Tim Cook Says 'Buy Your Mom an iPhone' If You Want To End Green Bubbles (theverge.com) 358
Apple CEO Tim Cook dismissed the idea of adopting RCS messaging to put an end to the green bubbles that surround messages when iPhone users text someone on an Android device. From a report: "I don't hear our users asking that we put a lot of energy in on that at this point," Cook said when asked how Apple founder Steve Jobs would feel about using the RCS standard in iMessage during Vox Media's Code 2022 event on Wednesday night. Instead, Cook said, "I would love to convert you to an iPhone."
But the person who asked the question, Vox Media's LiQuan Hunt, came back with a valid complaint, saying that his mother can't see the videos he sends her. It all comes down to a lack of interoperability between iMessage and RCS, both messaging systems that could allow higher-quality images and videos -- if they worked together. If you've tried to send a video from Android to iOS (or vice versa) using your regular text messaging app, then you know that your videos come out completely fuzzy on the other end. Cook's suggestion to fix this annoying issue? "Buy your mom an iPhone."
But the person who asked the question, Vox Media's LiQuan Hunt, came back with a valid complaint, saying that his mother can't see the videos he sends her. It all comes down to a lack of interoperability between iMessage and RCS, both messaging systems that could allow higher-quality images and videos -- if they worked together. If you've tried to send a video from Android to iOS (or vice versa) using your regular text messaging app, then you know that your videos come out completely fuzzy on the other end. Cook's suggestion to fix this annoying issue? "Buy your mom an iPhone."
Tim Cook can fuck off (Score:3, Insightful)
Apple is a lousy company lead by louses.
"It just works. More or less, depending on your definition of 'works'. Now send us money and shut up."
Re:Tim Cook can fuck off (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Tim Cook can fuck off (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Tim Cook can fuck off (Score:5, Insightful)
Sounds to me like the better fix here is to switch to Android, then.
The one that engineers incompatibility is the one that should be abandoned.
Re: Tim Cook can fuck off (Score:5, Interesting)
Sounds to me like you don't actually know the timelines behind Apple/iMessage versus Google/RCS.
When RCS was "created" (2008), it was just an empty spec that sat around unused for years while Google farted around with Allo, Chat, Talk, Hangouts, and probably a few more I don't remember off the top of my head, before switching to RCS on Messages in 2018. Meanwhile Apple, seeing that there was nothing superior to SMS/MMS out there that was not vaporware, created iMessage (2011) and, instead of switching messaging systems several times, throwing crap at the wall to see what would stick like Google, simply iterated on it over the years. iMessage is actually the superior service, offering features (Like being tied to an AppleID instead of a specific phone number, for example.) that RCS does not. And now Google, seemingly having settled for RCS after many years flailing about, is demanding and Appel abandon iMessage and switch to RCS.
Well... sorry not sorry, but Apple built (In real life, not vapor.) their SMS/MMS successor before and better than Google did. And I, for one, DON'T want to see Apple abandon iMessage for RCS. I LIKE iMessage's additional features. And I don't want my user experience degraded because Google, in their weird combination of tardiness and arrogance here, wants to dictate that it should be.
Re: Tim Cook can fuck off (Score:4, Interesting)
I think you'll find "inundated with ads and spam" to be a significant harm to user experience.
After all, it got so bad Google had to disable RCS Ads (built in!) in India.
Given iOS users generally are attractive targets for advertisers, I'm sure they'll be consistently spammed with advertising.
Then again, maybe Apple should do it, let the world know that RCS is useless because of all the advertising and let it die a natural death that way. Let it be associated with ads and spam and tell the world to disable RCS to avoid it.
Re: Tim Cook can fuck off (Score:5, Funny)
Re: Tim Cook can fuck off (Score:5, Insightful)
And yet this is literally what the entire RCS support issue is about. It's not only well documented, even the CEO acknowledges that it doesn't work. I congratulate you for not encountering a problem with something you don't seem to use.
Re: Tim Cook can fuck off (Score:4, Insightful)
Seamless sharing of content in a group between Android and iOS, including a desktop client.
Re: Tim Cook can fuck off (Score:4, Informative)
This hasn't been true for almost a year now. WhatsApp rolled out their multi-device service in beta last November and made it work for everybody shortly after. It's not tethered to a mobile phone anymore.
Re: Tim Cook can fuck off (Score:3)
The iPhones in question? Unable to receive *any* video from me, as it is stripped by Apple. Just shows up as a notification that Apple removed the video.
Just tested it out the other day, in fact.
The fact that MMV here is also straight dumb.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Lice. The plural of louse is lice. Duh.
Re:Tim Cook can fuck off (Score:4, Informative)
Also "led" is the past tense of "lead".
"lead" pronounced "led" is a metal....
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Also "led" is the past tense of "lead".
"lead" pronounced "led" is a metal....
I was using it in the continuous tense, which I believe is still "lead". "led" would suggest they are no longer lead by lice, having been so in the past.
I could be wrong, however.
Re: Tim Cook can fuck off (Score:2)
It should be "led by"; I think it's short for "being led by" - present participle tense.
Re: (Score:2)
And not to be confused with the journalistic jargon of "don't bury the lede" (as in lead, as in lead paragraph)!
Re:Tim Cook can fuck off (Score:4, Funny)
Gotta keep people on the straightened arrow. It's a doggy dog world out there.
Re: (Score:2)
Your just a bunch of gramma nazis.
Ahem, NAZI'S.
If your going to piss them of, doit wright.
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Lice. The plural of louse is lice. Duh.
"Louses" is the correct plural when referring to contemptible persons. See definition 2 [merriam-webster.com].
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Yeah but that's not FUNNY.
If the plural of "mouse" is "mice," then the plural of "spouse" must be "spice."
See? When being funny conflicts with being correct, the former is ALWAYS the more worthy goal.
Re:Tim Cook can fuck off (Score:5, Funny)
If the plural of "mouse" is "mice," then the plural of "spouse" must be "spice."
That really makes you look at the phrase "add more spice to your marriage" in a different way, doesn't it?
We have ourselves to blame (Score:5, Interesting)
We have been so fixated on Open Source, that we have forgotten about Open Specification, and just kinda assumed that Open Source would just include open specification. But we were also so focused on the Evil Microsoft in the early 2000's that Apple was showing to be the savior, where the BSD based OS X, and a good portion of Darwin being open source, we just kinda flocked to Apple, at least in terms of wanting a popular consumer device (we had the Linux guys, pushing for Linux for the Desktop, but that never really went anywhere until Google, made Android off the Linux Kernel (and made everything else closed))
We have allowed companies to be able to patent, copyright and trademark communication methods And a company will do whatever they can do to make money, despite the morality of any particular individual within the org (even the CEO) So for a company like like Apple that has no problems selling a product with their own private protocols, they are going to provide more locked down protocols, because it is easier for them to develop for, and something they could sell to someone else for the right price. While a less popular company, will probably want to follow the more accepted standards, because that will make sure their product is more universally used. Like the early 2000's Apple, who was fighting to get out of near bankruptcy, who did a lot of effort to make sure that the early Apple computers will play nicely with Windows, Linux and Unix systems because they were not big enough to control the standards.
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I didn't fall for the trap either. Give me Linux, or hell, give me Windows, but none of this Apple shit. Lemming food.
Re: Tim Cook can fuck off (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Tim Cook can fuck off (Score:5, Insightful)
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Every Android I've had for the last 10 years, including my father's, my mother's, my kids.
Cool, but like the comment about Apple, this is just anecdata. I've just bought the new Pixel 6a and while it is generally fine, it has a crashing bug in my media player (DoubleTwist) which will reboot the phone. Sometimes it will boot back up to the bootloader with an error message. This is from playing any locally stored mp3, a behaviour that worked fine on my previous Pixel 3.
My boss just returned his Pixel 6 Pro after it would continually drop the connection in the middle of calls. This seems to be a s
Re: Tim Cook can fuck off (Score:5, Insightful)
iPhones really do just work.
Just works is relative. As far as my mother is concerned iPhones don't work at all. Not in an actual sense (and in that sense it's not like alternatives don't work), but rather in a user concept sense.
She simply cannot figure out how to navigate apps without a back button (the idea of looking in the top left is beyond her). As a result she absolutely hated her iPhone and believes Android "works" much better.
That said my father uses an iPhone. My point is that you can't speak for others. What works, what is best, what is use friendly and ideal is a deeply personal opinion.
Signal is superior (Score:3)
Signal is even better [signal.org] while also being free, open-source, and cross-platform. Don't leave home without it.
Alternatively (Score:5, Insightful)
Ditch the iPhone and get an Android phone.
Re:Alternatively (Score:4, Interesting)
That's what is happening here. My wife has an iPad and an iPhone, but they are both a pain in the arse. She doesn't like the iPhone camera either, since Apple removed the beauty filter.
I don't want to pay for iCloud storage either. I already have Jottacloud and Google. Apple seems to have crippled them on iOS, because only their iCloud backup app can run in the background and remembering to keep the other ones open long enough to sync is obviously going to lead to disaster.
Her next device will be Android.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
It's kind of sad that her reason for not liking the toy is the removal of a vanity feature designed to allow her to at best misrepresent herself to others, and at worst feed into the constant bombardment of "be beautiful or be shunned" that all that social media, marketers and phone manufacturers are pushing. If anything the removal of that filter is a plus in my book.
You should prolly tell her you love her more often or something.
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It's kind of sad that her reason for not liking the toy is the removal of a vanity feature designed to allow her to at best misrepresent herself to others, and at worst feed into the constant bombardment of "be beautiful or be shunned"
That's literally what Apple is about, so it should surprise nobody.
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It's the HD effect. Everyone looked good on SD TV broadcasts because the low video resolution smoothed out their features.
Then HD came along and suddenly you could see every pore, every dangling nose hair, the glue holding fake eyelashes in. Make-up often made it worse.
Google's camera app has a beauty filter, but it's very subtle. The photos still look like you, just not in such exquisite detail that every tiny imperfection is visible. Professional photographers would use lighting or a bit of light make-up
Why don't poor people just buy more money? (Score:5, Insightful)
Tim's "Let them eat cake!"-moment.
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Don't you guys have phones?
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In defense of that braindead moment, Blizzard is now making fuck-you amounts of money with the product that started that meme.
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Fair, Tim's just comment rang the same bells, brain-fart/tone-deaf PR moment from a company with a Scrooge McDuck style money tower.
Re: Why don't poor people just buy more money? (Score:2)
Nobody is asking Apple to buy their mom an iPhone. The comparison is to how tone deaf the comment was.
Re: (Score:3)
I get the indignation from the technical community, but if you expected the CEO of Apple to say anything other than "Buy more Apple products," well..
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I get the indignation from the technical community, but if you expected the CEO of Apple to say anything other than "Buy more Apple products," well.
On one hand, expecting Tim Cook to say anything other than that is stupid. On the other hand, it's also not unreasonable. I remember a time when Slashdot would have come together to flame roast Apple for its lack of interoperability and use of open standards. Now there are as many people making excuses for it (like you) as there are people speaking out against it. Pathetic.
Apple is engaging in deliberately anticompetitive behavior to leverage the fact that people are trapped inside of their software ecosyst
encryption (Score:2)
Encryption is more important to me that being able to send pics or videos to Android users. The wiki says that encryption is something Google extended to the version they use, does that mean I will have an encrypted conversation with an Android phone?
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You trust your phone?
Re:encryption (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:encryption (Score:4, Interesting)
So you're using Signal? Android has that.
Or is encryption actually unimportant to you?
In Europe nobody uses iMessage (Score:5, Informative)
In Europe nobody uses iMessage. I don't own an iPhone, but I would receive way more fallback SMSes if my friends did. Only my luddite dad sends me SMSes and it's from a feature phone.
We have WhatsApp and Telegram. Have a wider set of features I ever would imagine compared to iMessage, and then again I don't have to imagine a lot because most of the features are more of 50% of your audience had Android
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My friend groups fall into telegram or signal. I haven't received a SMS from a person in years.
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In Europe nobody uses iMessage.
Interesting. I use iMessage. And I’m not entirely sure, but last time I’d checked, Denmark was in Europe.
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Re:In Europe nobody uses iMessage (Score:5, Funny)
Haha you stupid USians having a poor experience due to proprietary software!
We Europeans are smart and we collectively decided to use proprietary software from a company that is known to not value privacy.
Re: In Europe nobody uses iMessage (Score:5, Insightful)
RCS is a dumpster fire (Score:5, Insightful)
RCS is just not the right solution. Weeks ago Google tried to AstroTurf Apple into making this change with a rather deceptive marketing push. You can always tell a tech product is not a leader when they resort to marketing jargon and emotional arguments, rather than the product's actual features/benefits.
Too bad if you are on Verizon. You can use RCS, but only to other Verizon network users.
https://www.verizon.com/suppor... [verizon.com]
"Verizon's Advanced Messaging is currently not compatible with other carriers. Advanced Messaging messages that are sent to another carrier will fall back to SMS / MMS format."
Oh.. and what about the built in advertising the RCS has?
https://techcrunch.com/2022/06... [techcrunch.com]
What is Google's track record with messaging again?
https://arstechnica.com/gadget... [arstechnica.com]
Re: (Score:2)
I've often said that Email would not be invented nowadays. It's not proprietary enough.
Use Signal (Score:3, Insightful)
Well. You can always use Signal or another more secure third party messaging app. Signal is not integrated with SMS but it can share videos, pictures texts etc. without giving the data to Facebook, Google or Apple.
Re:Use Signal (Score:4, Informative)
Well. You can always use Signal or another more secure third party messaging app. Signal is not integrated with SMS but it can share videos, pictures texts etc. without giving the data to Facebook, Google or Apple.
If you allow it to be the primary messaging app, it handles SMS too.
Re:Use Signal (Score:4, Insightful)
And who's fault is it that you can't change default applications for SMS on an iPhone?
Oh, right. It's the guys that refuse to adopt any cross-platform messaging that they don't fully control.
The correct answer is... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:The correct answer is... (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't trust Signal, the company or the app. The protocol is fine, but the app is bloated crap which means a massive attack surface as it tries to take over every vaguely messaging related function of your phone. It's got a bloody cryptocurrency wallet in it now.
Signal the corporation won't interoperate with other clients, so you have to use their crapware.
Telegram with an unofficial client that defaults to maximum security might be a decent replacement. The EFF gave it top marks, the same as Signal. Telegram has some advantages, like support for DIY IoT devices if you are into that.
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, Signal is good enough for now. If you can get past the "app fatigue" most people have with their smartphones then they do warm up to Signal when people they love are also using it. The ongoing problem is just that an outdated version of Signal has inter-op issues with a fresh updated install. Lots of people never update the apps on their phone or start the app after a power loss event so it's not as reliable in the sense that messages can sometimes go /dev/null for 6-8 months.
Matrix protocol is the rea
Re: (Score:3)
> Signal is great in many ways, but two things keep me away:
> * No web interface (there is a downloadable EXE client)
The Signal people do not want to be able to see your messages, ever. Running a webserver would require that.
> * No persisted chat history (this is a feature for some, but I hate losing my chat history when I lose my device)
Signal has backups and does just that. You have to turn it on and preserve the file yourself. So Signal people can never see your messages.
If they had to engage
Buy your mom an Android. (Score:4, Informative)
Some models even have better technology like SD card readers, and 3.55mm audio jacks.
Re: (Score:2)
The last couple of mine had USB-C as well.
An added benefit for me is that my phone didn't get to be so because of a legal department and other questionable business practices!
WhatsApp and Signal (Score:2)
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I use SMS/MMS, with large attachments via email. This combo does everything I need to do, and it interoperates with everyone. If there's anything it doesn't do, I don't need to do it.
does not support that many languages (Score:2)
The walled garden gets more aggressive (Score:2)
Time to hit them with the anti-trust club and make them be interoperable or else...
Moron! (Score:3)
If you want to take over a market setting up a 'walled garden' is a great path to failure.
Just make your product work seamlessly so the users don't ever notice and then you have a chance to dominate a market.
My kid wanted an Android phone back in the day (Score:2)
He's right (Score:2)
"I don't hear our users asking that we put a lot of energy in on that at this point,"
Small wonder, 'his' users don't see them.
Just stop using Apple Messages with your mother. (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Or, you know, Apple needs a Steve Jobs, to keep the runaway greed without much advancement in check.
Re:Android (Score:5, Insightful)
Or, you know, Apple needs a Steve Jobs, to keep the runaway greed without much advancement in check.
Runaway greed == walled garden
Walled garden? Jobs loved it.
QED, Jobs would not have improved this situation even slightly. He kept expansion off the original Macintosh to dissuade users from buying third-party upgrades, remember? Jobs LOVED anticompetitive bullshit. You people who suggest Jobs would have fixed this know fucking nothing about Steve Jobs. He was an asshole from head to toe.
Re: Android (Score:4, Funny)
That is a bit mean! Steve Jobs had his good points.
I can't think of any, but he may well have had some.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
That is a bit mean! Steve Jobs had his good points.
Yeah, most of them were in his pancreas.
Re: Android (Score:4, Insightful)
The community hatred of Jobs robs us of any understanding of Jobs' unique brilliance and singular achievements.
Refusing to learn from his example is like insisting that poker is a game of chance, and refusing to learn from the handful of folks who qualify for the World Series of Poker every single year, year after year.
Jobs didn't *just* create the iPhone. Or the iPad. Or the iMac. Or Pixar. Or NeXT. Or Macintosh. Or Apple. He did all of that in one life, each time running up against established industry behemoths and thoroughly defeating them. Each time changing the technology scene entirely.
Say what you want, but I'll tolerate the parking in handicapped spots in trade for that.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
The community hatred of Jobs robs us of any understanding of Jobs' unique brilliance and singular achievements.
There was no unique brilliance. Anyone can be a dick.
Jobs didn't *just* create the iPhone. Or the iPad. Or the iMac. Or Pixar. Or NeXT. Or Macintosh. Or Apple.
Right, the only one of those things he can really take credit for is NeXT. He did none of those other things by himself, and literally every single one of those products is a refinement of someone else's product... including NeXT. Which, BTW, was a sad little niche also-ran which ran originally on ludicrously expensive hardware and then later on a tiny subset of PCs (poor hardware support) before Apple hired Jobs back. And oh yeah, was also inferior to Be
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There was no unique brilliance.
Why does essentially everyone who knew him, worked with him, wrote about him, or used his products disagree with you on that?
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The two options aren't mutually exclusive. He was generally and pretty universally regarded as a huge asshole by basically everybody that knew him. A lot of people put up with it for various reasons, but it's not really a debate. Even the people he worked with who ultimately loved him will generally admit he was a challenge to work with.
He also had a pretty unique vision for how he wanted things, and wanted products, and a lot of the times that happened to match up very well with what consumers wanted. He k
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Because of the RDF, of course.
Opposites attract, eh? ;)
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time running up against established industry behemoths and thoroughly defeating them.
With the help of a lot of questionable lawyers!
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Jobs didn't start Pixar, he bought it from Lucasfilm.
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The community hatred of Jobs robs us of any understanding of Jobs' unique brilliance and singular achievements.
It's because he wasn't that unique, brilliant or achieved much at all. He stole off the work of others and the only thing he did was make sure his name was on every patent as "co-inventor".
In reality it's held back the advancement of the industry for years because of Apple's refusal to use commons standards.
But what we really dislike is the cult he created. Most people tend to dislike cult leaders because they're really just scum with a good marketing department.
I will say what I want, then (Score:5, Insightful)
Jobs was extremely good at understanding what the general public wanted, even if they didn't know what they wanted themselves and even if it didn't exist yet. That's a skill a lot of tech people are extremely lacking in, which is one of the reasons his expertise in it rocketed Apple so far ahead of the competition in many of their pursuits.
But that's about the limit of what I'll credit him with. He wasn't some tech Jesus to which we should all pray to for blessings. He was a prick whose brain happened to be wired in a particular way that made him really good at a particular thing. Being naturally talented at something isn't praiseworthy in and of itself. And while there is some good that came from Apple -- generally in line with Woz' vision of making technology accessible to the masses and enriching their lives -- I don't really think any of that was intentional on Jobs' part. He wanted to sell a product and he had the skills to do it. He also parked in the handicapped parking spaces and dodged child support. Fuck him.
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And even that is solved by just not using the default messaging app on either device. Google and Apple have managed to fuck it up so bad that a Meta property (Whatsapp) is the better solution. It works equally well on either iPhone or Android, it sends videos in full resolution regardless of platform, it doesn't encourage "blue bubble" or "green bubble" idiocy, it has its own voice and video calling that works with any data connection (which means working with data-only SIMs internationally). The only p
Re: (Score:2)
Why do I suddenly get reminded of the old joke:
Question for great Radio Yerevan: Is it possible to introduce Communism in Switzerland?
Answer from great Radio Yerevan: Sure. But what unforgivable crime did the Swiss commit?
So what unforgivable crime did Android commit?
Re: (Score:3)
To all the Android users reading this, do you really give a crap that you can't send a video to an iPhone?
Yes. The rest of my family is on iPhones and every time someone sends a video to our chat group, it's downsized to an MMS and none of us enjoys it. It's lead my family to have 2 separate family chat threads, and me often being left out from seeing a video that they thought they sent me.
And no, I'm not getting an iOS device. I don't want to have to "break" something to be able to sideload apps that I'm not actively developing and I don't like the look or feel of iOS.
Re:Really? (Score:4, Insightful)
I must say, it always confused me why people in US continue to use the god awful "first party" implementations when telegram, signal and whatsapp exist.
Re: (Score:3)
> Yes. The rest of my family is on iPhones and every time someone sends a video to our chat group, it's downsized to an MMS
Geez, how do you live?!
But seriously, use Telegram. Or Messager. Or WhatsApp. Or one of the dozens of similar solutions to this problem that have existed for years already. I strongly suspect 80% of the phones you're referring to already have one of those installed.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
I think that's only if you include the low end phone share.
If you're looking at the upper end of the phones out there, the smart phones, I thought I read something that iPhone was leading. For sure in the US, and starting to in other parts of the world?
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
If you're looking at the upper end of the phones out there, the smart phones, I thought I read something that iPhone was leading. For sure in the US, and starting to in other parts of the world?
Apple has about 48% of the smartphone market in the USA, but it has far less literally everywhere else in the world. It's the single most popular brand in the USA, but it does just get edged out by all the Android handset manufacturers combined. Samsung has about 30%, so we can see that American consumers just love to be reamed.
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Apple has about 48% of the smartphone market in the USA, but it has far less literally everywhere else in the world.
No, there is another country where iOS is even more popular: Japan.
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Getting reamed how, exactly? Samsung's Galaxy phones are just as expensive as iPhones.
Right. They also provide shit value. You spotted the critical fact but missed the essential point.
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I think that's only if you include the low end phone share.
What would be odd about including the low end phone share?
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I think that's only if you include the low end phone share.
What would be odd about including the low end phone share?
Apple does not compete in the bargain basement mobile phones market segment so if you want to get a realistic comparison of how Apple is doing you stick to comparing them to others who compete in the market segments Apple competes in since people who can afford medium to high end stuff are normally not tempted to buy the bargain basement stuff made by no-name manufacturers.
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Not a bit. Most of my friends use Android devices. I guess. The only time I hear from an iPhone user is to complain about some bullshit like this or to namedrop their choice of phone. I can't be arsed to put up with this kind of crap.
I've been using iPhones since the 3G came out. I have literally never had this problem. The first I ever heard of it was from a Fandroid on Slashdot even though i regularly swap videos and other media with normal Android users that don't suffer from a Captain Ahab syndrome regarding Apple.
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Yes, as my wife, and the majority of my extended family use iPhones. It's a pain in the ass that doesn't need to exist, except for the greedy fuckery of Apple.
There was a time when Slashdot readers could recognize "Embrace, Extend, Eliminate" for what it was. Apparently that time has passed, because that's exactly what Apple has done with MMS.
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From what I see online, it is iPhone owners that exclude the "green bubble riffraff" from their social circles.
Re: (Score:2)
So what? If that's true, why the fuck would anyone want to have anything to do with people like that, ever? Be thankful they're telegraphing what insufferable cunts they are, right up front.
People need to grow a pair, and while they're at it, quit worrying about shit that really doesn't matter at all. Life's too short to waste on, "oh no, green bubbles."