Android 2.0 — Competition Against the iPhone and the Rest 347
GMGruman writes "Every few months, it seems, there is a new 'iPhone killer.' Android 2.0, in the guise of the Motorola Droid, is the latest such 'killer.' But what will it really take to beat or match the iPhone (single page), and does Android or any other mobile OS have the right stuff? There's a lot more to the answer than is usually discussed. This article takes a look at the strengths that may allow Droid and Android 2.0 to provide strong competition to devices like the iPhone and the Blackberry, as well as the obstacles it continues to face that could inhibit adoption."
What does "iPhone killer" even mean? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What does "iPhone killer" even mean? (Score:5, Insightful)
The biggest reason this will not be an iPod killer is that it is made by Motorola, a bloated bureaucratic mess of a company known for poor quality. The Razr was a disaster. How will they compete with more stylish Apple or more nimble LG?
Re:What does "iPhone killer" even mean? (Score:5, Insightful)
The Razr was a disaster.
Really? The Razr is commonly touted as Motorola's last great success. I knew several people who bought, and were happy with, the Razr, including my wife. I considered one, but decided that I'd rather keep the LG that randomly stops working. (I'm not a big fan of ubiquitous communication.)
To respond to your point more directly, Motorola are not competing by themselves. they're using a form factor that is proven (see Nokia devices for several examples.) Motorola are using an OS that has already seen modest success; an OS sharpened by a company (google) who strive for ubiquity. The Droid also has some components that the iPhone is missing.
As long as their implementation is sound, I see no reason why Verizon, Motorola and Google shouldn't enjoy profits from the Droid. They are entering an established market; each is an experienced competitor; and there are lots of us who have been shut out of the iPhone market because we are Verizon customers. (I've heard complaints, but frankly, I've had nothing but positive experience with the company.) Further, Verizon seems to be marketing this harder than Motorola or Google. I have modest respect for Verizon, and find it difficult to believe that they would allow Motorola to sully their name.
I believe that this phone will enjoy moderate success. It doesn't have the cachet of Apple, but it's entering a market with a good deal of potential. Besides, Motorola is getting hungry: They played a big part in defining the cell phone market, and they nearly died by failing to follow through with their earlier success. Motorola has lots to lose, and I think that they really want to get it right.
All that aside, I figure that it's an open platform. If Motorola really gets it wrong, within 3 months, I'll be able to update it with a more friendly platform. I've already told my wife that she's getting one, and finally, after 7 years with the same phone, I intend to buy a new phone.
Maybe you hate Motorola phones, but I'm really looking forward to the Droid. I hope that it lives up to my expectations.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The Droid also has some components that the iPhone is missing.
Let's just correct this, though I know it was in the news item to.
It's not "The Droid", it's "Motorola Sholes". The Droid name seem to be something Verizon will put into the names of their Android phones. Also on the HTC Eres if that was the name of that phone.
Also before it was released I was hoping for something special, atleast in the lines of HTCs Sense UI. But now it looks like it's a basic and standard Android 2.0 installation with nothing special in it (not necessary a bad thing.) So if we get some o
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
It's a bit of inconsistency on the part of Verizon, I think. They're marketing this particular phone as the "Droid" or sometimes "Motorola Droid" while the other Android devices they've got coming (so far a pair of HTC devices is all I've heard about) are marketed as "Droid Eris" and "Droid Passion." Sholes was the internal code name that Motorola used for the Droid during development, but even they are calling it "Droid by Motorola" on their site.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Man, that Razr V3 I got for free lasted me 3 years of rough handling, dropping in toilets, skipping across parking lots, the whole nine yards. It made great calls, and I could let it go a week without a charge and still make a call. Finally, the battery started only lasting a few hours, then a few minutes, but this is after three years of the worst possible treatment. And it still looked pretty good. I got the black finish and it was surprisingly sturdy.
I wasn't thrilled about the way it looked when I f
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
+1 I'm with you there. I'm still using my Razr V3 after at least one complete dunking (while off, thank goodness) and it's still going strong.
I haven't found batteries overly expensive though... In 3 years though, I've only replaced it once.
That said, I'm still seriously considering a Droid.
Re:What does "iPhone killer" even mean? (Score:4, Insightful)
Too bad Motorola had monkeys design the user interface and idiots write the software. Completely fucked up a superbly designed piece of hardware.
Re:What does "iPhone killer" even mean? (Score:4, Insightful)
Um, I believe the 'monkeys' you are referring to work for the major carriers in the US. Each of the carriers decided that the phone needed to be customized for their specific customers (maybe they've classified which kind of idiot signs up with them). This of course makes advertising the capabilities of the phone itself difficult (at least in the US) for Motorola, as the UI and even what features the phone had was totally different from carrier to carrier (other than, "You can dial a number on it").
Re:What does "iPhone killer" even mean? (Score:4, Interesting)
GP does get a key point: The software is key. Carriers (and freaking Verizon in particular) in the US simply refused to understand this. They build the network, while all the innovation is in the handsets and the software, but for some reason, US carriers seem to think they are the true innovators and handset providers are fluff. Now that Verizon has screwed up on handsets for three years straight, they finally realize that their strength is simply the network they build. Maybe they've been listening to their own adds. They're finally going to ship a modern phone, without screwing up the software first. Stupidity at Verizon may be going out of style.
Anyway, as said before on slashdot, Android vs iPhone is just like Windows vs Mac all over again. With Verizon on board, Motorola building 20 new Android phones next year, and 50 Android sets in the works around the world, Android is set to finally deliver on it's promise of unifying the software across a broad spectrum of handsets. There wont be any single iPhone killer, just as no single PC was ever a Mac killer. However, I see nothing that can stop Android from becoming the world's dominant smart phone OS.
The Motorola Droid isn't quite as exciting of a device as the Sony Xperia X10 [ghacks.net]. I suspect we'll keep seeing Android based "iPhone killers" plunk away until Adroid wins the race.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
That's the same thing they said about Plays4Sure.
No it isn't. Plays4Sure was a proprietary Microsoft format for Windows Media DRM. The PC is effectively an open standard that can be implemented by anyone. Android is effectively an open standard that can be implemented by anyone. The analogy of Android to the PC world is much more apt than the analogy to a Windows Media DRM scheme.
Hardware had issues too though (Score:5, Insightful)
I bought the original Razr when it just came into market. It was a great phone. Beautifully designed, sleek and stylish even by today's standards.
I had one for a few years also. It was everything everyone claims Apple products are - style with little substance.
As you noted, the software was ghastly. But frankly I had issues with the hardware alone as well.
The buttons, were the worst I ever had on the phone as far as being easy to type. I was always missing numbers with those damn slanted keys with hardly any feedback as to where you were.
But the worst sin, was making a flip phone with BUTTONS ON THE SIDE. This totally eliminated the advantage of the clamshell where you couldn't accidentally hit buttons. I hung up on people pulling the phone from my pocket and often slightly changed settings getting it out.
It did feel good in the hand when talking or just holding it but like I said they had issues with both hardware and software.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
This is especially true considering that the iPhone is essentially a single model with multiple revisions, whereas Android is an OS. The Android OS will almost certainly sell more than the iPhone device, but the ramifications aren't nearly as straightforward as comparing one device with more sales than another -- especially from a developer's perspective.
Re:What does "iPhone killer" even mean? (Score:5, Insightful)
I disagree.
Both Android and the iPhone OS are ultraportable computing platforms. The iPhone isn't really a phone per se, but a mobile computing device with phone functionality. Apple will even sell you one sans phone if you want it.
Successful competitors to the iPhone will be those that understand that the point is to make a better ultraportable computing platform, not necessarily a better phone. I think Google may be able to do that, but I don't think RIM can, and Microsoft's development team appears to be a circular firing squad.
As usual, competition is only good for end users, so I hope Android does well.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
"iPhone killer" means that everyone sees the writing on the wall - namely Apple is poised to dominate the smart phone market (and possibly the handheld gaming market as well as the general mobile electronics market, GPS for example) like it currently dominates the mp3 player market. It hasn't happened yet and may not happen but everyone is betting that it will given current competition, hence the search for the "iPhone killer".
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
As an end user I don't really care that much whatever my product is dominating the market or not, in this case third party titles affect things but beyond that no.
I guess I shouldn't go into the mp3 player market so I'll just leave it that there is plenty of alternatives which will be just as good or better as the iPod (except the touch maybe since that's more of a crippled iPhone which gives it multiple advantages not into the pmp-area.)
Poorly executed and planned text-writing to follow:
Anyway, _IF_ Apple
Re:What does "iPhone killer" even mean? (Score:5, Funny)
Not iPhone, but others may be at risk. (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't think it will be an iPhone killer. At best, it will slow Apple's growth to a significant degree. However, with it's exchange integration, etc, it could take a measurable chunk from Blackberry.
And, as a long-time Palm user, this will likely be the last nail in the coffin for Palm. I'd decided months ago that the replacement for my 700p was not likely to be another Palm, but nothing was really grabbing me. I was resigned to go to a crackberry. Now though, I may end up an early buyer of the Droid.
My wife will almost certainly get one, since she was on the edge of buying a GPS device.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm a very long time Palm user, and I have been hanging for the Pre to replace my aging Treo 680.
However, with the speculation that Australia is going to miss out in the near future, I'm tired waiting.
Giving serious consideration to the iPhone and hoping I can learn to live without a keyboard.
Would also be interested in Android, however the hardware choices are overwhelming (Motorola, HTC et al). At least with the Palm or Apple, you are only required to choose from one or two models.
Re: (Score:2)
hoping I can learn to live without a keyboard.
I use an openmoko with an on screen keyboard. I don't miss a dedicated keyboard with moving parts. My sons ipod has the same keyboard as the iphone. I find it easy to use and he taps out emails like a pro.
Re: (Score:2)
It's a shame though how many people who've never even given them a chance are already calling it dead. The OS on it, webOS, is an exceptionally nice mobile OS to use and develop for, once you wrap your head around the notion that it is
Re: (Score:2)
hoping I can learn to live without a keyboard.
Go for it, my experience of iPhone keyboards is that you are as fast as joe with his blackberry for a week, and rather frustrated, and then suddenly you learn to trust it, and you tap out emails at an enormous rate compared to the hardware ones.
Re: (Score:2)
Um, too much choice is bad? Really? You're going to go with that?
I did not say it was bad. I said it was overwhelming. In Australia there is no signifiicant opportunity to road-test these devices before investing in them, often on a multi-year contract with significant cost penalty for early departure.
With a small group of options, you can get a wide level of feedback from friends, colleagues and your own research. If you're more of a geek, or a power-user, it's often a case of pot-luck when you go after r
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't know if Android would take that large of a chunk out of Blackberry's user base. It will probably draw away Pearl users and small-businesses, but Blackberry's core market (medium to large enterprises) will probably stay on that particular platform. Exchange integration is great (for the 95% of companies that use it), but as far as I am aware, on Blackberry with BES and WinMo w/ SCCM have true central management capabilities that enterprises want.
As you put in your post, Android will probably have t
No Single Killer. (Score:5, Interesting)
I hope there's no single 'killer'. Diversity is a good thing, it gives choice and keeps competition driving things forward. It won't be too many years before pretty much all phones are smart phones, and there's a lot of room in the phone market for a lot of vendor's to exist and profit.
So here's to hoping we see a nice market share for iPhones's OS, Android, Maemo, WebOS, and Windows Mobile.
Other name for "Diversity" is "Fragmentation" (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I hope there's no single 'killer'. Diversity is a good thing
I also hope there's no single killer. Instead, I hope they band together, muttering and sulking, then wait outside when iPhone walks out of the clob at 2 AM, then gang up on him, drag him into a dark alley and do unspeakable things to iPhone.
Already preordered my Droid (Score:5, Interesting)
It comes down to carriers, and Verizon Wireless does have excellent coverage. I'm on an expired contract so I could have jumped to AT&T without any penalties, but the Droid has got what I've always wanted: a phone that's open enough to let me hack for fun, while also polished enough that I don't have to hack it just to make the basics work.
The fastest way to fail (Score:2, Insightful)
is to market yourself as a 'iPhone killer'
Re: (Score:2)
is to market yourself as a 'iPhone killer'
Which is very specifically what they seem to be doing with the Droid [youtube.com]. A list of more-or-less random things that the iPhone doesn't do, with no real attempt to explain why you might want to do these things, or concrete vision of how the Droid might enhance your life in a way the iPhone doesn't.
Admittedly, it's not as bad as T-Mobile's ad for the MyTouch 3G [youtube.com] (aka the HTC Magic), with its meaningless "100% you" slogan, which appears to add up to, erm, being able to change the wallpaper.
Why does Apple seem to be
Re:The fastest way to fail (Score:4, Interesting)
I think the Droid campaign has been brilliant so far, and has stirred up a lot of interest and buzz about the phone.
As a Pre owner, I wish Palm had done something like that instead of using the strange scary-lady ads that didn't do anything for anyone.
My bet is when the Droid is actually launched, you will see those ads showing what it can do that the iPhone can't and why it's cool.
What has me puzzled is why Nokia hasn't got any commercials out for it's N900. It runs a Debian Linux variant, and runs full flash right now, and it's hardware is superior to the Droids in some ways. Why they aren't shouting about it from the rooftops, I don't know.
Re: (Score:2)
What has me puzzled is why Nokia hasn't got any commercials out for it's N900.
No U.S. carrier partner is probably part of the reason. (That and the fact that U.S. carriers don't give a discount for bringing your own phone.) Or has that changed?
I'm a Mac -- And I'm a PC (Score:2)
Wouldn't their time be better spent showing off the product rather than badmouthing the competition?
Look who's talking. As SanDisk and Motorola dis Apple in their "iDon't" ad campaigns, Apple continues to dis Microsoft in the "Get a Mac" series. iDon't Care [youtube.com] examines the badmouthing on both sides.
Horrible Article (Score:5, Insightful)
I hate to say it, but it just made no sense and backed up almost none of the opinions it presented.
You can't kill the iphone by trying to copy it. You have to:
1) Find a way to steal it's best customers in a way it can't keep up with.
2) Wait for it to get big, fat, and lazy.
Just copying the leader may get you investment dollars, but it won't get you market share.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
History may prove me wrong, but for now I'll stick with my use of the word "COPY".
Re:Horrible Article (Score:5, Insightful)
The ability not to have to jump ship for the "latest and greatest" might be a huge feature of Android, especially if you are tied into a contract. While some phones will be carrier exclusive without a doubt, Android itself is cross-network. Android's power is not int he G1, Magic, Droid, Hero or any other phone but in the fact it can easily saturate the market better than any other platform currently offered. When even "dumb phones" can run the apps you have written for Android, it is going to reach more of the market than Apple's high-end exclusive offerings and make it easier than "jump through hoops to get it to run without using expensive data plans" problems that JavaME has.
it's the apps, stupid (Score:2)
This happened before, with Windows. Any platform that doesn't run the enormous legacy app base will have a hard time getting market share.
The situation is now even worse- there is an entity which controls the hardware (AT&T, not Apple!), far different from the free-for-all PC ecosystem.
One problem killing the iPhone... (Score:5, Insightful)
One problem killing the iPhone, is that most of the iPhone's weaknesses are one policy change away from disappearing.
Enough people want background apps? Well there they are.
Enough people want customizable lock screens? Alright, that's easy enough.
Enough people want shared file storage? There, done.
Enough people want post-hoc approval of apps, like Android? No problem, it'll save Apple time and money to boot.
Enough people want unsigned apps distributed outside the app store? Ok, here you go.
Enough people want Flash, or other browser plugins? Fine, Adobe has been clamoring to put Flash on iPhone since it's inception.
Enough people want root access? Fine, administration is their problem.
Apple keeps those measures of control because they help to protect their platform's image from incompetent or unscrupulous coders, and their negative impact on most users is relatively minor. If that balance ever shifts, either due to more competent coders (supposedly Flash 10.1 is heavily optimized) or more demanding users (with friends whose phones do some or all of the above), the rules can change in an instant.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
But by changing the rules they allow for the iPhone to become just another smartphone. That coupled with being on a single carrier isn't going to do much for their future.
Re:One problem killing the iPhone... (Score:4, Interesting)
Ok thats a downirght B.S. excuese right there. The majority of the flash files people would be going after/ watching/using would be from youtube.com or google.com or myspace.com for video which last time I checked had some of the top people in the world dealing with compression, codexes and flash players in the world. Saying Apple is trying to keep bad ugly un-useful flash apps from their users is like saying Apple isn't trying to not lose money from forcing people to only buy videos from their itunes store.
It has nothing to do with scary bad coders, it has everything to do with them keeping people from getting videos outside of what they control (itunes).
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Article already out of date (Score:3, Interesting)
Even Nokia is abandoning Symbian for maemo http://maemo.nokia.com/ [nokia.com]
Re:Article already out of date (Score:4, Interesting)
Trying to get a "dumb phone" in 5 years will be like trying to get a cell phone that doesn't do anything except make phone calls today. They pretty much all do sms, web surfing, mp3, java games, etc.
The phone is the network (Score:2)
Once all phones are available on all networks, you will be able to have a valid feature comparison. Until then, choices will always be a combination of (how great the phone is) + (how much the carrier sucks).
Re: (Score:2)
There is no true competition in phones. If you want an iPhone you must go AT&T, if you want Android you currently will go T-Mobile, and so on.
Seriously, stop being so damn myopic. Look around you and see all of the GSM carriers in other countries that are doing just fine with the iPhone and look at the happy iPhone users in the US not posting on the internet to complain about living in San Francisco on AT&T. The rest of the world gets it, SF sucks for AT&T service.
Well, of course (Score:2)
Every few months, it seems, there is a new 'iPhone killer.'
Well, duh. Every new product generates hype, and to trend-conscious techies, the most obvious hype is that it's the "killer" of whatever product is already trendy. And, as you may have noticed, most new products these days are cell phones.
But have you ever heard of the latest blivet killer actually killing off the blivet? You have not. Market shifts don't happen that way. This "killer" meme is content-free marketing noise.
Totally wrong on "Asian Dominance" (Score:3, Informative)
Why is the iPhone not dominant in the land they term "Asia"?
Well actually it is.
In Japan, the iPhone is now #1 in market share for smartphones.
In China, they actually don't sell it at all (which is why they say it doesn't register in "Asia") but they will be shortly as they have partnered with a Chinese company to sell the iPhone. We know there is demand there as there have always been a lot of unlocked iPhones heading into China. And it has one of the better handheld input mechanism for chinese characters I have seen.
Re:Totally wrong on "Asian Dominance" (Score:4, Informative)
Why is the iPhone not dominant in the land they term "Asia"?
In Japan, the iPhone is now #1 in market share for smartphones.
In China, they actually don't sell it at all
Don't you answer your own question? Japan isn't all of asia, it's a fucking small part of asia. And China probably sums up the situation in a large part of asia.
The thing is that Apple support for other parts the the USA is kinda crappy. We in Europe got the iPhone waaay after the US to.
It's not dominant there, doesn't matter why it's not, though yes, Apple probably got themselves to blame for the lack of success there. (The same goes for Europe, it has only been around for a short time here, if it had been around for as long as it has in the US it would have an even bigger market share.)
Kinda everyone which are somewhat geeky/young/trendy around me seem to get the iPhone.
And here in Örebro, Sweden, we don't have any fancy Apple stores, we don't have any retailers which actually "belong" to Apple and can help you out where Apple themselves might had put in some extra effort, heck a year or two ago we even didn't had a store which sold Apple computers.
The Apple (buyer) experience is probably very different in the US compared to the rest of the world.
It was the network, stupid (Score:2)
The G1 would have been more successful if it wasn't tied to T-Mobile.
I knew a lot of people--non-techies by the way--that wanted it, but T-Mobile doesn't cover where we live.
T-Mobile is great if you live in a major city (I think, I've never had them), but rather crappy if you don't.
iPhone Killer? Why would Google want that? (Score:3, Insightful)
Right platform, wrong apps; I'm staying Apple (Score:2, Informative)
As a hardware and OS platform the Droid is far more appealing than my current iPhone.
But from what I've seen of the user experience so far, it's a no go. I've been spoiled on OS X on the desktop for years, and now on my phone. As much as I want to like the Droid and wish my iPhone had a slideout keyboard, I'm sticking with Apple for the time being.
It's a testament to just how good Apple is at user interface design that Microsoft and Google with all their resources can't hold a candle to it.
Many factors of success (Score:4, Insightful)
In the past, I have asserted that social popularity trumps technical superiority. Beta was superior to VHS and yet VHS won. Why? It was more popular... some would argue that it was more popular because porn was not allowed on Beta. Whatever the case, VHS was more popular and so it won.
iPhone is ridiculously popular. I don't care to go into why it is popular, but I will say I don't fully understand it because I tend to measure things by a different set of metrics than non-nerds. Whatever the cause of its popularity, iPhone will not be toppled as "king" of whatever market it rules with attack/smear ads and it won't be toppled by technical superiority or versatility. It might be toppled by convenience if that were possible and it would have to be convenient to leave it behind and/or migrate from it.
iPhone isn't just a phone. It's a hand-held computer with software applications that people use. In the past, moving from one phone to another was a matter of exporting data and importing that same data into the next phone. iPhone has applications for which there may not be equals on other phones. iPhone has applications that many have spent significant amounts of money on and people aren't willing to dump things like that so easily.
Another means of entrenchment iPhone enjoys is the connection it has with a person's identity. In much the same way people build self esteem rooting for their favorite teams in sports, the iPhone enjoys a strong fan base.
Microsoft calls what they have "critical mass." Microsoft isn't getting toppled because they have critical mass. Other reasons don't play into the current state of Microsoft nearly as much as that. People are not happy with Microsoft, but not unhappy enough to move to something else.
iPhone has not achieved critical mass, but many of the factors that contribute to the state of critical mass are present in iPhone and it is certainly moving in that direction.
Still, the iPhone doesn't rule in the way the hype and attention would seem to suggest. A recent trip through an airport showed me that Blackberry outnumbers iPhone 10 to 1. That's just an estimate I pulled out of my ass, but it's probably not far off. iPhone is limited by its exclusivity to AT&T (in the U.S.) and many people aren't interested enough in iPhone to change their carrier, but since the odds are that their non-AT&T carrier will carry an iPhone competitor, people are more inclined to give those competitors a try. Provided that the alternatives are good enough to capture an audience the way iPhone has (and that's not likely in my opinion) the iPhone's primary weakness can be exploited successfully.
To be clear, the primary weakness of the iPhone is its exclusivity to AT&T. It limits its growth potential and its flexibility. There are other factors contributing to its weaknesses, but its close ties with and influence under AT&T are at the very least holding it back and quite likely to be the most significant factor that will lead to its death.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
What I think we'll see for US "smartphone" market share in early 2011:
Apple will loudly proclaim that they are the most popular smartphone. Google will proclaim that Android is the most popular smartphone OS. RIM and Microsoft will say, "Hey! Remember us? We've got amazing stuff coming real soon now!"
The point is that both Apple and Google wi
Re: (Score:2)
I think you severely underestimate the pervasiveness of Blackberry today and how long it has been that way. Of AT&T subscribers, I can barely imagine that even half of all AT&T subscribers have an iPhone of any kind. But even if they had 100% of all AT&T subscribers, I think 25% would be an ambitious estimation for the future. For that to be possible, AT&T would have o dominate the mobile market by a much more significant factor.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
iPhone is ridiculously popular. I don't care to go into why it is popular, but I will say I don't fully understand it because I tend to measure things by a different set of metrics than non-nerds.
When the iPhone was first announced, the standard of UI design and usability on phones was completely abysmal. I'd just got a Windows Mobile phone, and while it out-featured the iPhone, half of those features were just plain unusable. It had a slide-out keyboard, a scroll wheel, a joypad, a touchscreen, on-screen keypad etc. In fact, it had so many buttons on every available surface that it was virtually impossible to pick it up without accidentally pressing something. To use it efficiently, you had to lear
iPhone killer? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
If there is, it's in the details (Score:2)
If there is a difference, it's in the details. One of which is Apple's marketing
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Applications can store all of their data files and resources on your SD card. Many do already. It's just the executable code that has to be installed locally.
Re: (Score:2)
Applications can store all of their data files and resources on your SD card. Many do already. It's just the executable code that has to be installed locally.
So convenient!
Re:Android 256MB App Storage Limit (Score:5, Informative)
What all the Android fanbois don't know, or tell you, is that Android has a 256 MB app storage limit.
No. Please learn to read. That phone has 256MB for app storage. My G1 dev phone as 1.5GB for app storage (because I've only got a 2GB card in it, and I wanted some room for ringtones, etc.)
Google, just WTF where you thinking?
Considering it was Motorola that designed the Droid, why would you think that Google had anything to do with it?
Re: (Score:2)
You are right. But just because Motorola designed the phone, doesn't mean google had nothing to do with it. I imagine that google would be heavily involved in the technical process, making recommendations, improving the experience, etc. Especially considering this is the first device to have Android 2.0, as well as real GPS navigation.
This is as much a google device as it is Motorola.
Re:Android 256MB App Storage Limit (Score:4, Insightful)
You are right. But just because Motorola designed the phone, doesn't mean google had nothing to do with it...This is as much a google device as it is Motorola.
And here you've summarized the problem without stating it.
The iPhone is one company's product: Apple. Really it's one person's phone: Steve's.
And that is why it'll be better: because Steve will fire anyone who makes a phone less than he wants.
Google will enable a superior phone. Moto will fail to deliver. But I hope that someone else delivers. I really dislike the iPhone closed platform.
Re:Android 256MB App Storage Limit (Score:5, Informative)
This is NOT an Android limit. It is a limit of the flash memory that the manufacturer decides to put in their phones. Moto decided to put just 512MB on their device, probably because that was the biggest size they could stack. Adding more would require a separate chip, like a Samsung MoviNAND (basically an SD card in IC package) that would take up more PCB room. But if they had laid down moviNAND they could have got 2G, 4G, 8G or maybe even more. There will be plenty of multi gigabyte Android devices out there in 2010.
Re: (Score:2)
From the information in your link, this is not quite true. Android doesn't allow apps to be installed to an SD card. This means that in the Droid, there is a 256MB limit. However, other Android devices have much more ROM, allowing more space for apps.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Android 256MB App Storage Limit (Score:5, Informative)
The problem he's referring to is that the combined size of all your apps is 256MB on current phones, this isn't an individual app limit.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It's not a real problem.
Several options exists to install apps to the SD-card.
It's also possible for individual apps (like games) to store everything but the executable on the SD-card.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Proloquo2Go is 235MB. Add some user-generated content (which is what that app is for) and it would go over 256 easily.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Data, like Proloquo2Go's media files and user-generated content, can go on the SD card. Only the executable needs to be in the phone's internal memory.
Re: (Score:2)
256MB is the total size of all apps that are allowed on the phone.
As far as apps that are larger than 256MB, besides the three or four GPS navigation apps that store all of the map data on the phone, Myst is 727MB. I'm sure there are a few others.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Android 256MB App Storage Limit (Score:5, Informative)
Any single Android app can only be 256MB in size, and if any app uses that allowance, it's the only one you can install on the phone.
Bullshit. Maybe if you pulled your head out of Steve Jobs ass, it might improve your reading comprehension.
Also, read carefully: Android has a 256MB limit for total app storage.
No. YOU read carefully:
Android has no such limit. That particular phone has 256MB for total app storage. It is not an Android limit, regardless of how much you might want it to be.
Re: (Score:2)
i think it's very amusing you refer to android fanbois, but fail to make reference to apple fanbois who are 10 times more rabid.
How is your opinion of apple users relevant to the discussion?
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Android 256MB App Storage Limit (Score:5, Informative)
That's nothing compared to the fact that there isn't any android phone with 3d acceleration.
False. The G1 has 3D acceleration and supports OpenGL ES. Here's a video [youtube.com] of a demo program you can download from the Android Market.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
the 1 major thing that gave the Iphone such a major push forward. Marketing! *well image too but takes part of Marketing*
I think there is a little bit of clever code which sells those iphones. When you press and drag your finger on the application launcher the launcher exactly follows the movement of the finger. It does it too fast to measure a delay, and is accurate to the nearest pixel. Its a fantastic UI. It behaves more like a real world object than any UI I have seen anywhere.
Re: (Score:2)
I think it's the jiggle. Many of the interface responses are as if you're sliding things around on jello. It's cute, but I think it's also the key to the convincing physicality-- you don't notice little errors in tracking because you expect small deviations from your motion. If the code realizes it made a mistake, it can just smoothly jiggle itself to where it should have been. Definitely clever.
Re:The Iphone is not the Mona Lisa of Tech! (Score:5, Insightful)
1) It forgets to mention the 1 major thing that gave the Iphone such a major push forward. Marketing!
Actually, I'd say the major thing that gave the iPhone such a major push was the fact that it was the best thing at the time. People seem to have forgotten the awful "smart" phones we had before Apple decided to shake things up. The iPhone may or may not still be the best thing around (I don't know), but it seems to me we probably would have no Android today without the fresh competition Apple provided.
So will Android devices overtake the iPhone? Well I sure hope so. It would be pretty sad indeed if Android wasn't able to gain any headway seeing as how it will be on multiple devices and multiple networks and there is only one iPhone on one network. Ultimately, I think Android will be considered a success, but I also think it won't have much impact on Apple.
Re: (Score:2)
What about Google Navigation?
There's an app for that. Or more precisely, there's over 500 apps for that, I couldn't be arsed counting after the 4th page of them. Some of these are made by very trusted names in the business, like TomTom.
Voice recognition?
That one's built in, but there's apps for that too...
What about what the Iphone lacks like... a KEYBOARD.
No one gives a shit except geeks who've never actually tried an iPhone keyboard for more than 4 seconds, and hence haven't discovered you can type fast
Re:The Iphone is not the Mona Lisa of Tech! (Score:4, Insightful)
No one gives a shit except geeks who've never actually tried an iPhone keyboard for more than 4 seconds, and hence haven't discovered you can type faster on it than with a physical one.
2 reasons why a touchscreen keyboard is unsuitable for me:
1. no tactile feedback. I'm afraid I like to be able to feel the keys before I press them so I know my finger is in the right place.
2. I want to be able to see what's on the screen without a virtual keyboard covering it up.
I'll admit that (1) might be something that I would learn to do without if I used an iPhone all the time, but no amount of practice is going to prevent (2) from being a problem - I get an 80x25 terminal window on my phone, which I use for doing things like remotely administering servers; reducing the visible area of that terminal to 3 or 4 lines so that I can fit a keyboard on the screen would make it very unusable. Sure, most people aren't using their phones for administering servers, but this is a major reason for me buying a smartphone since it means I can avoid carrying a laptop around most of the time.
When will you iPhone fanboys get it into your head that a single design of device *never* suits everyone - just because you find a design choice to be ok doesn't mean that everyone else will. Choice is good.
100,000 apps. Seriously, it's *that* important.
I imagine that Symbian has well over 100,000 apps. Most of them are utter shit. Raw numbers are meaningless - if there were 100,000 _good_ apps then that would be something worth shouting about, but that's not the case.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
It is not a bad device. You quoted me stating that it is a very nice device, so I'm very confused that you think I've assumed it's a bad device.
It is a very nice device, but that doesn't stop it being over-hyped or over-marketed. And having used one more than once, I still don't want one.
I want Flash support because I use websites that have embedded flash in them. Not all of them use it for streaming video, and none of them use it for games.
However, Flash was only an example of the type of application that
Its not just the OS and apps (Score:3, Informative)
I have an iPod touch and and HTC Magic ( T-Mobuile version - myTOuch).
The real difference is the design of the UI and the functionality of they UI and the smoothness of the UI interaction with the hardware. The Android needs to come with better UI widgets. Maybe there are better ones, but even Google's own apps suffer from lousy design use widgets. Not just lousily implemented functionality, but also look. I have seen way better from Google than what I see in 1.6.
Android 1.6 reminds of the linux distros fro
Re:Its not just the OS and apps (Score:4, Interesting)
The HTC Magic is however frankly a crap device. On paper it has good specs, but it's a generation too slow for the OS and it's not really that nice.
Disclaimer: I own one.
Android was never going to compete on the first generation devices. The new generation - starting with the Motorola Droid - will be the ones that start to demonstrate the platform to its full potential.
It'll be interesting to see how well it does. Me, I'm skipping Android for a generation and going n900..
Re:What will it really take? Apps Apps Apps (Score:5, Insightful)
Spoken like a review from a windowshopper.
Look, there is nothing special about the Iphone OS any more.
That just isn't true. Android 2.0 is pretty attractive on the surface, but it's still plagued with UI and usability kinks that have yet to be worked out. Multi-touch still isn't quite right, nor is it fluid. Android's interaction on the desktop is much better than most of its competitors, but it still lags behind the iTunes experience. There are plenty of advantages to the iPhone platform, including the iPhone OS.
When someone writes a wrapper for these App store Apps that allows them to run on Android, its game over for this particular advantage.
That's what they said about Linux and Windows in 1996. Easier said than done. We're still waiting.
But lets face it, the hardware has no particular advantage any more
The pile of hardware components was never the advantage to begin with. The devil's in the details. It'd be a trivial effort to out-spec the iPhone's hardware, but that doesn't get you anywhere on its own. Look at the terrible state of video playback at the time on smartphones even with the same muscle as the first generation iPhone.
Whether you love the iPhone or hate it, it's indisputable that it was a kick in the pants for everyone else. Now they're actually trying to make good products, and competitors are addressing their failings and adapting what they can from Apple's lead. That's how it should have worked, even if the iPhone never existed, but it just didn't. Even Windows Mobile, while still painful to use, is at least easier to look at these days.
But Android has the advantage of youth, and none of the baggage of middle age.
Drama much? The iPhone is "middle-aged"? What does that make RIM/Blackberry? A pensioner?
Re: (Score:2)
Its not Apples fault. The iPhone OS was never designed with all of those app in mind. If/When Apple re-works the interface, with categorization of apps, (folders if you will) they can maintain the lead.
You mean the free categorisation of apps into separate sections on the home screen? You mean, like, swiping your finger and getting a new home screen with new apps on it? You mean like it already supports and has done since years ago?
Re: (Score:2)
You mean the free categorisation of apps into separate sections on the home screen?
Not at all. A bigger heap is still a heap. Cutter that expands to fill multiple desktops is still clutter.
I mean the categorizing apps by function, as well as by any other category the user wants.
Take a look at the menu system of any modern linux distribution. If you are a windows user you will be shocked to learn that the category structure is simple, well organized, and automatically maintained, but still allows users to customize it.
I'm not talking about the graphical layout on the screen. There many
Re: (Score:2)
Not at all. A bigger heap is still a heap. Cutter that expands to fill multiple desktops is still clutter.
Except that it's not a heap, it's a stack of lists, the screens contain ordered applications, not randomly jumbled ones, and they do not have to be full before you move onto the next one. Users typically have a screen per category of apps, though it would be *really* nice to get smart folders as well as just folders here.
Re: (Score:2)
Ask to look at any friend's non-jail broken phone.
Page thru the apps. They are a mess. You can't find anything. You are looking at little pictures but nothing sinks in.
Give your phone to any 5 year old and two minutes later it will look just like that friends phone.
It takes time to figure out how to arrange them by function, so you can find them. Then you end up searching all over for the ones you use frequently. So you put the frequent ones all in one screen and page all over looking for the one you n
Re: (Score:2)
With 90,000 apps (75,000 of which are redundant "Crapps") it has the clear lead in developer mind share, monitization infrastructure, and deployment.
I doubt this assertion for several reasons. While the number of applications appears to be impressive, it is hard to compare the number of iPhones available in the Apps Store with the number of apps available to the WinMo and Blackberry platforms because both have multiple apps stores between the offical platform stores, sites like handango and crackberry, a
Re: (Score:2)
True there are alternative sources for apps on other platforms, including the possibility of "side loading" them on memory, or from your computer. You can often buy these on company web sites of the developer.
Of course you have to find them somehow, and Google can be your friend in this. I suspect not one in 10 Blackberry users has ever heard of handango.
But you do bring up another aspect of the problem. As long as Apple insists on maintaining total control there is an avenue for competition by other plat
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You do realise that Android comes with a 'market' application built in, that provides a wide selection of free and to-buy applications that can be downloaded to the device?
Oh, and that you don't have to use a PC (Windows, Mac or otherwise) to do this, or to update the OS, or to find and install applications that aren't on the market?
And that nobody prevents applications appearing in the market because they may impact on the profitability of the device manufacturer?
Apple has the apps at the moment, but it's