The FSF Says ThinkPenguin's Wireless-N Mini Router 'Respects Your Freedom' (fsf.org) 36
Friday the Free Software Foundation awarded their coveted "Respects Your Freedom" (RYF) certification to another new product: the Free Software Wireless-N Mini Router v3 (TPE-R1300) from ThinkPenguin, Inc.
Just 45 products currently hold the FSF's certification "that these products meet the FSF's standards in regard to users' freedom, control over the product, and privacy." (That is to say, they run on 100% free software, allow the installation of modified software, and are free from DRM, spyware and tracking.) The FSF writes: As with previous routers from ThinkPenguin, the Free Software Wireless-N Mini Router v3 ships with an FSF-endorsed fully free embedded GNU/Linux distribution called libreCMC. It also comes with a custom flavor of the U-Boot boot loader, assembled by Robert Call, who is the maintainer of libreCMC and a former FSF intern.
The router enables users to run multiple devices on a network through a VPN service, helping to simplify the process of keeping their communications secure and private. While ThinkPenguin offers a VPN service, users are not required to purchase a subscription to their service in order to use the router, and the device comes with detailed instructions on how to use the router with a wide variety of VPN providers...
"ThinkPenguin once again demonstrates a long-standing commitment to protecting the rights of their users. With the latest iteration of the Wireless-N Mini Router, users know that they'll have up to date hardware they can trust for years to come," said the FSF's licensing and compliance manager, Donald Robertson, III.
Phoronix points its readers to the device's page at ThinkPenguin.com "should you be looking to build out your wireless network using the decade old 802.11n standard."
Just 45 products currently hold the FSF's certification "that these products meet the FSF's standards in regard to users' freedom, control over the product, and privacy." (That is to say, they run on 100% free software, allow the installation of modified software, and are free from DRM, spyware and tracking.) The FSF writes: As with previous routers from ThinkPenguin, the Free Software Wireless-N Mini Router v3 ships with an FSF-endorsed fully free embedded GNU/Linux distribution called libreCMC. It also comes with a custom flavor of the U-Boot boot loader, assembled by Robert Call, who is the maintainer of libreCMC and a former FSF intern.
The router enables users to run multiple devices on a network through a VPN service, helping to simplify the process of keeping their communications secure and private. While ThinkPenguin offers a VPN service, users are not required to purchase a subscription to their service in order to use the router, and the device comes with detailed instructions on how to use the router with a wide variety of VPN providers...
"ThinkPenguin once again demonstrates a long-standing commitment to protecting the rights of their users. With the latest iteration of the Wireless-N Mini Router, users know that they'll have up to date hardware they can trust for years to come," said the FSF's licensing and compliance manager, Donald Robertson, III.
Phoronix points its readers to the device's page at ThinkPenguin.com "should you be looking to build out your wireless network using the decade old 802.11n standard."
Who would use this? (Score:2, Informative)
Freedom is great, but who in their right mind would setup an 802.11n (WiFi 4) network in this day and age? If this had 'only' been 802.11ac (WiFi 5) I would still consider it a silly release given that 802.11ax (WiFi 6) is out and seeing widespread adoption.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Security and speed are trade-offs here. Not everybody has equal weighting on all criteria.
Besides, Wifi 6 is broken and 6.1 will be needed to fix it. Make sure you'll get a 6.1 update if you're buying today.
Re:Who would [buy] this? (Score:5, Insightful)
Fixed that Subject for you. Sort of joking with the FTFY genre, but I think you are missing something important. Yes, security and speed involve trade-offs, but the financial model is another dimension with trade-offs that should be considered. Blame rms for that one, too? Too much confusion about the senses of "free", so rms always chose to basically ignore the money.
Can you imagine the difference if this wireless router supported an alternative economic model to disrupt the existing ISPs and mobile phone companies? The main requirement would be seriously strong support for mesh networking. What if most of the network traffic, especially viral stuff that consumes so much bandwidth, was completely removed from the control of the private companies and their government regulators? What if most of your communications and network data were flowing directly among wireless routers that we, the people, actually owned and controlled? Is that a REAL freedom that you would pay for? Even with actual money? I remind you that "Possession is nine points of the law."
(Yeah, I'm leaving out the trade-offs involving local caching and gateways to long distance (inter-city) links, but my main point is the linkage between "freedom" and economic models. So sue me. Or better yet, you can ask questions, though I think the implications are intuitively obvious to the most casual observer. (Yeah, another genre of jokes.))
Re:Who would use this? (Score:5, Interesting)
People who use unsafe std c libraries... especially where performance isn't even remotely an issue... with no bounds checks should not be coding such things.
This looks like a barely hobbyist grade project.
Re: Who would use this? (Score:2, Insightful)
Somebody with standards.
Like not wanting to be a prostitute.
Sadly, the crooks made the price of freedom too high for almost all of us. (Give it two more decades, before it's starting to turn into porison time for them. Think right to repair gradually evolving into an analog to the lawsuits against the tobacco industry and polluters.)
Re:Who would use this? (Score:4, Informative)
These look a lot like the Gli-net AR-150 mini routers which run OpenWRT/DDWRT which I have used quite a bit to setup quick wifi access or use as a client node and connect to an existing network. They're not really great as a dedicated AP but having the flexibility of open source router software, being able to just power it via USB and you can chuck it in a toolbag it comes in handy. It's good for travel too since you can connect it to a hotel wifi network, put up a VPN and then connect your devices to that instead.
It's absolutely more of a handy field use device than anything close to infrastructure.
Re: (Score:2)
The AR150 is an Atheros9331 device with just one antenna, similar to the TPE-R1300 v2. The v3 of the TPE-R1300 is more similar to the GL.iNet GL-AR300M16-Ext: Same SOC (QCA9531), same memory (128MB RAM + 16 NOR-flash), same Wifi (two antennas, 300M 802.11n). The GL-AR300M16-Ext costs about half as much as its ThinkPenguin twin, if you can find it.
Re: (Score:3)
These look a lot like the Gli-net AR-150 mini routers which run OpenWRT/DDWRT
Per their page it runs a version of OpenWRT:
LibreCMC was built from the Linux-libre kernel and a stripped down version of OpenWRT without any of the non-free bits. LibreCMC is the leading free software distribution designed for routers and other embedded distributions today.
The older TPE-R1200 runs on a Atheros AR9331 SOC just like the AR-150, this TPE-R1300 runs on the Qualcomm QCA9531 SOC like the GL.iNet GL-AR300M-Lite, GL-AR750 and the GL-X750 (Spitz) and a bunch of other hardware (see: https://openwrt.org/tag/qca953... [openwrt.org] for the full list)
It's absolutely more of a handy field use device than anything close to infrastructure.
That is how it looks to me as well.
Aaron Z
Re:Who would use this? (Score:4, Insightful)
People who really care about Free software, which is - not that many, if we're honest.
You can already flash quite a lot of home routers out there with open source software. There are a ton of options out there. "Can be flashed with open source firmware" is even a selling point and shows up on the boxes of some home routers.
This story seems to be more to answer the question of "WTF does the FSF even do these days" than anything else. The answer is apparently give out awards that no one else really cares about.
My router currently uses an open source firmware but I think that includes non-Free software - that is, software that's licensed under open source licenses but isn't technically "Free" as defined by the FSF. But really, what do I care? The router works, the source I'm running it on is open, and I have basically full control over it. But it wouldn't be eligible for this "award" because it came with proprietary firmware (that I had to replace because it also came with security bugs that were never patched).
Re:Who would use this? (Score:5, Interesting)
People who really care about Free software, which is - not that many, if we're honest.
i spent considerable time with Chris and Bob, and found out that Chris used to work for Lindows (aka Linspire). Chris was a QA Engineer at the time, checking that proprietary products (PCI cards, USB modems, Sound cards) actually worked. he was shocked to find that the failure rate was insanely high.
this was what inspired him to start Thinkpenguin: actually vetting the hardware in advance, to make sure that it worked, and only selling hardware that worked, worked well, and stayed working even after an upgrade.
he told me several nightmare stories of PCIe and USB cards that bricked Intel PCs due to silicon and BIOS level errata, how he got people calling up from rural areas in the U.S. because he was literally the only supplier in the country of USB ACM compliant dial-up Modems - this is Windows users btw! - these are people who must have spent a fortune to download the latest version of Windows over their dial-up service using their Windows XP era "Winmodem"... only to find after a reboot that *there's no driver firmware*!
the list goes on and on.
this is business, plain and simple. it's actually nothing to do with some "woo, woo, omg, freedom's soooo important" moronic bullshit, *actual* people *actually* are adversely affected by proprietary products that cost them and their business money because those proprietary products don't damn well do the job. even on WIndows, not just Linux.
Re: (Score:2)
People who really care about Free software, which is - not that many, if we're honest.
Do you count those of us who do care about freedom, software and otherwise, but also must make compromises in order to feed our families, even if at times it makes us feel like hypocritical corporate whores? (E.g., I do use Windows at work, but almost exclusively Linux at home, and nothing proprietary, including binary blobs that isn't absolutely necessary; also, I try to purchase hardware that doesn't require them when
Re: Who would use this? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Fits right in with the Pine Phone and Pine laptop.
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe it has to do with closed source drivers and blobs that new fancier chipsets require? This is not optimal. Peer to peer connection speed on Wi-Fi 4 network is not great, but it's still good enough for more than one 4k stream.
Re: (Score:2)
You know that 802.11ac is just 5Ghz, so the much more expensive routers with ac-wireless are not much better in the 2.4GHz department. They have more antennas for more MIMO, but that's it. And unfortunately the 802.11ac chipsets are much less open source friendly, because they came to market right around the time of a big governmental crackdown on open wifi firmware. Very few devices already support WiFi 6, so these routers really aren't as bad as you think on 2.4GHz. The range of the tried and tested chips
Re: (Score:2)
You know that 802.11ac is just 5Ghz, so the much more expensive routers with ac-wireless are not much better in the 2.4GHz department.
This is a misleading statement. Many second-wave 802.11ac access points, routers, and clients add 256-QAM encoding to 2.4GHz band. While not part of 802.11ac standard, this does bring the 11ac speeds to 2.4GHz band, as long as you have a compliant client. But 256-QAM is not the biggest argument in favor of 11ac or 11ax. We really want to use 5GHz band which allows 80MHz wide
Re: (Score:3)
The advantage of 2.4Ghz is the longer range, and at longer distances you can just forget about an encoding like 256-QAM. The other improvements of ac over n for 2.4GHz are in WiFi 6, not in WiFi 5. I agree that using 5GHz more would be great, if only to avoid the crowded 2.4GHz band, but it requires a much higher access point density. Where you're stuck with 2.4GHz, these routers are OK.
Re: (Score:3)
If it is adequate to the networking requirements, it might be worth it to avoid brain dead cloud dependent junk.
In many cases, it WILL be adequate to requirements.
Re: (Score:3)
I have around 25 WiFi-enabled devices in my home. I think 4 or 5 can use something beyond 802.11g.
And do you know of an 802.11ac chipset that doesn't require non-free firmware?
Re: (Score:2)
Well, RMS would.
And I do know a few people who can finally upgrade from 802.11b to 802.11n and not trip over the myriad of Ethernet cables strewn throughout their house and floors because that's the only way to get anything higher speed.
Anyhow, AC and AX
Decade-old specs too. (Score:2)
650MHz, 128MB RAM. That's not very useful as a modern hoe server, so what's the point? I don't care for yet another one-trick pony in my household. My SBC already can do VPN and be a wifi AP by itself.
And a Qualcomm SoC to break its "respects your *" neck.
Thanks, I don't want a NSA backdoor either. (Probably on top of the Chinese one, added at the manufacturing plant.)
It's a start, and nice to see at all. But it's more of a symbolic token than an actual game changer.
Right to repair can become the start of a
Make your own linux router with Raspberry Pi (Score:3, Insightful)
Want WiFi 6? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Make your own linux router with Raspberry Pi (Score:4, Informative)
And that would be about the only Broadcom router worth considering, assuming you don't mind the binary blobs. That company is so opposed to open source software that OpenWRT has a permanent warning against buying devices with Broadcom chips inside because they're unsupportable with open source software.
Re: (Score:2)
I did this years ago, with a built-in VPN that sends outgoing packets from the wireless clients via a virtual private server that I rent.
Re:Make your own linux router with Raspberry Pi (Score:5, Insightful)
You can turn a Raspberry Pi ($35 for the 2GB RAM Raspberry Pi 4 Model B) [raspberrypi.org] into a wireless access point [raspberrypi.org].
you can indeed... and how much proprietary firmware was required, to do so? you had to first actually boot the GPU with a completely untrustable piece of firmware, before you could even boot the CPU, and then you had to download yet another piece of completely untrustable firmware blob into the WIFI *as well*.
in case the significance of that has not sunk in, here are some reminders:
* broadcom proprietary WIFI drivers with two ehap buffere overflows https://www.bleepingcomputer.c... [bleepingcomputer.com]
* IOS drive-by zero-click kernel memory corruption over WIFI https://googleprojectzero.blog... [blogspot.com]
that latter one ended up actually getting exploited: journalists were targetted https://www.securedatarecovery... [securedatarecovery.com]
then there is, plain and simple, that whilst the actual routers / dongle *hardware* itself can do far more than the proprietary firmware "allows", you get absolutely zero control or rights to sort that out.
example: the USB AR9721 - now obselete due to short-sightedness on Qualcomm's part - was, thanks to *two years* of patient work with the original Atheros team, capable of MESH NETWORKING mode.
why?
because given that the full source code was available for the entire firmware, as properly libre-licensed source code, it was easy to patch. did the original proprietary AR9271 firmware from Atheros themselves do that? of course it didn't.
by delivering a product which has the full source code even of the WIFI firmware, you get the right to use the product in ways that *YOU* decide.
then - even more than that - Thinkpenguin's business model is based on long-term support. i know Chris and Bob quite well: they told me some of the horror stories of customers performing upgrades (both windows *AND LINUX*), only to be completely disconnected from the internet.
why?
because during the course of the upgrade, the new proprietary non-free firmware for the WIFI - the only connection that the person's computer had to the internet - broke. once broken due to some arbitrary unexplained incompatibility, they're utterly screwed. desperate costly investigation shows that "oh dear, the device is obsolete" - not because of the hardware but because the *vendor cannot be bothered to update the driver firmware*
the kicker: *this costs businesses money*.
by complete contrast, if you have a business that uses Thinkpenguin products, the chances are pretty close to 100% that any driver or OS upgrade *will* work, because the full source code is available.
bottom line is that this is actually extremely important and has nothing to do with how "cheap" some random latest piece of kit off the internet is. Thinkpenguin's products are bought by users and companies that want reliable kit that won't cost their business money by breaking simply because the vendor of the proprietary hardware can't be bothered to support it.
or decides that it controls your hardware
* https://threatpost.com/nvidia-... [threatpost.com]
* https://www.theguardian.com/te... [theguardian.com]
Getting off my lawn. (Score:2)
Wonderful. It respects my freedom. Now all I need is a good IDS [wikipedia.org] to keep all the outsiders who don't "respect my freedom" off my lawn.
"Coveted"? (Score:2, Insightful)
By whom? The only reason I even know this certification exists is because Slashdot has run two or three stories about it over the years.
Re: (Score:2)
This! Coveted is precisely the exactly opposite of the RYF certification. This isn't the Olympic gold medal. It's not difficult to get the certification, you simply need to meet some minimum set of requirements for a product.
The fact that only 45 products meet this low bar shows not only is it not coveted, but rather no one really gives a shit.
N? good luck! (Score:2)
I am a few months away from turning off N completely at my company. Even AC is getting long in the tooth now...
stupid to do N... even ac would be stupid for a new product.
Does it run CAKE? (Score:2)
The value add (Score:4, Interesting)
Knowing that it's going to work out of the box the first time without having to spend days upon days trawling forums and fighting with it. The idea that it respects your freedom by only using Free Software(TM) is mainly RMS's political ideology.