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Portables Media Music Hardware

More iPod Killers Introduced for the Holiday 264

Posted by CmdrTaco from the stuff-to-lust-after dept.
An anonymous reader writes "MP3newswire.net has just released part III and part IV of their iPod Killers for Xmas list. Standouts are a $1200 24K gold-plated player from Jens of Sweeden, a 137 Gig unit called the Xclef, Sony's first true MP3 player, and iRiver's MPEG-4 video jukebox. If you missed them, here are parts I and II."
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More iPod Killers Introduced for the Holiday More

More iPod Killers Introduced for the Holiday

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  • Kill the killer (Score:5, Insightful)

    by pedestrian crossing ( 802349 ) on Sunday October 31, 2004 @10:58AM (#10678697) Homepage Journal
    Can we do away with the "iPod Killer" thing, it's old. Nothing is going to "kill" the iPod, it has establised itself as the standard for better or worse. It's like the Walkman. In fact, the iPod is the Walkman killer. Nothing that comes out in the short term is going to be an iPod killer.

    • Re:Kill the killer (Score:2, Insightful)

      by caston ( 711568 )
      Well the ipod is very expensive. Eventually a device will come out for about $100 that can store enough gigabyte of music to make it worthwhile carrying around.

      • Re:Kill the killer (Score:2, Insightful)

        by jsebrech ( 525647 )
        But just like with the walkman and the discman, there will be cheaper players, there will be better players, but it will still be the standard that everything is measured by, and that sells consistently well.

    • Flash prices (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Mistlefoot ( 636417 ) on Sunday October 31, 2004 @11:08AM (#10678750)
      When flash eventually becomes cheap enough that I can put my music collection on it I'll consider an alternative. Removing the harddrive from the equation will offer a bit more durability and long term health.

      I really don't see any advantage to buying something other then a 'proven' iPod when all other comparable products will cost the same price.

      Where's the advantage?

    • Re:Kill the killer (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      The iPod and the iTMS have entrenched themselves as the defacto standard of portable music (and music store). I go to The University of Texas at Austin and the campus is saturated with iPods. My estimate is that 80-90% of students with an MP3 player carry an iPod. You can tell because of the headphones... its becoming sort of a status symbol (like the Lance Armstrong - Livestrong wrist bands).

      Other companies *wish* they had an iPod killer because they want a chunk of the media player pie. However, it'

      • Re:Kill the killer (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        The iPod got into the situation because any moron can use iTunes, any moron can use the iPod itself and any moron knows it looks damn good. Nerds such as most slashdotters put looks and out-of-box ease-of-use far down on the priority list (cf. WinXP vs Stage 1 Gentoo install) and this is completely different to the way the common man thinks.

      • Re:Kill the killer (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Tony Hoyle ( 11698 )
        Odd.. must be a US thing.

        I've only met one ipod user, and he got it cheap with a powerbook on educational discount.

        Most other people have the standard 128MB MP3 'sticks' as they're a lot more convenient/cheaper/durable.

        The best one price-wise (which it pretty much the only thing that matters with thise stuff.. it's an MP3 player, it plays MP3s) seems to be the Thompson, at half the cost of the ipod.

        Convenience wise though you'll have to work hard to beat minidisk. Having to plug your player into a PC j
        • Convenience wise though you'll have to work hard to beat minidisk. Having to plug your player into a PC just to change albums gets old really fast.

          Well, convenience also takes a big hit with the Minidisc format. In exchange for being able to change discs on the go, you have to be willing to convert all of your files to ATRAC. As well, you'll have to be willing to either listen to those files using a Sony player while on your computer, or keep around two copies, one in ATRAC and one in your preferred forma
          • Firstly, you don't 'have to keep two copies'. ATRAC is the internal format stored on the disk. You never ever need to deal with it. Just plug the minidisc into the optical out of the sound card or hifi. I tend to go from the hifi as you get better quality that way - PC CD players are universally garbage.

            Once you've recorded it onto disk it's there pretty much forever. New disks are dirt cheap.

            Secondly, the 'normal player' for 99.999% of prople is the CD. You have to convert to MP3 to load into an iP
            • I apologize for the misunderstanding about the ATRAC. I was under the impression, from what I heard, that you had to convert to ATRAC on your computer first, then transfer the converted files to the minidisc.

              Additionally, while the CD may be the normal player for most people, when we're talking about the iPod, etc., we're talking about a market for MP3 players already. People who use CDs are very unlikely to search out an iPod when they don't have a computer. Yes, Minidiscs may work for them, but they're n

    • Re:Kill the killer (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Peyna ( 14792 ) on Sunday October 31, 2004 @11:10AM (#10678766) Homepage
      Nothing that costs 4x as much as the iPod will lead to its demise, but if someone made a very comparable product that cost 1/2 as much, then you might have some good competition at least. All that it would really do is serve to bring the price of the units down, which would be the greatest thing for all of us.

      • Archos was the competition and might be again. (Score:5, Informative)

        by Nomihn0 ( 739701 ) on Sunday October 31, 2004 @12:52PM (#10679357)
        What you are unknowingly referring to are the Archos MP3 hard drive based players. When the iPod 20 came out, I bought an Archos Jukebox 20 Recorder for exactly half the price. Admittedly, it was a tad larger than the Apple which also gets points for style, but since when did geeks begin caring about carrying around the equivalent of e-jewelry? At the time, it was a more than viable alternative. It didn't hurt that the crazies over at Rockbox Firmware [rockbox.haxx.se] (down right now) rewrote the firmware for Archos systems. You can now develop your own apps for the system as well as enjoy total customization of the interface. They've added a "video" extension, a text file reader, and multilingual support, among other things. Now, with the release of the new 20 gb Archos player, even smaller than the iPod and the around the same size as the iPod mini (2.9" x 2.3" x .7") albeit with a larger screen (2"), I am beginning to believe that a new era of iPod competition is being reigned in.

        • Re:Archos was the competition and might be again. (Score:5, Insightful)

          by jht ( 5006 ) on Sunday October 31, 2004 @01:57PM (#10679709) Homepage Journal
          That's sweet and all, but far from an iPod killer - or even much of a competitor, for that matter.

          Geeks may love the Archos - but remember how everybody on Slashdot panned the iPod when it came out? Well, the iPod became a huge hit, and it wasn't because geeks loved it. It was because normal folks (the ones who are 99%+ of the market) saw the ads for it, saw the product, and said "I'll take one, please".

          In other words, the market doesn't care if you can write software for the Archos, or load custom firmware, or change the skins. They don't give a flying fig if it uses MP3, AAC, WMA, or OGG as the standard format. They want their digital music player to work. Period. And by "work", I mean they want the sound to be good, the device to be simple and attractive, and they want the computer software that drives the library to be simple and capable. And until someone hits all those points better than Apple does, iPod will dominate the market.
          • I'd call myself a geek but I bought an iPod for the same reason. It hits the right balance between really easy to use and having a good supply of features.
          • They really are not all that ugly [amazon.com], they just did not have 10's of millions of dollars to spend on an advertising bonanza.
    • Nothing is going to "kill" the iPod

      Used properly, this will. [pricegrabber.com]
    • I wouldn't use an Ipod if they threw it in my face.

      There are so many better mp3 players out there that I just don't understand all the "iPod standard" crap.

      It's to big for a compact player.
      If you don't care about size, but only about capacity there are products that will beat it 4 fold.
      And it's to expensive compared to it's rivals.

      And to top it off: Ipod is to music what MS is to software.

      • Huh? (Score:3, Insightful)

        by FunWithHeadlines ( 644929 )
        "And to top it off: Ipod is to music what MS is to software."

        Whoa, that's some anti-Apple prejudice you got going on there. Let's see, for your statement to be based on facts instead of emotions, Apple would have to be threatening "to cut off the oxygen supply" of companies who sell competing mp3 players, charging companies more money unless they put "works best with iPod" logos on their web sites and catalogs, and actively trying to kill off competing firms.

        Don't confuse market share with predatory pr

    • Re:Kill the killer (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Trurl's Machine ( 651488 ) on Sunday October 31, 2004 @11:44AM (#10678982) Journal
      Can we do away with the "iPod Killer" thing, it's old. Nothing is going to "kill" the iPod, it has establised itself as the standard for better or worse. It's like the Walkman. In fact, the iPod is the Walkman killer.

      With all due respect, sir, you seem to contradit yourself. If iPod cannot be killed because it's like Walkman - and iPod is also a Walkman killer... you can't kill iPod, because it is like something it has killed?

      Personally I think iPod can be killed, precisely because it is like Walkman. But I don't think that Yet Another Digital Music Player will be the iPod killer - I rather think it will be something as different as iPod is different from Walkman. Something based on entirely different technology, allowing - say - on-the-go wireless immediate purchase from online shop with even bigger choice than iTMS.

      PS. I'm a die-hard iPod fan, I bought three of them since the 1st gen; but I also owned several Walkmans...
      • As I understand the original poster, this is what he's saying:

        The Walkman couldn't be killed, because it was so solidified in its paradigm as the standard. The iPod, however, broke that paradigm and replaced it with its own, thereby 'killing' the walkman. Similarly, the iPod is the standard in its paradigm, so until a device sufficiently breaks the paradigm, its going to be hte standard.
    • "More iPod Killers Introduced for the Holiday"

      Blimey, with this many assasins, you'd think the iPod ran BSD or something... whatever happened to the word "competitor"?
    • Can we do away with the "Nothing is going to "kill" the iPod" thing? I knew this thread would be riddled with them and voila...first moderated post. Every MP3 player that gets sold that ISN'T an IpOd is an IpOd killer. IpOds may have the most mind share and thus everyone selling within the market is gunning for them. The term "IpOd killer" is a compliment so know when to be graceful, mac-fan-boy.

      "Nothing that comes out in the short term is going to be an iPod killer." Did a carnival psychic tell you t
    • Just a thought, can anyone think of any product dubbed the 'X kiler' that has actually ever killed product X? I can't? It seems a sure-fire way to ensure the 'killer product' fails.

      Hmmm, there was the IBM 9370 Vax killer, of course - woo, that did well. Not.

      Any other examples?

  • $1200 for 24K? (Score:5, Funny)

    by meringuoid ( 568297 ) on Sunday October 31, 2004 @10:59AM (#10678701)
    ... How much music can you fit in that kind of space? At one meg a minute, typical for MP3, that's... about one and a half seconds. Surely you expect a little more for twelve hundred dollars these days?
  • how any of these are "iPod Killers"... first of all, none of them have killed the iPod. Secondly, some do more, such as playing video, and probably put themselves into a different catigory. Thirdly, a gold played mp3 player is dumb.

    Also, they don't have iTunes or iTMS. Nothing is going to kill the iPod without the whole package.

    and f.p. b-otch.

    • Re:i fail to see... (Score:5, Funny)

      by nomadic ( 141991 ) <nomadicworld@@@gmail...com> on Sunday October 31, 2004 @11:28AM (#10678880) Homepage
      Thirdly, a gold played mp3 player is dumb.

      Don't be ridiculous; if I had an ipod it would just clash horribly with my gold medallions and my extensive collection of gold rings, including that one that goes on all my fingers at once and has my name spelled out in diamonds.

      Some of us have style, man, and that's why we need the gold-plated mp3 players.

    • It's about design... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by JQuick ( 411434 ) on Sunday October 31, 2004 @12:15PM (#10679154)
      Design is more than functionality. Design is more than features. It's not about interface, per se. It's not even (as so many claim) that it's about style in the sense of fashion.

      It's the whole shooting match.

      People who don't grok Apple, don't seem to get that.

      I had a can opener. A manual can opener, that I got for about 5 bucks in the early eighties. A maid accidentally threw it out several years ago. Only when it was gone, did I realize how wonderful it was. I searched off-and-on for months trying to find a suitable replacement. I bought 5 can-openers finding each to be annoying to use.

      I finally bought one that was about half as good from a mail order place in Great Britain (I live in the US). Nobody in the world makes a can opener like what I used to own. It was the right weight, and had a perfect gearing. It gripped the lid, and neatly dropped it in the trash. The balance, texure, and feel were simply superb. If I were an architect or other design geek, I would have realized how good it was long ago. As it was, only by comparison with alternatives did I realize how nice it was.

      The iPod, and other great designs from Apple, exhibit this kind of property.

      If you look at a checklist of features, look at particular aspects of functionality, price, or other attributes in isolation, they do not appear special. Through feel, and through use, they just seem right. As a whole, they simply strike many people as right.

      You're right, gold-plated, mpeg enabled, or cheaper, a true iPod killer would have to have the "whole package".

      What's tricky, is that this requires attention to the details of the design which most people are never actually aware. It will take a great deal to "kill" the iPod.

  • So many ipod killers (Score:5, Funny)

    by Norgus ( 770127 ) on Sunday October 31, 2004 @11:01AM (#10678708)
    Yet the ipod isn't dead!

    I wonder if they got the sack.

  • Argh (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    It's Sweden, and not Sweeden.
    It's Jens's and not Jen's. Jens is a name for crying out loud.

  • $1200 for an mp3 player (Score:5, Funny)

    by jlefeld ( 814985 ) on Sunday October 31, 2004 @11:07AM (#10678744)
    After spending that much money I don't have any money left for legal music.

  • iPod killers! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Peyna ( 14792 ) on Sunday October 31, 2004 @11:08AM (#10678749) Homepage
    Did anyone else get the image of some serial killer known by the name "The iPod Killer" that managed to find someway to turn an iPod into a murderous device?

    If not, I blame Daylight Saving Time. (I just moved from a non-DST state to a DST state.)

  • bonus technology (Score:5, Informative)

    by v1 ( 525388 ) on Sunday October 31, 2004 @11:10AM (#10678761) Homepage Journal
    Anyone else notice on the "Jens of Sweden MP-400", that besides being nicely compact, it's got an OLED (Organic Light Emitting Diodes) display?

    http://www.mp3newswire.net/Graphics/Jens%20MP400 .j pg

  • MPIO (Score:3, Interesting)

    by N8F8 ( 4562 ) on Sunday October 31, 2004 @11:14AM (#10678787)
    I've had an MPIO FL100 since I bought it last christmas. MPIO/Digitalway, the manfacturer, does a better job than most electronics manufactures in updating the firmware. For a craction of a price, at least take a look [mpio.com]. The iPod is a sexy piece of electronics though.
    • Very very English-as-a-second-language:

      Very irresistible, Very luxury, Very you Recognize as a disk without installing anything additional.

      I'm not sure what that means, exactly. But the pictures were very pretty.

  • Sweeden? (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I've never heard of this place called Sweeden . Must be a small town in Canada or something.

  • I've got the DCube on my list.

    maker [nextway.co.kr] UK seller [mp3way.co.uk] SE seller [inwarehouse.se]

  • dammit (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 31, 2004 @11:28AM (#10678882)
    ogg vorbis seems to be becoming a pretty standard feature on these new portables. Now what am I going to complain about.

  • Dupe? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Vicsun ( 812730 ) on Sunday October 31, 2004 @11:29AM (#10678888)
    I remember having read this 'ipod-killer' story before...



    DAMN THOSE EDITORS!!!

  • iPod killer? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Bastian ( 66383 ) on Sunday October 31, 2004 @11:31AM (#10678895)
    Half of these don't even come close to competing with the iPod. The ones that play movies are more in competition with portable DVD players and Game Boys. [gba-video.com] Others just don't look like good buys compared to an iPod or iRiver. (Why am I going to pay $500 for a 1GB player when I can pay half that for a 6GB player that's not much larger?)

    Personally, I think that the thing that really makes the iPod, and which I have failed to see in any competitor, isn't iTMS or iTunes, or the sexy design, or even the fact that you can put a scratch on it by looking at it for too long. It's the interface. Starting with the jog dial (which I haven't seen on anything else. Scroll wheels don't count.) and going to the software UI, I haven't tried out another player that comes close to being as easy to use as an iPod. Heck, the iPod is so much more pleasent to use that I'd gladly take one over a player that sports 20 more GB, costs $100 less, and is HDTV-ready.
    • Before they were bought out and when their support was horrible, Rio had a product out called the "Rio Riot"

      I loved my riot more than I love my iPod.. But the problem with the Riot was that you had to use musicmatch jukebox to transfer music over usb 1.1 and you couldn't use it as a regular external hard drive. Oh, and the low-quality drive they used.

      I love my iPod, though. But I only have it because the Archos I replaced my Riot with died, and best buy let me trade the Archos Jukebox for a 40gb 4G iPo

    • Re:iPod killer? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Have Blue ( 616 ) on Sunday October 31, 2004 @12:20PM (#10679183) Homepage
      The jog wheel hasn't shown up on anything else because Apple patented it.

      The secret to the iPod's success isn't the ITMS, or the sexy design, or any other single feature. It was the way Apple managed to provide all those features at once and link them together in well-thought-out ways.

  • Killer My Butt (Score:5, Insightful)

    by feldsteins ( 313201 ) <scott@@@scottfeldstein...net> on Sunday October 31, 2004 @11:37AM (#10678934) Homepage
    First, all the me-too music players seem to forget a few things. Like the fact that sometimes less really is more. It's not about who has the biggest hard drive, or the biggest screen with the most colors. It's not about who has the most features or even the lowest price. It's about hitting the sweet spot with regard to features, battery life, storage capacity, size and price. None - absolutely none - of these would-be iPod Killers has shown that they understand and can execute based on this principle. (And think back: what made the original Palm a success? Sweet spot. It's that simple.)

    The other thing that is often forgotten about the iPod's success is the fact that it's achieved damned near jewelry-level fashion accessory status. Put away all the jokes about Apple customers being Gucci-wearing fashion slaves. This technology is finally becoming ubiquitous enough to have to adhere to people's sense of taste and style. Like cell phones. Be glad. You want to make an iPod killer? It's going to have to be something people want to be seen with.

    Finally, Apple is in a really enviable position because of their online music store. They were the first ones to implement a DRM scheme that is both tolerable to most purchasers and most copyright holders, as well as providing a first-rate buying experience. The combination of the best portable player and also the best online music store is an almost unbeatable one-two punch. You want an iPod killer? It'll have to interface with a good - no, very good - online music store. One with a proven recipe for success.

    Just because Sony or Dell or iRiver or some other company announces yet-another-little-box-with-ear-buds-dangling-from -it doesn't mean we should start doing the job of their marketing department by tossing around the "iPod killer" label. I guess if we keep throwing this crap against the wall something will eventually stick. But you'll get no points for prognostication from me.

    • Re:Killer My Butt (Score:2, Insightful)

      by sp0rk173 ( 609022 )
      t's not about who has the most features or even the lowest price. It's about hitting the sweet spot with regard to features, battery life, storage capacity, size and price. None - absolutely none - of these would-be iPod Killers has shown that they understand and can execute based on this principle.

      Bullshit. Apple didn't "hit" the sweetspot, they simply marketted their product as having hit the sweetspot, and it worked. For example, the Rio Karma has better playback quality, plays more types of files,

  • WiWJUTSM? (Score:3, Funny)

    by gelfling ( 6534 ) on Sunday October 31, 2004 @11:41AM (#10678959) Homepage Journal
    which iPod would Jesus use to steal music?

  • as seen on everyone (Score:2, Insightful)

    by scottking ( 674292 )
    apple could cut their advertising in half with the amount of articles and discussions their stuff generates.

  • This is what I want (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Wordsmith ( 183749 ) on Sunday October 31, 2004 @11:56AM (#10679061) Homepage
    I've been looking for a while but there doesn't seem to be a player like this ...

    I'm envisioning a CD/MP3 Walkman-style device that can read audio off of burned DVDs. I would have imagined there would be portable DVD-Audio players capable of doing this, but I can't seem to find one.

    THe closest I can find are the portable DVD players that ALSO happen to support dvd-audio and mp3. But these are far bulkier than I'm looking for, and have far shorter battery life.

    I'm thinking a sub-$99 device that could double as a cd walkman, or, with a dvd in it, give me 4.7 gb of mp3s.

    anyone seen anything like that?

    • Re:This is what I want (Score:3, Interesting)

      by zibadun ( 686289 )
      Sony makes one http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2003Sep/con20030 923021241.htm I have one. Too bad it locks up and hangs all the time and cost more like $250. And the little control widget is absolutely useless for managing a DVD full of MP3s. But it's a good start :)
  • The first thing that struck me when I looked at the page, before thinking about all of the competitors lining up to fall at Apple's feet was the photo of the iRiver's MPEG-4 video jukebox.

    The player itself is viewed rotated 20 degrees or so. What happens is that the entire picture, including the black background looks rotated as well. I actually had to scroll and line up the image with the top of my browser window to make sure it was straight. Needless to say, iRiver is trying to win the MP3 market by di
  • the one thing it seems they all still lack is a decent scroll wheel. Do they really think apple owns the patent on this? Scroll wheels have been on keyboard synthesizers for over a decade (certainly long before people had even heard of anything called mp3) The only thing apple did was to make it "laptop stlye" touch scroll. I am suprised no one has tried to use the more "moveing part mechanical style wheel" But maybe that is what I am missing? would it break too easily? Since when has that stopped elect
  • http://www.mp3playersrule.com/ [mp3playersrule.com] Apple is hard to beat for this christmas season. The new small 5GB players from creative and rio will get some attentention.

  • appeal (Score:2)

    by zpok ( 604055 )
    You'd think the iPod'd be dead and gone by now, no?

    Yesterday, I saw the iPod and the mini, and a shitheap of other players. Man, that's an education. It seems you can't discuss taste, well, I happen to disagree, but sheer beautiful simplicity is hard to beat, that's for sure.

    Even more fun: having a salesman show the features. Every time he says "it can do this" you go "OK, show me". No wonder the iPod is still alive and well...
    • The thing that puts me off is how damn cheap the ipods look. They use white casing (gets dirty really easily so it'll look awful after a couple of weeks) and were too cheap to use proper buttons so they used a touchpad instead (touchpads are a personal hate after getting a laptop with one.. ugh!).

  • Rio Carbon (Score:4, Interesting)

    by dchamp ( 89216 ) on Sunday October 31, 2004 @02:02PM (#10679730)
    Odd that none of the 4 articles mention the Rio Carbon [digitalnetworksna.com] mp3 player. I just got one a week ago, and love it. It's a 5gb HD based player, smaller than the iPod Mini with more space, and the battery lasts up to 20 hours. Plus, you don't need to use iTunes / MusicMatch type software (although you can if you want to) - I just plug in the USB 2.0 and copy files to it.

    • Re:Rio Carbon (Score:3, Insightful)

      by EchoMirage ( 29419 )
      I just plug in the USB 2.0 and copy files to it.

      Yet again, you don't get it. Plug it in and copy files to it? Most people don't want to have to work at the file system level to listen to music. iTunes lets them:
      • a) import their CDs
      • b) organize their music
      • c) make playlists
      • d) copy it all to the iPod with a single click

      USB 2.0 might be neat for you, but you're posting on Slashdot. The iPod's audience (normal people) don't care, and would in fact be irritated to have to use the file system. You're member #

  • A portable CD player. I burn CDRs from the MP3s I buy and Rip the CDs I bought into MP3s so I can remix them into a new CDR.

    Costs about $30USD for the portable CD Player.

    It kills the iPod, because I cannot afford an iPod.

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