy who says he got the landing page you get when you use Verizon's app. Anyone actually get this warning using any of the non Verizon apps?
Re:Maybe Not (Score:2)
I found particularly interesting the phrase "illegal data tetherers". Something doesn't smell right here.
Sprint (Score:2)
My wife is a heavy media consumer with Pandora and Netflix. Occasionally my AT&T home internet goes out, and I stay online for work and play by using Wired Tether (http://android-wired-tether.googlecode.com/ [googlecode.com]) because my desktop doesn't have 802.11. I frequently use the Wireless Tether (http://android-wifi-tether.googlecode.com/ [googlecode.com]) when I'm out and about with my laptop, as my "4G" (San Francisco bay area) is generally faster than free WiFi and I don't have to deal with a gateway.
All told, it's rare for us to be under 4 gigs per month, and I haven't received any communication from Sprint other than the occasional text advertisement and our monthly statement, but YMMV.
Remember, it's a cell phone company (Score:2)
Sky High Promises
High Rates
Bad Service
Lousy Support
and the power to get away with it.
Nothing new there, even before smartphones the complaints were the same.
Whats the difference how you use the data??? (Score:2)
Re:Whats the difference how you use the data??? (Score:2)
You are aware they charge for text messaging...
Re:Whats the difference how you use the data??? (Score:2)
Desktops are more convenient to use, and so people end up using much more data on them. If all you use the tether for is browsing, then they shouldn't care. But if you're streaming an entire TV season on Netflix and downloading games on Steam, you're going to use up a lot of bandwidth. They want to dissuade people from doing that.
The good way to do it would be with a flat price per GB, with a discount during off-peak hours. But they can make more money with the current tiered service plans, so that's what they'll do until and unless they are forced to stop through either competition (unlikely since other carriers can also make more money with the same tactics) or a law (unlikely since the Republicans are slaves to big business and the Democrats are spineless cowards who'll abandon their "principles" at the first sign of a fight).
Re:Whats the difference how you use the data??? (Score:3)
They want to dissuade people from doing that.
thats none of their business. If we have 2 GB of data allowed then how we get that data shouldn't matter. As someone else said, if we watch netflix the faster we get to the limit and the chance of paying overage fees are feasible. Don't understand why they wouldnt want to go that route.
Why should they care? (Score:2)
I suppose it makes their lousy network actually look as bad as it really is, but why else should they care? Didn't they do away with unlimited plans? If you're paying for the data, why should they give a damn how you are actually using it... unless of course, they CAN'T actually supply the data and bandwidth they are advertising. It's like selling lollipops but saying that you can't give one to your friend. If you run out of lollipops and want to buy more, ISN'T THAT THE WHOLE POINT??
jailbreak tether? pay for it? root? (Score:2)
Re:jailbreak tether? pay for it? root? (Score:3)
My WinMo6.1 phone does it out of the box. It's built into the OS
So do most Android phones. The tethering API has been included since 2.2 and HTC Sense has had it built in since 2.1.
If you're getting bent over by your phone company it's not your handsets fault (unless your handset was built for that purpose, which makes them an accessory).
Re:jailbreak tether? pay for it? root? (Score:2)
Androids do tethering out of the box too. But some carriers charge extra for tethered data. By rooting the phone, you can hide the fact that you're using it as a tether and thereby avoid the extra charges. That's what Verizon is cracking down on.
Re:jailbreak tether? pay for it? root? (Score:2)
Indeed, and the question is why it is that they're allowed to charge customers more depending upon what it is that they choose to do with the bandwidth. It's one thing to charge more for business accounts that need to be up constantly, but to charge more for the same service is just plain wrong.
Pick one or the other (Score:2, Insightful)
The FTC should step in and make it illegal to advertise bandwidth as "x GB" if the carrier puts restrictions on exactly what is and isn't allowed in those GB. At the very least it should come with an asterisk and a disclosure of limitations at the bottom of the ad. That way people know not to compare GB* to GB.
Re:Pick one or the other (Score:2)
Actually, it might be more apt to say they want to have their cake... and my cake... and eat them both.
Re:Pick one or the other (Score:2)
Umm... They have gotten rid of unlimited. They now throttle you if you are a "data hog" on the grandfathered unlimited and new users can't get unlimited at all.
So now they limit and charge for tethering.
Re:Pick one or the other (Score:2)
Yup, even T-Mobile has new "unlimited" plans that throttle at some level. The only difference between those plans and the grandfathered ones is that the new ones tell you what the threshold is. They always throttled you to 2G if you used too much bandwidth...
Re:Pick one or the other (Score:2)
I think it is the cable company mentality. Back in the 80s cable companies were all upset that some of their consumers would buy one cable box, and then split the coax to their TV and run it to a second TV. This of course was a serious inconvenience since you'd have to change rooms to change channels, but cable company executives probably spent a small fortune in meeting time trying to figure out ways to prevent it. I'm surprised they didn't lobby for the right to inspect homes at random, and the contracts invariably would say one TV per tuner box. In the end the behavior is very hard to police.
Cable companies had the same concerns about people being able to hook up more than one computer to a router. This actually is detectable most of the time right now, and they had a general resentment of not being able to charge for every computer, iPod, Tivo, and whatever else might be on that network. They never did end up policing this since it would have invariably led to consumer backlash.
Look at DRM where the goal is to get you to keep buying the same content over and over, eliminate libraries, and get rid of people loaning stuff to friends.
This is just another example of the corporate entitlement mentality. Why innovate and sell a new or better product when you can instead try to force people (through oligopoly power) to keep buying the same product over and over?
Re:Pick one or the other (Score:2)
The FCC regulates the airwaves, which is effectively the same as a right of way. Just as your local municipality can force whatever rules on Comcast/Cox/TimeWarner/*incumbent cable provider* for the right of way rights, the FCC can enforce regulations on organizations using a public resource.
Is this just an iPhone thing? (Score:2)
Re:Is this just an iPhone thing? (Score:2)
The iPhone, like most modern phones, can tether "out of the box" just fine. It's the phone companies that stop it. In fact the iPhone hotspots out of the box, which is a hell of a lot better than tethering. People who have not used an iPhone for any extended period of time should be banned from speaking about them.
ATT and Nokia E71 (Score:3)
Not the ATT-supplied E71x. I can tether using my Medianet account with this phone. Also a RAZR v3xx makes a very good tethering device. Both work very well and it was my only net access for a few months.
All this heavy handed crap... (Score:2)
...is just making Sprint look better and better really. Unless the guy at the Sprint store was lying to me, they don't care if you tether, they don't seem to care if you root, and they still have unlimited data (though apparently you need to root and such to avoid throttling at some point).
Re:All this heavy handed crap... (Score:2)
To be honest, Sprint has problems, but poor reception was never a problem I had with them. Incompetent customer service yes, inability to use whatever phone I like, yes, but I never had reception problems the way that I now do with AT&T.
Re:All this heavy handed crap... (Score:2)
Oh I'm sure they've got weaknesses, everyone has them, but in this sense, they're turning out to be the least dick-ish of companies. I used to hate Sprint back when I sold phones 10 years ago (I started out with my service being Airtouch, before they conglomerated into Verizon). They had lousy reception, the phones sucked, and they paid lower bonuses for selling phones and signing people up for service.
By comparison, they've really turned stuff around it seems.
Who wins in this race to the bottom? (Score:2)
Punishing customers, limiting services, lies in advertising... and we in the US continue to tolerate it. I don't and I won't but I am not large enough in numbers to make any difference. I just have to wonder what is wrong with the majority of people who are too lazy to vote with their dollars and to shop around for what's best. Damned sheeple.
Re:Who wins in this race to the bottom? (Score:3)
Agreed but the problem is lobbying. That crap needs to go away and nothing short of a revolution will change that. As things are, the chances of electing "reformists" and "anti-corruptionists" into office is pretty much nill. There would be smears and labelling campaigns... and if by some miracle that didn't work, there would be assassinations. There are some pretty nameless and faceless powerful people making things as they are and they would rather doom the country and the whole planet than to give up anything they have now. And if you think that goes a little far, look back at Ross Perot's presidential campaign and how well that went. First they tried to make fun of him, then they tried to smear him, then he dropped out citing threats to his family. (And I believe that happened -- nothing else could stop a man like Perot from getting what he wants)
Meanwhile, people look to strategies such as "voting against" someone else and only voting for people they consider to be "electable," This essentially turns elections into the same stupidity as the stock market -- trends follow worries, fears and emotions rather than reality. (Seriously, why would the US credit rating have so much affect on perceived US companies when they are all "multinational" now?)
Idiocracy... idiocracy.
Here's how to make people happy, telcos (Score:2)
Although there are a lot of crazy people that want to watch Hulu and stream HD radio over their wireless network all day every day, I think most people are reasonable.
Firstly, text messages should be free and unlimited. It is time to do this. They cost the carriers basically nothing. In Japan, text messages cost close to nothing and voice plans cost money. This makes sense. Voice is orders of magnitude more bandwidth-hogging than a tweet.
Next, data plans needn't be unlimited, but make a reasonable data cap -- enough for someone to play on the internet, read blogs with pictures, and play on youtube at least nightly.
Make customizable account settings for notifications when you are approaching your cap. Do you want daily data usage texts? Weekly? One text every 1GB? One text every 500MB? There should be options for that. And there should be an official app to show current monthly data usage, and there should also be a number to text message that will reply back with the same information (if, say, you are in an area with poor mobile data reception)
Put throttling in your account settings. And give it advanced scheduling features. If we are going to have data caps, we want to be able to use our phones effectively. That means a simple and easy way to say, "I want full 4GB speeds in the morning, but throttle my speeds to 2mbps between 7:30pm and 12:30am." I should be able to turn on and off throttling easily, set exactly how fast I want to throttle, I should be able to schedule throttling at different speeds at different times of the day, or set up my connection to throttle down to 4mbps when I read 2GB for the month, and 2mbps when I reach 3GB for the month, etc. If we're going to be expected to keep an eye on our bandwidth usage, you need to give us powerful ways to control ourselves.
And lastly, no obscene overage charges. If the bandwidth cap is broken, suspend the internet and send an immediate text message. Give two options explicitly and clearly in the text message: 1. throttle the speeds (come on, at least 768kbps down, 256kbps up. less than dial-up speeds are unacceptable) OR 2. continue with 4G speeds and charge per kilobyte used, but charge at the same rate as the plan that you're on. That means that if I'm getting data at $10 per 1 GB, I expect to be charged 1 cent per additional 1 MB. It is not acceptable to charge me 1 cent per 1 MB while under my cap, and then $1 per 1 MB when I go over my cap. The rates should be exactly the same. And I should be able to easily switch between the two at any time that I want.
And though it seems like common sense to normal people, it apparently isn't common sense to companies -- BE TRANSPARENT. If you don't respect your customers, your customers will not respect you. If the company says, "we're working hard to do A, B, C, and D, and we will have E, F, and G caps until we can finish," the customers will understand. If you say, "we are working to upgrade our network infrastructure to introduce A speeds and B increased cap by C date," the customers will be understanding and happy. Everything should be laid out clear and simple for the customer. It should not be hidden away or disguised. There will always be a "top 5%", no matter how much or how little data people use. If it gets to the point where everyone is using tons of data, it may be time to consider upgrading your infrastructure. Spend the money and do it. When you're done, advertise your new infrastructure and watch how you will *gasp* out-compete your competitors.
Re:Here's how to make people happy, telcos (Score:2)
And another thing that all companies nowadays -- not just telcos -- seem to have forgotten is the art of dealing with customers. Maybe you see us as walking bags of money. Fine, that's great. But it's no reason to treat us poorly. Treat the walking bags of money like shit, and they will do everything they can to exploit loopholes, bend rules, and steal. Treat the walking bags of money nicely and they will turn into loyal walking bags of money. It's not rocket science.
I have to say it again and again (Score:2)
Flatrates are stupid things. They should be forbidden. They are just a formulation for: "We will make absurd prices for metered plans so that we can scare everybody into using an oversized flatrate plan and if somebody really exceeds our usage expectations using some means, then we block (or slow down) the type of service he uses". Its maximally intransparent.
The only solution would be to only allow metered and unfiltered rates, because then the customers would have an easy time comparing the offers and it would be easy to detect a deviation from the simple (unfiltered) rule.
Light, intermittent prepaid -- t-mobile, is good (Score:2)
I am a t-mobile prepaid customer, with one of their LG Android Optimus-T handsets, which I got for $130 refurb.
I can get legal tethering from them by setting up the phone as a mobile hotspot for $1.50 a day. If
you use it every day, it is quite expensive, but if you just use it a few days a month for travel or
whatever, it is great. They give you 30 MB of very high speed (I think I have seen 1 MB/sec peaks),
and unlimited 2G for the rest of the day. If you are just checking email, or doing bandwidth-restricted
video chat back home for a while, it is plenty.
I juts got back from a conference trip, where the hotel charged $10/day for internet and you
couldn't even get it in the main conference area, and they didn't even have free internet in the
lobby. I spent my $1.50/day, and was able to edit code via ssh, talk to my wife via video chat
for a while, and look at the web. I had to make sure I did the video chat at the beginning of the
session, while I still was under the 30 MB throttling limit.
Re:t mobile (Score:2)
i like t mobile's plan scheme, where the first 2gig is at full speed and then your speed gets knocked down. instead of paying an arm and a leg for the data. their data plans are $10 a month and i've always been able to tether for free using the phone off the shelf. i hate to say it, but with their shitty service and all but they've got the best setup. all told i think that is a $20-50 per month saving
I've got T-mo as well. My (un-rooted) Vibrant came with a option in the settings to enable it to be a WiFi AP. When I bought the phone I was told that I could tether with no extra charges. Then a couple of months after I got it, this came out [androidpolice.com]:
T-Mobile recently announced the upcoming availability of a Tethering and Wi-Fi Sharing service plan that enables select smartphones to function as wireless modems for connecting devices, such as laptops, tablets and netbooks, to the Internet through the T-Mobile network.
I've only used it a couple of time, for my iPad, and so far they haven't modified my plan. But from the wording, it looks like they could. I suppose they'll only go after the biggest data hogs.
Re:In the UK... (Score:2)
this is what makes throttling and metering necessary: since everybody doing that would take the networks down, nobody (in the name of fairness) can be allowed to do it.
Re:The big 3 in Canada (Score:4, Interesting)
Not only does TELUS allow tethering, they actively encourage it. When they updated my Motorola milestone to froyo they bundled a tethering app that was not previously there. Additionally they are selling wifi only tablets and bragging that you don't need a separate data plan, you can simply use tethering. (according to the website "Share one data plan between your smartphone and tablet at no extra cost. It's easy, affordable, worry-free and secure." (bold text in original))
Now as for the plans themselves... these need major work, the biggest plan you can buy from TELUS is 5gig. They simply don't sell a bigger plan than that. I find this rather abysmally low.
TANSTAAFL (Score:2)
Something has to give; you (or rather, every subscriber) can't have both.
Re:TANSTAAFL (Score:3)
Something has to give; you (or rather, every subscriber) can't have both.
I don't think he was implying he wanted more than 5gigs at no extra cost. He wants the option of buying into a more expensive smartphone data plan that allows for more than 5 gigs a month. Then he wants to tether at no extra cost. That's a perfectly reasonable position.
Re:The big 3 in Canada (Score:2)
When I was renewing my contract earlier this year, and doing research on this stuff, Rogers and Fido do NOT allow tethering on the lower end data plans. You must subscribe to the 1GB or higher plans to get tethering.
Re:Terms of Service (Score:2)
Honestly, terms of service for almost anything now have reached such absurd levels in how lopsided they are that I just ignore the damned things now for anything I'm not using for business or negotiating for someone else. For personal use?
I got an email the other day from EA regarding them rolling over some account I registered years ago to Origin, and in their email was legalese describing how me not explicitly cancelling this new service was the same as me accepting the terms. Added onto that was their statement that they may "Alter the terms at any point, etc."
Now, for services provided to me which I am not paying for directly (I am paying for it by licensing my personal information though), I don't mind the ability for people to change terms to services they run on their servers, but it's slowly becoming that a lot of my purchased products have hooks in them which tie them back to the online service and their insane terms.
But I'm at the point where I just don't care. I'll open up a new email address and restart the service as long as they aren't revoking any of my ability to use purchased items. Now, once they start on that angle (and I'm sure they will eventually). It simply becomes a tradeoff analysis for me.
And we are back to the point where we decided that courts were a pretty good thing.
Pilgrim Jim and Bob get into a fist fight over rights of way for their sheep grazing. So society setup a system where we could sue each other instead of resorting to physical violence. What do you think is going to happen once one side effectively prohibits the other from seeking a redress in the legal system?
Re:Customer No-Service (Score:2)
I'm not really even sure what you think "is a good thing." Is it the "atrocious" customer service? It's the only thing relevant to your post that you quoted. No matter how stupid the people calling in are or how many of them are calling in, that's not good. I can't even begin to wonder why you think that is. Atrocious customer service is atrocious for all customers, not just idiots.
Not to mention, it would also be idiotic to assume that there aren't idiots on both sides of the phone line.
And don't try to wave off criticism by saying "You don't know what you're talking about." That's called ad-hominem.
Finally, I have to point out that what you wrote is completely off-topic; taking a minor point (a grand total of three words out of the summary) and making it out to be a major point.
Re:tmobile (Score:2)
To me it looks like there are too little competition on the mobile market in the US.
Re:tmobile (Score:2)
We moved recently and didn't have cable internet at home yet so we were tethering.
My fiancé tethered to her laptop and watched the entire Casey Anthony murder trial.
She got a txt telling her that she'd be throttled, but it didn't even impact her ability to stream the trial video.
Tmobile also has a "relationship" (twitter) with Steve Kondik (of Cyanogenmod custom ROM).
They have sent him hardware.
Whether you view this as them endorsing the jailbreaking / tethering community is up to you.