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Wireless Networking Communications Handhelds Hardware

Enthusiast Hacks WiFi Into Treo 650 242

Posted by timothy from the good-deeds-to-punish dept.
Sammy at PalmAddict writes "Shadowmite, a Palm enthusiast has managed to hack his Palm One Treo 650 smartphone, enabling it to work with the Palm One WiFi card, despite Palm admitting the Treo was never designed to use WiFi technology. Shadowmite managed to get his hands on the Pa1m One WiFi card and modify it so that his Treo 650 could use it. The experiment was a success, and is causing quite a stir -- putting pressure on Palm One to provide support and fully support the new drivers."
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Enthusiast Hacks WiFi Into Treo 650 More

Enthusiast Hacks WiFi Into Treo 650

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  • What? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by mg2 ( 823681 ) on Monday January 03, 2005 @11:37PM (#11251317)
    So, if I somehow shoved a Gamecube network adapter onto my N64, Nintendo would need to provide full support for it?

    I don't think so.
    • No, since gamers and customers are two different things. Gamers keep coming back (depending on how much they like the franchise). Customers have choice for different (and functionally identical) devices
    • Sure, Gamecube isn't doing nearly as well as Playstation, but they've got their niche. Palm, on the other hand, is losing marketshare rapidly to Windows Palm PCs, which means Palm is vulnerable, and will latch onto good PR and do more to avoid bad PR.
    • The pressure to support it does not come from some kind of moral obligation for the corporation to support its product. Palm, after all, climbed to the top of the PDA biz partly by opening its platform to a vast array of 3rd-party apps, none of which are supported by Palm in any way (except perhaps through Palm's distribution of the SDK and developer support). Palm, like and successful business, responds only to warranty obligations, and compelling interest in keeping its customers. "The customer is always

  • Still waiting (Score:4, Funny)

    by dsginter ( 104154 ) on Monday January 03, 2005 @11:44PM (#11251359)
    I'm still waiting for my non-cellular Wifi walkie-talkie. Just imagine the possiblities... Like IM for voice...

  • Why do wireless carriers not support features? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by frdmfghtr ( 603968 ) on Monday January 03, 2005 @11:48PM (#11251367)
    Somewhat OT...

    This brings up a question I want to ask T-Mobile.

    My BlackBerry 7100i can be used as a wireless GPRS modem connected to my notebook via the USB cable. It works; I *know* it works, because:

    (1) I've read the forums where people tell how they got it to work (after getting T-Mobile to unblock some ports); and

    (2) I've done it to send/receive e-mail via Outlook when I enable their t-zones service.

    Now for the question:

    When the products the carriers promote have these capabilities, why do they not support them? I would be willing to pay for the service if T-Mobile would admit that it works and support it. If a Treo 650 can handle WiFi, that's a selling point and likely to result in more sales.

    • Re:Why do wireless carriers not support features? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Col. Klink (retired) ( 11632 ) on Monday January 03, 2005 @11:52PM (#11251397)
      > If a Treo 650 can handle WiFi, that's a selling point and likely to result in more sales.

      But the people selling the devices are really selling cellular service. If you can use WiFi, you can use VoIP for free rather than the cellular minutes. It has been alleged that it was Sprint that explicitly asked PalmOne to not provide WiFi drivers for the Treo 650.
      • Sprint is a bunch of dickheads (tm). I bought a nokia 3585 to replace my 3588... The 3588 and 3585 are supposed to be *identical* except for the color screen (which I dont give a crap about).

        I get the 3585 home and discover theyve disabled *ALL* the text messaging features, the Java VM, even the ability to select rings for different callers...

        Anyone want to go on a killing spree with me?

        • Re:Why do wireless carriers not support features? (Score:5, Interesting)

          by Jarnis ( 266190 ) on Tuesday January 04, 2005 @02:03AM (#11251876)
          Why buy subsidized crap phones?

          In Finland carriers can't subsidize phones, as by law it's illegal to tie the phone and the subscription. If you offer a phone, the price and terms of sale must be same with or without subscription to any service, so you can't tie the two.

          So phone manufacturers sell their phones. More features = more sales. They don't have to bend over for the carriers - they are not their customers. So if carrier would prefer that the phone doesn't have WiFi... well, tough, they don't have a say in it.

          And we have pretty damn cheap airtime, as the only way carriers can compete for customers is by offering a good cheap product - they can't just toss a cooler phone free, tied to some stupid package that appears cheap, but ties you to one operator for x months (or years).

          Sure, phones cost money. Shocker. Feature rich phones cost a lot of money. Double shocker. At the same time your phonebill isn't used to subsidize someone elses shiny new phone used to lure him to the crappy service that you are stuck with.
          • I'd love it if we could buy phones like that here, but unfortunately, there are so many BS lockouts and incompatibilities that if you purchase a phone elsewhere, you really don't know whether it will work with your cellular provider or not. There's no question in my eyes that something needs to be done about it, but try to tell that to the people who can actually make a difference. A) they don't care, B) they're probably making money from the current system so good luck getting them to change it.

          • Re:Why do wireless carriers not support features? (Score:4, Interesting)

            by bgarcia ( 33222 ) on Tuesday January 04, 2005 @08:06AM (#11252725) Homepage Journal
            Why buy subsidized crap phones?
            Why? Because they'll give me 5 brand new phones with 1 year of service, and they'll pay me for it, year after year!

            This year, I ordered 5 Sony Ericsson T610's from Amazon with T-Mobile service. I paid $50 for each phone, and there was $250 in rebates available for each phone. I put them all on a family plan for $80/mo. Then I sold the phones themselves on ebay (I kept the 5 Motorola phones that I got in a similar deal last year).

            The math works out like this:

            +$250 (5 phones @ $50 ea.)
            +$175 (5 x $35 activation fee)
            +$960 (12 mo x $80/mo for a family plan w 5 phones)
            +$228 (~$19 in taxes/fees per month, x 12)
            -$1250 ($250 in rebates per phone, x 5)
            -$500 (sell all 5 phones on ebay, make $100 on each)
            --------------------
            Total: get paid $137.

            Plus I get another year of service for 5 phones! Subsidized crap phones are the only reason why I can even afford a mobile phone.

            • Re:Why do wireless carriers not support features? (Score:2, Interesting)

              by Anonymous Coward

              The T610 is gone now because it's a piece of shit (I work for a T-Mobile Indirect...). We de-stocked them because they were always being returned due to poor reception. It was a neat little phone (except for the mostly useless QVGA camera) but the reception killed it.

              (Posting Anonymously because of this...) I hope you got your rebates back before you sold the T610s. T-Mobile USA has started making sure the SIM you put down the phone as using is actually being used with that IMEI or else they don't issue t

      • This is why I am holding off getting a 650 until TMobile has them. TMobile has an excellent history in terms of supporting "real" unlimited data transfer, fully supporting the features of various phones and devices (like the Sidekick, various PCMCIA cell modems, etc).

        To clarify, I mean supporting in terms of "the features work"... I have no idea what their phone techs are like.

        --
        Evan

        • Comment removed based on user account deletion
          • You either need to see a therapist or really take a break from technology. You appear to be *way* too emotionally invested in this issue.

            Regardless of their treatment of that particular model, they do appear to be significantly better in general than Sprint or Cingular/AT&T, which are my only other two options. My focus is getting a good phone with good coverage and unlimited bandwidth of dialup speeds or better (obviously faster is better, but dialup is sufficient for my needs).

            Honestly, my town is

        • Um....no. The unlimited GPRS was a LOOPHOLE. It was never meant to be free. Unlimited GPRS is 19.99 a month.
          • I never said anything was supposed to be free. I'm happy paying for it. However, if you use your device as a bluetooth modem and exceed "normal usage" (defined as a few hundred k a day), Sprint can and often will shut your service off. TMobile doesn't. That's a big difference between both of their paid "unlimited" plans.

            --
            Evan "Never even heard of the Loophole"

    • When the products the carriers promote have these capabilities, why do they not support them?

      Probably because the marketing department often likes to rush features into promotion that the engineering department doesn't yet have ready for production.
    • If they're not willing to support it, at least they should release the specs (under NDA to some select companies, if PHBs are worried about IP) to a third party (or parties) and let them do the support, troubleshooting, customer service, etc.

      My guess? The decision-makers at these phone companies are old geezers from the Ma Bell days; when the phone company was a monopoly and could do whatever they pleased.

      Take a look at ATT's stock price and market share; the same thing is going to happen to these vendo

    • I don't know what the deal is with the Blackberry but I regularly do this with SonyEricsson T610. It dials and becomes a modem for my PalmOS device. So using your T-Mobile phones as GPRS modem is supported. You probably want to check out any other technical issues you might have such as whatever OS you have detecting the USB connected phone as a modem, etc.

  • Voip (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Michael Hunt ( 585391 ) on Monday January 03, 2005 @11:49PM (#11251371) Homepage
    It would be nice, now, if somebody wrote some SIP software that could take advantage of this hack. A Treo would make a sexy as hell cordless phone, which presumably would then be able to roam onto GPRS/GSM if and when the wifi network is unavailable.

  • The only 'pressure' is $$$ (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 03, 2005 @11:50PM (#11251380)
    putting pressure on Palm One to provide support and fully support the new drivers.

    I have a fully functional Handspring/VisorPhone unit. At the point where the new treos offer something more (802.11) then I will consider paying $500+ for new hardware.

    It is palm's loss. At the point where I have VOIP and 802.11 working everwhere else will I look to make a change. If Palm does not have a solution, I WILL jump to Windows CE or Sybian.

    I left the Newton to Palm....I can leave Palm.

  • War-walking (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Indy Media Watch ( 823624 ) on Monday January 03, 2005 @11:50PM (#11251385) Homepage
    Pressed to your ear, this would be the most innocent looking wireless sniffer yet (if someone can get it to run as one).

  • The cost of the unit will have to go up if you want the support.

    I've got a few pieces of hardware that still work, but doesn't have support in Windows XP. No practical reason for it, but the hardware was inexpensive and purchased maybe a year before XP came out. The cost was based on the level of support the companies anticipated providing, so good equipment becomes paperweights with a system upgrade.

    Don't buy cheap and expect more than you pay for. This was a clever hack but I'm sure Palm sells stuf

    • I'm sure Palm sells stuff with WiFi for a little more than the Treo 650 goes for

      They do, but it's a PDA, not a phone (or a really crappy phone in some cases). That's why they bought the Handspring Treo.

      Besides being a cute hack, this does actually fill a void in the product line.

    • Re:Although it could be argued they should do this (Score:5, Insightful)

      by GrouchoMarx ( 153170 ) on Tuesday January 04, 2005 @12:17AM (#11251526) Homepage
      This was a clever hack but I'm sure Palm sells stuff with WiFi for a little more than the Treo 650 goes for.

      OK, so you don't know what you're talking about. palmOne (there is no such company as "Palm" anymore, hasn't been for a year) sells exactly ONE model with integrated Wi-Fi, the Tungsten C. They also support Wi-Fi on 3 other models via their Wi-Fi SD card, which is an imperfect solution. (It takes up the card slot.) The Treo 650 price varies with the carrier, but is typically in the $500-$600 rage or up. It's NOT a cheap product.

      Meanwhile, most new Dell PPCs and HP PPCs come with Wi-Fi now, and the PPC world is now being inundated with variants on the BlueAngel/Harrier design: Bluetooth, GSM/GPRS, AND Wi-Fi. All three wireless types in one fairly nice handheld. (Still uses Windows Mobile, which bites, and it's not against-the-face-friendly, but it's still a good device.)

      Your point about "don't buy cheap and then complain" is valid, but has nothing to do with this issue. The Treo 650 is NOT cheap, it's a top-shelf product. Other products in similar price ranges all have Wi-Fi. You're NOT getting what you paid for here, that's what people are upset about.

      (That said, I still want to get a GSM/EDGE Treo 650 when it comes out. The lack of Wi-Fi is just annoyingly stupid.)
      • Wait, the box says its got WiFi and when its opened and turned on it doesn't?

        Then there's a good damn reason to be pissed off. You didn't get what you paid for.

        But I suspect you're saying that the fact that you didn't get a feature that wasn't claimed to be in the product means you didn't get what you paid for just because other products in the price range have it?

        Well shit, I'm going to sue Dodge because my $30k truck didn't come with navigation, traction control, front ABS, side curtain airbags, an MP3

    • Re:Although it could be argued they should do this (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Cajun Hell ( 725246 ) on Tuesday January 04, 2005 @06:50AM (#11252508) Homepage Journal
      I'm sure Palm sells stuff with WiFi for a little more than the Treo 650 goes for.
      Nope. The fact is, when you get right down to it, the product that everyone wants, simply isn't on the market. At any price.

  • free minutes! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by TheSHAD0W ( 258774 )
    I wonder the Treo 650 has software access to the mic and earpiece? If it does, you could use a WiFi card to connect it to a VoIP service, bypassing the normal wireless rate structure...

  • Fark Palm (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Ratbert42 ( 452340 )
    Drivers for Wifi SDIO cards on Palms like the Zire 71 are held up because of licensing issues. Translation: they don't want to undercut their expensive models. Ok, I'll buy a Pocket PC then.

    • Re:Fark Palm (Score:3, Informative)

      by TheGratefulNet ( 143330 )
      the pocket pc is the most unstable POS I've ever seen in a handheld.

      feh.

      I have an ipaq that I use for wireless web control of devices. it works - but if you look at it the wrong way, you must soft reset.

      its not a 3finger salute, but it needs to be done just as often ;(

      • If you've got a 3xxx or 5xxx series PDA, that's when you install Familiar Linux [handhelds.org] onto it. Once I stopped fucking with shit I ought not to be fucking with (the "Geee, let's see what this will do" syndrome), the only resets I've had to do are when letting the battery empty on accident. Rock-solid, and binary-compatible with Debian for ARM, and Sharp Zaurus software (GUI software for the Zaurus requires the Opie qt-based environment). Haven't missed anything from WinCE at all on my iPaq 3800.

        • Ah, but with PPC you can run Skype. There is no ARM Skype for Linux. Now with wifi or GPRS connectivity on a treo, Skype would really rock.
        • sadly, I have a 2200. not much serious linux on that one yet. just not yet.

          its a GREAT piece of hardware. that's why I bought it.

          its just that wince sucks.

          (btw, are they still using wince in the bmw 7-series?)

  • Download link (Score:4, Informative)

    by Uneasysilence ( 784183 ) * on Tuesday January 04, 2005 @12:04AM (#11251456)
    http://www.uneasysilence.com/index.php?p=1719 Skip the digging and get it now...

  • Greedy Carriers (Score:5, Insightful)

    by blowhole ( 155935 ) on Tuesday January 04, 2005 @12:04AM (#11251458)
    It seems to me that the common thread in mobile device deficiencies is not the hardware or software companies, but rather the cell phone carriers. They are the perennial pessimists when it comes to new technologies, myopic in their fears that a handful of geeks will bring their business crashing down. Instead of embracing and developing them into new and exciting money-making, experience-enriching features, they castrate their own products solely in order to frustrate users. Swap castrate and frustrate freely in the previous sentence.

    Imagine 10 years ago if a cell phone carrier told Motorola that their new cell phones were "way too small, anyone could just carry this around in their pocket. What will happen to our public telephone branch?! We have too much invested in the current infrastructure!"
    • but what about Loom?

    • Re:Greedy Carriers (Score:5, Insightful)

      by blamanj ( 253811 ) on Tuesday January 04, 2005 @12:56AM (#11251686)
      It's not to frustrate users, it's to gouge users. Unfortunately, this kind of thing happens all the time.

      For instance, I worked at Intel in the early 80s. Intel invested a lot in development tools, compilers, assemblers, etc. It was the de facto leader in the technology. They sold their tools on their own platform, for which they charged about $25K.

      When the IBM PC came out, all the software geeks said, "Hey, let's port this great software to the IBM PC, and think of all the developers we'll get." Intel management said, wait, if we do that we'll only make a couple hundred a shot for a compiler rather than $25K a shot for a development system. No way.

      End result, Borland and others (and eventually Microsoft) introduced software that ran on the IBM PC and development system sales crashed anyway. Not only that, but now no one even bought Intel's software.

      Moral: You can buy some short-term profit, but screwing your customers is a bad strategy long-term.
      • If it was just the cell phone companies then devices like the Tungsten 2 would support the WiFi card, and not just a handful of devices.

        This isn't about the Cell Phone companies, this is about Palm trying to force users to buy more expensive hardware to get the "built-in" wi-fi support. the only reason there is a Palm Wi-Fi card that has even minimal device support is because they're giving a slight nod to customer demand.

        They have purposely refused to release drivers to let the Wi-Fi card work on lower
      • That's part of what led to the downfall of iRMX (Intel real-time operating system). We ended up porting all of our Pascal code to Kylix to reduce costs of hardware and software. You just gotta love capitalism when it's allowed to work.
  • that some hellspaw^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hlawyer will come up with some sort of DMCA excuse to go after this person?
  • I have been following this site the last few months and they seem to be on top of all the cool little do it yourself hacks/tweaks coming out these days for electronics. http://www.hackaday.com/ [hackaday.com]

  • palmOne - going down the tubes (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Silicon_Knight ( 66140 ) on Tuesday January 04, 2005 @12:54AM (#11251675)
    Palm is VERY quickly losing my respect with the way they treat their customers.

    I started out with a Handspring Visor, my girlfriend has a Palm 3 series PDA. Almost all my friends and family uses Palm PDAs. That said, my Palm T3 will most likely be the last Palm PDA that I'll buy.

    Started out with me purchasing my Nokia 6820 video phone in Asia - naively thinking that, "Hey, it's bluetooth, it'll be supported". It took almost half year after that phone's release before Palm would release drivers for it in their phone update - but, the drive only works as a modem driver. SMS and remote dialer apps for the phone isn't support. It *is* supported fully for the Palm T5 though.

    Side by side comparison the T5 really isn't that much different from the T3 - minor tweaks in OS, faster processor and more memory. But what if I were to upgrade to the T5?

    Forget it. I'd be ditching the "Collapsing PDA" feature that makes the T3 small and compact to carry, the silent, vibrating alarm for when you don't want to be obnoxious, the voice recorder functionality. I gain the ability to use the PDA as a flash drive, which I already own a few, and can add into the PDA via 3rd party software. They tossed out the Palm Universal Port which up till now most accessories use, as a standardized interface to the PDA - and for a top of the line product, the damn thing doesn't even come with a cradle.

    What the hell are they thinking?

    With the improvement of Pocket PC handhelds - and more vendors resulting in more selections - I'd have a hard time justifying purchasing another Palm PDA.

    -=- Terence

  • Sprint's Vision Service (Score:3, Informative)

    by st3v ( 805783 ) on Tuesday January 04, 2005 @01:20AM (#11251756)
    Sprint doesn't want the Treo 650 to have the WiFi features since they want you to subscribe to the $15/mo Vision (CDMA 1xRTT) service. It might cost more per month for PDA phones.

    Sprint especially doesn't want people to connect their phones to a PC or laptop through a USB cable or Bluetooth, because they want you to pay $80/mo for the unlimited wireless internet (Vision) through a PCMCIA card.

    Verizon is even worse since they cripple their phones a lot more. But I still switched to Verizon from Sprint since it gets better reception for me (GSM is horrible over here). But at least Verizon's wireless internet is much more stable than Sprint's was for me. I use USB cables to connect my phone to my laptop to get free wireless internet using my minutes on off-peak hours.
    • I've understood that when you buy a phone subsidized by (say) Verizon, they cripple the shit out of it. But what about when you but it from the full-price?

      Here's my example - I had a handset that came with my contract. Cost me twenty bucks. About a year later, I got drunk at a party and lost it. So I went back to the Rogers store, and wante dto buy another handset, whereupon I was told that since it wasn't the start of the plan I had to pay C$250 for a SonyEricsson T226 - which they called "full price." (B

  • This is pretty old news... (Score:5, Informative)

    by bigtrouble77 ( 715075 ) on Tuesday January 04, 2005 @01:37AM (#11251807)
    We've been discussing this hack over at treocentral for quite a while now. Shadowmite's most impressive accomplishments are the custom roms he developed, stripping much of the crap out and adding a few critical apps (like notepad and DUN support- so you can use the treo as a modem). It's no secret the 650 has some major memory issues and by flashing his bare bones roms you can get rid of buggy apps like versamail and realplayer and instead run 3rd party apps like snapper mail on your sd card. Shadowmite deserves alot of credit for helping make the treo650 a decent product. -BT
  • Why not pick up a Compaq 36xx for 50$, an AirCard for 40$, and GSM/GPRS Sleeve for $100. Total comes in a lot less, than a Treo. "Performance The Compaq iPAQ Wireless Pack enables impressive call and data functionality with a rechargeable 1000mAH integrated battery and Tri-band functionality. Users receive up to 180 hours of standby call time and four hours of talk time on a single charge. The Wireless Pack is a Multi-slot Class 10 data device that provides extensive, reliable, wireless data communication t
    • Because you'd then be tethered to a brick everywhere you go.

      I went through a period of dissatisfaction with my Treo and I did basically the same thing you describe above. It was incredibly inconvenient, to say the least. And, I looked like a total tard.

      My Treo is the best cell phone I've ever had, but it still has a ways to go, imho.
  • putting pressure on Palm One to provide support and fully support the new drivers.

    Oh yes, Sammy. The whole 10 people who've posted on Internet forums claiming to have done this hack will really make those guys at Palm One to feel the pressure. I hear their developers will take time away from profitable projects just so you can hack an old phone.. They would really like to do that instead of selling you a next generation phone. .....!

    No wonder america is in trouble, nobody took economics 101.

  • Unsurprising (Score:3, Informative)

    by clmensch ( 92222 ) on Tuesday January 04, 2005 @02:42AM (#11251964) Homepage Journal
    What do you expect when the carriers subsidize the cost of your phone?

    Perhaps if we had the option to pay less just for the services we want, without giving up our ability to choose any carrier we want, it would balance the slight increases to the cost of the handsets? We'd have more choice, more competition, and more innovation.
  • Is there any wifi SD card with support for Linux?
    I only knew one from Fujitsu [fujitsu.com], but it seem it has been removed for end users.

    Due to tremendous number of inquiries from our System Module Products prospects, Fujitsu will be basically selling the System Module Products to OEM customers only, unfortunately, it will not be available for end-user. Sorry for the inconvenience. Fujitsu appreciates your understanding in advance.

    SD cards [zaragozawireless.org]

  • Palm enthusiast (Score:3, Funny)

    by djupedal ( 584558 ) on Tuesday January 04, 2005 @04:00AM (#11252127)
    ...?

    While I won't go there, I'm sure someone did/will.

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