Consumerist Says AT&T Site Won't Sell iPhone In NYC, Citing Network 420
cowp writes "A Consumerist tipster couldn't get AT&T's website to sell him an iPhone when he shopped using an NYC ZIP code, but could when he tried other cities' ZIPs. Consumerist asked an AT&T CSR and seems to have gotten confirmation that this is carrier policy: 'Yes, this is correct the phone is not offered to you because New York is not ready for the iPhone. You don't have enough towers to handle the phone.' Considering Apple's gadget is currently the most popular handset in the US, its exclusive carrier's inability/unwillingness to support the device in the country's largest market is pretty huge news. If this proves true, I'd expect curtains for AT&T's exclusivity deal when it comes up for renewal." If you're in NYC, can you confirm or deny this outlandish-sounding claim?
Updated 20091227 1:03 GMT by timothy: Headline, now corrected, inaccurately named Apple rather than AT&T. Mea culpa.
This has been an issue for quite awhile. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:This has been an issue for quite awhile. (Score:4, Insightful)
This from the most technological advanced country on the planet.....
AT&T happy to take customers money, not willing to spend millions for a working network.
Re:This has been an issue for quite awhile. (Score:5, Insightful)
This from the most technological advanced country on the planet.....
AT&T happy to take customers money, not willing to spend millions for a working network.
I didn't see any mention of Japan in TFA?
Re:This has been an issue for quite awhile. (Score:4, Insightful)
Insightful? You're an idiot. (Score:3, Insightful)
Says the man who repeats the mantra of the liberal, pinning all their problems on some abstract idea of a colaborative and archetypal villain named "the mass media". There is no collaboration amongst them, they are not trying to brainwash you, or anyone else, instead they are trying to appeal to you, to watch them. In this way, they are a reflection of you. When you understand that there are no super villain's, nobody cares about you, and it's extremely hard to organize a group to do ANYTHING in even the be
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Standards are standards and cheap readily available chips are a sound commercial decision. You will also notice however who many big Western companies use Motorola chips for instance.
What does that have to do with it? Or were you under the impression that Motorola was Japanese?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorolla [wikipedia.org]
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People tend to forget that NEED is the real motivation behind technological advances and implementation. Japan, for example, has a high need to handle transit, housing, and recreation within their limited space and with a high population density. Therefore, Japan's need has compelled them to implement technology to handle these limitations. Such examples can be seen in their train infrastructure or space efficient housing.
On the other hand, the United States’ need for the same technology is not as
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You must be referring to either Japan or South Korea, right?
Re:This has been an issue for quite awhile. (Score:4, Informative)
The same South Korea that took over two years to get the iPhone. And the same SK that still blocks any non-Korean approved unlocked phone from being used on their networks without paying a $300 "inspection" fee? And the same SK where the majority of domestic websites require Internet Explorer 6 (yes, 6) to function correctly?
For those of you who don't know, South Korea is not a technological paradise. We have fast broadband but that's about it.
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No, that would be the *other* South Korea
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...where the majority of domestic websites require Internet Explorer 6 (yes, 6) to function correctly?
Well, that seemed to be the case in the US until just recently too... ;-)
Re:This has been an issue for quite awhile. (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes, the South Korea that wanted strong (128-bit) encryption back when IE was the only browser worth mentioning, but 128-bit encryption couldn't be exported. They implemented their own encryption scheme as an ActiveX pugin, and open source browsers have been really slow about implementing a compatible form of that encryption system.
To me, that sounds like a country that was quite tech savvy, but got screwed by US politics.
Re:This has been an issue for quite awhile. (Score:4, Insightful)
The same South Korea that took over two years to get the iPhone. And the same SK that still blocks any non-Korean approved unlocked phone from being used on their networks without paying a $300 "inspection" fee? And the same SK where the majority of domestic websites require Internet Explorer 6 (yes, 6) to function correctly?
For those of you who don't know, South Korea is not a technological paradise. We have fast broadband but that's about it.
To be fair, the $300 inspection fee is for getting *any* device certified by the FCC-equivalent authority of Korea *for personal use*. To make sure that the device does't interfere with the government-authorized spectrum. You should blame (insert company name) for not doing the job for you, not the South Korean government. Hell, what kind of government authorize using non-certified devices in their soverign?
Additionally, I use IE8 and firefox, and I had zero hiccups using IE8, and nearly zero problem using Firefox except on-line gaming sites (which merely is a Windows game installer) and banks (which require so many addons). Everything else is fine.
Re:This has been an issue for quite awhile. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:This has been an issue for quite awhile. (Score:5, Funny)
Back in 2004, I quit my job and went on a roadtrip on steroids.
... because you wanted to have the opportunity to road rage and 'roid rage simultaneously?
Re:This has been an issue for quite awhile. (Score:4, Interesting)
How far they have fallen. I used to be die hard AT&T. Between 93-98 I had an old Nokia TDMA cell phone with a freaking brick on the back for a battery.
My talk time was like 3-4 fucking days. I forgot my charger one time on a trip and it lasted on standby and just a little bit of talking two weeks. I shit you not.
I was once out on a camping trip in the middle of nowhere (probably 20 miles away from the interstate) and I was the only person with a cell signal. Made calls and everything. People were dumbfounded that I was on my cell phone considering how far away I was.
2009.......
I am ready to strangle people with iPhones on AT&T. It is such a joke. From Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Salt Lake City, Phoenix, Houston, and New York, I talk to people with crappy sound, disconnects within about 3-4 minutes (90% of the time), and pure constant frustration trying to communicate with these people.
They still love the iPhone though.
What I have learned is two things.
1) How far you can fall in terms of customer satisfaction and real world coverage and performance. (Not flaming here, these are my direct observations).
2) How much shit people will put up with for a shiny iPhone.
P.S - The iPhone does not look that bad. Jailbroken and on TMobile or Verizon (hopefully soon because CDMA will finally be available) it might be pretty nice to work with.
Could be the phone... (Score:3, Insightful)
My phone will show 5 bars of reception but it will throw "no service" warnings when I try to make calls.
Not saying it isn't AT&T's fault but there is a highly non-zero chance the problem is with your phone instead. I've been an AT&T customer for over a decade (from back when they were AT&T Wireless before they became Cingular) so I'm pretty familiar with the good and bad about them. Whenever I've seen something like what you describe, a reboot of my phone has usually fixed the problem. I've also had cases where I couldn't get calls but other people with different phones could get calls standing
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Wrist rocket? Are you Iron Man?
Re:This has been an issue for quite awhile. (Score:4, Funny)
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Yeah, i got stung by an automated anti-fraud system when i tried to book a flight ticket (relatively large purchase), had to call up the card provider and explain that i really did want to go there..
Then when i arrived, my card again got suspended because i was using it out of my normal country, in the place i had just bought a ticket to and told them all about it. I then had to pay exorbitant phone charges to call them and explain again.
Re:This has been an issue for quite awhile. (Score:4, Interesting)
Bullshit.
I called Wells Fargo before my last cross-country trip - They immediately locked me from $2,000 daily limit to $200, I got stranded because I filled up for gas and then had not enough left for the rest of the day to cover my hotel expenses - I had to sleep in my car in the freezing cold in a fucking parking lot.
And when they said they raised it back up - they lied. They cut it down to $150.
Of course, as soon as I got back, I withdrew all of my money and made a very loud statement in the lobby to all of the customers present. I think two followed my suit.
You tell them you're going around the country, they'll lock your shit down so you don't make THEM off-balance. They're the ones playing dirty with your money. What, you ain't seen the bailout?
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If telling them I was going on vacation got them to not cut off my card I don't know what you did to piss off the gods of banking but it looks like the problem may ha
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I also call bullshit.
When I went from the US to Australia in 2002, all it took was one phone call to Wells Fargo (via an international toll-free number) to sort things out. After the initial lockout and re-enabling, I used that card in Australia, New Zealand, Thailand, and Italy without further issues.
I continued to use the account for another 4-5 years after deciding to stay on in Oz. Got WF to change my statement address to my place in Brisbane, and they even automatically sent me a replacement card a mon
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I agree with you. My response was to Khyber who said it was bullshit to tell the credit card company that you were travelling to circumvent them declining your card. Even so, a simple phone call would clear it up.
It is a good idea for various reasons to have a backup, and not have all the money you eat and survive with locked up into a single bank.
I agree for credit, but I dont agree for general banking. I have all my money in a single bank, including car and home insurance, stock investments as well as mortgage and line or credit. I've had nothing but outstanding service from them over the last 20 years, and for my reward I currently hav
Re:This has been an issue for quite awhile. (Score:4, Insightful)
This from the most technological advanced country on the planet.....
AT&T happy to take customers money, not willing to spend millions for a working network.
You forgot the sarcasm tag I'm hoping. The US is not the most technologically advanced country in North America let alone the planet. While AT&T was slowly rolling out 7.2, your neighbours to the North were rolling out 21Mbps HSDPA on the incumbent GSM carrier. While Verizon was busy coming up with clever ads to attack AT&T, Canadian CDMA carriers were getting ready to launch a coast to coast 21 Mbps HSDPA network and launch the iPhone 3GS on their network making the iPhone non-exclusive in Canada. A lot of technology that you take for granted every day was invented in Canada. The robotic arm used to construct the international space station was from Canada.
BTW. How is that LTE thing going for Verizon? Will we see come out before 2020?
Re:This has been an issue for quite awhile. (Score:4, Insightful)
WTF? Seriously? Why do Canadians always bring up that arm as if it is the greatest piece of technology ever invented when it is sitting next to a $10 billion Orbiter and a $100 billion space station, which are some of the greatest marvels of technology ever invented?
People really are dipshits with this "my country is more advanced than yours" idiocy. Advances in technology can only be compared with time, not locations. The rate of development of technology in the US is extremely high--but this doesn't mean that the technology is deployed there. Is a country like Japan more advanced than the US because it builds more hardware and software or is the US more advanced because it designs more? Or should we compare per capita?
I think it is a foolish thing to even worry about. Only nationalists would really care. I care about the technology, not who is the most 'advanced'.
The blue diode, the microprocessor, scramjets, the LHC--those are important. I don't give a shit which country gets the nationalistic props for being the most technologically advanced.
Re:This has been an issue for quite awhile. (Score:4, Insightful)
The rate of development of technology in the US is extremely high--but this doesn't mean that the technology is deployed there.
Therefore the country where it IS deployed is the more advanced. When I moved to the US from Europe I was amazed at how technologically backwards the place was considering the huge amount of tech development that goes on there. The amount and type of technology you encounter in everyday life is certainly far behind Europe and now living in Canada things are more advanced, but still not quite as much as Europe. Its true that some of the newest gadgets may get released in the US first but when it comes to applying technology to existing products (like the car) the US is surprisingly far behind.
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A real insult to a Canadian is to point out that almost 100% of Canada is north of Buffalo, New York...
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Really? Cause as a NYC resident, my Sprint service works just fine all over the city. I've never dropped a call here when above ground. Neither has my best friend on Verizon (we have the Pre and Droid, respectively). The latter actually switched back to Verizon only a month ago and ditched his iPhone because he couldn't take the crappy servi
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Spin (Score:5, Insightful)
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Not everybody outside of the tech world knows what the E55, Hero, or GW620 are.
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Everybody outside of the tech world knows what an iPhone is.
Not everybody outside of the tech world knows what the E55, Hero, or GW620 are.
True, but promisingly I've been seeing a lot of my non-tech friends carrying around new Android devices lately.
Re:Spin (Score:5, Informative)
People are wising up though. The Droid's marketing campaign just hasn't gotten people into VZW's doors, it has spurred interest in Android devices in general. I've talked with people who see the Droid, find it interesting, but prefer T-Mobile, and end up coming out with a Samsung Behold, a Motorola Cliq, or a MyTouch 3G. People on Sprint find that the Samsung Moment offers one of the fastest processors. The only carrier that has no current offering is AT&T, but supposedly they will be offering a Dell Android phone. AT&T also has the iPhone, so just business common sense says that Android devices will be second fiddle to AT&T's mainstay.
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Just to be a bit of a fanboy, but I got a Moment because it has an OLED screen. I was sick of my previous phone being unusable in sunlight. The slide out keyboard with primary number keys is also nice.
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You might notice that AT&T commercials never promote the iPhone. They always promote some other smart phone.
I'm sure they'll get into the Android game soon enough.
And I look forward to the 4G iPhone in June.
And Google's new phone.
Boy, 2010 should be an interesting year.
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But they know what a Crackberry is.
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That's global smartphone market share. Show a graph with global market share of ALL wireless handsets, not just smartphones.
Re:Spin (Score:5, Informative)
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Pretty good for 'ol Slashdot. He's within an order of magnitude.
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That chart is rubbish. They've grouped all the iPhones into one model, yet all the other phone makes are split up. Looks like Apple paid Nielson to do some fiddling.....
Re:Spin (Score:5, Insightful)
It says "iPhone 3G," one specific model of the iPhone. The other phones and their models, however, are grouped together. See the parenthesis?
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I mean, they clumped the iPhone 3G 8GB with the iPhone 3
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And where do you get that conclusion? Given that the 3GS was released midway through the period, and the 3G was MUCH more popular than the original (no app store with the original, as well as - of course - 3G), it's entirely plausible that the top phone on that chart is indeed the iPhone 3G.
But the overall point is well-taken - while the iPhone may be a popular device, it's by no means #1 given the existing base of Windows Mobile, Blackberry, and Other. Yet.
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Why? This is about tower congestion, which has been overwhelmingly caused by data traffic. An iPhone can easily use the same data traffic in a minute loading a couple web pages that a dumbphone user consumes in a month.
There's a reason smartphones are considered separately from "traditional" handsets - they function very differently, and are used very differently. Not all problems, issues, or marketshare battles make sense across the two groups.
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<foot
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Assuming the figures are correct, the link in the summary [gizmodo.com] states that the top four have more than 2% each and the iPhone is #1. I think that qualifies as "the most popular," even if it doesn't have a majority on marketshare.
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No problems last month (Score:3, Interesting)
I live in NYC under a 114xx zip code and had no problems buying one in person at an ATT store. I bought it the weekend after Thanksgiving so it was about a month ago. Maybe they changed it since then.
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I live in NYC under a 114xx zip code and had no problems buying one in person at an ATT store. I bought it the weekend after Thanksgiving so it was about a month ago. Maybe they changed it since then.
Sounds like you're in Queens or the Bronx. Maybe the network coverage in insufficient in Manhattan only (maybe over saturated? though I'm not sure how cell towers work)
Other reasons? (Score:2)
Are you sure the REAL reason isn't that New Yorkers are just not cool enough? That east coast vibe severely damps down on the cool, ya know.
I'm a little confused here... (Score:3, Funny)
What are the exact implications of the iPhone's failure to make it there (NY) as opposed to making it anywhere else?
Re:I'm a little confused here... (Score:4, Funny)
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So... what you are saying... (Score:2)
...is that it is all up to New York, New York?
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Fix the headline? (Score:4, Informative)
Summary makes it clear it's AT&T that isn't selling the iPhone in New York City. Headline says it's Apple, who last time I checked have iPhones for sale in their New York City stores. :)
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Re:Fix the headline? (Score:5, Informative)
I work, literally, right in Times Square... (Score:3, Insightful)
Cellular Nazi says: (Score:4, Funny)
No iPhone for You!
This is exactly why I have an iPhone (Score:5, Insightful)
Not because it's the best phone available, which it might or might not be depending on who you ask, but because there's a guy in Cupertino with a black turtleneck, a borrowed liver, and a really shitty attitude who owns the exact same phone I do, and who has the power to make it suck less.
Even if he has to stare down AT&T to do it.
What other phone manufacturer can go to bat for their customers like that?
Re:This is exactly why I have an iPhone (Score:5, Insightful)
Yup. I'm sure this guy is going to bat for me [theregister.co.uk].
That's right.
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Has Mr Jobs managed to stare down ATT into improving their network ?
Comment removed (Score:3, Interesting)
Don't bash AT&T (Score:5, Insightful)
This is responsible -- they don't have enough towers, and they shouldn't be selling any more phones until they build more capacity.
It's not any different than not selling additional seats on an airplane that's already full. No one would blame an airline for not overbooking. I don't think we should blame AT&T for doing the right thing.
As a New Yorker with an iPhone, I hope Apple follows suit and stops selling iPhones to New Yorkers until the network is robust enough to provide decent service.
Failing that, I think they should waive early termination fees for NYC users.
Re:Don't bash AT&T (Score:5, Insightful)
The phone is surprisingly popular, and no one has a crystal ball.
For most products, there's some sort of limit on how much you can sell, that's connected to how many of them you make.
Southwest can only fly so many people to a certain destination, a bakery can only sell so many cupcakes, a barber can only take so many appointments, a restaurant only has so many tables, etc.
Sometimes popular products and services sell out -- it's a very common situation in business.
There is a limit on the number of iPhones the AT&T network can support. The exact number is fuzzy, but there's no doubt that they've gone beyond it here in NYC. They should just say that they're sold out until they grow the network.
Again, it's not any different than a restaurant declining to take a reservation because they're full. Respectable businesses do this all the time. It's perfectly reasonable.
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it's not any different than a restaurant declining to take a reservation because they're full. Respectable businesses do this all the time. It's perfectly reasonable.
If AT&T is either unwilling or unable to provide network support to keep up with consumer demand for the iPhone, then their exclusivity deal should be nullified. I'm surprised the contract they signed with Apple does not include some provisions for dealing with this sort of situation.
This is exactly why exclusivity deals are bad. People in NY are now stuck with either buying an iPhone and having shitty service or not buying an iPhone.
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I agree that it is responsible, to not sell more of something when you can not support the customers. But AT&T simply has not kept up with their network while making tons of money off the iPhone. After working for several Telecoms and Cable companies I will tell you infrastructure costs are not as high as they like you to think "if it is built well the first time" but just like roads they build for today and throw more at it later, then they cry cause it cost so much later, while engineers pull their ha
Money well spent (Score:3, Insightful)
AT&T's choices:
Did they choose wisely? I think not.
A Few Good Men (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe that CSR just watched A Few Good Men [entertonement.com].
AT&T: You want coverage?
Consumerist: I think I have the towers.
AT&T: You want coverage?
Consumerist: I want the iPhone!
AT&T: You can't handle the iPhone!!
I live in NYC (Score:3)
Weird. I live in Manhattan and lots of people have iPhones.
Re:I live in NYC (Score:4, Funny)
My prediction. (Score:3, Interesting)
In late January, when every pundit expects an Apple Tablet rollout, what will be rolled out is another Apple phone - perhaps not called an iPhone - which is not tied to the AT&T network.
It's about fraud prevention (Score:4, Informative)
Not all AT&T phone reps are equally versed in what's going on, as Consumerist later admits on their site. AT&T will sell you the iPhone in their stores throughout NYC. They won't sell you the phone online within NYC. Apparently this is because of fraudulent resales as people order the phones online, take delivery and then ship them overseas. Skipping out on the contracts in the process, as they never intended to honor them in the first place.
I wonder why NYC has more of a problem with this than other locations. Large transient international population I suppose...
I only take issue (Score:3, Insightful)
with the AT&T reps manner of presenting this, trying to make it sound as if the problems is the caller/potential customer's fault.
Its not that "you (the caller, or New York residents) doesn't have enough towers", its that "We (AT&T) don't have enough towers (in New York)"
My suggestion to the caller, would be to make their next question something along the lines of "So when will AT&T be putting up more towers then?" I mean heck, its not like they even have to build actual *towers* - there are skyscrapers all over the place to stick cells on top of or out the windows at lower floors.
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and even then its closest rivals are barely a tenth of a percentage point behind
Speaking of false, that's bullcrap. You could have at least tried a simple Google query for smart phone market share [google.com] before wasting keystrokes here.
Re:Most popular handset is false. (Score:5, Informative)
Nope. It's the most popular phone in the US based on units sold. 4% [mobilecrunch.com] of the market.
That's almost 10% better than the best BB. 75% better than the entire RAZR V3 line.
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Regardless of whether it is the top, or close to the top, it is indisputable that it's up there, and not providing the necessary service for it is simply inexcusable.
You insensitive clod! (Score:2)
is likely some small candybar phone with simple buttons and a basic display.
You had to call it a candy-bar... It's 1:30 AM here and it is raining outside.
Where the hell am I gonna get me a candy-bar at this our?
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Start nibbling on your phone?
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There's an app for that.
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Figures don't lie but liars figure. The iPhone is by far the most popular smartphone associated with Apple, I'm sure.
Re:AT&T's service is crap (Score:5, Interesting)
About 2 weeks later, I got this nice call from an AT&T droid who says he was asked by the FCC to look into this. After a few pleasantries, he suggested 1) Making sure the battery was charged (OK), 2) Turning off 3G (already done, don't have 3G here in the boonies) and getting closer to the tower. I explained that if I got any closer to the tower on the last dropped call, I'd have to marry it.
His final suggestion was to take it up with Apple, maybe I needed a new handset.
I suppose it's something of a start but AT&T isn't going to solve very much of the problem this way.
Re:AT&T's service is crap (Score:5, Interesting)
Go back to the FCC and resubmit your complaint. Obviously AT&T simply read you the script to meet the barest of "compliance" requirements...by sending you to some script reader in a call center. They won't do jack shit until the FCC requires them to. Or, you're able to find someone within the local ranks at ATT that are willing to listen to you, not just some corporate weenie.
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Re:AT&T's service is crap (Score:5, Informative)
"AT&T's service is crap"
correct.
BUT...
You could be standing under the tower and your phone not work.
Its called site geometry you actually could have a dead spot in certain areas that are very close to the tower and even in plain sight, including directly at the site.
Just because you see one tower, its not ONE cell site. Depending on the location and the needs for that are it could be upto 6 sites depending on the sectorization used at that location. Most are 3 at a minimum, 120 degree sectorization. As you move into the urban area, and to meet other coverage needs it can go down to about 60 degrees.
this applies to all RADIO systems, which cell phones are nothing more than radio systems.
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I was in an Apple store over Christmas and watched 3 different people come in and complain about reception on their iPhones. All 3 were given new phones without any hassel from the Apple store employees. You should at least try that and possibly get a new phone.
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That's not how Apple works. They don't stick the best technology in something; they make very good technology do amazing things. Very few of their products are fully decked out - iPod shuffle doesn't have controls, the Air only has 1 USB port, etc.
But each product does amazing things with what it has.
The next iPhone won't be some amalgamation of every cool technology out there, but rather a careful selection of a few choice technologies that will work together.
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Must be April 1, as there are more places to buy the iPhone in NY than in just about any other place.
Unless you're trying to buy one online via AT&T's site.
It's true (Score:3, Informative)
Try for yourself!
1. Go to http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/cell-phones/cell-phones.jsp [att.com]
2. If you're outside of NYC, you'll see "Showing 69 standard phones or devices" and the iPhones listed immediately below.
3. Change your zip code to 10101 by clicking Update next to your location in the upper-right corner.
4. Now notice that it says "Showing 65 standard phones or devices." The iPhones are nowhere to be f
Re:False (Score:4, Insightful)
Did you happen to try buying it online from the AT&T store? Because you would not have been able to. They aren't selling it.
The title was wrong, but the summary and story are both correct. It's getting bad if people can't even bother to read the whole summary.
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Oh wait, they do [nokiausa.com].
Re:iPhone vs everything else (Score:5, Informative)