'Wi-Fi Illness' Spreads To Ontario Public Schools 663
An anonymous reader writes "Readers of Slashdot might be familiar with Lakehead University's ban on WiFi routers a few years ago in Thunder Bay, Ontario because of 'health concerns,' a policy apparently still in effect. Now it seems a group of concerned parents in a number of communities in Ontario have petitioned the local school boards over similar concerns at public schools, where their kids are apparently experiencing 'headaches to dizziness and nausea and even racing heart rates' — symptoms that appear only when they are in school on weekdays, not on weekends at home. 'The symptoms, which also include memory loss, trouble concentrating, skin rashes, hyperactivity, night sweats and insomnia, have been reported in 14 Ontario schools in Barrie, Bradford, Collingwood, Orillia and Wasaga Beach since the board decided to go wireless ...' Besides Wi-Fi signals, could there possibly be any other logical explanation for kids having more symptoms of illness on school days than at home on weekends or in the summer?"
Mod the summary funny (Score:5, Insightful)
"Besides Wi-Fi signals, could there possibly be any other logical explanation for kids having more symptoms of illness on school days than at home on weekends or in the summer?"
Um, being in school doesn't count as a reason?
Re:Mod the summary funny (Score:5, Funny)
As my mom used to call it... "Schoolitosis"
Re:Mod the summary funny (Score:5, Funny)
It's most likely the water chemistry. Most North American water systems are saturated with minerals
Wow. Imagine that. Minerals. In water. The humanity. I demand that North America triple distill all water before piping it to homes, lest we all be harmed by these evil minerals.
Re:Mod the summary funny (Score:5, Interesting)
You will notice he also said "various biological agents" and "that's just for starters". I agree that minerals are certainly normal in the water, but only when present in normal levels. There are plenty of examples all over the world where some minerals are present in dangerous levels, and some pretty unhealthy minerals like Arsenic.
There are also the example of where the fuel additive MTBE has greatly contaminated many water sources in the US and has affected the trust we have in our government to provide clean water. Then there is also the case of fluoride being added to the water supply and the mind control conspiracies that go along with it. Personally, I don't think the government needs to add fluoride to the water I drink, regardless of conspiracies about its purpose. I am an adult, if I think I need fluoride supplements I will take them. By their logic why not infuse the water with various supplements and vitamins as well? Perhaps a fat government contract with the fine folks that provide us Vitamin Water?
What about the biological agents? That is a real developing problem. Metabolized psychiatric and other drugs are present in water supplies all over the developed world. It is affecting fish species as we speak. If you are drinking tap water you ARE consuming some of these compounds, albeit in very small amounts they "deem" to be safe. Of course, there isn't exactly an abundance of data and studies yet that show us the real dangers either and what is really safe levels.
As full disclosure I will say I have zero faith in the FDA and any of those cocksucking regulators either. I *never* knew that Tuna sold in the US had levels of mercury in it, in whatever amounts. As an effort to lose weight I went on an all Tuna diet with a lot of vegetables (not corn, or peas, but salad type vegetables) and got a really nice case of mercury poisoning. Later on I found out that powers that be let small amounts of mercury be sold in the fish and don't exactly bend over backwards to test it either. Probably because of dollar bills that keep falling out of the fish industry executive's pockets. Quite a nuisance I am sure. If there was even the smallest disclosure on the can that said there might be levels of mercury in it, I would have never eaten it at all. I miss Tuna quite a bit, but it is not safe to eat in any amounts whatsoever. Why? The recommended daily allowance of mercury in your diet is ZERO. Of course the allowed daily allowance is non-zero. Go figure.
I know that the GP might have sounded a bit tin-foil-hattish to you, but there are plenty of justified reasons to not fully trust the people responsible for keeping our food and water supplies safe.
Water quality is a particularly serious issue and the various municipalities and engineers responsible have not exactly instilled me with an abundance of faith in their efforts. As a result, I don't trust any water that has not directly gone through my own water filtration systems and I tend to take water with me during the day. That does not leave me with very many beverage options to be sure, but most of the crap out there is full of high fructose corn syrup, chemicals, and other super healthy additives. It is quite easy for me to abstain.
Re:Mod the summary funny (Score:5, Informative)
Wish I had a mod points -- who the heck moderated parent as troll?! I find mercury poisoning from a tuna diet quite believeable, heck if you eat more than a can of tuna a day you may be putting yourself at risk.
You need to eat quite a bit of tuna on a tuna-based diet; perhaps a pound per day?
Let's run some numbers.
EPA's limit is 0.1micrograms per kg body mass per day. So for a 70kg adult, the EPA limit is 7ug per day.
Now one pound of tuna is ~450 grams, at FDA average of 0.2ppm concentration in tuna, you get 90 micrograms, so you're 13 times over the limit. If you're unlucky and get fish close to FDA limit of 1ppm mercury concentration, you get 0.45 mg.
Out of 0.45mg of mercury per day, about 0.4mg will be accumulating in luckiest of circumstances (to be conservative, I'd just assume 100%). You'll be sick in short order.
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Of course it's believable what isn't believable it that someone could be so stupid as to not know that large fish have high mercury levels. Especially if they decided to eat large amounts of it.
Re:Mod the summary funny (Score:5, Informative)
Perhaps this chart [fda.gov] helpfully provided by the cocksucking regulators with data going back as far as 1978 would have saved you some grief. Or perhaps the very notion of "I'm going to eat only one thing" might have encouraged a normal person to do some research beyond reading the label on the damn can.
What part of "consult with your doctor before starting any program of diet or exercise" didn't you understand?
And then seriously? Your reaction to your own gobsmackingly foolhardy ignorance about what you put into your body results in you trusting nobody but yourself to supervise your water quality?
Re:Mod the summary funny (Score:5, Insightful)
Other than eating Tuna in a can, my exposure to fish has been extremely limited in my lifetime. I don't eat fish or seafood, I don't eat Sushi, I don't live near the coast.
And yet 'in an effort to lose weight' you went on a tuna based diet, without consulting a doctor. To reiterate you'd never eaten seafood, your family doesn't eat seafood, your friends don't eat seafood, and yet you were willing to switch to a seafood based diet on a whim. Yeah I've made some assumptions, but given what you've told us they're probably not far off.
I'm somewhat sympathetic to the idea that you weren't able to afford a doctor (strange country!). But trying out a fad diet (on whose recommendation?) without getting any more information than the necessarily limited amount present on a label seems a little rash. It doesn't deserve getting called an idiot over, but it's not the smartest move.
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I thought the fluoride in the water is why we don't all have "british looking" teeth.
Re:Mod the summary funny (Score:5, Insightful)
Too much water is bad for you, period. See also water intoxication [wikipedia.org]. See, there, for all you who think alcohol is evil, you can get drunk on water, too.
Distilled water is worse as a thirst quencher after heavy exercise because it contains no electrolytes to replenish what you lost in sweat. No big deal, as most of us get way too much salt in the rest of our diets anyway, but it is worth noting in case you are one of the three people on Earth who doesn't over-salt everything.
As for the taste, it depends on what you're comparing it against. There's not a huge difference between well-filtered water (e.g. Aquafina) and distilled water (e.g. the grocery store jugs). There is, however, a huge difference between unfiltered or coarsely filtered water and distilled water. For example, to me, Arrowhead water tastes noticeably worse than more filtered brands, presumably because of the dissolved minerals. Other people prefer that taste. And there are many varieties that are somewhere in the middle. For example, Dasani uses filtration and then adds certain minerals back in. SmartWater distills the water and then adds salts back in. And so on. Everybody has their own preference, and as far as health goes, it makes little difference given that the vast majority of the minerals you consume come from the foods you eat rather than from the water you drink or cook foods in.
Re:Mod the summary funny (Score:4, Informative)
I used to think regular water tasted like nothing, then I tasted distilled water. Think flour but liquid.
ObTopic:Dumb parents are dumb. Nothing to see here, move along.
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You get plenty of those from food. Tap water is not an important source of minerals, save for iodine perhaps, unless you're on a water diet, that is.You get about half a gram of potassium from a single banana. Try adding the equivalent of that in a potassium salt to a glass of water and see how it tastes ;)
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There's a big debate among water purification vendors about this.
On the one hand, makers of non-RO (reverse osmosis [google.com]) systems say that you need minerals in water.
Vendors of reverse-osmosis or large solar distillers [google.com] reply that people have been drinking rain water (which doesn't have minerals) without adverse health effects, so you don't need minerals in water.
Re:Mod the summary funny (Score:5, Funny)
It Has Electrolytes! Is it what plants crave?
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In fact, yes. It was noted in some of the earliest writings on hydroponics that dirty water made plants grow better than clean filtered water.
Re:Mod the summary funny (Score:5, Insightful)
Distilled water is rather aggressive when it comes to dissolving minerals. Since it doesn't have any dissolved in it when you imbibe it, it just takes them from your body. It's basically an exaggeration of the difference between drinking water and isotonic beverages when you're exercising.
Re:Mod the summary funny (Score:5, Funny)
NO KEEP THE CREASES! (Score:5, Funny)
No the creases are good, they help scatter the mind control waves instead of reflecting a strong return signal, which will be picked up by the mind control satellites, then the Illuminati will know you're wearing a tinfoil hat and poison your water supply with mind-control nanites instead, or send the grays to abduct you and install an implant if you already run your water through an anti-nanite system.
So remember, creases GOOD, right angles and flat/curved surfaces BAD.
Re:Mod the summary funny (Score:5, Funny)
It's most likely the water chemistry. Most North American water systems are saturated with minerals and various biological agents. Now I know some scrotum employed by the water dept. is going broadcast his/her displeasure with my comments. I can hear it now ... "No ... umm... uhh... dats not tru. Ummm ... err... uh .... NO." Put a TDS meter under your kitchen tap and see for yourself. And that's just for starters.
I noticed that too. I first became aware of it, during the physical act of love...Yes, a profound sense of fatigue, a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I was able to interpret these feelings correctly. Loss of essence. I can assure you it has not recurred. Women sense my power, and they seek the life essence. I do not avoid women, ...but I do deny them my essence.
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The real issue is all the DHMO these kids are being exposed to.
http://www.dhmo.org/
Re:Mod the summary funny (Score:5, Informative)
That's obviously the joke.
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Living in Ontario, I heartily agree. I'll be however, that if you look at most of the schools you'll find one of a few things. Either they have new or recent construction and made airtight(trapping fumes). The buildings are full of toxic mold, which is pretty common around here(again probably renno'd and then made airtight). Or, you may have a school built on one of a variety unique places, like garbage dumps, or some type of toxic gas outlet-which isn't being vented properly. Again that's pretty damn
Re:Mod the summary funny (Score:5, Insightful)
Unfortunately it overshadows a real problem. I felt crippling anxiety in school for 10 years (dropped out when I was old enough) and it was a waste of a good childhood. There are real reasons kids can feel this way. It doesn't have to be excuses, even if that was the easy thing to blame my problems on.
Of course WiFi didn't exist back then so it wasn't that, but I can understand how kids would feel awful at school and fine at home.
School can be a very uncomfortable place to be in, and an almost impossible place to learn in.
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Re:Mod the summary funny (Score:5, Insightful)
School is bad, but better than the alternative. So rather than using its problems as a reason to destroy it, its problems should be addressed to improve it.
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Students aren't in any position to reform the system, so sabotage, by one means or another, is their only reasonable response. Many teachers seem to feel equally incapable, but they have a few other choices.
(It's unfair to expect every teacher to start a Summerhill, or John Woolman, or other alternative school. But they could change jobs. Given how poorly they are normally treated, I'm surprised that they don't all quit after their first year.)
But for children...just how to you propose that they should f
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
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Yeah, indeed you don't get a difference (and practical implications for everybody) between "someone" and "large enough part of the society"...
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[blockquote]Why are you convinced that schooling is the only way that someone can obtain an education?[/quote]
Maybe you're being intentionally obtuse, but I'll reply anyway. He's not saying that "someone" can't be educated another way, it's just that all those other ways also generate a large number of completely uneducated people that you don't get by the current system.
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
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Because unguided independent study by an uneducated person doesn't work for the overwhelming majority of people.
True, and this is where family members (immediate or extended), friends, clergy, and others can help a child learn the self-direction and discipline to learn on his own. Do you really think the best way to raise a child is by bussing him to some dreary warehouse where he'll be placed under the arbitrary authority of some adult stranger for 8 hours a day? Please.
You should check out this book. The author (an award-winning elementary school teacher who has since renounced compulsory schooling) has put
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Yes, growing up is an excellent alternative, which government schooling tries to retard as much as possible. They reward docility, and penalize initiative and independence.
From my niece's point of view, as 4th grade teacher (I keep thinking she teaches 5th, where they seem to less animal AND less human:
docility - mistaking discipline for docility is wrong.
penalizing initiative - well, in 4th grade, initiative is usually going to interfere with class discipline, but offering to get the water for painting cla
Re:Mod the summary funny (Score:5, Insightful)
Knowing what I know now, I can see all kinds of ways that I could have put that time to better use
Had you spent your time in Information Technology 101 class better, you'd have know you don't need to sign or initial posts on message boards when your name is clearly displayed at the top.
But hey, we'll let it slide ... no matter how much it irritates the fuck out of us.
Re:Mod the summary funny (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Mod the summary funny (Score:4, Funny)
How about Aspergers, the medical condition whereby you are a complete cunt to everyone you meet.
Or ADHD, attention deficit whatnot Facebook shiny bewbs what-was-I-saying ? That's always good for discussion, until you lose interest in explaining it to people.
You could try Tourettes, that even allows you to swear at your coworkers and bosses, and be congratulated for being a brave person.
There's plenty of "medical" conditions for people who are allergic to work.
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Re:Mod the summary funny (Score:5, Informative)
I was fine all throughout primary and secondary school, but since coming to college I've noticed that I feel physically sick in the lectures, it was enough to make me stop attending lectures almost entirely (maybe I'll do better next year).
Could have been the lighting.
Some people are extremely sensitive to (C)CFLs, especially if they have a low CRI or a cold colour temperature. One of the lecture halls at college kept giving me headaches when I attended in the evening; then again, I knew it was the ceiling lamps, because I've had such issues in a couple of other CFL-lit areas in the past.
Re:Mod the summary funny (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Mod the summary funny (Score:5, Funny)
"Yes Mom. I know I haven't been going to the lectures; I feel physically sick in them. No mom, I didn't have a problem in high school. I think it must be the low oxygen levels in the large lecture halls. Maybe I'm really sensitive to flickering florescent lighting. Oh hi Dad. You don't think so? No I totally swear it's NOT a hangover! Really, my afternoon classes are just fine. I know what it sounds like, but college isn't as fun as back in your day. Yes I know its definitely not as fun for you when you send in the tuition check either, youve told me only about fifty times. What? can't hear you. oh by, my bros are coming over and we're gonna go down to the row and....review multi-phase fluid mechanics. bye, yes I'm sure it will pass mom. tell dad I need a bit more money again. Calculator broke twice."
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It is not purely physical, it is psychosomatic. You were the best, academically, in grade school and high school. You were smarter and more gifted than your peers were, and so you could control and anticipate any situation, within reason, which was thrown at you. You felt the security of your parents behind your back, their resolute hands on your shoulders, their encouragement being the electromagnetic force in the
Re:Mod the summary funny (Score:5, Insightful)
"I think that on the off-chance the kids aren't faking it (and really, who hasn't done it at some time in their youth) their parents are doing them a disservice by simply trying to blame it on WiFi."
I am surprised that the principals of the schools didn't rule things out by themselves. Start by polling the STUDENTS (specifically NOT the parents) while the Wi-Fi is up and running, then simply shut it off for a month and repeat the poll. Do the students feel better? Do they miss the Wi-Fi? Does school still suck? Are their parents full of shit?
And what about Wi-Fi in the home environment? Was that taken into account? None of these households use wireless? I find that hard to believe.
I get the feeling there is some underlying factor to the debate...like a paranoid mother that got the PTA all worked up, or something to that effect.
Re:Mod the summary funny (Score:5, Funny)
In 5th grade, I always felt sick during math class, which was taught by a teacher that I really didn't like.
In my defense, their understanding of mathematics would have made any thinking person ill :-D.
Spectral evidence is irrefutable! (Score:3, Interesting)
Wi-Fi is the obvious culprit. The spectral evidence is clear and this apparently isn't the first time it's caused problems in children...
http://www.salemweb.com/memorial/chronology.shtml [salemweb.com]
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Yeah, I meant it as more of a witch than a troll, really. Perhaps "see if the school's routers will float in water" might have been a bit more obvious... I went for the more subtle approach, but apparently some moderators take everything at face value! ;)
Re:Mod the summary funny (Score:5, Informative)
As for wifi, that should be easy to test -- do the kids get sick in malls? Somehow I doubt it, but lots of stores use wifi. If the kids don't feel the same in the mall (except perhaps when walking withing 50' of a "Body Shop" store's stench), then it's not likely wifi.
Yeah... (Score:5, Interesting)
because stress NEVER causes any of those symptoms...
Re:NO: nothing... (except possible pheromones) (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't know.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Maybe kids don't like being in school? I found myself more active and alert when at home as opoposed to school when I was attending.
WiFi at home? (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't people in Canada have WiFi at home? Surely if the illness was WiFi related they'd be suffering at home, in cities, on planes, or any other populated place?
Re:WiFi at home? (Burden of Proof) (Score:5, Insightful)
And people wonder why education gets worse. These damn parents are so sue happy, they just attack attack attack the schools every damn opportunity that presents itself. So the schools become so hamstrung in bureaucratic idiocy that they are afraid to do anything because some snot-nose little johnny's parents might sue.
This. Two things. Taking personal responsibility and the scientific method. The sooner society actually adopts these two solid mentalities, the better off we all will be. Until then this world will continue to be run amok by victimized-its-not-my-fault-blame-the-world-can-i-get-some-money-too asshats.
End rant.
Re:WiFi at home? (Score:5, Funny)
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Take three of the schools. In school 1, have an IT guy totally turn off the WiFi without telling anyone. In school 2, have the same IT guy say that he's turning off the WiFi, but have it go black and broadcast just as much as usual. In school 3, blanket the parents with information that the WiFi is being shut off, then don't change a thing. Take a look at what effects this has on student / parent complaints.
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Agreed. The rf spectrum is at full capacity and signals at every frequency are being constantly broadcast. WiFi only represents a fraction of this and it is ridiculous to link the symptoms of these children to it. It might be interesting to build a Faraday cage around the schools and see if symptoms go away.
Commercial FM broadcast signals are usually the worse [ezinearticles.com].
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I know what you mean since I've been to 3/5 of the mentioned places, but for anyone who hasn't been there "undeveloped" is not really the right word... they're fairly typical lower-class suburban/sorta-rural areas. "Undeveloped" implies something like a third-world country... and while there are places in Canada that resemble that, lower-class areas of south-central Ontario don't really fit that description :)
It's Black Mold (Score:5, Interesting)
I'll bet dollars to doughnuts it's a mold problem in the school. My guess is stachybotrys. Look It up, the symptoms match perfectly.
Re:It's Black Mold (Score:5, Insightful)
Mold my butt. If the kids are getting sick from radio waves, take away their cell phones. That'll cure'm quick!
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Don't forget about modulated electromagnetic fields produced by headphones of any portable audio player! Basically inside of the skull!!
Close to hippocampus, too - a part of brain crucial in long-term memory!
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Mold my butt. If the kids are getting sick from radio waves, take away their cell phones. That'll cure'm quick!
No shit. Have a tech bring a spectrum analyzer in and end the discussion once and for all. Odds are, they're getting a hell of a lot more exposure to ionizing radiation from the cell phones they have jammed into the sides of their pretty little heads that from some roof-mounted WAP that's fifty or sixty feet away.
... not because they're feeling ill, they'll get over that, but because they're being raised by morons.
I feel sorry for the kids, I really do
Re:It's Black Mold (Score:5, Funny)
No amount of telling the girls not to do it stopped them, so one day they brought the girls into the bathroom in small groups and the janitor says "let me show you how hard it is to clean lipstick off mirrors" and then promptly sticks a mop into one of the toilets, takes it out dripping wet, and then proceeds to scrub the mirrors with the toilet-water.
After that day, the girls never kissed the mirrors again.
Re:It's Black Mold (Score:5, Insightful)
If that were the case, the teachers and staff - who are exposed a lot more - would be getting symptoms too.
Here's a really easy test: Turn off all the wireless routers in the building and keep it a secret from the children and parents as best you can.
$5 says nothing will change.
=Smidge=
Re:It's Black Mold (Score:5, Funny)
In this case, I'd say do it the other way around. Tell them the wifi is off and actually turn them off, but put some transmitters sending white noise on the frequencies they were using.
If their "disease" can tell the difference between white noise and encoded transmissions, put them to work at the Canadian equivalent of the NSA.
Re:It's Black Mold (Score:5, Funny)
put them to work at the Canadian equivalent of the NSA.
The NS, eh?
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Wireless routers aren't wireless... they have an Ethernet and power cable connected to them. (it's the signal they produce that's wireless)
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Both when I was in college and now at my work place, there's externally mounted Cisco devices with high gain antennas mounted to the walls.
This is seriously bad medical House, M.D. style logic, but, there's a thin veneer of plausibility that if you drill holes into a wall full of black mold, the mold may be getting out through those holes.
I bet there aren't many buildings which are bad enough to have walls full of black mold, yet are airtight enough so that drilling a few extra holes into the interior walls will make any big difference in the amount of spores getting into the breathing air. Note that ventilation and wind will cause a pressure difference that will move air through the walls, it's only a matter of how much, because there are always holes and cracks in any regular house wall.
Re:It's Black Mold (Score:5, Insightful)
No it isn't. The difference is in whether x is a real thing or not.
Hmmm.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Could there be any other explanation? Uh, well of course. Schools are hotbeds of spreading sickness, this is nothing new. For this to really mean something, how about they look at places that have a lot of wifi going on without all the germ spreading. Maybe they could look at dense urban areas that have a lot of wifi yet everyone lives in their own apartment and aren't picking their nose and then getting a drink from the water fountain.
School boards are so.... Yea.
Re:Hmmm.... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Hmmm.... (Score:4, Interesting)
Also, food allergies seem to be a symptom of lack of breastfeeding and using formula instead. Obviously, virtually everybody breastfeeds in third world countries.
It's not obvious at all that everyone breastfeeds in third world countries. In fact, efforts such as the Nestle boycott [wikimedia.org] came about precisely because of companies successfully pushing the use of infant formula in developing countries.
I have a simpler explanation for the lack of food allergies in developing countries. In places where even normal people have trouble procuring adequate nutrition, children who have fatal allergies tend to die quickly. That's why you never encounter severe allergies in developing countries -- the ones who were born with them are already dead.
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Chris Rock had a better one - in third world countries, you don't see anyone with allergies because there ain't shit to be allergic to. It's all REAL FOOD instead of processed chemical crap and HFCS.
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I am living in Barrie Ontario right now and I'm telling you Yuppies are the last thing you are going to see around here...
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...and you are one of them, with your FUD about schools being hotbeds of sickness and filthy lucre.
Wow, you're serious. I worked in a school for four years. Never have I contracted more passing illnesses in my life. I have a strong immune system and am in relatively good shape for my age. Maybe the FUD you infer is that of your perception. I'm simply stating facts. Schools are places where germs get spread. Just like airports, hospitals, and other places where a lot of people congregate. Get off the conspiracy wagon and look at a post objectively for once.
For the record, I follow George Carlin's advice
Re:Hmmm.... (Score:5, Informative)
Yep, a lot of factors come together to make schools a great place for spreading germs:
1) You are dealing with kids who tend to get sick more often anyhow. This is in part because their immune systems are still developing, and in part because they do not take many of the hygiene steps that most adults do (like not putting everything in your mouth).
2) It's lots of people spending a lot of time in close proximity with one another. There are more than a few illnesses that don't live for long outside of a body, so some distance goes a long ways to stopping it. You don't get that in school, kids are packed in pretty good.
3) You shuffle and mix people around. While most of the time is spent in close proximity in class, you then mix it up at recess, at lunch, in different classes (for the older grades) and so on. So things don't stay contained to one subgroup, they have the chance to move.
4) Cleaning procedures are not that good. There is neither the time nor the money to do a through cleaning of everything in school every day, especially given all the potential surfaces where germs can hide. As such schools are just not kept as clean as some other environments that are similar (like a hospital).
5) Nearly everything is shared. At home and at work my computer, my desk, etc are all mine, reserved for my exclusive use. At school that is rarely true. Desks are often first come, first serve, computers are in labs used by all and so on. The more people that use something, the more chances it can be used as an infection vector.
6) Absence is discouraged. Workplaces often tell sick people to get out, even if they want to come to work. They want things kept healthy, rather than perfect attendance. Schools heavily pressure attendance, and it can be a real pain to miss things and have to play catchup. As such kids may end up going to school when they are a bit sick, but seem ok, whereas an adult might choose (or be forced) to stay home. Also with cuts to subs teachers practically have to be dying before they can miss a day. Well sometimes "a little sick" means "Highly contagious but without frank symptoms."
Basically schools are just ideal places for spreading disease. Now this isn't all bad, kids need to be exposed to disease for their immune systems to develop and strengthen. However it also means that you have to accept that they will be sick a lot more than you probably will be.
GODDAMN IPHONES??? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm at school i am sick (Score:4, Insightful)
The symptoms, which also include memory loss, trouble concentrating, skin rashes, hyperactivity, night sweats and insomnia
Thats funny I read about this as a kid.
'I cannot go to school today, ' Said little Peggy Ann McKay. 'I have the measles and the mumps, A gash, a rash and purple bumps. My mouth is wet, my throat is dry, I'm going blind in my right eye. My tonsils are as big as rocks, I've counted sixteen chicken pox And there's one more-that's seventeen, And don't you think my face looks green? My leg is cut-my eyes are blue- It might be instamatic flu. I cough and sneeze and gasp and choke, I'm sure that my left leg is broke- My hip hurts when I move my chin, My belly button's caving in, My back is wrenched, my ankle's sprained, My 'pendix pains each time it rains. My nose is cold, my toes are numb. I have a sliver in my thumb. My neck is stiff, my voice is weak, I hardly whisper when I speak. My tongue is filling up my mouth, I think my hair is falling out. My elbow's bent, my spine ain't straight, My temperature is one-o-eight. My brain is shrunk, I cannot hear, There is a hole inside my ear. I have a hangnail, and my heart is-what? What's that? What's that you say? You say today is...Saturday? G'bye, I'm going out to play! ' Shel Silverstein
Re:I'm at school i am sick (Score:5, Funny)
This is an outrage and I will not tolerate such lies sir!
Ridiculous (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Ridiculous (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe the kids are munching on Chinese routers while swimming in a contaminated pool? But seriously though, those all sound like classic symptoms of public school in general. I suffered most of them myself when I was in school, and the 802.11 standard wasn't published until about the time I started high school, and I didn't start to think of it as commonplace until a actually fairly recently (like, last 5-6 years or so). We certainly didn't have any APs in my school.
It's probably mold... or the soul-crushing depression of academic slavery.
Re:Ridiculous (Score:5, Funny)
Hey man! No way!
It's the radio waves man!
They're trying to control your mind man!
But like, they screwed up man!
They tweaked the flux capacitors too high and shit man!
And now they are making the kids sick instead of washing their brains out man!
(please read in the voice of Cheech)
Re:Ridiculous (Score:5, Funny)
Yes (Score:5, Insightful)
"Besides Wi-Fi signals, could there possibly be any other logical explanation for kids having more symptoms of illness on school days than at home on weekends or in the summer?"
Yes, it is called "Believing shit that isn't real." Our minds can have powerful effects on our bodies and in particular on how we feel, since ultimately the mind is what does the feeling. So people believe that something causes a given set of symptoms, thus they experience those symptoms.
Happens all the time with the WiFi types. People have been up on the evils of "radiation" for a long time, WiFi is just their newest target.
Personally what I think the school needs to do is this: Tell people "Ok, for the next two weeks we are shutting down WiFi, you let us know if you get any better." However don't actually shut it off. Have the APs stop broadcasting SIDs and accepting connections, but leave the radios broadcasting at full power. Then after that say "Ok we are turning back on now, in a test mode, no data for two weeks. tell us if you feel worse." At this point shut the APs down completely.
At the end, when people say that during the "off" time they were fine and during the "on" time the problems came back, you get to reveal the test results and say STFU.
Seriously, if there is something to this WiFi thing how come we can't get any laboratory results on it? The answer to that is because there is nothing to it, it is all in the heads of the people who allegedly have the problems.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The only problem with that scenario is if they still reported feeling ill. Then if you admit that the WiFi was on, the response will be "Aha, that proves it was the WiFi!", fully accepted even with the logical inconsistencies.
When all along it was a mold problem, or some other. Of course the next week the evil WiFi will be removed, the symptoms continue and a new RF culprit is put in the crosshairs.
I think there should be a mainstream term for how people react to situations like this, junk science is too
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
At the end, when people say that during the "off" time they were fine and during the "on" time the problems came back, you get to reveal the test results and say STFU.
Seriously, if there is something to this WiFi thing how come we can't get any laboratory results on it? The answer to that is because there is nothing to it, it is all in the heads of the people who allegedly have the problems.
The only reason nobody's done this is because they don't fancy the political implications of publicly proving beyond any shadow of a doubt that the people complaining are neurotic fools. Even if you're not in a position where your job is elected regularly, the chances are you ultimately report to someone whose job is up for re-election.
Predictable (Score:5, Insightful)
How much do you want to bet that these concerned parents are credulous proponents of alternative medicine?
I can imagine their rapt attention at reading how much danger their kids are in, and they trust someone with MD after their name (as if it's not a diploma mill degree anyway) more than an engineer or physicist.
This whole subject is dominated by that folk etymology mentality where something that sounds smart and appeals to an aging housewife's intuition gets spread around at bridge games and finds its way into Reader's Digest or whatever checkout aisle trash they flip through on the toilet these days.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
also it cuts down on cabling . Wifi can be great for convenience. Plus teacher and students devices. Why not?
Whats wrong with the children? (Score:5, Insightful)
My guess, it's the parents. The parents want the children to be sick and press/force it upon the children to be sick. Its a common incident in lawsuits.
Parent: "Its ok, just tell me that your getting sick from the stuff at school. You don't need to hide it, just tell me."
Child: "But I'm fine, nothings wrong."
Parent: "Please, you shouldn't bottle these things up. Just tell me that its making you sick and I'll make it stop. Now please, don't hide these things from me."
Child: "But there really isn't anything wrong."
Parent: "Now we've talked about this, you don't need to keep secrets from me. Just tell me its making you sick because I know it is. So just be honest and go ahead and tell me its making you sick and then we can go have ice cream. And then we can talk to everyone about this because they will like to hear what you have to say."
Child after hearing they will get a reward and lots of positive attention for agreeing to claim it makes them sick: "Yes mommy, it makes me feel really ill and sick. Can we have that ice cream now?"
Keep instilling that its making them sick after a while mind over matter will happen and you'll have a child with a minor form of hypochondria that will claim its the school since they are getting rewards for it and lots of positive attention, the two things most children want it abundance.
Or, perhaps the other way around (Score:4, Insightful)
Kids don't want to go to school. I know I didn't when I was a kid and I was even good at school. I was always happy for an excuse to stay home from school. Didn't often work for me, since mom was a teacher and fairly clever, but still.
So kid doesn't want to go to school says "But mom, I feel sick!" and make up some symptoms. Mom says ok and lets them stay home. Mom notices that these symptoms only happen when the kid has been going to school. Never on the weekend, never during summer. Mom goes and looks them up online, rather than asking a doctor, and finds the anti-WiFi nutters. She says "Oh my god, this must be it!" The kid, of course, latches on to it as it means less time in school.
I'm sure it is a combination of these two as well as others (like kids who legitimately feel like crap in school because of stress). It all adds up to a manufactured panic about WiFi.
Hell maybe I should get in on this! In recent years, as WiFi has rolled out all over work, I've had less energy than I used to. I am tired easier, and seem to just be over all a bit slower than I was. Not drastic, but noticeable. Must be the WiFi... ...
or maybe the fact that I'm 30, and have gained weight. Nah, couldn't be that, must be the WiFi.
Re:Whats wrong with the children? (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't have the references handy and i can't be bothered looking them up. But a few high profile cases have turned out to be total BS because one partner assumed, led the child on, and got the courts rolling on it. However there would be physical trauma related to the accusations. There was none. It never happened.
Sick School Syndrome? (Score:4, Insightful)
They banned WiFi on a floor of my last workplace (Score:5, Interesting)
At home they must all use corded phones too... (Score:4, Insightful)
...otherwise many of their cordless phones would be emitting the same "wifi" signals that wireless routers do.
Perhaps the children are suffering from stress caused by video game, Internet, phone, and texting withdrawals at school.
Secret origin story. (Score:5, Funny)
Via IRC :
Exposed to deadly WiFi radiation, young Peter Parker finds himself
with all the powers of a wireless network device... and all the problems of a
high school student!
Must... route... packets... Gwen Stacy's life... in balance... musn't
let Aunt May's Facebook page... go down.... ARGHHH!
Belief is stronger than facts (Score:3, Interesting)
A lot of people believe that EM spectrum radiation is harmful in many different ways.
We can either fight them on every front they raise or we can agree with them that there MIGHT be such a danger. People have believed this since the introduction of electricity, so thinking that someone we are going to convince these people they are wrong just isn't going to happen. It has nothing to do with ignorance or some peculiar regligious belief - it is just a belief in something beyond current knowledge.
Besides, how the heck does anyone really know what we don't know yet? The real answer is nobody knows. It is unlikley, even incredibly unlikely, but there is no way to convince people that it couldn't be happening.
We aren't talking about WiFi routers alone. Every source of EM radiation is suspect, down to the level of detectability. If it can be detected, then it is possible that it is having some kind of unknown effect. Probable? No. But just barely possible. And it doesn't necessarily have to affect everyone, just those that are somehow sensitive.
What needs to be understood is until this is dealt with on a human (not just scientific probability) level, it is going to continue to prevent construction of EM-emitting objects. Like power transmission lines. And cell towers. And there will be complaints about every device like a WiFi router.
How would such proof be managed? I don't know. But I do know that fighting individual battles over Wifi routers, cell towers, radio stations, power lines and every other sort of EM-emitting device is pointless. The non-believing majority will lose out to the minority that believes. As Mr. Obama said just recently, we are a country of religious freedom and it would be wrong to unfairly oppress a religious minority that believes WiFi is harmful. At least without absolute proof that they are wrong.
Could be the water (Score:5, Interesting)
I can't speak for all schools, but my old middle school had horrible water. I actually did a side-by-side microscope comparison of fresh-from-the-tap to mudwater, and the school had more bacteria. Less sediment, but still more bacteria.
First time a teacher regretted me actually doing my homework.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
As a physician I would venture that not only caffeine but pretty much anything can produce those symptoms. That is why they're called "non specific symptoms". Of course this reminds me of the guy who claimed to be ill from signals coming from a cell phone tower, only to discover that the cell phone tower in question hadn't actually been turned on for the past 12 months...
Seriously, there are a lot of sick people. However sadly there are also people who claim to be sick in order to obtain a secondary benefit
Re:Turn off the wifi.. (Score:4, Insightful)
But to be a fair experiment, you'd have to conceal the fact that the wi-fi is turned off from the children. The reason for this is that the most likely cause of all the illness is children feigning it to get of school.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
wait till we turn the equipment on!
This has actually happened (IIRC some 10 years ago in Germany, but I can't find a reference on the web). A GSM base station was put up somewhere, and people immediately began to get sick (headaches, insomnia etc.). When people started demanding to remove it, it turned out that only the tower had been erected, but the radio equipment hadn't even been installed yet. That's the power of the mind...