Chinese Employee Loses iPhone Prototype, Kills Self 514
tlhIngan writes "Physical intimidation of a Foxconn employee, 25 year-old Sun Danyong, and a possibly-illegal search of his house may have led to suicide after an iPhone prototype in his possession was lost. Foxconn is Apple's long-time manufacturing partner for the iPhone. Entrusted with 16 iPhone prototypes, Danyong discovered that one was missing and searched the factory for it. When it didn't turn up, he reported the incident to his boss, who ordered his apartment searched. There are reports of physical intimidation by Foxconn security personnel. This ended tragically on Thursday at 3 AM, when Danyong jumped from his apartment building to his death." VentureBeat notes that "Apple exerts immense pressure on its business partners [to] help it maintain secrecy." An Apple spokesperson said this to CNet: "We are saddened by the tragic loss of this young employee, and we are awaiting results of the investigations into his death. We require our suppliers to treat all workers with dignity and respect."
Suicide? (Score:4, Funny)
There's an app for that...
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Funny)
I hear that it's the next big killer app.
Okay, okay. iUnderstand iStopNow else iDie.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Ha, iKillMe. /Alf
Poor guy... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Poor guy... (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't like playing cultural imperialist, but something about current Asian cultures seems to me to be broken: this isn't exactly the first suicide of its sort, or even an uncommon phenomenon, just one of the more high-profile cases (since it's Apple, and a senior guy). Western culture isn't immune to these effects either (cf. high-profile financial advisors committing suicide in 2008-2009), but I understand that it's significantly more of an issue in Asia. I'd hazard that it's something in the common implementation of 'honor' and self-value that predisposes people towards a massive breakdown in the face of 'public disgrace'.
Not that Americans couldn't use a bit more of the right sort of Honor in their regimen, mind you.
Re:Poor guy... (Score:5, Informative)
According to this [who.int] the top 7 are not Asian. China is way down there, below France, Poland, Switzerland, Uruguay.
Country, Male Suicide per 100k, Female suicide per 100k, total pop suicide per 100k, year
Lithuania 68.1 12.9 38.6 2005
Belarus 63.3 10.3 35.1 2003
Russia 58.1 9.8 32.2 2005
Slovenia 42.1 11.1 26.3 2006
Hungary 42.3 11.2 26.0 2005
Kazakhstan 45.0 8.1 25.9 2005
Latvia 42.0 9.6 24.5 2005
Japan 34.8 13.2 23.7 2006
I assumed the suicide rate would be much higher in Asia, but I guess it is just reported more or happens in more high-profile cases or something.
Re:Poor guy... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Poor guy... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Poor guy... (Score:5, Insightful)
Just an FYI, in Asia most suicides are classified as something else in true crime rates. In order to affect a lower suicide rate in the overall data trending. European data trending can be higher because they sometimes include 'other' crimes into their suicide figures during data reporting.
Never trust data, unless you see the raw data sets yourself.
Top 5, not Top 7 (Score:3, Informative)
Your top five are not in Asia. You may not think of it as such, but Kazakhstan is most definitely an Asian country.
Mal-2
Re:Poor guy... (Score:4, Insightful)
That would be worthless (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
My guess is that next year, we will bring pressure on CHina to live up to their obligat
Re:Poor guy... (Score:4, Interesting)
in South Korea, the time of year when students get their report carts is known as 'jumping season'
Re:Poor guy... (Score:5, Interesting)
It's not the culture, it's the demographics.
Take China. Population 1.3 billion. But only 500 million of those are really taking part in the new economy. The other 800 million live in rural poverty. In fact, most of the 500 million who aren't, typically don't fare much better.
What does this mean in practical terms? It means that unless you are incredibly well educated, connected or monied, you are very, very expendable. There are literally ten people lined up behind you waiting for the same job, which means unless you are prepared to work enormous hours, under extreme pressure, in terrible conditions, you won't get it.
I had a talk with someone recently back from a business trip to Shanghai. Their group took a short walk through the city one evening, between the rows of shining new skyscrapers that carpet the metropolitan area. As they walked, they could see into offices where employees could be seen through the windows, sleeping on the desks they had been working at all day. How are you supposed to compete with that?
China is witnessing the kind of rapid capitalism not seen in the world since the 1890's. An economy where labour is cheap and people are treated worse and paid less because there are so many others, literally hungry enough to so the same for even less than that. The kind of capitalism that gave rise to theories like Say's Law [wikipedia.org], which held you could never have massive unemployment because there would always be people willing to work for a bowl of rice a day.
And do you know what the most ironic thing about this whole state of affairs is? China has never actually had a communist revolution.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Poor guy... (Score:4, Insightful)
I think this a fallacy promoted by those who want to maintain profit margins. If this were true, then we should expect to see mass unemployment in most western countries where these protections apply. But we don't. And while it's true that many jobs have gone to China, one could make the case that the average Chinese worker is actually worse off in terms of quality of life compared to the western worker, who is only marginally so, if at all.
The great paradox of the Chinese economic boom is how it has so failed to significantly raise the living standards of the population as a whole. The reason it has failed is because of lack of protection and fair compensation for employees. There is little domestic demand for goods as people have little money and less time to buy them. Western economies were similar for decades, with successive booms doing little to improve the lot of the average man until labour laws came into force, primarily after the second world war.
Industrial relations are an extremely important part of any economy, and it is vital that a balance be achieved there. China has so far failed to achieve this balance. The consequences for failing to do so may be dire indeed.
Re:Poor guy... (Score:4, Insightful)
"current Asian cultures seems to me to be broken"
Good going, dude. Please, point us at your published works on philosophy. Seems to me that OUR WAY is as broken as Asia's way, maybe worse.
Remember the financial meltdown on Wall Street, recently? There should have been hundreds of bodies hitting the sidewalk. Not for their own lost fortunes, but for the billions and billions of dollars lost that WEREN'T THEIR'S to lose.
Buncha low lifes.....
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It's not that Asian work culture is broken; it's just very, very different from what we in Western cultures are accustomed to. Let's take Japan as a (very overused, but perfect) example. Japanese students begin training for an entrance exam from the 5th grade. The grade on that entrance exam is, for all intents and purposes, the difference between a Japanese student landing a decent job and living a very difficult life.
On top of that, the Japanese hold very high regards to their workmanship, and many employ
Re:Poor guy... (Score:5, Informative)
There were 5,400 suicides in the UK in 2007. There have been more in other years.
A raw stat without comparison is meaningless though. 5,400 sounds like a lot, but is it really?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate [wikipedia.org]
Looking at this list, it appears that the UK is 66th on the list for suicide rate. The US is 43rd. China is 26th and Japan is 8th. South Korea is 11th and Hong Kong (not sure why this didn't get lumped with China) 18th.
That said, not all Asian countries are high on the list. The Philippines is 86th and Thailand is 57th. Singapore is 48th.
If anything, the trend I see is not East Asian countries being high on the list, but rather a lot of Eastern European/North and North Western Asian countries (ie, Russia and it's western neighbors) being pretty high up.
Re:Poor guy... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:this wasn't a suicide (Score:5, Insightful)
People kill themselves for much lesser reasons than losing a top-secret prototype that makes their company a lot of money, and by losing it will end said suicide-ee's career with said company.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I bet the RIDES in those malls are freakin' AWESOME!!
Re:this wasn't a suicide (Score:5, Insightful)
.
Just answer me one question: where you get all those information from? Seriously, where? Slashdotter loves China bashing, and you take it to the next lower level. Shame on modders for "Interesting".
Re:Poor guy... (Score:5, Insightful)
There really isn't anything out there worth giving your life for...it is short enough as it is, no need to 'rush' it.
Really? Even being "chained" to a hospital bed so you can be "brave" for 2 years as cancer eats up your body painfully?
Everyone dies. What is so wrong with going out at your own choosing?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
God says you're wrong son.
Western aversion to suicide is religious. In Western Christian churches only God has the power to choose who lives or dies. Eastern religions like Buddhism, Confucianism and Taoism don't have this compunction. In Bhuddism, suicide is one of those "I really rather you didn'ts", being a reincarnation religion it doesn't matter that much, you just may have to incur some bad Karma which determines weather you come
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
On the other hand, there is a potentially slippery slope here for the acceptability of: suicide --> assisted suicide --> encouraged suicide --> eugenics.
Oh, I think I should have included "Profit!!!" somewhere on that list....
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Poor guy... (Score:4, Informative)
I haven't heard much about China, but in Japan (8th highest suicide rate) "losing face" can end your career. Submitting a bad report and having your boss say "Maybe you should re-write that" is akin to a death sentance. Their career at best will go nowhere, and at worst the boss will soon find another place for you. That doesn't pay as well. If at all. /enddramaticuseofperiod
Different cultures are different. That should be apparent. In the US, a high importance is placed on the individual. Selfishness reigns, and if your boss tells you your project sucks, he can shove it. If he tries to stifle your career, you can go somewhere else. Other cultures see things differently, and a person who leaves one company for no apparent reason may be seen as tainted, and not welcome somewhere else.
I can't apply that directly to this case, but you get the point. You can't look at another culture from your culture's point of view and expect to make sense of it. You can compare cultures, but that's a whole 'nuther exercise, and an extremely difficult one to be objective while doing it.
Re:Poor guy... (Score:5, Interesting)
I haven't heard much about China, but in Japan (8th highest suicide rate) "losing face" can end your career. Submitting a bad report and having your boss say "Maybe you should re-write that" is akin to a death sentance.
You read that in the American media, right?
Japanese people are not so precious. I've lived in Japan off and on (mostly on) for the last 10 years. Guess what? People here are the same as anywhere else.
The corporate culture you describe is something I have never seen or heard of, outside of stupid 80s movies about how Japan was going to take over the world, which were themselves just retreads of stupid WWII propaganda films about how Japan was going to take over the world. It is largely a fabrication based on a handful of isolated incidents. Does it happen? Of course. It happens in Western countries too. It's just far, far from common.
Full Disclosure: In addition to living here, I took 200 credits of Asian language, culture, history, and political science in college, studying both in the US and Japan. 'm not talking out of my ass here.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Poor guy... (Score:5, Insightful)
Well to put this into perspective:
Hank Paulson served a little under 3 years as Secretary of Treasury for George W. Bush. He helped to initiate the bailouts under Bush.
Ben Bernanke served a little over 3 years as Chairman of the Federal Reserve. He also helped to initiate the bailouts under Bush.
Alan Greenspan served as Chairman of the Federal Reserve for almost 20 years before Bernanke.
Timothy Geithner served as President of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York for 6 years before his current position as Secretary of the Treasury.
and you lump these men together with:
Bernie Madoff who conducted a $65 billion world-wide Ponzi scheme lasting several decades.
You might disagree with the course of action these men have chosen for the country in the current crisis. You may question their intelligence and vision for not foreseeing the problems before they became crises, but I don't know if anyone should equate their actions or lack of actions to outright fraud. What is it that you think they should atone for?
The problems that have lead to the current situation were probably a decade in the making. The only one that might have had any real opportunity to change the course of history was Greenspan. Everyone else was relatively new to their job. And for the record, Greenspan admitted he placed too much faith in the rational behavior of financial institutions.
Re:Poor guy... (Score:4, Insightful)
Wait, how do weird fetishes disqualify someone from government appointments?
Hell, in the good ol' Roman days...
Yeah sure (Score:5, Insightful)
Illegal searches, intimidation, then "suicide"... Uh huh... yeah...
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
If people in the west think that this sort of thing is limited to low level Chinese citizens they'd be wrong as well.
Witness the latest Rio Tinto troubles - they've "arrested" an Australian Rio Tinto (a major aussie-uk mining company that operates in Aus) employee on "suspicion" of "economic espionage" - holding him without charge for two weeks now. WTF is "economic espionage"? It's upsetting strategic Chinese interests in the course of doing business with said interests is what it is.
See apparently it's j
It sends a message to Apple (Score:3, Informative)
That they will do anything that it takes to prevent this from happening again.
On the upside.... (Score:4, Funny)
There is now another liver available for transplant.
Re: (Score:2)
Nope, Damaged by impact. They'll fire up the execution vans when they need some fresh ones.
suppliers... (Score:5, Insightful)
"We require our suppliers to treat all workers with dignity and respect"
Because nothing says dignity and respect like working in a sweatshop and being paid pennies an hour...
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Welcome to your "free trade" competition. This is the world that business lobbyists want, and they aren't going away, so get used to it. Democracy, my ass.
Re:suppliers... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I heard a piece on NPR about Chinese firms hiring Americans to present a "foreign firm" look to what is truthfully a local company. For whatever reasons, Chinese firms feel discriminated against for being Chinese by both foreign companies and other Chinese firms.
I'm not sure that hiring actors as negotiators for an hour is helping the whole trustworthy stereotype...
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Yeah, I've done that a few times. It's not "discriminated against", whatever that means (not surprised NPR took that angle, though). Chinese people consider foreign-invested projects as desirable, while local innovation is considered shabby and not likely to increase China's standing in the world.
For those of you having problems wrapping your brain around this idea, compare this: you're considering two vendors, one owned by Joel and one by Joe-Jack. Joel wears his sunglasses indoors, has an iPod conspicu
Re:suppliers... (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually, quite a few products are made by well paid people in western countries, precisely because they have unions. Not all unions are good, but many are.
Corporations don't lower their prices when they reduce their costs. They just pocket the money. That's why Apple has tens of billions of dollars in the bank - they moved their manufacturing to China and didn't lower their prices in line with the reduction in manufacturing costs. That's why the middle class in America has been making less money for nearly thirty years, and corporate profits continue to rise, and union membership has declined. America is the only modern western nation where the middle class is worse off than in 1980, and the only nation that has a broken union movement. This is not a coincidence.
You live in a fantasy land where somehow giving all the power in a corporation to a board that's nothing more than a modern royal court is good for anyone but the royal court. Do you think for one minute that one of these guys thinks twice about pocketing extra cash for a second vacation home over offering a good paying job to someone they don't know?
Give me a fucking break.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Citation needed.
I suppose, not all trusts [wikipedia.org] were bad either, but the US has long-standing laws against them. What many fail to realize, is that trade unions are the same — trusts seeking to become monopolistic sources of their members' services. That they sometimes fight for that through highly illegal means, including violence [nrtw.org] ought to subject them
Re:suppliers... (Score:5, Insightful)
America is the only modern western nation where the middle class is worse off than in 1980, and the only nation that has a broken union movement. This is not a coincidence.
Yeah, if only we had more unions to fix our economy like they fixed the auto, airline, and public education industries, we'd be much better off.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
>Would you rather they have no jobs than the sweatshop?
I think I might. If people weren't deprived of their time and energy, they might be able to subsist *and* overthrow their government.
For a business, patronage is the highest praise... (Score:5, Insightful)
When it didn't turn up, he reported the incident to his boss, who ordered his apartment searched. There are reports of physical intimidation by Foxconn security personnel.
The question is, will this lead to companies being less, or more likely to look upon Foxconn positively when considering an OEM who will keep their new prototype under wraps?
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
It depends on whether or not they get the prototype back, doesn't it?
Re:For a business, patronage is the highest praise (Score:4, Informative)
Insert Your Morbid Tag Line Here (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
"The iPhone 4 - you'll be in seventh heaven"
Re:Insert Your Morbid Tag Line Here (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Insert Your Morbid Tag Line Here (Score:4, Interesting)
coverups (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:coverups (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, he jumped off a balcony...on to some bullets.
Re:coverups (Score:4, Insightful)
So, on the one hand, skepticisim is healthy.
On the other hand, this isn't skepticism, this is just a different sort of gullibility. And if you allow yourself to believe so many things for which you have absolutely no evidence whatsoever, you draw yourself into a world that is not entirely like the real world, and approach insanity.
Culture of Secrecy (Score:3, Insightful)
This is the high pressure culture of secrecy taken to its logical conclusion in a country with little worker protection. I highly doubt Apple has any legal responsibility in this, but they do share a portion of the moral culpability along with the management of Foxconn. Did the senior management of Foxconn push the man out a window? No, but they created the corporate culture in which it happened. Likewise, Apple have worked with Foxconn for years now; they created the high pressure culture of secrecy and then turned a blind eye to how Foxconn enforces it.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Culture of Secrecy (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Culture of Secrecy (Score:5, Insightful)
Many people think the way you seem to, which is that "opting out" is impossible. This is an uninformed opinion, it would seem, since options abound. You just have to decide to A) look for them and then B) choose them. Moral backflipping also seems to allow people to continue to sleep at night while their conveniences are paid for in blood by their fellow man in other countries.
Re:Culture of Secrecy (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
There are a few lines of New Balance shoes made in the USA of >70% USA-origin materials (such as the 991/992/993 line), and several more lines made in USA of 70% USA materials. Basically, as New Balance has grown over the last 10 years, they have expanded by importing rather than by building new factories in the USA.
Re:Culture of Secrecy (Score:4, Informative)
Half-false. There are New Balance factories in the US.
However, when I went looking for a way to find a New Balance shoe that was made in the US, I failed. All the New Balance shoes I've ever seen were stamped "Made In China."
They seem to have greatly fixed up their website now, though. There's now a "Made In USA" section for men's [nbwebexpress.com] and women's [nbwebexpress.com] shoes. So if you want to buy one of the small fraction of shoes that are made in the US, you can.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The "Made in China" label on my 622s says otherwise.
I've never heard anything about farm life -- either from people who used to do it or less directly -- which suggests it's any better than sweatshop labor.
Re:Culture of Secrecy (Score:4, Insightful)
That is, unless they have to spend 75% of their income on paying taxes and hiring people to handle regulatory compliance, which is what drove all those companies you mentioned over to China in the first place.
Yeah...maybe more regulations AREN'T such a great idea...
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
That's the thing about people who want big government, they aren't willing to even give freedom a chance
We gave effectively unrestricted market freedom a chance in 19th century. The outcome was such that government regulation was uniformly instituted all around the globe at the beginning of 20th century to mitigate the negative effects on both workers and consumers.
In particular, the outcome was formation of huge monopolies that dominated the market, strangled any existing competition by engaging in price-fixing, dumping, and other anti-competitive behavior, and raised barriers of entry for any new would-be c
Re: (Score:2)
True to a certain extent. But I would suggest that there is a lot more due diligence required when you're in a billion dollar partnership than if you're a consumer on the street spending a hundred bucks on a gadget.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The "due diligence" you speak of for the multi-billion dollar company has more to do with an investigation into the finances of a potential partner, and has very little to do with any kind of analysis of a partner's ethical fortitude.
One might say the consumer's "due diligence" is exactly the opposite and subsequently far, far more important.
Re: (Score:3)
They do tend to take more responsibility for their actions than we do in the West.
Re:Culture of Secrecy (Score:5, Interesting)
Or, rather, they are more likely to make scapegoats pay the ultimate price.
Do you think executing the head of their FDA-equivalent solved the underlying problems that led to so many public disgraces due to contaminants? Do you think that person was solely responsible for those problems?
Executing that man was PR. Nothing less, nothing more. It's the other actions they have, or have not, taken that would truly demonstrate whether they have taken responsibility.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Perhaps PR. Or lip service, let's call it. Here in the US, we don't even bother to pay lip service. Shit hits the fan, we railroad a schmuck from the mail room, and then pretend that all's sorted out. It's like the politicos saying "I take full responsibility" with absolutely no consequence. The term "responsibility" must have changed their meaning some time while I wasn't looking.
What the hell am I rambling on about? Gotta take my senility pills.
Re:Culture of Secrecy (Score:4, Insightful)
Also part of the reason it may have been a problem in this particular case is because of Apple's love for secrecy. Foxconn is a major electronics provider and works with all kinds of companies, in addition to selling under their own brand. Now of course like any contractor, they want to keep the people they work with happy. Well for many companies, this wouldn't have been such a big deal. After all frequently companies post pictures of prototype hardware on the web, or send prototype samples to reviewers. Motherboards would be a good example. You usually see a picture of and get a story on a board a month or two before you can buy it. Thus a leak might not be a big deal. They get informed of a leak and they say "Oh well, it's public info anyhow." However Apple has an irrational obsession with secrecy. Nothing can be known by anyone until it is unveiled with big fanfare at some event. They vigorously go after sites that post info on upcoming products and so on.
Ok well Foxconn knows this, and thus wants to keep Apple happy and maybe responds in a stronger way than normal because of who their customer is. They know that a leak of a prototype, even just the pictures, could be reason for Apple to stop doing business with them since in Apple's world information must be tightly controlled.
I don't want an iPhone amymore... (Score:2, Insightful)
It give me the creeps knowing how Apple does business. It is obvious that this busniess partner is evil and they continue to work with them.
Re:I don't want an iPhone amymore... (Score:5, Insightful)
In all fairness I believe both HP and Dell get motherboards and laptops made from Foxconn as well. But certainly Apple's business practices are less than stellar. For every evil business practice we hate Microsoft for, usually Apple follows the same practice and somehow gets a pass.
Re:I don't want an iPhone amymore... (Score:5, Insightful)
Bottom line.. if you like electronic devices, you have to go some way to avoid Foxconn. Apple is known for its secrecy, but we documented evidence that Apple was involved in this intimidation in anyway, you have to assume that Foxconn, and only Foxconn is responsible.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
"Bottom line.. if you like electronic devices, you have to go some way to avoid Foxconn. Apple is known for its secrecy, but we documented evidence that Apple was involved in this intimidation in anyway, you have to assume that Foxconn, and only Foxconn is responsible."
But Apple must be a contributory party if they keep their Foxconn involvement secret.
It seems to me that if we really want to eliminate economic exploitation, we have to outlaw commercial secrecy. Outsource if you must, but insist that ALL ou
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I don't want an iPhone amymore... (Score:5, Interesting)
Who are you going to buy instead? Everyone gets their systems built in China, under these conditions. Foxconn is probably one of the better ones.
It's the cost of cheap, disposable goods in the West.
Used to be you'd buy a fridge built in your country, a TV, a car, a washing machine, everything, and it would last years and years. But they were expensive, and major purchases. They kept an economy alive, with people being paid reasonable wages. The electronics industry in a rapid speed to be competitive has changed this. We could have a computer that lasted 10 years, but it would really hold things back if you gamed, or did real work. So it drove an industry of rapid upgrades for computers and personal electronics, that don't last long. Western design, eastern construction.
But these eastern companies don't have the same standards of construction, of employee care, or values, as we do. Additionally the stresses of overwork are immense, they don't have cushy offices, free coffee and 9-5 hours like many of us. Also their upbringing is different. Coupled together, it will add up to a situation where people burn out rapidly, or worse commit suicide if something goes wrong. Many people to replace them of course. Nothing like your own company breaking into your own living space and scaring the bejesus out of you.
Fucking killing yourself over a front-facing camera, or an OLED screen, or whatever the iPhone 4 will have. Hell, it was probably an iPod Touch 3 for all we know. That shows a massive failure of the value system. Hell, it'll turn out to be the iPhone clone rip-offs that Foxconn probably make on the side won't it? As long as the Chinese elite bosses are okay, that's all that matters. Everything else is a meatgrinder. It's 18th Century with hi-tech, and it won't improve until we stop feeding it.
"... with dignity and respect" (Score:5, Insightful)
Hah! Like Apple treats its iphone app developers ?
Self-Terminating Data... (Score:2)
This guy in china is a perfect example of such wonderful Chinese engineering.
It was eninvitable (Score:2)
Foxconn owns most employee apartments (Score:2, Interesting)
Not sure how illegal a search of the guy's apartment would be if they own the place.
I seem to remember an article on here about foxconn "city", everyone ate,worked and lived on the foxconn campus.
apple needs to make them to fallow china labor (Score:2)
apple needs to make them to fallow china labor and other laws as well going beyond them and not working people to death.
Suicide? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
s/surveillance/security
Dammit, paranoia is contagious.
Apple is just another slave master. (Score:3, Insightful)
"We require our suppliers to treat all workers with dignity and respect."
Yeah right. Thats why Apple employs chinese workers who fear for their lives. Chinese labor is employed because its virtually slave labor. Its cheap, easily controlled, and cut throat business practices allow them to dispose of workers at will.
Either this guy was a spy, or he made an honest mistake. Whatever the case may be, its said that he took his life.
I still find it sick that Apple can say they require their suppliers to treat workers with dignity and respect in one breathe, but in practice they really do not care because look at who they employ!
Free trade? (Score:4, Insightful)
Why isn't the difference in workers' rights and environmental abuse priced into free trade agreements?
I have no problem with work going to China, as long as the employers there also have to pay for health care, disability, U.S. minimum wages, and safe workplace enforcement; cannot dump their waste into rivers, etc.
Without those restrictions, U.S. workers cannot hope to compete based on price.
So work done in those countries, and items manufactured in those countries, should probably incur tariffs big enough to compensate for all those other disparities.
Re:Who cares (Score:5, Insightful)
Your bosses were mean to you: sue them, find another job, learn to live with it.
Yes, because that works so well in China, right?
Get some fucking compassion, idiot.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
So tell me, what color is the sky in your world?
Re:Who cares (Score:5, Insightful)
Why not? Believe it or not people are able to sue when they are harmed by somebody, even in China.
You realize that families who lost their children as a direct result of incompetence and negligence haven't even been able to seek redress [timesonline.co.uk] under the Chinese system? You really think some poor bastard working for an industrial conglomerate stands a chance? I think you've wandered away from the reservation on this one....
Parents devastated at the loss of sons and daughters, most born under China's strict "one couple, one child" family planning policy, have sought a government accounting and a proper explanation as to why so many schools fell down.
Police and local officials have blocked parents of the dead children from staging protests to seek information. An Amnesty International report this week chronicles instances in which parents were detained by police while seeking answers from courts.
Lawyers who took on such cases came under pressure to drop their involvement.
Apple says: (Score:3, Insightful)
Then why build your product in China?
What's next, Apple, making MacBooks in rural Iran?
Re: (Score:3)
I'm afraid you're being pretty naive, my friend. Even here in the United States the chances of you being successful and winning a judgement in a wrongful termination suit are miniscule. In a totalitarian state like China, they'd be infinitesimal, and that's assuming that the government didn't go ahead and toss you in a jail cell for a few years just for having the temerity of bringing the suit in the first place.
Did he jump? (Score:2)
I mean, you're completely right... So it seems kind of unlikely that someone would kill themselves over a phone.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Are you factoring in the culture in this case? Honor means a lot to Asians. For them, failure of this magnitude may have only one acceptable response: seppuku, or the equivalent for the locale. It may seem a little drastic for Americans - is a product or company worth that much? - but we're obviously, and thankfully, not the model for every society.
Re: (Score:2)
I always equated that more with Japanese culture than Chinese.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Don't confuse "Asia" with "Japan" (Score:3, Insightful)
"Honor" for "Asians"? Which, of the many Asian cultures, are you talking about? If Japan, then sure, to some extent this is the case. It was more so in years past, but hey, things change.
In China, I'm not so sure. I'm not as familiar with Chinese cultural mores, not having lived there, but everything I've read suggests that "seppuku" (which, incidentally, is a Japanese word) is much less of a popular out than it is/was in Japan. I bring up the significant possibility that Sun Danyong's death might no
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Now why are we talking about this when this event occurred in China? (not Japan)
Greed is GOOD!! (Score:5, Funny)
Jesus Christ Kid! Wake up and smell the Coffee! It's the Noughties! I'm not paying you to think about flower power and peace among the animals.
Consider this mac: Supply and Demand!! If there's one thing that human history has taught us, it's that people are cheap, but profits are forever. You know how many guys like this guy there are? You know how many iPhone prototypes there are? You don't need to do a lot 'a math to see how this is gonna work out. Man, I could tell you stories about coffee beans and Nicaraguans in the 80's. Fucking great times!
Holy shit! The only time you need to you to jump out a window is when the stock is at 5c and your pretty sure the guy is like, your spitting image. The lesson here is that if the pressure is this fucking high, you need a safety valve, otherwise known as a fall guy. In fact, I'm betting this guy was that guy! Sweet play.
You know, you should be thinking about other people. You should be thinking about how to make money off of 'em, or else get them outta your way. You see a bus load of traumatised kids. I see a several lifetimes worth of prescription medication sales. You see tragedy, I see opportunity.
Shit happens, deal with it. It's all part of the game. Wen just bought a new sports car. Hu just sealed the Intel deal. Yao just jumped out of ten story window. Who cares! It's all just gossip material to spend over Espresso lattes. The second you stop to moralise over rights, wrongs, lifes, deaths; is the second you stop making money. You gotta straighten those suspenders, up the sperm count on the deal, and keep kickin' ass, so people know your the hardest asshole around.
Prime example, Steve fucking Jobs. Guy's such a ball buster that he's got subcontractors breakin' down apartment doors and throwing suckers outta windows just to keep the latest indigo and cyan iDink case covers an international fucking secret. And people still think he's Michael Jackson! You will never have those stones.
So, Put it all on AAPL, Bernanke's got the kettle on. And get yourself a dog!