Microsoft Bets Big On Computing For the Car 378
dstates writes "The automobile industry may be hurting, but Microsoft is doubling down and making a massive new investment in its automotive business unit. Microsoft already works closely with a number of car companies and will enhance that effort with more people and more resources. Sync developed as a collaboration with Ford Motor Co. allows motorists to control their cell phones, music players and navigation systems with voice commands while they drive. Microsoft is also making 'Live Search' technology available to automakers to develop in-car search and navigation. Detroit native Tom Philips, the new unit leader said 'There are a lot of technologies that are two to three years out that are going to provide even more connectivity and innovation. There's such a disconnect between what people experience in their cars and what they experience in the rest of their lives.'"
Of course! (Score:5, Interesting)
It's going to be as big as tablet computing, I tell you!
As someone who drives a 8.5 year old car (and is still happy with it) without a board-computer like the ones Microsoft sells, I still don't see the need for one. I do have a "board-computer" but it only calculates l/100km, driven time, and stuff like that. I don't think it uses an operating system.
In-car entertainment is something I cannot comprehend. If you've got kids they most certainly have a Gameboy or something like that, or they can read a book. That's what I did when I was a kid doing long trips (Okay, it was a Game Gear, but that's not a big difference). On short trips enterainment systems shouldn't even be turned on.
The only value I could see is a GPS system, but that really doesn't have to be based on Windows. Even then, in the 14 years I drive, I have rarely felt the need for a GPS. The few times I was in a foreign city without a map (and if you got there, you make sure you actually have a map *grin*).
Anyway, I know this is just my opinion and my needs are surely not reflected in what "Joe Driver" needs. Now get off my lawn!
Re:Slightly off-topic (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm hoping we'll get there before too long - I've just ordered an Openmoko [openmoko.org] Neo Freerunner. it has a GPS unit, I'm not sure what you can do with it yet.
If we can get some sort of GPL'd Tom-Tom or Garmin style software, that would be cool.
I won't buy a car with it (Score:2, Interesting)
Sorry, I'd never buy a car with a MS computer in it. Call me bigoted or whatever. I just won't.
Re:Of course! (Score:5, Interesting)
My thoughts on this is that GPS is almost always completely worthless to me. I almost never go anywhere that I don't know where it is. I don't travel much any more, except locally, and when I do travel a two dollar map (or a free one from Google) tells me where to go.
My kids are grown, so I have no use for in-car movies and games, even if I did do a lot of travelling.
My car is an '02, and it has primitive computers that tell me things like my gas mileage, etc.
But some of the things Microsoft is advertising for cars, like changing the radio station or choosing an MP3 by voice, would interest me if anybody but Microsoft was building them. The other drivers are annoying enough, I don't need Microsoft's bass-ackwards inyerfaces pissing me off even more.
Okay, it was a Game Gear, but that's not a big difference. Now get off my lawn!
Damn, dude, thanks for making me feel so old. My youngest daughter was two when the Game Gear came out! I used a slide rule in high school. Pocket calculators cost millions of dollars and took whole buildings to house when I was a kid.
Re:Slightly off-topic (Score:5, Interesting)
the state of car computing sucks. Microsoft Did this in the 90's (AutoPC anyone?) and it sucked hard because the platform and Dev kit sucked ass.
Hell you had to get the apps signed which severely reduced the community programming for it. plus the OS it's self and the hardware was buggy as hell. I reproduced for the guys at CES a fatal bug they refused to believe existed.
If you turned on the ignition on and off and on again. you could lcok the hardware up HARD. this manifested it's self in manual transmission cars if you stalled the engine.
Re:why not an AC socket or a microwave oven, inste (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, it turns out that these things (automotive entertainment systems0 actually have to be extremely reliable. Windows Embedded for Automotive has to be way more robust than regular Windows Embedded, for example. The pressure comes from the car manufacturers themselves, not the public.
The reason is quite simply, if the system fails within the warranty period, it's a warranty repair. Warranty repairs are expensive, especially with prices dropping and margins thinning. Like the technology sector, a profit or a loss can be made simply by the amount of warranty work that needs to be done. (As a side benefit, people perceive a car that has to be in the shop to be of way lower quality, even if it's in the shop because the entertainment system keeps dying). Anyone remember the classic VW radio with the anti-theft that keeps going off on the slightest electrical spike?
Here's the other nasty thing about automotive systems - the parts must be available for years after the model is discontinued. With external DVD players, aftermarket stereos/DVD players, etc., it's not a big deal since the owner can buy a new one. But that new in-dash GPS/radio/climate control/etc. unit, if it breaks within that time period, it has to be replaced. (Think about all those 5 year "bumper to bumper" warranties, too). Given how fast technology moves, it's actually quite difficult to design a system and still have parts available for it 5-10 years after it was made.
Putting the MS flame wars aside... (Score:3, Interesting)
What they think we need, and what I think we need. (Score:3, Interesting)
I have a tom tom, and love having gps when I travel. Being a technical astute person. What I would like to have is a system, with gps (1), music (mp3) (2) and radio control (software radio) (3), maybe cell phone control (4), all tied with wireless so when I pull up to my house I could sync all items, gps maps, music, os updates etc.
Now that I think of it, I guess just a nice little low power pc running of a 4 gig card with no hard drive to be the firewall and manage the wireless connections to the car and a little hub would allow everything that is existing to be tied together.
Re:Of course! (Score:2, Interesting)
If it helps, I got my Game Gear when I was 16 or so. ;-) I also owned an Atari Portfolio. No, and I didn't get them "just like" that like kids get Gameboys these days. (Are there even any kids left that don't have a Gameboy DS?!?)
So the kids are annoyed in the back (yes, yes, I know yours are grown now) and find out that they can mess with the radio using the voice activation. Hours of fun! I'd rather have a radio with buttons and a standardized interface to connect MP3 players to auto radios.
Re:Zune? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Slightly off-topic (Score:5, Interesting)
Oh FFS.. how can MS be so bad at everything they do?
I'm just glad this is about stuff like GPS and MP3 system inputs, and not actual car control. I don't want to have to wait til SP2 until it's safe for friends and family to use the MS Autodrivatron. I'd rather have a more ethically responsible corporation in charge of software and hardware that can endanger human life. The car manufacturers themselves are probably the best bet for designing self-driving cars. In fact I know that VW at least has a self-driving Golf that can race fast round a track made of cones, think it was on Top Gear I saw it. Big step from there to a car that can recognise and react to pedestrians properly, but at least there is some proper research being done towards the self-driving car.
Re:Slightly off-topic (Score:5, Interesting)
My boss had a Windows CE car. It would occasionally turn on at 3 AM to do a bunch of diagnostics. So he would get in the car the next day to drive to work and surprise surprise the battery is almost dead from showing a blue screen all night.
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:why not an AC socket or a microwave oven, inste (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually, it turns out that these things (automotive entertainment systems0 actually have to be extremely reliable. Windows Embedded for Automotive has to be way more robust than regular Windows Embedded, for example. The pressure comes from the car manufacturers themselves, not the public.
We wish... I have spent many happy hours in QANTAS business class watching the Windows CE based in-flight entertainment system rebooting, and rebooting, and rebooting - You got to see a Windows CE error screen for minutes at a time. The last occasion it it happened to us, they gave us refunds/gifts to the value of $700 as the system was out all the way from Singapore to Frankfurt. One of the nice cabin crew told me that it happened regularly, and that the experience had put her off Windows - She had just bought an Apple Mac. Anecdotal, but still frightening.
I saw something similar on a Virgin flight - only their in-flight entertainment system was Linux based. The kernel kept on booting, failing to start anything useful, giving up and rebooting.
From what I could tell, it looked like there was some sort of corruption to the root fs and the designers had failed to account for the possibility that power to non-essential systems (eg. entertainment) might be cut at awkward moments. Which we all know NEVER happens on an aircraft.
Bottom line: I don't care whether it's Windows Embedded, Linux or what, if the system isn't designed and implemented properly it's going to screw up.
Re:Late to the party (Score:5, Interesting)
Personally i'd prefer not to have digital convergence...
What i want instead, are the separate systems...
Multiple separate units that each do one function well and work together, allowing me to replace one piece at a time.
I have a tape deck that is 20+ years old, a turntable that is 20+ years old (i have very little media to play on either of them anymore), a radio that's a year old (digital), a radio thats 10+ years old (analog), a cd player thats about 10 years old, a streaming media player that's a couple of months old, several games consoles etc etc, all connected through an amplifier that's around 5 years old, and a TV that's less than 1 year.
I replace it piece by piece as i need new stuff, i have very few tapes or vinyl records, but i do listen to them occasionally so buying a modern all in one system that didn't support them at all would be a pain. Also as stuff gets replaced it's repurposed, my old TV is in the bedroom for instance.
Re:Putting the MS flame wars aside... (Score:3, Interesting)
How long does it take to boot? How much did it cost?
A tomtom will play music, and i believe there's ways to connect them to your sound system instead of the build in speaker, it will also navigate for you.
For the functions an in car computer needs to do, windows is just ridiculously over complicated, expensive and bloated. That's why tomtom devices run a stripped down linux.
Re:TomTom (Score:5, Interesting)
The major navigation units like TomTom run embedded linux.
And if you ask me, this is the future of "car computing". I don't want to play solitaire on the road, and I don't want a GP O/S that's vulnerable to viruses. I don't want bluetooth anywhere near my ignition and fuel injection systems.
Cars last 10-15 years. Computers typically last about 2-3. Trying to tie these together is a bad, bad idea.
I drive (and love!) a 10 year-old Saturn with almost 200,000 miles on it. When it was built, the idea of a Tom-Tom was barely conceived, yet I drive with one routinely on long trips. Even if a Tom-Tom was built-in to new cars today, in just a few years it would be out-of-date as new units include everything from weather to instant-connect for ordering food locally. It would stick out like tail fins and sorely date your car.
Sorry.
Make my car drive reliably and efficiently first, leave the gadgets for later. At the very least, create a standardized, pluggable bay and protocol for gadgets down the road, akin to the ubiquitous cigarette lighter jack, so that we can plug in gadgets easily in the future. (hint: cigarette lighter jacks SUCK ASS for power plugs, they are just already there - give me something decent!)