No Linux IdeaPad For Lenovo's US Customers 188
narramissic writes "When Lenovo's new IdeaPad 'S' series netbooks hit stores in October, U.S. buyers will only be given one option: Windows XP on the IdeaPad S10 (making it not so much a series as a single offering). Meanwhile, people in most markets Lenovo serves, including Singapore, China and the U.K., will be offered both of the company's new IdeaPad netbooks (the S10, which has 10.2-inch screen, and the S9, which has an 8.9-inch screen), and the choice of either Microsoft Windows XP or a Linux OS. Before you start feeling too sorry for yourself, consider the price tag: the S10 will sell for £319 (US$629) in the U.K., but in the U.S. the starting price is $399." Liliputing (a cool site for anyone interested in sub-notebook computing) has posted a few bits on the IdeaPad, including some short videos.
XP (Score:5, Funny)
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Wait a minute... and Apple fangirl that's rooting for linux?
I think I'm in love... too bad I'm already engaged.
Re:XP (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually it seems that they think the UK consumers are stupid, given the price hike they are imposing.
Re:XP (Score:4, Insightful)
In other news, rice costs more here than in India. They must think we're stupid.
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If you are willing to pay more and that makes you happier, go for it. But that is kind of dumb. All that happens is companies will just charge more for everything, inflation rises, and suddenly you paying more for stuff just parts your way with money quicker.
There is a good saying that is always true. "A fool and his money are soon parted."
Aside: Rice costs less in India because it is *SUBSIDIZED*, like most basic food. Try that as a word for the day.
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Re:XP (Score:4, Informative)
Yes, you may be rich, but you are stupid. (And the dipshits that modded you up even more so.) Many hi-tech goods are much cheaper in the US than in most third-world countries. It's about markets, competition, trade barriers, monopolies. Businesses don't calculate what would be a "fair" price related to wages, they just charge what the market will bear.
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More likely they think consumers in the US are too stupid to know that both versions of Windows are a POS with respect to something that "just works" without constant diddling or calling your computer friends to set right again. Then there are built in discounts for all the junkware likely to be installed on the US edition.
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My Hinux HTPC just works.
My fiance's Linux laptop just works.
My Linux laptop, on the other hand, I'm constantly diddling with. Then again, that's just what I do with it.
My Vista desktop, now there's a sore on my ass if I ever saw one. I stay out of the office, save for picking up printouts, because that thing's in there.
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"without constant diddling or calling your computer friends to set right again"
note that means it was working fine when you got it, when setup properly, linux boxes continue to work fine untill the hardware dies, usually
initial setup may require tweaking etc, but if you buy from the manufacturer with linux, the linux it's loaded with will work fine out of the box and unlike windows will continue to work.
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> It certainly doesn't go to dental benefits, so where is this money going? Genuinely curious here.
If that's a dig at British dental hygiene, I can tell you that the impression that it is poor is nonsense (IMO). I've seen many US people who have poor dental hygiene, plus one or two famous historical figures - yet I've not seen anyone with noticably poor teeth (with the possible exception of the elderly). ..but that's just my observation.
However, you *are* correct in suggesting that the UK tax doesn't go
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Well, that's certainly refreshing to read :) Something changing for the better - not often that happens...
Just the UK? (Score:2)
I do wonder though, if they didn't confuse Euros prices with Pounds ... because that price is outrageous.
For comparison, a MSI wind would set you back around 400 Euros in mainland Europe which corresponds pretty well to the 600 Dollar price tag in the US.
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Ignore the Anonymous Coward. He was dropped on his head a lot as a child...which was last week.
not linux (Score:4, Funny)
It *is* Linux (Score:5, Informative)
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Pus: sticky creamy bodily fluid that oozes from sores and spots.
Re:It *is* Linux (Score:5, Funny)
Agreed. I can see it now: Open Sores Linpus
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Pus: sticky creamy bodily fluid that oozes from sores and spots.
Plus when you say it the alternatives don't get better:
Lin-puss = Linux pussy?
Or if you fail to pronounce the n properly it'll easily sound like:
Limpus = Biggus Dickus' brother
Yeah, I run GIMP on Limpus... come on, you can't even make this stuff up.
Re:not linux (Score:4, Funny)
Pretty shit name. Pretty much the only worse name for a distro I can think of would be "Smegmux", which is horrific - except for the fact that Linpus is real.
Smegmux (Score:2)
I can see someone creating that distro now, just for the hell of it.
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"Linux... Uncircumcised!"
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Ewwwwwwwwww
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this is the distro used in acer low end notebooks, no X, just a black screen. Great for presenting a Windows alternative!.
and I would take that anyday instead of paying for XP / Vista.
Please, note that Dell is only selling Linux pre-installed in "selected" markets...
Black market (Score:5, Funny)
I foresee a black market in Linux system restore discs...
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Seconded (Lenovo T61)
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Is unicode really that hard to support?
My netbook purchase is on hold... (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course then the dual cores will start coming out later in the year, but I doubt I can wait until then, especially at these prices.
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I'm in the same (or a similar) boat, awaiting the rising tide ...
The used-to-be-ThinkPad background of the Lenovo laptop line is probably the biggest reason this one is high on the list -- I'm hoping the keyboard on this will be more tolerable than for instance that on the early EEE (I will *not* tempt fate to say it could hardly be worse); the Acer Aspire One is very similarly specced / priced, but I read yesterday that Acer's planning to sell a 6-cell battery for (ack!) $130, which strikes me as a poor ba
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The Lenovo 3000 (their first 'consumer' notebook) line does not really reflect the ThinkPad heritage, and as far as I can tell, the intent of the IdeaPad is to make a similarly consumer oriented notebook, but to leave out all of the clunky that they built into the 3000s (mediocre speakers, boring-as-possible design, etc.), so don't be surprised if this offering falls short of ThinkPad-based expectations.
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Dell has removed the top line of function keys and tied them as alts to the number row, which should allow them to have slightly more space in the keyboard region and hopefully make for a more pleasant typing experience. I know Wind users and some EeePC users complain about cramped keyboards.
Battery life/cost is absolutely the key issue for me, though.
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Dell has removed the top line of function keys and tied them as alts to the number row, which should allow them to have slightly more space in the keyboard region and hopefully make for a more pleasant typing experience. I know Wind users and some EeePC users complain about cramped keyboards.
I think removing the row of function keys would allow more space for the touchpad, but not the keyboard. I think the "typing experience" is limited more by the width of the keyboard area, which is limited by screen/case width.
The touchpad is a common complaint about the first generation of netbooks. Either they're too small (Eee PCs) or they have buttons on either side instead of below (MSI Wind). There just isn't enough room below the keyboard for an adequately-sized touchpad with buttons below.
Of cour
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"Of course, I'd settle for a trackpoint instead of a touchpad."
Considering the average consumer's reaction to a trackpoint.... never going to happen (sadly).
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The trackpoint is a pain in the ass to use. It's useful if you're a very keyboard-centric person that only very rarely needs the mouse, but 99% of computer users use the mouse almost exclusively. Seriously... go watch people in a typical office trying to use an Office application.
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Is that the little nipple thing (never knew a name for it) that I used to get with my Toshiba laptops in the middle of the keyboard? Man that was handy as all hell. It took some getting used to but once you did you could turn the speed way up and pretty much have some excellent control of the cursor.
I figured it had gone the way of the dino as I've not seen it on any models that I was specifically shopping for. (It isn't a buying point for me.) I did enjoy it back then but it did accumulate a lot of finger
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IMHO both the Dell's and this Lenovo look much better than the Eee's, but that SplashTop would (for me) be the killer feature.
But given the speed with which these new models seem to reach Europe. I'll probably won't be actually getting one before December (when the West celebrates th
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I'm looking casually at the netbooks, but would really like one that runs linux and will also serve (maybe with a plugin headset) as a cell phone. Then I could abandon my cheezy att cell phone which has no software worth mentioning on it and run a system where I have the controls, not whatever marketing company has paid the most to the cell companies.
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US Europe price differential .. (Score:3, Insightful)
Why is this, does it cost more to ship it to Europe or is it we're supposed to subsidise the US market?
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No, its because they think they'll make more profit in Europe charging more, either because Europeans have more money they are willing to throw at this kind of tech, or because its a narrower, richer segment of the market willing to consider the product at all in Europe; its simply a matter of segmenting the market and charging as much as the market will bear in each segment.
Cost probably has next to nothi
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Re:US Europe price differential .. (Score:4, Funny)
in the US you often get single fee for continental US, but here you get single fee for ... Belgium or The Netherlands!
Of course it's a single fee for Belgium and The Netherlands. Belgium is a province of The Netherlands.
On the other hand, I had expected a single fee for Germany and the two above, since The Netherlands is
one of Germany's Bundeslander.
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You know that here in this non-existent country the liberals are considered right-wing ?
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No it's not.
Belgium is autonomous. It's a Kingdom and a parliamentary democracy.
You may be thinking of Benelux which is a trading agreement between Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg, but Belgium certainly isn't a province of the Netherlands.
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Actually, I'm just horsing around -- I'm a resident of the area :-)
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Ah, OK, whoosh! and all that.
Long live Albert II.
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As I'm on an island (Great Britain) I expect it'll be more expensive to ship something from outside the UK for a long time, as there's an increased cost to ship, fly or 'train' the goods here, but is it really the case that transporting something from, say, Strasbourg to Berlin is much more expensive than Stuttgart to Berlin? (taking into account the extra 150km)
Britain should build another tunnel. Norwich to Amsterdam would be a good challenge :-).
Building the existing tunnel 10cm bigger so double-stacked
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Is it really more expensive to ship things from China to the UK than from China to the US? You can either take them by boat around Africa or by train across Asia to the UK. To the US you need to take them across the pacific, with no option of a land route.
Of course, deliveries within Europe are more expensive than the US because of the higher fuel tax.
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The GP was referring to shipping within Europe. I assume that in the USA you can look for online bargains, and find stores all across the USA. I don't know how shipping charges work, but if you're in Florida and the best bargain is in California the GP said the shipping isn't too bad.
If you live in the UK, it's not quite as good: you can search bargain stores within the UK and their location doesn't matter, but if you want to find a bargain from somewhere else in the EEA then you need
- to understand the lan
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No, its because they think they'll make more profit in Europe charging more, either because Europeans have more money they are willing to throw at this kind of tech, or because its a narrower, richer segment of the market willing to consider the product at all in Europe; its simply a matter of segmenting the market and charging as much as the market will bear in each segment.
Cost probably has next to nothing to do with it.
So this is what Europeans claim these days? Electronics cost more in Europe for decades, even when their economies were in the collective dumper.
From my experience in selling things to people in European countries, it costs quite a bit more to get things from Asia to Europe than compared to North America, not to mention the mountain of languages needed to advertise for a smaller market. Blame your politicians and many languages.
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If people had listened to Hitler everyone would be speaking German and our consumer electronics would cost less.
So you're saying that the US came here in 1945 so that their electronics would cost less ? I knew there was something fishy about the whole deal !
Re:US Europe price differential .. (Score:5, Informative)
- we're willing to pay more (i.e. we value stuff more)
- more regulations (apparently)
- tax included in the price (17.5% for the UK price)
- company has to pay recycling charge (WEEE)
- longer warrenties (by law)
At least, that's what /. came up with last week :-)
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Ahhh...so that explains why my cell phone company keeps tacking on extra charges, they know I'll value their service more.
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It is true that the warranties in UK are crazy. But essentially you end up paying for 2 computers instead of 1.
Your first comment just makes you look either stupid or snobbish though. I would never be willing to pay *more* for exactly the same product just for the privilege of paying more.
Then again, with that attitude why isn't all of UK using a Mac? /joke
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It is true that the warranties in UK are crazy. But essentially you end up paying for 2 computers instead of 1.
...and in the US, you pay for ½ a computer, since it breaks after 6 months :D
Your first comment just makes you look either stupid or snobbish though. I would never be willing to pay *more* for exactly the same product just for the privilege of paying more.
That's from someone like Steve Jobs, who observed that if you have a unique product (e.g. iPod) then you can sell it for more in Europe than in the USA. This is similar to being able to sell it for more in the USA than in South Korea.
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It doesn't cost more to ship TO Europe, it costs more to ship WITHIN Europe. European postal, shipping, and trucking rates are MUCH higher than in the US. So while it costs about the same to get it to the dock on the container ship, it costs a lot more to truck it from the dock to the store.
For electronic products, there are also internationalization costs. Those costs are reduced for very popular languages, like Chinese and American English. Everyone else pays a premium.
And remember, that's MSRP, not the w
Import it from the US (Score:2)
In fact the difference is so much that I wouldn't be suprised if small companies imported them from the US in bulk and undercut their fellow sellers.
I thought the price difference was because they could sell more in the US than in Europe? the whole bulk-buying reduces costs strategy
UK getting charged more? There's a shocker... (Score:5, Insightful)
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You can switch out "end up paying" for "are perfectly willing to pay"...
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While that's basically true for "must have" things, it certainly means I'm less inclined to buy as much stuff. For instance I'd buy a damn sight more games on impulse if they weren't £40-50 ($80-100) on release. As it is I think a lot longer about it and more often than not just decide I've got enough play left in the titles I've already bought. I'd probably spend more money total if games were twenty quid a pop.
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This is why I like Steam.
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Yes, sometimes much cheaper, especially with Amazon marketplace (for CDs anyway, I don't play video games). I feel a bit guilty not supporting my country's/the EU economy though, especially as a UK online record store went out of business because all their customers bought everything from the US.
Please fix your economy :-)
(Although the UK one isn't much better right now...)
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Is it any cheaper if you order them from the States, maybe from amazon.com or some such, and have them shipped? Disclaimer: I don't know if this makes any sense, or if shipping charges eat your lunch, or what. But last time I sent a private package of about that size from the US to Europe, it cost me around $6 shipping, so it might still be a net win if you can find a place that won't overcharge for shipping.
Once you've dealt with any region-coding (or equivalent) issues, shipping and customs can easily eat into that saving. I've also noticed that packages sent to/from the US using the postal service have a remarkable habit of going missing - though courier firms tend to be reasonably reliable.
Either the US postal service loses about 30-40% of the packages they handle or someone somewhere in the route between US and UK postal service considers anything going through there fair game to steal.
Not just US and Lenovo (Score:2)
Do I see a trend or is it a plot?
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It seems they've been having problems shipping them out. I noticed around a month delay before the Linux version showed up on NewEgg.
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Here in The Netherlands it's impossible to get the Linux version of the eee pc 901.
Did you actually found the Eee 901 for sale in the NL already? (Just asking because I haven't seen it anywhere).
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Others show pre order or 6-10 days delivery.
And contrary to last weekend (when I last checked) they are now offering the 20GB Linux version!
I'm pretty sure I saw them in the Tweakers.net price watch but they are not there right now, looks like a container got rerouted :)
Re:Not just US and Lenovo (Score:4, Interesting)
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same only linux ones available were the 701 and even that was only if you asked and had them specifically order it for you in.
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So I guess it was a good idea... (Score:3, Insightful)
To buy an Asus EEE PC. Not that IBM has a bad reputation with respect to being Linux compatible, but it was nice to have it come installed and just work out of the box.
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Lenovo != IBM
No clit?! (Score:5, Insightful)
Ehhh...Lenovo had a chance of replacing ridiculously small touchpads found in all netbooks with a trackpoint, ending up with THE best netbook on the market.
Instead...they're only average/good... :/
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You sound surprised. I've seen so many people praise the Thinkpad "nipple" on my old laptop as an astounding development, yet still buy a Dell instead because they double the RAM for free ...
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When it comes to normal sized laptops, one could say that touchpoint vs. trackpoint is a thing of personal preference (though from what I see around most people with touchpad only laptops use mouse if they can help it, going even to such ridiculous means as using minimouse on the smooth surface of the laptop (when "on the move") next to touchpad; otoh people who have trackpoints often use them even if notebook sits on the desk in their home)
BUT...when it comes to netbooks...touchpads on them are borderline
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Most of the business class notebooks I've used at my employer - All dells, a few ibms - every one has a trackpoint style device.
To be honest though - the IBMs seem to work better. The ones on the early dells (c600/610) had a manufacturing problem in the keyboard that would make the mouse fly all over the screen after the keyboard heated up from normal use and warped the sensor underneath.
The T42 I'm using now has an awesome trackpoint - and I used to swear by these and never use the touchpad. Since the im
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The ones on the early dells (c600/610) had a manufacturing problem in the keyboard that would make the mouse fly all over the screen after the keyboard heated up from normal use and warped the sensor underneath.
I remember those! They earned Dell a lifetime ban from my previous employer.
As much as anything else, the lifetime ban was because you'd spend an hour on the phone trying to battle through a script "Have you checked the BIOS settings? Have you reinstalled Windows?" even after you'd explained that you'd had an engineer out every week for the past month replacing such keyboards and that as far as the engineers were concerned, it was a known issue.
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Well ... personally I stay away from using laptops that only have those, if I can't use a mouse with them.
I really, really, really cannot stand them. It's just way too much like using a joystick, and joysticks aren't supposed to be used for that.
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Well, then Lenovo could just give another model more classic/non trendy look and...a trackpoint...
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Lots of Sony models used to have trackpoints. Maybe some still do.
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I seem to recall (can't find any references, sorry) that it's the technology in the IBM trackpoints that was patented rather than the idea of a trackpoint itself. They use strain gauges rather than moving parts, which I seem to remember makes them far more accurate than the competition.
I could be making all this up - it's been a few years.
ARM Laptop? (Score:2)
So XP hasn't been discontinued (Score:3, Interesting)
Centrino2 support (Score:2)
Lenovo also isn't offering the latest version of the Thinkpad T/X series (T400, T500, X200) in Linux, yet. I imagine the primary reason is that Intel hasn't yet written drivers for the Intel 5100 wireless chipset.
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VAT and basic marketing principles. They can sell for more so they do.
Taxes? (Score:2)
I think the level of health and social services provided by the UK government compared to what is provided in the US will give you a clue.
Robert Heinlein created the acronym TANSTAAFL, "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch". I would add NFHCASSE, "no free health care and social services either".
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Welcome to Treasure Island.
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Not just the UK, Europe. As for the reason, VAT plays some part but more than that its because they can get away it. They hike the price because they can. It is not uncommon for a device costing $399 to cost 399. They also know that many people don't like buying electronics from outside the EU because of issues with voltage, warranties, keyboard layout or simply for fear of being slapped wi
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Ah but there are lots of keyboard layouts [wikipedia.org] in Europe which makes this a bit complicated for laptops.