High Expectations For Google Android

Several readers have pointed out recent articles discussing the development and features of Google Android. Silicon.com has what is essentially an FAQ for Android, providing the relevant basic information about it. Apcmag questions whether Google can meet the high expectations most enthusiasts have for the platform, and The Register discusses Google's claims that it will be competitive with Apple and worth the wait. We discussed a preview of Android last month. Quoting The Register: "Google mobile platforms guru Rich Miner acknowledged that for the moment, Apple may have an advantage. After all, Steve Jobs and company have actually shipped a piece of hardware, while the first Android handset won't arrive until 'the second half of this year.' But Miner also told the crowd that Stevo hasn't treated developers as well as they deserve. 'There are certain apps you just can't build on an iPhone,' Miner said. 'Apple doesn't let you do multiprocessing. They don't let your app run in the background after you switch to another. And they don't let you have interpretive language in your iPhone apps.'"

They're really stretching

I'm all in favor of openness and thus I don't plan to buy an iPhone, but it sounds like Google has to look pretty far to find advantages for Android. These "flaws" in the iPhone are obscure enough that I don't think most regular people would even understand them.

It's interesting to note that iPhone doesn't allow interpreted code... while Android doesn't allow native code. Which one of these is more "open"?

Re:They're really stretching

Android is. The reason is the intent behind it. Android wants to keep binary executables from limiting platforms for Android phones, and as Java and .NET have shown, these days there is little reason to use native code except when the "interpreted" (which is a bad word for it) code can't access all the native APIs.

Apple wants no interpreted code so there is no way any software can get onto the iPhone that they haven't approved -- and they aren't going to approve a lot of the types of software that regular people are going to want (IM that works when they're on a phone call or surfing the net, for example).

Apple's made a huge mistake in their lockdown and with any luck Google will either beat them or force them to stop being... well... Apple. (And I say this as an iPhone and Mac user...)

Re:They're really stretching

It's interesting to note that iPhone doesn't allow interpreted code... while Android doesn't allow native code. Which one of these is more "open"?

From what I've seen so far, the limitations in Android are mostly technical, whereas the limitations in the iPhone SDK are mostly business. From that perspective I'd say that Android probably has a higher ceiling.

Re:They're really stretching

These "flaws" in the iPhone are obscure enough that I don't think most regular people would even understand them.

As written, yes, those flaws aren't going to make sense to Joe or Jane Six-Pack.

For example, "won't let you do multiprocessing/won't allow running in background", near as I can tell, means "your IM chat session goes kaput if a call comes in", as your application will be shut down, causing your sockets to close, causing the IM provider to assume you've gone bye-bye. Likewise, multiprocessing will be key for any alternative music players (vs. the built-in stuff) or anything else that needs to be at least partly running when other applications come to the foreground. Android has the same freeze-and-kill-the-app logic, but only invokes it when memory is low, and you can set up independent services (think daemons) that won't be subject to those effects.

It's interesting to note that iPhone doesn't allow interpreted code... while Android doesn't allow native code. Which one of these is more "open"?

Android, in that it allows more handset makers to adopt Android without forcing as many dependencies on the underlying hardware. Phone vendors can choose from multiple Android-ready chipsets, or assist in porting Android's Dalvik VM and APIs to yet another chipset if they so choose. To Mr. and Mrs. Six-Pack, this means more phone options and, hopefully, lower prices.

Re:They're really stretching

Why do people keep mis-stating the facts.... The SDK from Apple default is no-background running a simple flag set allows you too.... If your gonna spew hate, at least get your facts straight... Oh wait this is /.

Re:They're really stretching

When you accuse others of not having their facts straight, it helps to, well, have your facts straight: [boygeniusreport.com]

The quote above is pulled from the iPhone Human Interface Guidelines document available on the SDK site. Translation: no true multitasking.... Apparently however, third-party app developers will not be granted the necessary rights for their apps to make use of background processes.... Symbian for example, grants developers rights to restricted attributes for additional fees.

I apologize for not linking directly to those guidelines mentioned, as it appears you have to be registered in some way...

Re:They're really stretching

I think that if Google makes Android too open, it will end up like Windows Mobile - kind of a mess. Think about it - if you let developers install instant messengers as background tasks, how will you handle that in the UI? As you are typing an email, a big popup box jumps in your way? Or maybe you clutter the screen with little taskbar-like icons blinking and flashing and beeping? Then you wonder why the battery life sucks compared to when it was new, and why you keep locking up as the phone runs out of memory...

I think that limiting the device's features to keep it usable is a reasonable thing to do. Especially since usability is the main iPhone advantage. Sure, a few hard-core AIM'ers might not buy an iPhone without a backgrounding AIM client - but if the phone remains usable as a result then it is still a plus. Perhaps Apple can come up with a scheme to make exceptions for well-behaved apps...

As for interpreted languages - Apple isn't going to stop you from using Python to make your application, so long as your application cannot run arbitrary Python code. They just don't want to have an in for malware. It should be pretty easy to attack iPhones - they will all have IP addresses falling within a narrow range - only 4 carriers. If you have a signed application that simply executes arbitrary code... that sort of blows away the whole point of signing applications, doesn't it?

My take. sure to be modded down

Using my many years of reading Slashdot as a gauge, the enthusiasm for the Android handsets, and lack thereof for the iPhone, that are evident on this site lead me to believe that Android will flop and the iPhone will take over the mobile market. Large-scale market trends always seem to defy the common wisdom brokered by the denizens of this site.

Of course, I'm not making a prediction. Just a hunch, based on self-selected observations. My take means nothing, ultimately.

Re:My take. sure to be modded down

iPhone will take over? When is that going to happen?

OpenMoko will put all the pretenders to rest.

android is running on hardware you can buy today

you can buy consumer hardware and run android on it today.. there's a good summary of what has been done at http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS4262102607.html [linuxdevices.com]

I am running the zaurus version which uses Poky linux as its base, and it looks quite cool. Admittedly, it is a bit of a hack, as it's not fully working, but it's much better than using a desk-bound virtual machine!

I strongly suspect that android will win

The iPhone is a great phone, and IMHO without peer in the US. But being the best cellphone in the US is like being the valedictorian of summer school.

My prediction is that the iPhone will always be more stable and have a more consistent interface and user experience. It will always be a great phone. But Apple is about giving you the core features you need and knowing what to leave out. That leaving out bit burns we basement dwelling robot building slashdotters. But Apple's brilliance is giving you a great user experience, and I don't see that ever changing. To apple the iPhone will always be a closed platform (sure you can put some apps on it, but don't try to fundamentally change it). It will always be a phone or/and ipod, not a computer.

The Android is whatever people think it should be. So it's a phone, a computer, a bottle opener. etc. It will have lots of uses in lots of arenas that apple doesn't want to play in. It will allow other countries phones to really kick ass. It will also be much less consistent as lots of people code for it. To a lot of people, this is insanely exciting, and provides the first glimpse of a unified geek tool in your pocket (are you glad to see me?).

Android being free will be super attractive to phone makers, and to consumers. It will gobble up marketshare in many markets. And I suspect that Apple is just fine with that. Apple is in a great place taking the top portion of the markets they play in.

Sheldon

Competition is good...but...

What it really comes down to is how polished the developer tools are. I've written professional apps for about 5 different mobile operating systems so far, and I can tell you that it's not so much in the languages and OS that it uses, but in how refined the tools are.

Right now, I don't like the Android emulator one bit. It's not an emulator. It's a marketing demo that pretends to be a phone, and tries to comfort me by adding "developer tools" as an option. An emulator is supposed to be able to run a ROM image of the OS taken from a machine. If the Google people put the OS on a piece of hardware and dump an image, THAT is what I want for testing my apps. Not some fake toy app for salespeople to be wowed by. I should be able to right click on the thing and load another ROM, save a ROM, and encapsulate a ROM for testing. Palm did that with their original emulator, and while it had lousy network support (I believe you could get a third party app called Mocha PPP that fixed that), it was easily my favorite mobile OS emulator for development that I've worked with. The Windows Mobile emulator is great for debugging and communication, but is crippled in a zillion other stupid ways. I disliked the Symbian and Brew emulators I've used as well, and most of the Java emulators out there have been equally bad. Folks always forget about how important emulation is, they just think that we can just buy a dozen phones and test on all of them. THAT is why homebrew apps don't get made, and those are the kinds of apps that build the entire economy around your OS.

The development environment needs to provide extensive command line support for automated scripting along with a system that makes it brain dead simple to debug and build apps. I don't honestly care if I'm writing an app in Java, C#, or C...I just want an IDE that lets me hit a simple, easy to remember control sequence that builds, debugs, runs, checks code into the repository, whatever. I don't want something that barks at me because it wants me to do things IT'S way, I want it to be flexible enough to do things MY way.

If Android can't deliver this, and a whole lot more, it's going to be only one of many mobile Linux OSs currently hitting the market. Everyone and their mom is releasing mobile Linux OSs. Like we saw on the desktop, it doesn't matter if the big corporations (like Novell) are backing you.

Re:First post?

Competition will be good. Perhaps the Feature Nazis at Apple will be forced to loosen the strings a little bit.

Re:First post?

That would be wonderful. You are right...competition is good. Along those lines...it is interesting that in many ways OS X (and the iPhone for that matter) have made it to the desktop and consumer market and become extraordinarily successful by utilizing open source software that was originally designed to run with Linux and other unices to compete with Microsoft all while the powers that be at Apple have been VERY strict about what goes in to the OS, what makes it to prime-time, etc. In my opinion, Apple has done a great job at both releasing very competitive products (with open source underpinnings and features) and maintaining a balance between the potentially chaotic open-source world and the "real" consumer world in their products...something that Linux unfortunately has failed to do thus far.

Re:First post?

They are about to hit 9% this year. 10% isn't so far off.

And regarding revenue stream, the iPod is something like 40% with 50% going to the Mac.

Re:First post?

Isn't it sad that he got modded up, for being Wrong, I was going to correct him, because since OSX apple has become the number one competitor to 'dell.'

It'd be interesting to see where your figures come from. The figures from iSupply [isuppli.com] tell a very different story.

Units shipped for Q4 2007 were as follows:

HP 14,567,000
Dell 11,320,000
Acer 7,220,000
Lenovo 5,760,000
Toshiba 3,070,000
Apple 2,197,000

As you can see, apple are competing with Toshiba, not Dell - unless you call trailing by 80% to be competing?

Re:First post?

Yes, the new iPhone SDK reveals some really critical shortcomins vs. Android.

The lack of background processing in 3rd party iPhone apps will hamstring whole classes of new apps. The best summation of iPhone SDK problems I've seen is here:

Apple's iPhone SDK Prohibits Real Mobile Innovation [whydoeseve...ngsuck.com]

Re:First post?

How are they ahead of the curve? They have... a phone?

Re:First post?

How are they ahead of the curve? They have... a phone?

No.. they have the iPhone... the only phone on the market with it's own built in reality distortion field generator.

Re:First post?

Apple has released more features and functions to developers and consumers than Google has, courtesy of a shipping iPhone in four countries vs none, a shipping SDK, and multiple firmware revisions. I would be hesitant to proclaim Android capable of grinding Apple into the dirt until after an Android phone exists.

So Apple has three things working in their favor:
1) Resources
2) Developers
3) Customers

Google, thus far, only has hype :)

Re:First post?

A phone less than a year old with more marketshare than all Windows Mobile devices combined,

Care to back that up? In any case, why pick Windows Mobile? Try S60 or even Symbian, the latter powers 7% [allaboutsymbian.com] of *all* mobile phones sold world-wide.

To save you clicking, here are the interesting bits :

"
Highlights - Full year 2007, at 31 December 2007

        * 77.3 million Symbian smartphones shipped to consumers worldwide in 2007 - a 50% increase on 2006 (51.7m)
        * 188 million cumulative Symbian smartphone shipments since the formation of Symbian to 31 December 2007
        * 68 mobile phones based on Symbian OS commenced shipment in 2007 through 250 major network operators by 8 licensees including Fujitsu, LG, Mitsubishi, Motorola, Nokia, Samsung, Sharp, and Sony Ericsson, a 4.6% increase on 2006 (65 models)
        * Of these models, 49 (72%) were based on Symbian OS v9, 46 (68%) for use on W-CDMA/ HSDPA (3G) and 20 (29%) were GPS enabled
        * Symbian OS v9.3 is the latest version on Symbian OS to ship in devices (November 2007). Symbian OS v9.3 is optimized for convergence with performance and feature enhancements
        * 8,736 third-party Symbian applications are now commercially available, a 27% increase on 31 December 2006 (6,896 applications) Source: Symbian research, see Notes to Editors
"

70% of the mobile browser market

Care to back that up? I see some [allaboutsymbian.com] statistics say otherwise. To save you clicking :

"
1. PSP - 23.7%
2. Nokia N95 - 20.2%
3. iPAQ HX series - 20.1%
4. Palm TX - 3.6%
5. Apple iPhone - 3.4%
"

Of course, the figures do not justify the headline (that 'N95 bests iPhone', though the headline is a question not a statement). In any case, I'd like to see where you get your figures from.

...and if you're specifically talking about smart phones (it's still debatable if the iPhone is even a smart phone, IMO), take a look at these [allaboutsymbian.com]:

Nokia 52.9%
RIM 11.4%
Apple 6.5%
Motorola 6.5%
Others 22.7%

A paragraph from that same page gives a (IMO) balanced commentary :

"Apple, perhaps not surprisingly, made a strong entrance to the worldwide market at the end of last year. To get to 6% so quickly (and with a single product) is an impressive achievement. RIM's OS continues to improve at a rate of knots (see my Smartphones Show Blackberry slots, for example) and it continues to be a surprise how fragmented the Windows Mobile world is, in terms of manufacturer success. Plus, even in their home territory of North America, Microsoft is now down to 3rd place in terms of their mobile platform (after RIM and Apple). If Microsoft don't pull a cat out of the bag very, very soon then their in big trouble"

Re:First post?

I've got a 16GB iPhone right here... And I want to beat the crap out of Steve/Apple.

At work earlier today this happened:
Usually I bring along my iPod. At the office I plug it into the USB of my MacBook and just use iTunes to play music from the iPod. Well, today I brought along the iPone (with all my music on) and what happened? You can't play music from the iPhone! I can't do anything in iTunes, transfer movies/music from my office MacBook.
As I was about to go home, I had to bring with me some rather large files. Usually I just use Finder and drag the files over to the iPod. Does my iPhone show up in Finder? No!
Is my iPhone broken?!

It's not a small computer. It's a pretty black box, with very limited use. Yes. It has a great interface and good screen. But there the good things seem to end.

"As a computer, it can also browse the web, take notes, watch videos, listen to music, check your stocks, check the weather, take pictures, and email."
What videos? Only those you get from YouTube or the ones you transfer from the one special chosen Mac?
What if you want to transfer videos/music from another computer?
Can it watch my chosen stocks and notify me when they hit a certain limit? Can the stock-program do this in the background?
Where is MSN for iPhone?
Browse the web with which browser? Opera? Firefox? Lynx?
SSH? I often use SSH clients from my computers to log into and manage my servers. A computer should do this. Does the iPhone?

All the things you mention my previous phone could do too.
It's a rather new Sony Ericsson. Difference was the screen and the UI on the iPone, -and- the SE's ability to transfer files with IR, BlueTooth and USB, use exchangeable SD cards for storage, ability to use mp3 files as ringtones, or just play ordinary mp3 files.

Re:I'm confused

I've read there is an API to enable multitasking within the iPhone SDK; just that by default it is turned off for battery/performance reasons.

Re:First post?

A larger point however is that the iPhone doesn't do any of those things without jailbreaking. With the exception of the iAno (which I admit sounds cool), pretty much any ol' symbian phone should be capable of everything else you mentioned.

Re:what the iphone should have been

there won't ever be any android phones, android is a PLATFORM for phones. and android will beat iphone because it focuses on the developer, i don't really give a fuck if it becomes the market leader, i just want a better mobile platform.