Smartphones Can Now Last 7 Years (nytimes.com) 142
Google and Samsung used to update smartphone software for only three years. That has changed. From a report: Every smartphone has an expiration date. That day arrives when the software updates stop coming and you start missing out on new apps and security protections. With most phones, this used to happen after about only three years. But things are finally starting to change. The new number is seven. I first noticed this shift when I reviewed Google's $700 Pixel 8 smartphone in October. Google told me that it had committed to provide software updates for the phone for seven years, up from three years for its previous Pixels, because it was the right thing to do.
I was skeptical that this would become a trend. But this year, Samsung, the most profitable Android phone maker, set a similar software timeline for its $800 Galaxy S24 smartphone. Then Google said it would do the same for its $500 Pixel 8A, the budget version of the Pixel 8, which arrived in stores this week. Both companies said they had expanded their software support to make their phones last longer. This is a change from how companies used to talk about phones. Not long ago, tech giants unveiled new devices that encouraged people to upgrade every two years. But in the last few years, smartphone sales have slowed down worldwide as their improvements have become more marginal. Nowadays, people want their phones to endure.
Samsung and Google, the two most influential Android device makers, are playing catch-up with Apple, which has traditionally provided software updates for iPhones for roughly seven years. These moves will make phones last much longer and give people more flexibility to decide when it's time to upgrade. Google said in a statement that it had expanded its software commitment for the Pixel 8A because it wanted customers to feel confident in Pixel phones. And Samsung said it would deliver seven years of software updates, which increase security and reliability, for all its Galaxy flagship phones from now on.
I was skeptical that this would become a trend. But this year, Samsung, the most profitable Android phone maker, set a similar software timeline for its $800 Galaxy S24 smartphone. Then Google said it would do the same for its $500 Pixel 8A, the budget version of the Pixel 8, which arrived in stores this week. Both companies said they had expanded their software support to make their phones last longer. This is a change from how companies used to talk about phones. Not long ago, tech giants unveiled new devices that encouraged people to upgrade every two years. But in the last few years, smartphone sales have slowed down worldwide as their improvements have become more marginal. Nowadays, people want their phones to endure.
Samsung and Google, the two most influential Android device makers, are playing catch-up with Apple, which has traditionally provided software updates for iPhones for roughly seven years. These moves will make phones last much longer and give people more flexibility to decide when it's time to upgrade. Google said in a statement that it had expanded its software commitment for the Pixel 8A because it wanted customers to feel confident in Pixel phones. And Samsung said it would deliver seven years of software updates, which increase security and reliability, for all its Galaxy flagship phones from now on.
Not news (Score:4, Informative)
This isn't news to iPhone users.
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No shit, my iPhone is going on 8 years old and it's not been that long ago since I received a security update to iOS 15, March I think. The Android devices I owned received 1 update each.
Re:Not news (Score:4, Informative)
Sounds like you need to buy Android devices from vendors that actually care about keeping things updated.
I get quarterly feature releases and monthly security updates on my Pixel 6 Pro, and have since buying it in October of 2021. And I will continue to get feature updates until October of this year, and security updates until October of 2026 according to Google's published support schedules.
Re:Not news (Score:4)
That's about 3 years shorter than I've been getting them on my iPhone. One of the Android tablets I owned was considered a flagship product when I bought it.
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Android tablets are a fucking mess, and only exist to claim that there are Android tablets. Not going to subtract from what you're saying on that.
Google has since extended their update support for more recent versions of the Pixel, which is exactly what TFA is about.
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Am I supposed to be impressed that your phone will get one year less support than my phone already has? Sounds like Google needs to extend it a little longer. I have wanted to buy a new iPhone for about a year now, but I can't justify it since mine works fine and is still being updated.
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Has Apple stopped killing the batteries on older devices now? Is it safe to install updates if you have an older iPhone? That was one of the reasons I bailed from the Apple ecosystem. (not the primary reason)
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To start - I don't like apple. I'm 100% android for mobile devices, and all linux for PCs/Laptops except for my son's gaming laptop.
You're kind of helping the iPhone point of view from one angle.
You go into any store (online or real world), buy a new phone or tablet with the apple logo on it, and it will get (at least security) updates for a long long time. I don't know nor care exactly what it is.
You go into any store (online or real world), buy a new "android" phone, and it will come with some sort of u
they're sold for 4 (Score:2)
Sometimes longer. You see apple doesn't have cheapo versions so what they do in 3rd world is just sell old models. So you can pick up a new iphone for like 250 dollars, it's just not a new model, but it is a new phone.
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It was a tablet and was considered a flagship device. It cost about $600 when I bought it, wish I had bought an iPad. I believe it was this fine piece of shit.
https://www.colbybrownphotogra... [colbybrown...graphy.com]
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ASUS, it was a tablet and at the time it was considered a flagship device.
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My iPhone is 7ish years old, I just got an update last night and have no plans to switch it.
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WOW.
I had no idea people upgraded every 2-3 years?!?
I went from the old flip phones to my first "smart phone" the iPhone 3GS.
I had that....till I got the iPhone 6S Plus....then eventually the iPhone 12 Max Pro.
Now that I think about it a couple of my friends have had various Android phones over the years...I just assumed they were klutzy and had dropped and broken theirs and were replacing them due to damage.....not planned obsolescence ?
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Well, though, you're dancing around the fact that a lot of iPhone users upgrade far more often then that - just to get the latest new shiny toy. I'd guess that's also true of Google and Samsung customers as well.
Regardless - it's about damn time. These phones, both iOS and Android, have basically been feature complete for the past decade or more. There's not a compelling objective reason to buy a new one every 2-3 years, and it's inexcusable for the manufacturers to not support them security-wise through th
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I'm quite happy in general with my current iPhone.
My ONLY reason right now, to contemplate maybe swapping out the 12 max pro...for the coming 16...is the fact that I'd like to be able to shoot ProRes Log fo
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You've got it right. Don't upgrade "just because". Wait for the truly tempting use case that makes it worthwhile.
I had a 3gs... a 5... then a 10 and now a 12. And the only reason I moved to the 12 was that my mother needed one, and I could afford to upgrade, and send my 10 her way.
My whole extended family exists in an ecosystem of my hand-me-down electronics... :)
I do not see a new phone in my future for at least the next few years. Until they come with 6 months of complementary access to local hookers*, I'
Re: Not news (Score:2)
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What features did they remove that you want back?
I'm not familiar with LG phones....
Re: Not news (Score:2)
Maybe this falls under "feature complete", but it's been a long time since I heard of any smartphone line getting a new feature that is not iterative. Better camera, faster processor, more space, have run their course. Even better cellular connection is hitting a limit - being able to stream HD video is hitting the limit of people's needs until there's some sort of 3D or VR streaming need.
That's not to say there isn't the potential for exciting new features out there. Most of the features that make smartpho
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Similar here: flip phone, iphone 2, iPhone 6, iPhone 12. That's it. 12 is still running like a champ.
Between the flip and 6 I tried a Motorola and Samsung. Didn't like the UX and moved off quickly. Handled my friend's new Samsung last week. Still not digging it. My android friends seem to upgrade about every 2.5 years which seems crazy to me. That makes even the most expensive iPhone cheap by comparison.
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People change phones? :-) My Nokia dumb-phone is at 23 years still working perfectly fine... Soon to be replaced though, while still in perfect shape, because the 2G networks in my country will shut down in a few years. Which is very annoying.
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You still have 2G? Australia shut down 2G years ago, and is shutting down 3G now. You need 4G LTE or 5G to use a phone here.
Do iPhone no longer get wonky (Score:3)
I'm going on 4 years since the last new iPhone though (the kid's out of college) so my info is way out of date.
My Moto G is fine at 3 years but the battery needs a replacement and I don't really want to d
Re: Not news (Score:2)
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I think you skipped over the headline that declared this was something new for "smartphones", not "Samsung and Google". While the summary provides more nuance, the headline is overly sensational in its claim.
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I think you skipped over the headline that declared this was something new for "smartphones", not "Samsung and Google". While the summary provides more nuance, the headline is overly sensational in its claim.
No, I didn't skip over it. I directly referenced it. Second sentence, last four words. Maybe you skipped over the point that the OP skipped over the everything-that-isn't-the-headline.
But seriously, I get it not reading the story is traditional here, but (smugly) not reading the summary and (smugly) acting as if the headline is all there is seems excessive.
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I disagree. When a headline is unabashed clickbait that falsely equates two vendors to all smartphones, the summary is not worth your time and a proportionate response is one that points out the obvious counterexample, just as the OP did.
To be clear, this is true regardless of which vendor(s) we're talking about. Apple fans will breathlessly report on new iOS features as if the idea was spawned from Steve Jobs' reanimated corpse just a few moments prior (e.g. "Smartphone users can finally copy paste!"), whi
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Case in point, here in Switzerland, the other country that is iPhone happy (next to the USA), it's harder to find the Ga
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Correct. I use an iPhone 12 and it will update to iOS 18.x when that is released in September 2024.
But I still plane to update to my iPhone 16 Plus because of better hardware specs, not to mention 512 GB of local storage.
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This is the real reason people upgrade their iPhones. The batteries only last for 3 years before they need to be replaced, and the entire device becomes unbearably slow after you're 2 or 3 iOS versions after the initial phone release.
Re: Not news (Score:2)
"Big deal. That's about the average lifespan of a car battery too."
Oh my God, what are you doing to those batteries? My car was bought in 2011. I replaced the battery once. Only other time I've had to replace the battery is on a 20+ year old used vehicle.
Do some car manufacturers just use shitty batteries?
Good! Now we just need one last fix (Score:5, Insightful)
That's good, but we need laws that specify when a device manufacturer stops providing software updates for a device, they have to release all the tools, source code and documentation needed to build comparable open-source software for the device. Before a manufacturer is allowed to sell a device, they should have to put all of the above in escrow.
Re: Good! Now we just need one last fix (Score:2)
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Less laws is fine too. This wouldn't even be a problem without copyright law.
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Are you or anyone else really going to use this?
Yes. Can also confirm I have used those options when available.
Legal stuff - I don't agree with the proposed mandate, but something to allow for fair use copying while not running afoul of the DMCA and such laws would be nice (maybe just kill the DMCA?).
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Yes. I would absolutely use a phone with open-source software. I used to have a Nokia N900, but it stopped receiving updates and eventually the browser stopped interoperating with most web sites. There were some open-source efforts to keep it alive, but they never went very far.
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What is your average smart phone user supposed to do with all of that?
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Right, if we had such laws I'm sure there'd be a thriving open source iPhone 6 community.
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Cool. It's rather trivial to unlock a bootloader on most Android devices and load whatever you like on there, even if it means completely breaking the device.
Now let's talk about Apple, shall we?
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I've installed an open-source Android derivative on a tablet before to prolong its life. The point is not that everyone will go ahead and build open-source ROMs. The point is that some people will, and the rest of us can use them.
but will the ATT and other roms getup updates? (Score:4, Interesting)
but will the ATT and other roms getup updates?
Or will you need to unlock the boot loader to load the non carrier rom?
Show me past behavior, not promises. (Score:4, Insightful)
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This 7 years updates promise is thanks to the GKI [android.com], which allows smartphone vendors to provide kernel updates without needing the approval of the SoC vendor.
"GKI 2.0 was introduced in Android 12 for devices with 5.10 kernels and is the new standard for all devices that ship with 5.10 or later kernels."
Note that in the EU, smartphone vendors will have to provide updates "for at least 5 years from the date of the end of placement on the market of the last unit of a product model" from 20 June 2025 onwards. htt [europa.eu]
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Tablets are a mess though. His 2 year old andr
Will Samsung unlock bootloader on US phones? (Score:2)
It would be nice to see CalyxOS on a Galaxy S25.
More like 10 (Score:3)
I stopped using my iPhone 5s last year because some of the apps I use could no longer be updated because they required a newer OS version. It was 10 years old then.
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Wow, it must suck to have to spend so much money on the new version of stuff all the damned time even if you don't actually need it.
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I'm rich because I don't shovel money at mostly-useless crap like phones. I buy a good, but second-hand one and use it until I can't any more. That phone cost me $30 per year, not per month.
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I'm a tech enthusiast who hates phones. Their small screens make them horrible to do anything on. Touchscreens have a 90% success rate when I'm typing, which means every second word has a spelling error. I regularly have to switch between two languages, which means spelling checkers are useless.
I have a phone because it's becoming impossible to function in our society without one, not because I like having one.
I spend my money on computers instead: devices that I actually enjoy using.
The only thing that is limiting us (Score:2)
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In this case, it's Google being the bully here. Even if the manufacturer drops support for official firmware builds, there are still third-party firmware for Android devices. However, third-party firmware will not pass device attestation/SafetyNet, and will be treated as if it is less secure than an abandoned unpatched OS, and you will be forbidden from running many programs such as certain banking apps.
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However, third-party firmware will not pass device attestation/SafetyNet, and will be treated as if it is less secure than an abandoned unpatched OS
Which is probably the right move. If the bank wants to let you self-attest and accept liability, then sure. Otherwise, they're happy to let you use whatever OS you want without having to take on any risk themselves. Banks are already taking on a lot of liability from users as it is.
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It's an arbitrary restriction that provides no security benefit, and is more likely to be harmful.
It's well understood that the devices are in the user's control and should not be trusted. If you start placing any trust in the device itself you're opening yourself up to more problems. You treat the mobile as a dumb client, the same as you treat anyone logging in through a browser or calling the PSTN banking line.
A user who is running the "official" os on their phone is likely to be more at risk of compromis
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There are documented workarounds for the SafetyNet attestation. See: Magisk Hide
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That needs a custom device fingerprint. You can try to take it from the old phone OS, but eventually you'll need a different one.
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It's not the only thing. I prefer Android, but a lot of the charging ports on some of my phones got janky after a few years. Also, the batteries stopped working. Yes, you can get those fixed, but it's often easier to go ahead and upgrade instead of getting it fixed. My current phone is a Samsung that's probably been on the market for three or four years now. I paid extra for wireless charging, so I would have a way to charge it if the port went out on me.
My son used Apple phones for most of his phones. He w
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And yet "wireless" charging degrades the battery more due to extra heat.
Or you can just get magnetic connectors/cables. Then charging is just as easy as "wireless" but charging is faster, no wasted power, no extra heat, and no more damaged ports (because you just replace the coupler). They have been a god-send. I have used them for many years, and everyone I show them to is shocked and had never seen/heard of them before.
They only reason they would suck would be when you are forced to remove the dongle.
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OTOH, I read this announcement more from their prospective. New phone sales are down (that's in TFS). Hardware prices go down with volume. A batch of a million devices used to take N months to sell, and now that batch lasts them N*2 months. They can't keep putting out new versions as quickly while maintaining the same volume production per product line. Easy solution - sell the same product for twice as long! Less work on their part, and they can say it's a selling point that it'll be supported for twice as
Fantasy vs. Reality of tech (Score:2)
And then you look at the current world of planned obsolescence and how quickly technology devices degrade over time, and I wonder if that fantasy future will ever come to pass where my phone will last a thousand years. What an amazing fantasy that is.
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I often think about this with the trillions o
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Negatives also degrade. They can also be lost in fire, theft, moves, and so on.
If you want to keep those pics, have the negatives copied to digital and keep good backups. You can buy pretty cheap hardware to do it yourself or pay someone a few bucks if there's way too many to do by hand.
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Your physical pictures and negatives will degrade over time too, and for every historical photo that has been preserved there are also many thousands that have been lost.
If you want to preserve digital photos there are many ways to do that. You can create infinite numbers of absolutely perfect copies. If you know the media is going to degrade, you can make perfect copies and place them on new media. As a bonus, new media formats are higher capacity and the older images are smaller files so you can store man
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But one big, long power outage.....say we get a major sun flare at us...a BIG one that fries electronics out...there go your images even with backups to a large extent.
Physical images have immunity to that....
Old phones lasted much longer (Score:2)
Just about any phone that worked on the POTS network will work on a POTS line today, even if it's 100 years old or older.
Granted, you may not be able to dial out if it's not touch-tone, but you can answer and talk on it.
Of course, up until the late 20th century, that phone, or at least its insides, were literally owned by the phone company. But at least you knew you were renting, unlike so many things today.
Re: Old phones lasted much longer (Score:2)
The POTS network is going away. The telcos in the US are trying to get out of their obligation to maintain it right now.
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That's cool until the cellular network goes down, but if you guys have enough excess capacity and your network is constructed intelligently enough with proper backup power and such, then it may be viable. Here in the US we have a lot of households with no cellular coverage, and POTS is their only option in an emergency until satellite to regular phones becomes an option. In this country, shutting off POTS is going to kill people.
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Many countries are ripping out POTS and replacing it with newer technologies. Would you like to continue using dialup, or would you rather have a fibre connection?
Update Older Phones (Score:2)
It's nice that they're not competing on new sales with the length of support, but what about older phones that they could easily provide updates for, but they're just not bothering? That would be a move that would build a ton of customer goodwill for the brand.
Not an iPhone fanboy, but... (Score:2)
Up 'til now, the difference in support between 3 and 7 years makes the price difference between comparable iPhones and Android phones a bit less glaring.
Re: Not an iPhone fanboy, but... (Score:2)
My $200 Moto phone offers far better value than any iPhone. Even if it lasts only half as long (past that already) it's still cheaper. And it has features that Apple doesn't offer, not even counting sideloading.
Now? (Score:3)
Smartphones Can Now Last 7 Years
I upgraded my phones because either the cell provider stopped supporting the phone's physical operation (frequency) or required something new the phone didn't have (VoIP), and/or application and Android support hit EOL. The phones themselves were still working just fine. My cell phone history:
= 1998-2015 / 17y -- Qualcomm QCP-1900 [PrimeCo -> nTelos -> Sprint) -- Switched when phone (freq band) unsupported by Sprint. Phone still worked fine.
= 2015-2021 / 6y -- Kyocera HydroVIBE [Ting/(Sprint -> T-Mobile)] -- Switched after App+Android EOL, and T-Mobile required VoIP. Phone still works. Note that it's IP57 certified with a user-removable battery and headphone jack from 2015, and has FM radio support.
= 9/2021-present / ~4y -- Google Pixel 5a [Ting/T-Mobile] -- Phone still in pristine condition.
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Exactly. This line:
"Every smartphone has an expiration date. That day arrives when the software updates stop coming"
Is just plain not true. The phone doesn't "expire", I have used ones long after updates stopped. That doesn't mean it is the best idea, from a security standpoint. But it is still an option. The apps will all still update, and usually work fine. The other option is third-party ROMs that ARE still supported. But those are not easy to find/install, unfortunately.
Anyway, 7 years is welcome
Battery swap (Score:4, Insightful)
Sure, you can support the hardware but what about REAL hardware support? Batteries health don't last that long and when it costs and arm and a leg and quite possibly no true spare parts to get and the ease of repair is incredibly difficult, just how useful are software updates when the hardware fails to power on? It's not like the old Blackberry when you can pop off the back and swap in a new battery though if I could get a phone like that today I'd be totally down for it.
Bring swappable batteries back! :-)
What about the battery? (Score:5, Insightful)
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My iPhone 7 is still on it's original battery and it's about 8 years old. It doesn't last all day anymore, but I don't really need it to. If I did I'd pay iFixit $25 to get a replacement kit. If you can't handle a screwdriver, Apple will do it for $100.
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Most hole in the wall phone repair places will do it for $30-50 while you wait. As in, you buy the battery, and the installation is free.
So you can get iFixit and do it yourself, Apple and do it yourself, get Apple to do it, or just run to a local phone repai
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I hold on to my phones for a while and yes it usually involves a battery change. They recently added an 80% max charge setting which I'm using on my new iPhone and curious to see how much that helps. 8 months in and it still reports the battery at 100% capacity after 143 cycles.
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But the battery won't last 7 years. You'll need at least one battery replacement unless you turn your phone off when you're not using it.
This, it's pretty much been the killer of my last 3 phones, battery or other hardware. In fact none of the phones I've bought since 2015 have been replaced just because I wanted to, Nexus 4 (screen, killed by the TSA at LAS), Nexus 5x (battery degraded to point of unsability), Nokia 7.1 (total failure, just wouldn't turn on one day), Nokia X10 (broken screen), current phone is a Nokia X30 that is due to get updates to 2026.
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But the battery won't last 7 years.
Only in Apple devices. I have a Pixel4a and the battery still lasts me 2+ days on a single charge.
Don't Trust Google (Score:2)
I don't trust Google. There is nothing Google can do to get me to buy another Pixel phone that I'll have to throw away before its time.
Every smartphone has an expiration date? (Score:5, Insightful)
Phones can continue to be used for quite a while after they stopped being updated. While it's definitely nice to get updates for a longer time, seriously, who junks their phone just because they didn't get an update?
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I've retired phones because apps I have to have working for my job had mandatory updates and weren't compatible with the phone OS.
Of course, they probably were, but it's not like I had an "ignore the warning and install anyway" option.
Charge the providers for the problems... (Score:2)
No incentive to change means no reason to put in that effort. Today the only incentive is a vague worry about security for the user, and the PR image of the company. Start charging fees for failures to protect customers, or they don't truly matter.
Why aren't big companies getting insurance to cover issues like these? Oh, right... because they don't actually matter. They give away 'monitoring' by a company they have a financial interest in and call it a day.
And no, Apple is not the answer here as claime
My Galaxy Note 9 is 6 y.o. / #GSOD (Score:2)
Problem created by @Samsung around September 2020.
Looked like an intermittent software bug. But became permanent. And later, I learned that the software destroyed an hardware component or something.
Of course, @Samsung refuses to recognize its responsibility.
Model (Score:2)
>"These moves will make phones last much longer and give people more flexibility to decide when it's time to upgrade."
And, equally important but not mentioned, it can help justify spending more on a better model you might not have considered before. I never buy "flagships." They rarely justify the price, especially if they aren't also going to stay as relevant after just 3 years. But they are more attractive to consumers if they know they will be supported longer. So this might not necessarily just b
Yeah that's great and everything... (Score:2)
More bloatware (Score:2)
Every year, I notice Samsung pushes more mandatory, always-on bloatware into their updates.
The Google 'everything is an app' philosophy isn't worse only because it ended the repeated nagging to download a monolithic OS update.
Meanwhile, Samsung Protect Battery is now 80% (Score:3)
Meanwhile, the Samsung "Protect Battery" feature now limits charge to 80%, down from 85%.
There is no reason at all... (Score:2)
Right thing to do? (Score:2)
up from three years for its previous Pixels, because it was the right thing to do.
The real reason they're doing it is because of Apple. They couldn't care less what's "right", and would much rather provide less support as its cheaper for them.
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Fairphone (Score:2)
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Ok, I'm trying to figure out WTF an older phone has to do with finding dates as a man?
If you're implying it is some sort of status symbol....the idea of a cell phone being a status symbol sailed many moons ago...it's just a commodity thing everyone owns these days.
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