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Cellphones China

US Officials Doubt the Performance of Huawei's Advanced Chip (yahoo.com) 54

An anonymous reader quotes this report from Bloomberg: The U.S. doubts whether Huawei Technologies Co. can produce the advanced chip in its new smartphone at the scale or performance threshold necessary to meet market demand, a senior Commerce Department official told lawmakers Tuesday. "Neither the performance nor yields may match the market of the device," Thea Kendler, assistant secretary for export administration, said during testimony before a House Foreign Affairs Committee oversight panel.

"Moreover, the semiconductor chip that is inside that phone is a poorer performance than what they had years ago," Kendler said. "So our export controls are meaningful in slowing China's advanced technology acquisition...."

The [U.S. Commerce Department's Bureau of Industry and Security] is under pressure from Republicans to be tougher on Huawei and its chipmaking partner Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corp [or SMIC]. Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Michael McCaul and others have called for the Bureau of Industry and Security to fully cut off both firms from their American suppliers. U.S. Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo told Bloomberg News in a Monday interview that the U.S. will take the "strongest possible" action to protect its national security following the breakthrough, while declining to confirm the existence of an investigation into Huawei or SMIC.

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US Officials Doubt the Performance of Huawei's Advanced Chip

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  • by crunchy_one ( 1047426 ) on Saturday December 16, 2023 @05:23PM (#64086255)
    I cannot think of a better way to foster excellence than to make it a matter of national prestige or perhaps one of national survival. The US is on the right track for pressing the Chinese semiconductor industry to excel. They may not succeed with their current generation of fabs, but they almost certainly will with their next.
    • They may not succeed with their current generation of fabs, but they almost certainly will with their next.

      China couldn't bootstrap ballpoint pens until 2017. [buzzfeednews.com] But even if they are better at fabs than BICs, that's no reason to sell them the rope to hang us.

      • by Anonymous Coward
        You are in effect selling them the rope to hang you by forcing them to excel, previously you had them by the short and curlies with dependence on the US.
      • by Anonymous Coward
        Alternatively China had better things to do and didn't bother with ballpoint pens while bringing 1 billion people out of poverty.
      • BIC pens was not a huge thing for our society or future.

        You can bet that China (government and private sector) is dumping billions of dollars on chip fabs to equal or better TSMC and the rest.

        It may not get there in the next decade, but push China around, it will get there eventually (unless government there collapses, which may stop this push in China)

  • Who asked the Commerce department? I certainly didn't.

    • At least they work for us, not the Chicoms.

      • That is not the point. They aren't a propaganda agency.

        • No, but they are well equipped to answer this question.

    • The House Foreign Affairs Committee oversight panel did

      • And the testimony included no technical data or comparisons whatsoever. It's fluff.

        • Maybe those details aren't really fit for testimony or what they are asking the person to testify about. Maybe they just need an overview of progress to conduct, well, oversight. I can have an aide read up on the technical details. Your personal opinion on it's fluffiness is a different question then who asked for testimony.

          I'll return to the semantics dome now.

    • by Entrope ( 68843 )

      The Commerce Department writes the export controls that are relevant here (the State Department handles export controls for goods and services with potential military use), so they should be evaluating whether the expert controls they wrote are doing what they intended.

  • of course they do . (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Growlley ( 6732614 )
    it's in their own interest to cast doubt.
    • Then show that the performance and yield of the chips can match the market of the device. Prove them wrong, just do it. It's in China's best interest. I won't hold my breath. It's not like it will remain a mystery, either they can and will or they can't or won't.

      • Iâ(TM)m sure China will prove it. The restrictions have weakened when Biden took over, nVIDIA is allowed to sell them the latest and greatest with what basically is a software lock, ASML has been selling them their latest and greatest 3nm node. Iâ(TM)m sure has nothing to do with bag man Hunter and his father sitting together, not holding a grudge and getting millions from China.

        Biden is actively trying to appease the terror state dictatorships of both Iran and Russia with gobs of money and techno

      • you missed the point it may well be the truth in this instance but it is still in the USA interest to throw shade regardless of true or not.
  • It's unlikely I would ever buy a Huawei device in future due to being a citizen of a 5-eyes country but propaganda on both sides could be settled with running these chips through a test suite.

    And if the Chinese aren't prepared to publish said results at this time, temper your anger. There is no need for the political class to spread FUD on, at this moment, vaporware.

    I'm not sure what the point of these articles is other than to generate nationalistic ragebait.

    • It's unlikely I would ever buy a Huawei device in future due to being a citizen of a 5-eyes country

      As a U.S. citizen, Huawei devices are possibly the most appealing to me since the data they inevitably collect has the lowest chances of ending up in yet another unconstitutional spying program of a U.S. intelligence agency. It's especially good if you have absolutely no plans to ever enter, travel nearby, or fly over China.

  • I doubt most of Intel's and AMD's new product claims also. Companies spin, whether in USA or China.

    • I doubt all of Intel's claims. I only doubt AMD's claims that they have got the drivers right this time for sure, nothing up my sleeve.

      The question is, can the Chinese already make high performance chips in volume or is that horse shit? And everyone involved has reason to lie about it.

  • Let's note that all state of the art (3nm) "American" chips such as iPhone processors, NVidia GPUs and AI chips, AMD processors are all in fact manufactured by a Taiwanese company, TSMC, that relies on a Dutch company, ASML for the EUV equipment to make them.

    The only major US company to make it's own processors is Intel, who embarrassingly are still stuck at same 7nm node size that Huawei are reporting here.

    So basically when hit with sanctions the most we can do it retard China into making American quality

  • The real reason the USA is restricting exports & putting other trade restrictions on China is simply a trade war because US law makers are afraid of free market capitalism. They've made this absolutely clear now. It's got nothing to do with national security, hidden spy chips, or anything like that. It's purely anti-competitive.
    • by CAIMLAS ( 41445 )

      Nothing economic involving China even approaches "free market" or "capitalist".

      It's a totalitarian government with state-run and state-funded industry. The companies operate in a "competitive" fashion, but don't confuse that with capitalism. It has a closer resemblance to fascist economics, which were very effective in WWII for the Axis, and are/were considered (by fascists) as a stepping stone towards "true" communism. Turns out they're fairly effective on their own at economies of scale, too.

      • A terrible, nerdy quote but... "Only a Sith deals in absolutes." I find your lack of nuance, depth, & complexity in understanding economics disturbing.
    • The real reason the USA is restricting exports & putting other trade restrictions on China is simply a trade war because US law makers are afraid of free market capitalism. They've made this absolutely clear now. It's got nothing to do with national security, hidden spy chips, or anything like that. It's purely anti-competitive.

      I certainly think elements of this are true. Yet given China's active meddling in (e.g. Foxcon) and public threats of war against Taiwan during their elections it does not seem reasonable to assume it is purely anti-competitive.

Never ask two questions in a business letter. The reply will discuss the one you are least interested, and say nothing about the other.

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