itwbennett writes "Google recently sent a cease-and-desist letter to Steve Kondik, the creator of Cyanogen, a popular souped-up version of Android, asking him to stop distributing applications such as Gmail with his modified software. 'We make some of these apps available to users of any Android-powered device via Android Market, and others are pre-installed on some phones through business deals,' wrote Dan Morrill on the Android developer blog. 'Either way, these apps aren't open source, and that's why they aren't included in the Android source code repository.' Now, Kondik thinks he's found a workaround. He plans to release a 'bare bones' version of Cyanogen without the applications, leaving it to modders to make a backup copy of the Google applications that shipped with their phone for later reinstallation before hacking away at the Android software. 'The idea is that you'll be able to Google-ify your CyanogenMod installation with the applications and files that shipped on your device already,' Kondik wrote."
This actually seems like a more-or-less legitimate point by Google. I'll probably get flamed for this, but it seems like people may have overreacted a little bit.
We, the moderators, need to sign a giant collective pact to make the wishes of the mod point martyrs come true. It's deeply disturbing how often the tactic works and propels you to a +5 insightful.
This actually seems like a more-or-less legitimate point by Google. I'll probably get flamed for this, but it seems like people may have overreacted a little bit.
No you shouldn't. It is completely valid, and it's not only because it's not open source, it's also illegal to make use of anothers trademark, such as the case with Firefox/Debian. In FOSS however you can fork the project, which you can't here. Still I see no reason why this is even noteworhty. Google is careful about its channels. I wouldn't want my brands to be associated with just anything either.
> In FOSS however you can fork the project, which you can't here.
Yes, you're free to fork the Android project and do whatever you want with it, it's under a FOSS license.
What you can't do with the fork is distribute Google's proprietary apps that happen to run on Android: if you need their capabilities you have to write an alternative. While such applications feature strongly in the "google phone" as usually sold, they have no technical advantage, and there is nothing in the system that prevents alternative applications from taking their place.
I'm with you right up until the end... I agree that there are IP issues with open source, particularly when you have to both open and proprietary IP involved. However, I don't see how this is a case of google being opened to 'unwanted competition.'
Here is how I see it:
- Android is open-source.
- Not all of the apps on Android are necessarily open-source.
- Therefore, Cyanogen, Drizzy, and whoever else are free to mod it to their hearts delight - just so long as they don't also redistribute things that aren't open-source.
If this is really Google's qualm, and they will leave Cyanogen alone after he removes the proprietary IP, then I really don't see the problem.
1. "IP" (assume you mean "Intellectual Property") is a weasel word. It has no meaning. 2. "Open Source" isn't what has issues. Google has an issue with this guy distributing their copyright software without a license, which is entirely their perogative 3. It is also entirely an individual user/owner of an Android phone perogative to save a backup copy of these copyright apps so as to facilitate reinstalling them after switching from Android to this Cyanogen.
Function: noun
: property that derives from the work of the mind or intellect (as an idea, invention, trade secret, process, program, data, formula, patent, copyright, or trademark) ; also : an application, right, or registration relating to this "
--Merriam Webster.
To help you out even further, the word "property" means, "2 a : something that is or may be owned or possessed : WEALTH, GOODS; specifically : a piece of real estate b : the exclusive right to possess, enjoy, and dispose of a thing : a valuable right or interest primarily a source or element of wealth : OWNERSHIP c : something to which a person has a legal title : an estate in tangible assets (as lands, goods, money) or intangible rights (as copyrights, patents) in which or to which a person has a right protected by law"
Why don't you just say "IP is not a physical object" instead? So your statement actually, you know, makes sense.
Because that is not what I am saying. What I am saying is that "law" as a set of rules to govern society, is itself subject to rules of logic and science, a fact which many, if not most legal "industry" members refuse to acknowledge, in effect pretending that "law" represents some sort of higher order of existence, not bound by mere physical universe. As the result you get statements like " the l
If BioWare sells a linux live cd with Neverwinter included you do not have the right to redistribute a mod for free, even if it includes free software. I think it is called "mere aggregation" and it is well understood to be specifically exempted from the viral effects of the various licenses.
So Android is free but the Google Apps that usually come "for free" with Android are not.
Try researching before commenting. Android is not Google's operating system. Android is run by the Open Handset Alliance. Google is a member of the OHA. Yes, Google created Android -- you or I or anyone can download Android, compile it for our hardware, and run it without paying Google or anyone a single dime.
Google Maps, Google Mail, Google Market? They're GOOGLE'S software, not OHA's. Google wants money for them. You want it on your phone, you pay.
Why is it so hard to see that Google and Android are not affiliated anymore. Separate companies.
But the one thing they love more than a hero is to see a hero fail, fall, die trying. In spite of everything you've done for them, eventually they will hate you.
If someone was taking Linux and illegally distributing proprietary, commercial Linux apps with it, they'd get a cease and desist. That doesn't mean that Linux isn't open source because you're prohibited from illegally distributing certain closed source apps with it.
It could just as easily be said that the IP issues surrounding Open Source are not well understood and prone to violation when mixed with proprietary IP.
The issues surrounding Open Source are the same that surround proprietary licensed "IP". The same copyright is involved. The same requirement to follow licensing is involved. The trick is to pay attention to that mix of licenses. When I go and buy a Dell laptop and it comes with a package of software pre-installed, I still have to pay attention to the licenses involved for each piece of software that came bundled with that system. We've been able to survive this mix of proprietary licenses for decades
The last few days have been difficult. What has become clear now is that the Android Open Source Project is a framework. It's licensed in such a way so that anyone can take it, modify it to their needs, and redistribute it as they please. Android belongs to everyone. This also means that big companies likes Google, HTC, Motorola, and whomever else can add their own pieces to it and share these pieces under whatever license they choose.
I've made lots of changes myself to the AOSP code, and added in code from lots of others. Building a better Droid, right?
The issue that's raised is the redistribution of Google's proprietary applications like Maps, GTalk, Market, and YouTube. These are not part of the open source project and are only part of "Google Experience" devices. They are Google's intellectual property and I intend to respect that. I will no longer be distributing these applications as part of CyanogenMod. But it's OK. None of the go-fast stuff that I do involves any of this stuff anyway. We need these applications though, because we all rely so heavily on their functionality. I'd love for Google to hand over the keys to the kingdom and let us all have it for free, but that's not going to happen. And who can blame them?
There are lots of things we can do as end-users and modders, though, without violating anyones rights. Most importantly, we are entitled to back up our software. Since I don't work with any of these closed source applications directly, what I intend to do is simply ship the next version of CyanogenMod as a "bare bones" ROM. You'll be able to make calls, MMS, take photos, etc. In order to get our beloved Google sync and applications back, you'll need to make a backup first. I'm working on an application that will do this for you.
The idea is that you'll be able to Google-ify your CyanogenMod installation, with the applications and files that shipped on YOUR device already. Or, you can just use the basic ROM if you want. It will be perfectly functional if you don't use the Google parts. I will include an alternative app store (SlideMe, or AndAppStore, not decided yet) with the basic ROM so that you can get your applications in case you don't have a Google Experience device.
I'll have more updates soon as I get all the code hammered out.
Thanks for all the support thru all of this.
This entry was posted on September 27, 2009, 9:41 am and is filed under Home.
This is not a work around. He will comply with Google's wishes and most everyone will be more or less happy. Google keeps their proprietary apps available for license and he gets to have his distro without having to pay for a distribution license.
I'm sure pre-compiled images with all the apps will appear in the usual places within hours of each release anyway, much like they did with XBOX Media Centre.
I happen to want a so-called "smart phone" that I can program, and wouldn't mind having a touch screen. However, the iPhone is only available on AT&T and I hate Google. So a Google phone with all of the Google stuff taken out is very interesting to me. Maybe this guy's found a new fan...
In the Slashdot world, following the laws lobbied by the corporations that are ultimately extremely unpopular and seem to be attacking the rights of citizens is a "hack".
And yet they can't figure out why companies view FOSS as a vehicle for technological advancement that circumvents their control and threatens their outdated business models.
There, fixed that for ya, at least from my point of view. I consider myself a law abiding citizen but I'm also realizing that many laws these days are not benefiting or protecting the citizens at all and are very unpopular. When you have such laws being passed that seem contrary to public desires, you start to wonder what is going on and who your government is really working for.
Furthermore, I've seen plenty of startups and even some actors and such that have embraced newer business models that don't nece
I have a rooted G1 and use Cyanogenmod: it provides several enhancements, such as root, which allows for Wifi/bluetooth based tethering. It is also somewhat more responsive and quicker than the official firmware. It does have less battery life, and can be less stable then the official version however.
While it is true that Android is open source, Android without many of the base apps such as Gmail/Google maps is not particularly useful. Still though, this won't prevent me, and other users from using this mod. And since I paid for the phone, and by extension, the applications that came with the phone, I should be able to transfer them to a new operating system on the same phone.
Hmm, that's a really good point. The Market app is one of ones they have a problem with? If that's the case, then this really does put a damper on the Android modders. Anyone know if the Market App is one of the ones involved?
Hmm, well wouldn't that have the same problem? Whether they ship the Market app with the mod, or if you download and install it independently, it's still an infringement on google's (or whoever's) IP. I guess Cyanogen/whoever could go the traditional approach of saying 'it's up to you to find your own market app, we're not responsible for any piracy' or whatever, but that would again cripple their mods by drastically reducing the number of potential users. How many people are going to be able to handle manu
I love my Android G1 (with Cyanogen's Mod). But Google is not Android, nor vice versa. Google created Android, and then spun it off to the Open Handset Alliance (OHA).
This means that Google is now an application developer for Android, just like any other application developer. Android supports competitive markets (and there are at least 3 Android markets out there). Gmail isn't the only email interface, Google Maps is not the only maps interface.
I love my Android phone, but I don't love the Google apps -- they're too intrusive. I'd love a Google-less G1, and I'm down for trying the new mod without the Google apps if it will work fine.
Again, Google is not Android. Android is Android, maintained by the Open Handset Alliance. Cyanogen might be wiser to join the OHA, actually, and license the apps if he wants them.
I don't use FOSS usually (Audacity, Filezilla, etc) -- and I'd prefer a Googleless phone. I have Gmail for email, but I use Opera to read my email over the Gmail app on the phone. I use Waze instead of Google Maps. I do use Google Voice, but I'm thinking of going to a SIP app instead. I use Meebo instead of Google Chat.
Android is good software, but it's not really ready for primetime (mostly due to the underperforming phones that need 4x the RAM to get anything running consistently).
Creating a company is a pretty trivial process, at least in the US. In addition, it provides nice legal separation between personal assets and company assets (though not completely impervious) in case something goes horribly wrong and he gets sued.
The catch is, how much does it cost? The OHA FAQ is silent on the subject.
Works for me. He also said he's working on an app that'll do the backup for people who can apparently handle rooting and uploading custom ROMs to their phone but can't handle a few adb commands.
Honestly, I don't LIKE all the googlifying of the phone. The default ROM on a Mytouch 3G (how pervy is that name, btw?) doesn't even let you skip the google signup.
I'll definitely put SOME Google apps back on my phone (Google Maps, Listen, etc) but I'm pretty happy to not be REQUIRED to.
The WINE and ReactOS projects don't provide MS Office, IE or Media Player. FPGB... doesn't provide GameBoy cartridges. MAME makes you responsible for finding your own ROMs. Et cetera, etc.
Actually, Wine does provide "IE" (in the form of a minimally functioning clone) - but your point is well taken.
This is essentially how it works on any platform you're hacking. You can release all the open-source bits, modifications, and instructions you want (modified roms, killhdinitrd, dsmos), but the minute you combine that with proprietary software (Google Apps, Tivo software, Mac OS X DVD's), you're in hot water. So the usual result is anyone who wants to remain legitimate distributes only the modifications, and allows users to bring in the proprietary bits themselves. It's worked well, and keeps everything legally clean. Perhaps a little more work for the end user, but hacking has never been point-and-click.
Tivo hacking, Mac OS X hacking, now GooglePhone hacking. No different.
My HTC Touch Pro2 ships with Windows Mobile, Office Mobile, IE Mobile, and Windows Media Player. I went to the XDA Developers forum and downloaded a cooked ROM containing Windows Mobile, Office Mobile, IE Mobile, and Windows Media Player. An Android ROM customizer gets a cease-and-decist from Google. To my knowledge, no Windows Mobile ROM customizer has gotten a C&D from Microsoft. I'm no Microsoft fanboi, but I *am* confused as to why Google would raise a stink over their product being distributed in such a way that it will ONLY be useful on devices that already came with the software. It's not like he lifted it from an Android handset and is selling it in the App Store or even ported it to the iPhone and is giving it away for free on Cydia or something like that. I guess I just don't understand how being distributed on cooked ROMs that only work on handsets that originally came with the code and will only be used by a subset of Android owners is going to harm Google.
Not all devices will be "blessed" by google, in fact many G1's in Asia do not have Google apps due to licensing issues.
Also - the carrier gets a cut of the Market revenue, so there may be device/carrier specific modifications to the Market app to enable this tracking.
I *am* confused as to why Google would raise a stink over their product being distributed in such a way that it will ONLY be useful on devices that already came with the software
Because that's not the case. Android can run on a wide variety of platforms, including a lot that are not supported by Google. Google only wants to support their apps on a certain set of platforms. You are confusing the issue somewhat because everyone running Windows Mobile on a handset is doing so because the manufacturer has bought a license from Microsoft, while not everyone running Android has any business relationship with Google.
This isn't an "outmaneuver", it's precisely the right thing to do. It's no different from other open source projects with closed source components, like emulators that require a ROM image to function, or the Second Life client that requires proprietary Vivox components for voice.
In the case of any "open source" based device what is going to happen is the manufacturers learn quickly that some portion of the user community will do completely unexpected things with the device and the software on it. Often, this will violate various agreements, including potentially trade agreements governing the use of the device in places. This is especially true with cell phones - wouldn't you like to have a cell phone that **ALWAYS** gets a channel rather than competing with other phones in your area? Nevermind that the tower owner might not like this hack, there is little that can be done to stop it, especially with a more "open" phone.
The other thing that is expected - and is clearly happening - is people get confused about licensing and what is and what is not free to redistribute. The end result is again, there is no control over content. In this case the developer/distributor decided to comply with Google's request. They could have just as easily said bugger off, and if they were in a non-compliant country there would be little Google could do about it. And that is assuming they could find the person at all.
Sure, it looks obvious to manufacturers that an "open" device might be cheaper to start with. But there are other costs that are just beginning to become apparent. Most of these are mitigated by locking down the device so it might have "open" roots but is unmodifyable. As in the case of things like Tivo, Archos, Kindle, etc. the manufacturers have done quite a bit to ensure this sort of problem doesn't come up. Unfortunately, what we are going to see with "popular" devices is they will get pried open, exposed, hacked, and proprietary content redistributed and modified.
I'm just waiting for the first person that figures out a way to use the cell service with a Kindle for some other purpose. Something that costs Sprint enough that they want to cancel their agreement with Amazon. Something that doesn't involve destroying the Kindle to rip the cell modem out.
There are a few technical pieces missing from the comments here, and this story is still definitely developing. From Cyanogen's twitter feed today: "This is about proprietary device drivers and not Google at this point. These drivers are not redistributable."
This is a nice reminder that there's likely no building a usable phone room without infringing on some agreements. I do not expect this to change in the near future; what this means is that a sort of 'merge' or 'overwrite' or patch system will need to be put in place for people modding their phones.
This will take a little time to build would be my guess, but isn't insurmountable; I think the complexity of building such a thing should fit inside of the typical hacker attention span that's been piqued right now.
"The Android engineers at Google are now making available previously unreleased components â" makefiles and configuration files â" that will give independent developers the ability to create Android releases in the same manner that Google does, but without using Googleâ(TM)s proprietary apps. These engineers are working with volunteers from the community and have already begun working on alternatives to the proprietary Google applications."
It doesn't sound as contentious as the OP but it definitely seems like Google is taking the right tact on this to me.
Android is an open source operating system. But not all apps that run on it are open source. How is that a "dirty little secret"? Google never claimed anything different.
Good analogy, but it's no secret. Google is more than happy to take your open source, contributed works and use them for profit. It's free engineering work on components that just aren't very useful without all the proprietary other parts, and as long as there are corporate fanboys out there willing to do it, Google and Apple would be stupid to not take advantage of it.
Interesting (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
I'll probably get flamed for this
You'll probably het modded "Interesting".
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
This actually seems like a more-or-less legitimate point by Google. I'll probably get flamed for this, but it seems like people may have overreacted a little bit.
No you shouldn't. It is completely valid, and it's not only because it's not open source, it's also illegal to make use of anothers trademark, such as the case with Firefox/Debian. In FOSS however you can fork the project, which you can't here. Still I see no reason why this is even noteworhty. Google is careful about its channels. I wouldn't want my brands to be associated with just anything either.
Re:Interesting (Score:4, Informative)
> In FOSS however you can fork the project, which you can't here.
Yes, you're free to fork the Android project and do whatever you want with it, it's under a FOSS license.
What you can't do with the fork is distribute Google's proprietary apps that happen to run on Android: if you need their capabilities you have to write an alternative.
While such applications feature strongly in the "google phone" as usually sold, they have no technical advantage, and there is nothing in the system that prevents alternative applications from taking their place.
Parent
Re:Interesting (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
1. "IP" (assume you mean "Intellectual Property") is a weasel word. It has no meaning.
2. "Open Source" isn't what has issues. Google has an issue with this guy distributing their copyright software without a license, which is entirely their perogative
3. It is also entirely an individual user/owner of an Android phone perogative to save a backup copy of these copyright apps so as to facilitate reinstalling them after switching from Android to this Cyanogen.
Re:Interesting (Score:5, Informative)
Function: noun
: property that derives from the work of the mind or intellect (as an idea, invention, trade secret, process, program, data, formula, patent, copyright, or trademark) ; also : an application, right, or registration relating to this "
--Merriam Webster.
To help you out even further, the word "property" means, "2 a : something that is or may be owned or possessed : WEALTH, GOODS; specifically : a piece of real estate b : the exclusive right to possess, enjoy, and dispose of a thing : a valuable right or interest primarily a source or element of wealth : OWNERSHIP c : something to which a person has a legal title : an estate in tangible assets (as lands, goods, money) or intangible rights (as copyrights, patents) in which or to which a person has a right protected by law"
--Merriam Webster
Are you still confused?
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Because that is not what I am saying. What I am saying is that "law" as a set of rules to govern society, is itself subject to rules of logic and science, a fact which many, if not most legal "industry" members refuse to acknowledge, in effect pretending that "law" represents some sort of higher order of existence, not bound by mere physical universe. As the result you get statements like " the l
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
If BioWare sells a linux live cd with Neverwinter included you do not have the right to redistribute a mod for free, even if it includes free software. I think it is called "mere aggregation" and it is well understood to be specifically exempted from the viral effects of the various licenses.
So Android is free but the Google Apps that usually come "for free" with Android are not.
Re:Interesting (Score:5, Insightful)
Try researching before commenting. Android is not Google's operating system. Android is run by the Open Handset Alliance. Google is a member of the OHA. Yes, Google created Android -- you or I or anyone can download Android, compile it for our hardware, and run it without paying Google or anyone a single dime.
Google Maps, Google Mail, Google Market? They're GOOGLE'S software, not OHA's. Google wants money for them. You want it on your phone, you pay.
Why is it so hard to see that Google and Android are not affiliated anymore. Separate companies.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
But the one thing they love more than a hero is to see a hero fail, fall, die trying. In spite of everything you've done for them, eventually they will hate you.
Re:Interesting (Score:5, Insightful)
Why is the modded interesting?
Android is 100% open source.
It is possible to use non-OSS apps with Android.
If someone was taking Linux and illegally distributing proprietary, commercial Linux apps with it, they'd get a cease and desist. That doesn't mean that Linux isn't open source because you're prohibited from illegally distributing certain closed source apps with it.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
It could just as easily be said that the IP issues surrounding Open Source are not well understood and prone to violation when mixed with proprietary IP.
The issues surrounding Open Source are the same that surround proprietary licensed "IP". The same copyright is involved. The same requirement to follow licensing is involved. The trick is to pay attention to that mix of licenses. When I go and buy a Dell laptop and it comes with a package of software pre-installed, I still have to pay attention to the licenses involved for each piece of software that came bundled with that system. We've been able to survive this mix of proprietary licenses for decades
Slashdotted... (Score:5, Informative)
Google Cache [74.125.47.132]
The current state..
The last few days have been difficult. What has become clear now is that the Android Open Source Project is a framework. It's licensed in such a way so that anyone can take it, modify it to their needs, and redistribute it as they please. Android belongs to everyone. This also means that big companies likes Google, HTC, Motorola, and whomever else can add their own pieces to it and share these pieces under whatever license they choose.
I've made lots of changes myself to the AOSP code, and added in code from lots of others. Building a better Droid, right?
The issue that's raised is the redistribution of Google's proprietary applications like Maps, GTalk, Market, and YouTube. These are not part of the open source project and are only part of "Google Experience" devices. They are Google's intellectual property and I intend to respect that. I will no longer be distributing these applications as part of CyanogenMod. But it's OK. None of the go-fast stuff that I do involves any of this stuff anyway. We need these applications though, because we all rely so heavily on their functionality. I'd love for Google to hand over the keys to the kingdom and let us all have it for free, but that's not going to happen. And who can blame them?
There are lots of things we can do as end-users and modders, though, without violating anyones rights. Most importantly, we are entitled to back up our software. Since I don't work with any of these closed source applications directly, what I intend to do is simply ship the next version of CyanogenMod as a "bare bones" ROM. You'll be able to make calls, MMS, take photos, etc. In order to get our beloved Google sync and applications back, you'll need to make a backup first. I'm working on an application that will do this for you.
The idea is that you'll be able to Google-ify your CyanogenMod installation, with the applications and files that shipped on YOUR device already. Or, you can just use the basic ROM if you want. It will be perfectly functional if you don't use the Google parts. I will include an alternative app store (SlideMe, or AndAppStore, not decided yet) with the basic ROM so that you can get your applications in case you don't have a Google Experience device.
I'll have more updates soon as I get all the code hammered out.
Thanks for all the support thru all of this.
This entry was posted on September 27, 2009, 9:41 am and is filed under Home.
In other words (Score:5, Insightful)
This is not a work around. He will comply with Google's wishes and most everyone will be more or less happy. Google keeps their proprietary apps available for license and he gets to have his distro without having to pay for a distribution license.
A compromise that is win-win all around.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm sure pre-compiled images with all the apps will appear in the usual places within hours of each release anyway, much like they did with XBOX Media Centre.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
In the Slashdot world, following the laws lobbied by the corporations that are ultimately extremely unpopular and seem to be attacking the rights of citizens is a "hack".
And yet they can't figure out why companies view FOSS as a vehicle for technological advancement that circumvents their control and threatens their outdated business models.
There, fixed that for ya, at least from my point of view. I consider myself a law abiding citizen but I'm also realizing that many laws these days are not benefiting or protecting the citizens at all and are very unpopular. When you have such laws being passed that seem contrary to public desires, you start to wonder what is going on and who your government is really working for.
Furthermore, I've seen plenty of startups and even some actors and such that have embraced newer business models that don't nece
cyanogenmod (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:cyanogenmod (Score:4, Informative)
Market is included in the proprietary category from what I have read.
however, I wonder if there's a market .apk that can be downloaded (you don't need market to run a .apk)
If there is, this would resolve all problems.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Not outmaneuvering (Score:5, Informative)
Outmaneuver? (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't think that's actually true.
I think this solves their complaint, this means that the code is being left with the end user, and is not being distributed by them.
Wait, Google != Android (Score:5, Insightful)
I love my Android G1 (with Cyanogen's Mod). But Google is not Android, nor vice versa. Google created Android, and then spun it off to the Open Handset Alliance (OHA).
This means that Google is now an application developer for Android, just like any other application developer. Android supports competitive markets (and there are at least 3 Android markets out there). Gmail isn't the only email interface, Google Maps is not the only maps interface.
I love my Android phone, but I don't love the Google apps -- they're too intrusive. I'd love a Google-less G1, and I'm down for trying the new mod without the Google apps if it will work fine.
Again, Google is not Android. Android is Android, maintained by the Open Handset Alliance. Cyanogen might be wiser to join the OHA, actually, and license the apps if he wants them.
Re: (Score:2)
I don't use FOSS usually (Audacity, Filezilla, etc) -- and I'd prefer a Googleless phone. I have Gmail for email, but I use Opera to read my email over the Gmail app on the phone. I use Waze instead of Google Maps. I do use Google Voice, but I'm thinking of going to a SIP app instead. I use Meebo instead of Google Chat.
Android is good software, but it's not really ready for primetime (mostly due to the underperforming phones that need 4x the RAM to get anything running consistently).
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The catch is, how much does it cost? The OHA FAQ is silent on the subject.
How is this a workaround? (Score:2)
Works for me. He also said he's working on an app that'll do the backup for people who can apparently handle rooting and uploading custom ROMs to their phone but can't handle a few adb commands.
Honestly, I don't LIKE all the googlifying of the phone. The default ROM on a Mytouch 3G (how pervy is that name, btw?) doesn't even let you skip the google signup.
I'll definitely put SOME Google apps back on my phone (Google Maps, Listen, etc) but I'm pretty happy to not be REQUIRED to.
This is what he should have done in the 1st place (Score:5, Insightful)
The WINE and ReactOS projects don't provide MS Office, IE or Media Player. FPGB (http://games.slashdot.org/story/09/09/29/0516251/Gameboy-Color-Boot-ROM-Dumped-After-10-Years [slashdot.org]) doesn't provide GameBoy cartridges. MAME makes you responsible for finding your own ROMs. Et cetera, etc.
Re: (Score:2)
Actually, Wine does provide "IE" (in the form of a minimally functioning clone) - but your point is well taken.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Heck - Windows doesn't provide MS Office.
Re:This is what he should have done in the 1st pla (Score:3, Insightful)
WINE and ReactOS aren't redistributions of Windows.
This is more like if MS told people making Windows XP slimming programs to not distribute Calculator with their mods because MS owns Calculator.
Of course, you can't redistribute Windows like that, where you can Android.
Nothing new here, really (Score:5, Insightful)
This is essentially how it works on any platform you're hacking. You can release all the open-source bits, modifications, and instructions you want (modified roms, killhdinitrd, dsmos), but the minute you combine that with proprietary software (Google Apps, Tivo software, Mac OS X DVD's), you're in hot water. So the usual result is anyone who wants to remain legitimate distributes only the modifications, and allows users to bring in the proprietary bits themselves. It's worked well, and keeps everything legally clean. Perhaps a little more work for the end user, but hacking has never been point-and-click.
Tivo hacking, Mac OS X hacking, now GooglePhone hacking. No different.
I am confused (Score:4, Interesting)
My HTC Touch Pro2 ships with Windows Mobile, Office Mobile, IE Mobile, and Windows Media Player. I went to the XDA Developers forum and downloaded a cooked ROM containing Windows Mobile, Office Mobile, IE Mobile, and Windows Media Player. An Android ROM customizer gets a cease-and-decist from Google. To my knowledge, no Windows Mobile ROM customizer has gotten a C&D from Microsoft. I'm no Microsoft fanboi, but I *am* confused as to why Google would raise a stink over their product being distributed in such a way that it will ONLY be useful on devices that already came with the software. It's not like he lifted it from an Android handset and is selling it in the App Store or even ported it to the iPhone and is giving it away for free on Cydia or something like that. I guess I just don't understand how being distributed on cooked ROMs that only work on handsets that originally came with the code and will only be used by a subset of Android owners is going to harm Google.
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I *am* confused as to why Google would raise a stink over their product being distributed in such a way that it will ONLY be useful on devices that already came with the software
Because that's not the case. Android can run on a wide variety of platforms, including a lot that are not supported by Google. Google only wants to support their apps on a certain set of platforms. You are confusing the issue somewhat because everyone running Windows Mobile on a handset is doing so because the manufacturer has bought a license from Microsoft, while not everyone running Android has any business relationship with Google.
Doing the right thing (Score:3, Insightful)
This isn't an "outmaneuver", it's precisely the right thing to do. It's no different from other open source projects with closed source components, like emulators that require a ROM image to function, or the Second Life client that requires proprietary Vivox components for voice.
You get what you pay for (Score:3, Interesting)
In the case of any "open source" based device what is going to happen is the manufacturers learn quickly that some portion of the user community will do completely unexpected things with the device and the software on it. Often, this will violate various agreements, including potentially trade agreements governing the use of the device in places. This is especially true with cell phones - wouldn't you like to have a cell phone that **ALWAYS** gets a channel rather than competing with other phones in your area? Nevermind that the tower owner might not like this hack, there is little that can be done to stop it, especially with a more "open" phone.
The other thing that is expected - and is clearly happening - is people get confused about licensing and what is and what is not free to redistribute. The end result is again, there is no control over content. In this case the developer/distributor decided to comply with Google's request. They could have just as easily said bugger off, and if they were in a non-compliant country there would be little Google could do about it. And that is assuming they could find the person at all.
Sure, it looks obvious to manufacturers that an "open" device might be cheaper to start with. But there are other costs that are just beginning to become apparent. Most of these are mitigated by locking down the device so it might have "open" roots but is unmodifyable. As in the case of things like Tivo, Archos, Kindle, etc. the manufacturers have done quite a bit to ensure this sort of problem doesn't come up. Unfortunately, what we are going to see with "popular" devices is they will get pried open, exposed, hacked, and proprietary content redistributed and modified.
I'm just waiting for the first person that figures out a way to use the cell service with a Kindle for some other purpose. Something that costs Sprint enough that they want to cancel their agreement with Amazon. Something that doesn't involve destroying the Kindle to rip the cell modem out.
Story Still Developing (Score:4, Informative)
There are a few technical pieces missing from the comments here, and this story is still definitely developing. From Cyanogen's twitter feed today: "This is about proprietary device drivers and not Google at this point. These drivers are not redistributable."
This is a nice reminder that there's likely no building a usable phone room without infringing on some agreements. I do not expect this to change in the near future; what this means is that a sort of 'merge' or 'overwrite' or patch system will need to be put in place for people modding their phones.
This will take a little time to build would be my guess, but isn't insurmountable; I think the complexity of building such a thing should fit inside of the typical hacker attention span that's been piqued right now.
Timothy, (Score:3, Insightful)
"Complying with demands" is not "outmaneuvering".
less sensationalistic piece from wired (Score:3, Informative)
"The Android engineers at Google are now making available previously unreleased components â" makefiles and configuration files â" that will give independent developers the ability to create Android releases in the same manner that Google does, but without using Googleâ(TM)s proprietary apps. These engineers are working with volunteers from the community and have already begun working on alternatives to the proprietary Google applications."
It doesn't sound as contentious as the OP but it definitely seems like Google is taking the right tact on this to me.
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Android is an open source operating system. But not all apps that run on it are open source. How is that a "dirty little secret"? Google never claimed anything different.
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Good analogy, but it's no secret. Google is more than happy to take your open source, contributed works and use them for profit. It's free engineering work on components that just aren't very useful without all the proprietary other parts, and as long as there are corporate fanboys out there willing to do it, Google and Apple would be stupid to not take advantage of it.
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There's the Zii Egg [zii.com]...
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