MS Design Lets You Put Batteries In Any Way You Want 453
jangel writes "While its strategy for mobile devices might be a mess, Microsoft has announced something we'll all benefit from. The company's patented design for battery contacts will allow users of portable devices — digital cameras, flashlights, remote controls, toys, you name it — to insert their batteries in any direction. Compatible with AA and AAA cells, among others, the 'InstaLoad' technology does not require special electronics or circuitry, the company claims."
What to work on next. (Score:5, Funny)
Thats one of lifes great problems solved. Any chance they can work on Windows stability next?
Bob.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If you have major trouble on XP, you bought a shit computer. That's hardly something you should blame Microsoft for.
Re:What to work on next. (Score:5, Insightful)
Thats one of lifes great problems solved. Any chance they can work on Windows stability next?
Bob.
What, are you kidding? They want a solvable problem to work on!
Re:What to work on next. (Score:5, Funny)
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This is great and will save a lot of confusion, especially in devices that stack batteries between contacts. I think the directions will read something like this: With MS Instaload technology, you can now install batteries any way you like unless your device stacks batteries between contacts. In that situation, make sure that the batteries are all in the same orientation between a given set of contacts, but you have complete and total freedom to orient the battery stacks—not the inidividual batteries
efficiency? (Score:3, Informative)
Except diodes have a foward voltage drop almost as high as a 1.1V battery, so now it would take an extra 2 batteries for a 4 cell device using your "trivial" design.
Besides, no one uses diodes anymore for rectification - that's what fets are for!
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schottky_diode [wikipedia.org]
There's also Germanium diodes with a forward voltage drop of about 0.2V. That might still be too much as a typical bridge has to pass current through 2 of them though. I suppose you could then use a boost converter, but that all seems quite wasteful.
Pretty proud, eh? (Score:4, Funny)
They even made a logo for it. http://www.windowsfordevices.com/images/stories/microsoft_instaload_logo.jpg [windowsfordevices.com]
Neat but not buzzword or logo worthy.
Re:Pretty proud, eh? (Score:5, Insightful)
They even made a logo for it.
So instead of just paying attention to whether the batteries are in correctly, they'll have to first pay attention to whether the device matters which way that batteries go.
Re:Pretty proud, eh? (Score:4, Insightful)
An actual patent (Score:5, Insightful)
For once, we're hearing about an authentically clever, afaik new physical design which solves a real problem and is actually sanely applicable to be patented. I wasn't expecting that when I clicked on this story. Gotta hand it to Microsoft for this one.
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"solves a real problem ..." I wouldn't have gone out of my way to call this a real problem. I can see it as a risk mitigator in medical devices and emergency equipment, but beyond that it just adds to the noise that dumbs down the public.
Re:An actual patent (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean really. If you want to go there I'm sure that there are plenty of people competently doing tasks using modern computers that they wouldn't be able to do if all they had was an abacus. So is that dumbing down the public as well?
Re:An actual patent (Score:4, Insightful)
The '+' and '-' symbols on batteries makes children ask about what they are. Before that, all they know is that it's something that "makes things go". When they get even the simplest explanation of polarity, they may get curious and want to learn more. Otherwise, batteries are just a black box that contains a mechanism you can't see and may not think to ask about. It encourages asking questions, because the adult will have to at least explain to the child that if it's inserted the wrong way, bad things can happen. Probably the most common question from a child (well, most kids) is in the form of "why is _something_ the way it is?". Just having a bit of additional information on this otherwise tightly-sealed "thing" draws questions. Remove that and the need to ask the question goes away.
So, technically, this does have the potential of causing some "dumbing down". But then, solving all sorts of problems leads down this path.
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The '+' and '-' symbols on batteries makes children ask about what they are.
This is where USPTO comes to the defence of civilization. Some electronics manufacturers will not be able to afford a license on this Microsoft Patent. So their battery would need to be placed in the correct orientation. So children would ask - "Why do batteries need to be placed this way in this device but works any which way in the other device?"
Such a question would not only enable you to teach electrical engineering to the said children, but you could also go on a long and cathartic rant about patents a
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Well, computers HAVE dumbed down the public. When I was young and computers took entire buildings to house [kuro5hin.org], people knew the difference between their, there, and they're. Now that we have the internet and spell checkers, nobody knows how to spell or use an apostrophe correctly. We used to not have calculators, and did all our math with pencil and paper (some of us used slide rules). A lot of folks growing up with calculators and computers couldn't compute without them. Cash registers didn't use to tell you h
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Whenever reading something like this, I cannot help wondering which company they bought the solution from.
It's certainly a clever design, and even if they bought it elsewhere that was a very good decision. Which, if technology blogs are anything to go by, are
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Dude, they employ thousands of the smartest CS people in the United States. That might not translate into products you like, but fucking try to acknowledge a little reality through the smell of your own farts.
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Yes, I'm all for Microsoft dropping this stupid software business stuff and fully invest into battery container research!
Re:An actual patent (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, but unfortunately Slashdot has still mostly jumped on it as an opportunity to slag off Microsoft.
Sure this may not be ground breaking, but if Microsoft can take it mainstream then why slag them off for it? as simple as it may be, the fact remains that no one else has bothered to take it mainstream yet.
It's not just about the ingenuity or difficulty of inventing a device, but in taking it to the greater market, there's no point inventing the most complex amazing thing ever if no one actually ever gets chance to make use of it. So this is where the real test is- whether Microsoft manage to take it mainstream and hence whether we all do get to benefit from it in the long run.
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Say what you will about MS software, but I've only heard good things about MS hardware - mice and keyboards and all that.
Doesn't keep me from wanting to file off the MS logo on my gear, but whatever.
Great! (Score:2)
So, since Microsoft designed it, if the battery-powered device does not work anymore, we can fix it by simply removing the batteries and inserting them again...
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"Your batteriy is not a Genuine Microsoft Battery"...*Pzzzzzt!*...Blue Smoke Of Death
Now if only... (Score:5, Funny)
Now if only someone could invent something that would stop my wife putting non-rechargable batteries in my charger and blowing them up. She said it was an accident... I just think she likes the explosions.
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I just think she likes the explosions.
Mr. Bay, is that you?
Re:Now if only... (Score:5, Funny)
How is she getting through so many batteries??
This is best invention from Microsoft ever. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This is best invention from Microsoft ever. (Score:5, Informative)
It's probably as cheap to make as regular battery contacts.
It won't be, it requires more peices of material in the contacts themselves (twice as many contacts plus an extra insulating peice) and more wiring (since you have to take both the positive and negative leads to both ends of each battery slot).
BTW you can make contacts that protect against damge from backwards insertion far simpler (and i've seen them in equipment) just by shaping the plastic right at the positive end (basically you put the positive contact inside a slot so the flat negative end can't touch it). The only advantage of these new contacts over that style is that they allow things to work both ways round.
Just hope it is as reliable as normal contacts.
Indeed I have two main concerns with this
1: reliability, how long will these fancy contacts last.
2: failure modes, when normal battery contacts fail they tend to fail by just not making good contact, they can then be cleaned, bent back into shape etc. This thing looks like it could easilly fail in a way that shorts out the battery and looks like it would be difficult to fix poor contacts without ruining the mechanism.
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This is the most brilliant invention Microsoft has ever come up with.
Saddening, isn't it?
"something we'll all benefit from?" (Score:2)
".... something we'll all benefit from. The company's patented design ...."
Something's wrong there.
".... something MICROSOFT will benefit from. The company's patented design ..."
There. Fixed it for you.
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".... something MICROSOFT will benefit from. The company's patented design ..."
Just because somebody wins doesn't mean somebody else has to lose. If I want to quickly swap out the rechargeable batteries in my camera so I can take a few more shots, then I win also. I may pay a little more for the privilege, but if it's worth it to me, I've lost nothing.
Also cool (Score:2)
I think this is a nice feature. What also surprised me as pretty cool: My Logitech mouse operates with two AA batteries, but if you want to reduce the weight, it works with only one. Great!
A better design (Score:2)
One problem tho.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Users will be looking at these abiguos contacs and not be able to figure out which way to insert their batteries.
(No it doesn't help that any way will do if the user doesn't know it.)
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Presumably the user will just jam the batteries in whichever way they please in their frustration and.. hey presto, it works.
I suppose a more serious side-effect would be that they might start thinking this holds true for -any- battery compartment, and subsequently kill their device.
Re:One problem tho.. (Score:4, Interesting)
So we have a slightly more expensive, rather fragile-looking, patented way to make it possible for people to put batteries in the wrong way.
Ok, so this might - possibly - be used in some devices. Probably expensive ones. And they'll have big signs saying "Put the battery in any way" and this will go well until a) the battery gets a bit of corrosion and they try to clean the contacts, at which point they will short things out and the device will melt, or b) they use another device where they put the batteries in the wrong way - and the device won't work.
So we now have a situation where you have to examine a battery connection in every device even more closely to see which way the battery goes. It might be + or a - or either will do.
Actually, I don't think this is an improvement.
It LOOKS like an improvement - but it's not. It add a further level of complexity.
So Microsoft have taken a standard system that has existed for a very long time, and modified it to make it a) fragile, b) patentable, and c) more expensive (more contacts, more wiring), not to mention d) less reliable (and battery contacts are already unreliable - oh for the days of PP9s - now THOSE were good properly gendered contacts).
Great.
I don't want one. I can tell a spring from a contact. It's not too hard even with my eyesight. But a funny hermaphrodite thing as a third option? Now that's confusing. (Anyone remember those weird hermaphrodite connection used by IBM token ring? No? - I thought not).
Re:One problem tho.. (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm here to tell you, I think this is a good idea. I like the design. See, my wife is generally quite smart. She's got BAs in chemsitry and biology and a MS in forensic science and she still can't put batteries in the WiiMote correctly. I make electronics, and if there's any way, however improbable, to hook things up wrong, my customers will find that way. If this connection works half as well as advertised, it'll be fantastic. I'm sure MS can dig up statistics about what percentage of their tech support calls are from people who put the batteries in backwards. And I'd bet that that number is high enough that someone sat down and said, "we need to find a better way of dealing with batteries".
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
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You are stupid one here. Why assume dumbproofness when you can just think of it as the fulfillment of an incomplete design ? I can think of multiple situations where quickly swapping batteries without looking would be awesome.
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I can think of multiple situations where quickly swapping batteries without looking would be awesome.
Only if you are a woman...
Re:Do You Think... (Score:5, Insightful)
So when I'm outside at night I'm stupid because I can't read the polarity "written" by embossing the black plastic my device is made of?
Re:Do You Think... (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, obviously. A stupid person will try to read the embossed symbols. A smart person remembers which way the empty batteries she just removed were oriented.
Badly designed devices is the problem (Score:3, Interesting)
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...that someone who is too stupid to put a battery in the correct way round probably shouldn't be using an electronic device in the first place?
There needs to be an equivalent "Godwin Law" for the slashdot mentality to blame the user for being stupid.
It would be something like, "You are only authorized to operate a computer if you are deemed smart enough by a slashdot member with a 5-digit or lower id". Because only smart people benefit from the use of computers and electronics. Got it.
More idiot proofing (Score:2)
How about doing a good job in O/S business ? (Score:2)
Nice concept .. but (Score:2)
I can see how this works with the mechanical differences of each end of a battery, but I'm not sure how this system will age. With the current treatment of battery terminals you eventually get to the point of having to bend the tabs in order to get good battery contact. As a mechanical solution this type of failure mode will also occur with the MS solution. However before if gets to that point I can see that there is a new failure mode that can occur. With just enough bending I can see the end cap of a
Battery location for morons (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps Apple should patent their 'batteries not changeable by yourself because you are morons' system too.
The classic solution looking for a problem (Score:3)
This will be a patented technology that will simply be ignored. I'll admit that on occasion I find it cumbersome to get the batteries in right, but for crying out loud! This is ridiculous.
Life needs these little challenges. Let's put it this way: it is well known that people who retire to a life of leisure don't typically live long after working their whole lives. When people stop using their muscles, their bodies turn to mush. And when things are too easy, people stop thinking as much and their minds turn to mush. Life without challenges is life that won't live long.
Okay, so that's the big picture. The smaller picture is where this stupid battery invention comes in.
And besides that, this only works with those types of cells. How about those coin and button cells that typically stack on one another to produce the voltage to power a TTL device? And beyond that, batteries have apparently, in spite of my personal resistance and preaching to the contrary, have gone to being non-removable for all of the most important and expensive devices. Where does this fit in any more? In wireless mice and remote controls? That's just about it these days.
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Heh, I agree. But I think you're looking at the wrong problem.
Yeah, this won't help fix stupid people. But hopefully it will slightly reduce the number of times stupid people call you up and ask them to fix their mouse / flashlight / TV remote.
Sure, they'll just come up with other things to bug you about. Buy those people tasers ;-)
Put Batteries In Any Way??? (Score:2)
But seriously: simple elegant idea, almost too good to believe it hasn't been invented before, and in fact it has... nothing to see here please move along.
NICE! (Score:3)
That is SO useful! How can people be expected to look at a simple instruction diagram to find out which way to slot a battery into a gadget?
Re:Did Microsoft REALLY just patent the diode brid (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Did Microsoft REALLY just patent the diode brid (Score:4, Interesting)
Well when reading the news item as in "no electronics needed" how many people on Slashdot came up with the same idea in their head before reading the article? It's rather obvious how it could be done but yeah, many patentable things are. I just think it's sad people can patent such crap/simple stuff. Especially since many others could come up with a very similar product from just wanting to solve the same problem, and the patent would most likely cover that solution to.
I assume there's a reason it's not used already. Such as: It's not that hard to put the battery in correctly in the first place and maybe the connectors worn out faster / get bent more easily / touches by accident/moist/..
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diode battery isolation while "lossy" is a far better idea from a practical standpoint this idea is just silly - I agree after getting some dirt, moisture, a corroded battery it will be far less reliable - plus many devices need more than two batteries in series which means complicated additional wiring (to handle all the possible cases of screwed up batteries) - I just don't see it as practical in any way, in fact its ridiculous
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never wired anything before huh - if its a 6 battery setup it will take twelve individual circuits (wires) to enable this "clever" solution - if those are wires you have to put them somewhere in the device, same for a circuit board - in a standard batter setup the contacts serve that function but don't have to span the length of the battery or the entire series combination of batteries
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no its universally silly, whether it had come from Sony, Apple, or Ronco - the other complication I see is that this will require each battery to have its own separate contacts (you cannot do direct battery to battery connection) this WILL make the device larger to accommodate the special patented contacts, in essence the space allocated for batteries just got bigger
Re:Did Microsoft REALLY just patent the diode brid (Score:5, Funny)
>And Sun Tzu also Said
It's Oracle Tzu now and it's not a strategic product anymore, you insensitive clod!
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Well when reading the news item as in "no electronics needed" how many people on Slashdot came up with the same idea in their head before reading the article?
I personally found the idea quite obvious _after_ reading the article, but it never, ever occurred to me before, even though it is an obvious thing to want. Further, I don't think the patent was rewarded for the abstract idea of creating mechanical connections that work correctly with a battery plugged in either way, but for the actual implementation, which is likely not trivial. If it was as obvious as you think, why has no camera maker implemented it before? What about the slightly easier "put a picture s
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Some just put out + and -, some others have a picture of the battery but molded into the plastic where it's not easy to see, some better have paper strips or something such.
But as said I just think people have accepted it and not starting thinking about / looking for a solution, as with many other popular simple items in your daily life. For instance atleast here in Sweden we've got those plastic scrapes to pick up the crap from the dish sink, and before someone invented that simple plastic scrape with hole
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I think the solution I came up with when I read the summary is mechanically simpler, so I wonder if I can get a patent too...
Actually, the first thing I thought of was Jef Raskin's cable connector. It's a real shame that horrible designs like the USB connector(s) were adopted instead.
No reverse polarity. (Score:2, Funny)
Scotty will turn in his grave. MS killed the hyperdrive fix.
Re:Did Microsoft REALLY just patent the diode brid (Score:5, Informative)
I suggest you learn a bit more about electronics. Diodes have a voltage drop, 0.7V for normal diodes, schottky diodes go as low as 0.2V, but that's still a lot if you get only 1.2V to 1.5V from your battery.
And the summery clearly states that it is without circuitry. Which is not that hard to imagine if you LATFPITFA.
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Re:Did Microsoft REALLY just patent the diode brid (Score:5, Funny)
Sometimes the stuff you learn in basic electronics can be really useful. In this case though it just made you look like a dick. RTFA.
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No. No, they REALLY did not.
Note: if a question actually has multiple possible answers, it's not rhetorical.
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Note: if a question actually has multiple possible answers, it's not rhetorical.
If a question is meant to illustrate a point or accomplish rhetorical goals, the question is Rhetorical.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetoric [wikipedia.org]
The number of possible answers to a question has absolutely nothing to do with how rhetorical it is. Rhetorical questions are often asked in a way that doesn't expect an answer, but that quality of a question is distinctive from it rhetorical value.
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Not only that, they patented an inferior alternative.
Diode bridges are near useless for dealing with individual AA or similar cells. In a bridge the power must go through two diodes. Assuming a drop of 0.2V per diode (which is pretty good) then on a nimh cell you'd be throwing away a third of your voltage just on the diodes.
This thing is mechanical, and looks to be designed with very tight tolerances.
mmm, I can see reliability being a problem with this design. Compatibility with the various brands of batter
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You should just say "out-of-spec RadioShack batteries".
No need to be coy.
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For only 50-100% more than you have been paying for your misshapen generics, Microsoft's battery partners are proud to announce their new line of Premium Dimensionally Certified(tm) batteries: "Because that widget was expensive, and you wouldn't want something to happen."
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I didn't really believe that Microsoft had patented the bridge rectifier.
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I think you should first analyze how the diode bridge works. FYI, it fixes polarity of DC input just fine.
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If it works reliably, that's pretty neat.
It won't. There've been battery holders that locked out incorrect installation for years, but if the positive bump on the cell isn't long enough, or is too wide, it doesn't work. Unfortunately, it's rechargeable cells that tend to fudge the size specifications.
Re:And in other news... (Score:5, Interesting)
I did the unthinkable and read TFA. They are not trying to patent the diode, they came up with a completely stupidly simple *mechanical* system which really allows to put the batteries in any direction you want without checking the polarity. it's one of the "so simple anybody could have thought of it" patents, and I must confess that I am actually impressed by its simplicity.
For once I must say "well done, Microsoft" (sadly I'm not really anticipating repeating that sentence all too often)
Re:And in other news... (Score:5, Insightful)
I remember *some* devices that, instead of the cheap flat plate (positive contact) and spring (negative contact) configuration, had the housing built in such a manner that for the negative plate (which was semi-springy) it was full width, while for the positive plate it was shielded by the housing to just slightly over the width of the protruding positive contact of the AA/AAA battery.
That way, the battery could only be inserted one way. It solves the same big problem of inserting batteries the wrong way around and either the device not working, or worse.
It doesn't solve the "I wish I could put the battery either which way around so I don't have to use my square-peg-in-round-hole 18-month-old brain" problem, though - and it's still a fairly clever design. Now to see how well it holds up in mass production where tolerances of fitting such things in the housings are often seen as +-2mm and everything moves, twists and turns.
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+/- 2mm? Luxury!
Lemme know when you're doing machine work and need 1/1000ths of an inch (~25.4 m for the fraction/imperial impaired)
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Indeed. There is prior art on this, dating several decades back. They may have a patent on specifics (such as insulation etc), but the idea of having two connectors at different deph is a really old one.
If I remember correctly, toy makers dropped the tech because it didn't handle shocks from being dropped well, and there were some insulation problems as the battery compartment aged. Old age circutry tended to cost more too, and having it die because of short-circuit was just not cost effective.
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I'm actually mildly impressed.
There's probably both a positive and negative side to the design.
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There certainly seems to be a polarised reaction from the Slashdot crowd.
Re:Dodge this (Score:5, Informative)
This is specifically for battery compartments with a physical parallel configuration, rather than a series configuration.
( 'physical configuration' as in the batteries laying side-by-side, rather than end-to-end, so the batteries' poles never directly touch eachother; unrelated to the electrical circuitry's configuration )
I'm trying to recall the last time I've seen a physical series configuration; but I just realized my old-ass flashlight counts as one.
( it's been replaced years ago by a proper wind-up for emergency cases and a decent Maglite-like one with a rechargable set for more frequent/high intensity beam use )
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Most devices that require more than two batteries use a series-parallel configuration for space reasons. Usually, it's two and two. For example, my universal remote, my first-generation Apple wireless keyboard, etc.
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You're right, but still, what happens usually is that you have two compartments side by side (either holes or slots) and then a wire connecting two batteries next to each other.
And that 'wire' is placed usually in a space constrained place (like a lid, in digital cameras)
Re:Dodge this (Score:5, Funny)
...but I just realized my old-ass flashlight counts as one.
( it's been replaced years ago by a proper wind-up for emergency cases and a decent Maglite-like one with a rechargable set for more frequent/high intensity beam use )
Thanks a lot [xkcd.com]
Trivial (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Dodge this (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's say it use 2 batteries and the user place them like this
[- +}{+ -]
Well... doesn't look like it's going to work...
Just when Microsoft thought they'd built the ultimate idiot proof device, nature comes along with a better idiot.
To be fair though, those sort of devices are less common, and it's easier to spot when you've got it wrong (two batteries nose to nose or tail to tail is more obviously wrong than a single battery in backwards).
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Don't think of this as physical placement, but logical placement.
You can do this in a remote even though the batteries are side by side and if their connection is serial or parallel is irrelevant (ok, if it's parallel it will probably go out in smoke if you place them wrong, still)
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ok, if it's parallel it will probably go out in smoke if you place them wrong, still
Nope. Even parallel using Microsoft's invention will still work. If the batteries were in parallel (a stupid design but they do exist) but one was incorrectly inserted this new connection would still wire them correctly.
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more obviously wrong ?
are you some kind of anti-gay righteous activist ?
What sort of contraption do you have in your possession that is fueled by gay people? A 'fabulous' one I would guess.
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Well if you put it together like that, you are correct. However if you'll read the article you'll notice that the battery cradles are
[ ]
[ ]
instead of [ ][ ]
And the terminal contacts as well as the internal circuitry will sort it out.
It's a nice idea and makes life simple, especially for the people who are baffled by the battery diagrams.
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Microsoft has invented the diode? Thank goodness for that, I don't think electronics could progress any further without it.
If you insist on thinking of it as a diode, then it's a diode with a voltage drop of 0, which is pretty impressive!
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