Can Open Source Outdo the IPod? 484
CHaN_316 writes "Wired is running an article entitled, "Can Open Source Outdo the IPod?" Asking the open source community to help them compete with the iPod. From the article: 'Consumer electronics manufacturer Neuros Audio is tapping the open-source community to convert its upcoming portable media player from iPod road kill into a contender [...] To get the ball rolling, Neuros recently opened up the firmware code for its Neuros 442 portable media player, which is set to launch in January [...] Neuros' hardware design is complete, comprising a Texas Instruments dual-core digital signal processor, a 3.6-inch, 65,000-color TFT display and a 40-GB hard drive for recording video from a TV or home entertainment system. But the company has left a little something -- mostly user interface tweaks -- for the volunteers.' Is this a good idea or a mere publicity stunt?"
Yes (Score:5, Informative)
Why can't it be both?
Dupe! (Score:5, Informative)
http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/10
More useful links not included in summary:
http://www.theneuros.com/index.php/Category_Roadm
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Column A, Column B (Score:3, Interesting)
That said, as nice a gesture as this is, the iPod is a lot more than just its firmware. That clickwheel interface is pretty amazing--I haven't used such an intuitive device interface in a long time
I suppose I am the only person in the whole world who finds the ipod physical interface totally "the suck" and the software unintuitive. I thought the original jog wheels were cool just because they were retro, smooth and elegant - but the whole rub your finger around a touchpad? weak! Is it a button? is it
Re:Yes (Score:2)
Re:Yes (Score:4, Insightful)
I think one of the first rules of journalism is to introduce false dilemmas whereever possible. I think the reasoning goes as follows
1. Introduce false dilemma.
2. Polarize the public, creating tension and anxiety.
3. ???
4. Profit.
It is also used widely by politicians, e.g. "You're either with us or against us", who I think employ identical reasoning.
Re:Yes (Score:5, Informative)
Snip:
Synergy (Score:5, Insightful)
Why is it that people don't "get" this - it's not sufficient now to simply make an MP3 player that "does more", or even is as easy to use as an Ipod. You need the whole shebang - the store, the presence on the desktop, the device itself, the ease of transfer between computer and device, the chic design, and good marketing/PR. Hell, there's probably loads more too.
Apple have a history (and therefore a lot of expertise) in "doing it all". They design their own hardware, write their own OS (*), develop their own apps, do their own marketing (the 'reality distortion field' effect
Coming up with an ipod-killer that could make *coffee* (+) wouldn't break the grip of Apple on this market now - it'll take a multi-vectored attack to shake their dominance, and no open-source project has the resources that Apple have in the focus areas that are needed. Open-source has manpower and skill, not billions of dollars in the bank. Apple have a fair amount of manpower and skill too...
I think Neuros will gain *some* benefit from this - it's a positive move for some people, but they're still fighting over the scraps in the remaining 10-20 percent of the market that *haven't* converted to Apple yet. Also it's cool to have legitimate access to something like this - I'm sure the OS community will come up with more uses for the Neuros device than Neuros ever thought of. I'm not *against* Neuros, I just don't think it's a disruptive idea.
Simon.
(*) Yes, I'm aware that they didn't completely design the OS, but they have contributed a good portion of it, and most of that in the user-visible areas.
(+) Yes, I'm aware that making coffee wouldn't be a useful ipod feature - think of the leakage - but I'm making the point that features alone aren't as valuable as they were when the market was nascent.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Synergy (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Synergy (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Synergy (Score:5, Insightful)
Neuros players are "cool", too -- for people who think tinkering with your MP3 player is fun. For the market of people who want to be following message boards and constantly updating their firmware, it's the best thing there is. It's silly to think, though, that that market has much room for growth.
For my part, I've been moving away from Linux and more and more onto OS X because I'm tired of needing to treat having a working computer as a hobby. The last thing I needed from an MP3 player is a *new* hobby.
Re:Synergy (Score:2)
I had a horrible time getting my player to work, and eventually got rid of it.
I want my player to be an appliance that "just works", not a hacker's fest where I get to debug beta hardware and software, and if i'm lucky, i get to hear some music.
Re:Synergy (Score:2)
Great. I hope both of them have a good time.
The only reason that Linux would become a hobby is if you felt a need to update things that don't need updating continually. Similarly, I have a hacked
Re:Synergy (Score:3, Insightful)
Or until one of the bugs in the perpetually-in-beta desktop environments, graphics drivers, media players, office suites, email clients et al bites you in t
Re:Synergy (Score:3, Informative)
Uhh have you ever been to an Ipod message board? Talk about constant firmware updating...Any ipod board and especially the apple discussions one is chock full of obsessive Ipod users wondering if the newest firmware does xxxx. Hell, what did we have? Like 4 revs of Itunes in one month? Talk about haveing to constantly tweak, maintain and follow you mp3 player. At this point
Re:Synergy (Score:5, Insightful)
The thing is, most iPod users have never been on an iPod message board....
Re:Synergy (Score:3, Insightful)
On the Mac, Software Update grabs the latest iPod firmware updates automatically. Not sure how it goes on Windows, but if I were Apple I'd make iTunes grab firmware updates on the PC side.
Many users have had horrible results with the updates btw leading to non-functioning sytems, missing libraries, and no internet access.
If an iPod firmware update crashes your system, kills your Internet or deletes system files I think
Re:Synergy (Score:3, Interesting)
(A) Attempt to sell their business;
(B) Do something else with their time and money (why have multiple vendors in a market anyway);
(C) Simply die;
or
(D) compete with Apple.
The fact that they are alive means there is currently room for them on the market. The Slashdot submission, as is the norm, has a slant worse than the article it links. There's a big difference between
Re:Synergy (Score:2)
Successfully negotiating distribution rights and rights management (DRM) with the major labels played a big part in this. So did iTunes for Windows, which is beginning to look more and more like a native Windows app...
Re:Synergy (Score:2)
If you mean "a raging, festering piece of crap" then yes, you're right. Here's a fun thing you can test at home to see if it works the same way it does for me: If I'm ripping some tracks to MP3, and I click the taskbar icon to restore the application from being minimized, then it doesn't restore - until I right-click on the taskbar icon and move my mouse pointer over the context menu which has appeared (with
Apple consistently underwhelms but markets a lot. (Score:3, Insightful)
I concur—it's the marketing. iPods are remarkably overpriced and underfeatured for what you get compared to other portable digital audio players. But everyone knows the name "iPod" because of the TV and print ads.
Even things Apple initiated, like the protocol behind what free software users call "ZeroConf" (what Apple now calls "Bonjour") aren't present in iPods despite the nice service it could help provide to iPod users—with wireless communication hardware built into a portable digital aud
Re:Apple consistently underwhelms but markets a lo (Score:3, Insightful)
First, the iPods are among the lowest-cost music players in the industry. The 30GB Dell Digital Jukebox (the cheapest, crappiest equivalent) is $260 + $20 tax + $10 shipping = $290, only $9 cheaper than the iPod (no tax, free shipping). It has a black and white screen, it looks ugly, it doesn't play video, and it's a
Re:Apple consistently underwhelms but markets a lo (Score:3, Informative)
If by marketing you mean word of mouth... (Score:3, Interesting)
The only way you achive utter market domination is by people liking a product so much
Re:Synergy (Score:2)
I have yet to see an open-source project that has a design comparable to an iPod or even MacOS X. Until I see one, the announcement, however well-meaning, is a bit of a non-starter when it comes to design.
D
So OS cannot compete versus a good Company? (Score:2)
Sorry, if everyone rolled over liked that the OS movement would never have gotten off the ground. They are countless people who would make the same glorification posts about Microsoft but that did not stop those who thought otherwise.
I have an iPod but I know damn well its not the end all of MP3 players. iTunes has its share of annoyances. The difference is that fanboi support of Apple
Re:So OS cannot compete versus a good Company? (Score:4, Insightful)
Show me a single open-source project that goes from end-to-end (source to end-user) and gives you a seamless natural way of doing "it" (whatever 'it' is) like the [itunes store][mac or pc][itunes software][ipod device][ipod interface] does. And it does it well, even under extreme loads like several thousand songs - the click-wheel made sure of that. There's nothing that Open-Source does like that. Not one thing comes to mind. Linux ? You must be joking! Apache? Yeah, right! Both of these are aimed at highly technical and able people. My sister (and you'd have to know her!) has an Ipod!
Open source is excellent at doing a task. "We want an OS". Great - here it is. "We want a webserver". Cool - here you are. As a paradigm it's less good at the whole shebang. It's a cog in the wheel, not an end, in and of itself.
I should probably point out that I've been using Linux since it came on floppies, that I ditched a DECstation 3100 to run it on an early '486. That I set up one of the earliest webservers (on the ditched DECstation, actually) in the UK - when you had to email CERN to tell them there's a new webserver in the world. I'm familiar with open-source, have used it, have contributed. I'm in no way a foe of open source. I just don't think it's a panacea.
Simon
Re:Propriatory (Score:3, Insightful)
But at the same time you create a situation where there is one sole provider of the hardware/software for the consumer. Look at the pain y
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Translation (Score:2)
At last, a corporate promise I can take to the bank!
Re:Translation (Score:5, Funny)
Short answer to article question: NO.
Re:Translation (Score:5, Insightful)
- Write it themselves, and open-source it.
- Pay someone to write it, and open-source it.
- Hope that someone in the software community writes a near-enough piece of software that can be made to work with their media player inside the time frame that they're looking for....(wait for it)
For some reason, some people still seem to have the idea that open-source development is free.and open-sources it.
Everyone, repeat after me:
Open-Source Software does not cost money.
Open-Source Software development does cost money.
Re:Translation (Score:5, Informative)
The plan from what I know as someone waiting for the Neuros3 to come out so I can purchase it, is that they're doing in-house development on it to a fully functional point and open-sourcing it and any libraries/middleware they can contractually release.
The "community" effort they're relying on to drive further adoption is for the extensions. It doesn't ship with Ogg or FLAC support natively, but someone out there is going to add it because they know how, and then it will become a selling feature. The developers who add this kind of thing will gravitate to it because it means they *can* get a portable Ogg player if they put the effort into it.
And yet, after all of this, Neuros (the company) isn't doing anything explicit for Ogg support or whatever. They're just creating a shell and letting people tinker with it. They do apply to your first criteria (Write it themselves, and open-source it.) for the basics, and then let the community push it and see how far they want to take the hardware.
Re:Translation (Score:2)
More "Skins" (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:More "Skins" (Score:2, Insightful)
PR (Score:2, Interesting)
From TFA "Most open-source projects do fail because they typically don't have full-time employees, but only a few volunteers who a lot of times are kids," Born [the CEO] said.
My guess is this article is just some paid (and poor quality) PR. Read this [paulgraham.com] to learn more about how these articles end up published.
Re:PR (Score:3, Informative)
Re:PR (Score:2)
Have fun with your Nano, I find the Neuros much more interesting and useful. I've been lost without my Neuros2 since its hdd went south and I've been too lazy to send it in for repairs. I enjoy it much more than my ipod.
Flamebait: all ur innovation belong to us. (Score:2, Insightful)
"... right now any innovation only belongs to a half a dozen companies."
What a moron. If he considers a corpse of patent lawyers innovation, he might have a point. If he wants features and convenience, he has no clue.
KDE and other have it all gpl'd and ready for anyone. Playing, ripping and portability, it's all there.
For ripping, there's the easy "abcde" program and
Damn good idea (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Damn good idea (Score:2)
Re:Damn good idea (Score:2)
Re:Damn good idea (Score:3, Informative)
iTunes has huge problems, but the one that bugs me the most is that I can't seem to get it to rip CDs with Autorun disabled. But, now that I'm using Anapod Explorer, it's a non-issue, since I'm re-ripping my CD collection into FLAC, and Anapod will convert it to WAV or MP3 on
Rockbox + iRiver (Score:3, Informative)
iRiver with open-source Rockbox [rockbox.org]...
Re:Damn good idea (Score:2)
Even if... (Score:5, Insightful)
Open source UIs (Score:5, Interesting)
I can think of a few examples of really brilliant open-source UIs: Firefox and Eclipse come to mind. So it's not impossible. But in those cases the amazingly solid core UI was developed by key players, and other developers contributed functionality.
So I'm gonna guess that the answer in this case is "almost certainly not".
Re:Open source UIs (Score:2)
The fact that the Firefox developers were working with well-understood feature sets certainly made it easier for them to put in the core architecture, which in turn made it possible for them to demand solidity from the individual feature developers. But the core team has as much to do with it as the actual feature set.
Not likely (Score:5, Insightful)
Simple as it may seem, the scroll wheel is possibly the most ingenious user interface mechanism of the past 10 years. I can pull up a list of 500 artists on my iPod and navigate to any one in a matter of seconds. Apple's patent on this design virtually ensures that every "iPod killer" will end up as "roadkill".
iTunes, on the other hand, can be copied. Apple's player is great at managing very large music libraries (10,000+ songs). Apple's Smart Playlists are as close as any software gets to letting me run SQL queries on my music library to generate playlists. I form playlists based on the play count and rating. So far, I haven't found any other music library manager that lets me get this specific, this granular with my collection.
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Not likely (Score:2)
http://dellrumors.com/index.php?p=4#comments [dellrumors.com]
Re:Not likely (Score:4, Insightful)
This is what I think makes iTunes + iPod the best, being able to manage a large music collection in very powerful ways, with ease.
Re:Not likely (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Not likely (Score:2)
scroll wheel...brilliant? Sorry, it's a pain. (Score:5, Insightful)
Funny- I find it takes 5, 10, 15, 20 seconds of:
Ever tried to change the star rating for a song? It's far too sensitive.
Ever tried to switch off your iPod by holding play down- but slide your finger ever so slightly, so the iPod thinks it's a scroll and completely ignores the button press?
Sorry. I liked the scroll-wheel-plus-4-buttons MUCH better. Apple's current design is the equivalent of iDrive, wherein they try to accomplish too much with one control. Same goes for the stick control on Sony Ericsson phones...I can't believe how many times I try to push DOWN on the stick only to have it go to the SIDE...
Also, I'm pretty sure the Slashdot Groupthink doesn't like patents. The concept of turning something to select from a list is about as old as the first radios.
Re:Not likely (Score:2)
I thought of another idea that may be a little more expensive to implement. It would be a touchscreen (like a pda). Instead of scrolling through a list of 3000 songs for a specific song, you could write the first couple of letters onto the screen (maybe like palm's graffitti) which would filter out most of the songs. You could even do searches (like type in gre and it would show you green day songs as well as songs from an album ca
Re:Not likely (Score:2)
Explain what is so specific and granular about a mechanism that lets you build playlists based on play count and rating. My Karma lets me choose individual tracks from individual albums! I don't se
Way to miss the point.... (Score:5, Insightful)
The iPod is successful NOT because of technology, or nifty programming tricks, or being able to play every free codec in existence, or what have you.
It's successful because it's stylish, because it's simple to use, and because -- and this is the only reason I use mine instead of having it sit in the junk drawer with my last 2 mp3 players -- because the software you use (iTunes) to sync with the device is USEFUL in it's own right.
Really, the key for devices like this is how well the software on the host device works. iTunes is good enough that I was using it to manage my music before I even had an iPod. Does it do everything under the sun like foobar2000 (which is what I was using before iTunes)? No. But it does the core tasks well enough that I find it very useful.
The usefulness or lack there of of the host software is going to determine how useful the Neuros product is. If it shows up as a drive, and they expect me to "manage" my music or video by copying over music out from underneath my music management software manually, I'm sorry, but it loses.
Re:Way to miss the point.... (Score:2)
Some people prefer this level of control and granularity instead of the idiot approach. Plus if it shows up as a drive you can drag and drop your latest powerpoint presentation to it and tote it around easily.
The popularity of the iPod and iTunes pretty well demonstrate that most people do NOT prefer this level of complexity. They want it to "just work", a feature which the iPod gets exactly right. As for your second point, the iPod does show up as a drive on your desktop and you can drag and drop a
Re:Way to miss the point.... (Score:3, Insightful)
It wont be any hardware... (Score:3, Insightful)
If you want to buy songs from the iTunes music store, you need an IPod...
Plain and simple.
Open Source will never change that.
Re:It wont be any hardware... (Score:3, Insightful)
because I only want that 1 song. As far a quality goes, I listen to that music on the road, so background noise is a far bigger hit to the quality.
Now, If I was sitting in a room with no background noise at all, listening to a pair of 500 dollar speaker, and had never heard anything over 90 db in my life, than yeah, I might notice a difference.
"that i can burn to as many damn cds as i want i'll pass."
Never been a problem with me
getting started? (Score:2)
I don't get it. (Score:2)
It's not that easy (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh yeah, and building a better iPod than iPod isn't that easy either.
UI (Score:3, Insightful)
From most of the OSS projects I've seen, the UI is the last thing I'd let them tweak.
OSS developers vs. general public (Score:4, Insightful)
Who's ready to grep their music?
UI design (Score:5, Interesting)
Steve's Big Mistake: Greed. (Score:2, Interesting)
There is nothing incredibly brilliant about the iPod software, its the hardware that make it a top seller. Like most things, it will only be a matter of time before Steve Job's greed and closed circuit mentality has them loose market share. We saw it with the Apple hardware, their OS, and we will see it happen with the iPod.
We have already started to see it with th
Re:Steve's Big Mistake: Greed. (Score:5, Insightful)
Steve's big advantage: Never Resting (Score:3, Insightful)
Ah...but that isn't Steve's way. That may have been Apple's way in the past, but Steve doesn't let Apple rest on its laurels. Remember when the first iMac came out? It was a big hit. He didn't just be happy with the gum drops though while imitation after imitation came out. He came out with the new iMac. And then the completely redesigned iMac again.
He did the same thin
Re:Steve's Big Mistake: Greed. (Score:4, Insightful)
Nice troll, dude, but you conveniently left out the reason they're pissed off at him -- because they want to raise the prices of the music downloads, and Apple refuses to. If he were motivated by greed in this instance, he'd jump all over that and get a bigger piece of the pie.
Re:Steve's Big Mistake: Greed. (Score:3, Interesting)
Best Buy sells their CDs below cost, by the way, as a loss leader to get people into their stores, so that's not the stellar example you wish it wer
Re:Steve's Big Mistake: Greed. (Score:5, Insightful)
You're right on one thing, it won't last forever - nothing does. However what does Steve's greed have anything to do with this issue? Also, I seriously doubt the iPod is just a cool trend. Sure, some kids definitely have them for that, but I also know a lot of over-30 folks who have them in the car, home, pocket, etc - I don't see that as a trend.
Personally, I think the iPod software is great. Both Creative and Sony had players out before the iPod and they were crap. Their interfaces sucked and Apple was able to marry the scroll wheel with easily navigation. So far, neither Creative or Sony has showed anything interesting, nor will they probably in the near future.
As for the iTunes store and Steve pissing off the owners of the music, I think you referring to the music and media cartels, right? Hmmm...
And making some missteps, that must be, what...? 1 mil videos in 20 days? Or is it over 1/2 billion songs? Or some other nook that's not been reported on yet.
Look, I love 'open source' just as much as the next guy and my livelihood actually depends on it. But just because some group of people sprinkle the magic dust on [insert app or device here] doesn't mean it's gonna rule the streets. It's so obvious sometimes that the OS and even M$ communities are so focused on their one way (M$ dominating everything and playing w/nothing and OS re-doing everything M$ does for free) of the world that to them, it's impossible that something 'not invented (or copied) here' can be great.
Honestly, I don't care much for Jobs, but I tip my hat to Apple pretty much every time I use one of their products. They understand design and implementation almost better than any tech company out there. Sure, they're not perfect, but their stuff just makes sense. This is coming from someone who took a long time to give up Windowmaker and whatever the latest and greatest Intel/Amd box of the day was. I hope some OS player will see some success, but it won't happen soon, just look at Windows vs. GNU/Linux/Gnome. You're assuming the mass of people give a shit about OS and the Windows monopoly just shows they don't. So, you can pretty much apply the same rule to the iPod for the foreseeable future.
OS.. To The Rescue! (Score:2)
Anyways, the ipod is a sucess because of adoption by the mainstream crowd, and they are not concerned about how "open" the device is. Opening your firmware is great, but work on making your next device the ipod killer, and don't expect a community to make it happen for you after the fact.
API (Score:2)
What are they trying to attack? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:What are they trying to attack? (Score:2, Informative)
1. Stylish design attracted influential people and people with money to spend on it
2. Said people informed other people about how cool the ipod is
3. Second tier of people admired the design and bought it
4. Third tier of people bought it because they didn't know any other mp3 players
5. Final tier of people bought it because everybody else had one
6. Profit!
"Hardware design is complete?" (Score:3, Informative)
Also, Digital Innovations has been open with their source code since their original Neuros audio player. Unfortunately, the code for that player had to be compiled with a proprietary DSP compiler.
Personally, my Neuros just died last month, and I really miss it, but I decided to go with an iPod to replace it, mainly because DI didn't really have a direct replacement available. The 442 is physically bigger, has a smaller HD, and costs the same as the largest iPod now available, plus you can't buy accessories at every store in the world like with an iPod. Neuros did support Ogg Vorbis, and had several features better than Apple did (like FM transmitter built-in, presets, and some nice third-party open-source sync software). But it's hard to be counterculture all the time; all I really want to do is listen to my music on the go, not fight a culture war. Pity...
I wouldn't buy a $400 ipod either (Score:2)
"Hacker" (Score:2)
Outdo - of course. Outsell? Hardly. (Score:2)
Compensation (Score:3, Insightful)
Suuuure! Just like Linux is kicking Win/Mac butt! (Score:3, Insightful)
A small problem (Score:2)
It was a hacker's device, and far from "just working". I love playing with toys and getting things to work, but not my MP3 player. I just want it to start when I hit start, and play some music.
When the player doe
What about the problem of content (Score:2)
They must open everything (Score:2)
Possibly, strike for uniqueness and ITMS support! (Score:2)
One thing it needs to be is different and bold, not bland and sucky like every other non-iPod media player out there today (sorry non iPod owners but I've used other devices and they just are not as nice in any way that I (or most people) care about). Come up with some really original UI ideas, as a for-instance although I know hardware changes are not really on the table what about accellerometers controlling things like volume? Think of som
Seems like a good idea but... (Score:2)
I'm still not saying thi
Not intended to kill the iPod (Score:4, Interesting)
Anyway, I'm on the list for a board when they become available; and I am listening to the Eels on my 442 right now. For an MP3 device, the interface is not impressive but the playback is; as a portable video device, it's tre cool.
Neuros outweight iPod by far... (Score:3, Interesting)
Neuros (40G):
136.1 x 78 x 26.5
325g
Ipod (60G):
103,5 x 61,8 x 14
157 g
iRiver and Rockbox (Score:3, Informative)
Another great thing is that I can (and have) dive into the source if I want to tweak something, like a default or a level multiplier.
The Appliance Factor (Score:3, Interesting)
For the past 20 years, the home computer (Mac, PC, or other) has gone from a geeky little gadget to a household necessity. The success of the Win-Tel marketshare owes most of its success to the price point to help ensure its status as ubiquitous. Windows PCs are everywhere on the planet--look at your security logs if you're not completely convinced. They nearly drove the Mac to extinction and succeeded in killing off OS/2, BeOS, Amiga, etc. into obscurity. But there was always the promise of the next version finally being better and bug free.
Lately, though, as gadgets have become more sophisticated and easier to use, the computer has actually become the stop gap between people and their digital bliss. Along comes Apple with its iPod--and applicance that does one thing very easily. It's a success.
I don't think Apple's status as a giant corporation with marketing power is the deal breaker--if that were true, the Mac would be much more prominent. I think the simplicity and product design is what consumers want.
The only people I ever hear bitch about the iPod are geeks who aren't afraid of buttons or Ogg/Vorbis.
There's something to be said about the computer and its peripherals being marketed as appliances. I think that's what most people want--a simple push-a-button Jetson's world that doesn't require tinkering or tweaking.
So, if the Open Source community wants to build a better iPod, they'd better figure out a way to beat the iPod on the simplicity front because 80% of the players purchased out there don't seem to care about the price point or features slashdotters bitch about.
Pod Wars (Score:3, Funny)
2005
GnomePOD!, no Kpod!
GnomePOD....Kpod
GnomePOD...Kpod
no enlightenPod v.17 dammit!!
how about GNUpod?
2006-2010
repeat
2011
repeat....only enlightenPod is now at v.18
Can Open Source Outdo the IPod? (Score:3, Insightful)
(...checking open source user interfaces screenshots...)
No.
Re: Can Open Source Outdo the IPod? (Score:2)
Re:Open source on a PMP - Done (Score:2)
Re:Open source on a PMP - Done (Score:3, Insightful)