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Cellphones Government Privacy

Should GPS Also Be Used For Contact Tracing? (trust.org) 110

Posted by EditorDavid from the taking-a-position dept.
Reuters reports: Google and Apple have sought to build public trust by emphasizing that the changes they are making to Bluetooth to allow the tracing apps to work will not tap phones' GPS sensors, which privacy activists see as too intrusive. But the states pioneering the apps -- North and South Dakota, and Utah -- say allowing public health authorities to use GPS in tandem with Bluetooth is key to making the system viable...

Apple and Google said on Friday that they still have not decided how to proceed. "I would encourage them to go for the 'and' and not the 'or' solution," North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum said of Apple and Google in an interview late Thursday. "During this new normal, there is a place for having solutions that protect privacy and enable more efficient contact tracing," said Burgum... "What Utah wanted to understand is not just who is spreading [the virus] to whom but also location zones," said Jared Allgood, chief strategy officer for Twenty, the startup which developed Utah's app for an initial $1.75 million. GPS location data allows authorities to decide which businesses may need to be closed because the virus is spreading there, and prioritize which contacts of diagnosed patients to test...

Anonymized GPS location data is already playing a key role in an early version of Care19, an app that about 40,000 people have signed up for in North and South Dakota. Authorities currently ask Care19 users to give them permission for timestamped GPS location data, which allows officials to manually call places where users could have spread the virus and ask for names and numbers of others who may have been there at the same time.
North Dakota's governor suggests that not everyone is concerned about sharing their GPS data. "Some people are completely opposed to an intrusion on privacy," he told Reuters, "but there's a younger generation sharing their location on dozens of apps. There may be a set of people highly social, young and going out to bars who may see this tool as fantastic."

And Yahoo News reports another concern about contact tracing. "Some argue the information should be pushed out to a central server managed by a trustworthy government or health care entity, while others insist that data remain on individual devices."
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Should GPS Also Be Used For Contact Tracing? More

Should GPS Also Be Used For Contact Tracing?

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  • Trustworthy government? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ugen ( 93902 ) on Saturday April 25, 2020 @08:45PM (#59991122)

    Trustworthy government sounds nice - but where would you get such a thing? I guess may be we could ask Iceland?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by hey! ( 33014 )

      I wouldn't go so far as to say that people get the government they deserve. That's too optimistic. But you certainly can't expect to get a better government than you deserve.

    • By stopping voter suppression (Score:5, Funny)

      by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Saturday April 25, 2020 @09:02PM (#59991150)
      the trouble with government is we actively limit who is allowed to participate. Then bad actors come in and manipulate the rules regarding who gets to participate for their own ends.

      Voting must be an absolute, universal right and duty. More sacrosanct than any other.

      On a practical level this means:

      1. National Vote by Mail for all elections.

      2. Universal suffrage. If your society has so many pedophiles and ax murders they're swinging elections you've got bigger problems.

      3. Automatic Voter Registration.

      4. Mandatory Voting. Just like Jury duty, it's a duty AND a right.

      5. Finally Ranked Choice voting so you can't manipulate the system via parties.

      The above 5 items are the most important steps, but like any complex system democracy needs tweaking, maintenance and repair over time. Note that I didn't say anything about the blood of patriots. Violence never ends with anything but a change of masters and a new dictatorship. We need democracy.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Toonol ( 1057698 )
        None of those except #5 would improve election results.
        • you need to stop voter suppression or the elections will be manipulated by folks with too much money. They way you stop that is by having more voters than they can buy off with advertising.

      • As much as I'm for 3, as much I'm against 4. Mandatory voting only leads to uninterested and uninformed people making the decision, because if you force people to to and vote, they will. And they will make an uninformed and completely arbitrary decision because hey, I'm here so I can as well vote for SOMEONE. And I think I remember seeing that guy so I vote for him.

        Don't do that. If people don't want to vote and not participate in the political process, let them. I'd rather have someone not vote than having

        • and that's the problem. As soon as you start deciding who does and doesn't vote then somebody is going to run with that and use it to disenfranchise people in order to get their agenda passed.

          The point of Mandatory voting isn't to force people to vote, it's to create one more block on voter suppression.

          • Ok, I'm confused. If you make something mandatory, how do you not force someone to do it? Either something is mandatory, then you force someone to do it even if they don't want to. Or you don't force people unwilling to do something, then it's not mandatory.

            • you're completely missing the point.

              The reason to make it mandatory is that if you make it mandatory then people can't weasel out of giving it to you.

              That is what we have now. I can come up with a thousand excuses about why I'm making it difficult for you to vote and you can't really say anything.

              Once it's mandatory you can say "Well, if you're gonna force me to do it you better let me do it"

              Compulsory education is similar. Nobody questions the buses, free books and computers and all the othe

              • I honestly didn't notice a difference when they finally got rid of mandatory voting for some elections in my country. I can still go and vote like I did before, with the difference that I can now actually just abstain and decide that neither of the goofballs deserves my vote without having to haul my ass there first.

        • But good luck with that, the only ones who could actually get rid of it are also the ones that have a keen interest in keeping it that way.

          Don't be so pessimistic. Maine and California have already reformed FPTP.

          Maine now uses ranked voting.

          California has switched to open primaries for state and local elections (but not federal).

          27 states allow referendums. So incumbent politicians can't roadblock reform everywhere.

          • California is a one party state. It's working great having a choice between uhm... never mind. Might as well save money on elections here. We don't have contests anymore.

            • California is a one party state.

              Open primaries fix that.

              Since everyone votes together, centrist Democrats can appeal to moderate Republicans and independents.

              The two top vote-getters in the primary advance to the general election, regardless of party.

              In many liberal areas, this means the general election is blue-on-blue, with the more centrist candidate more likely to win.

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by Anonymous Coward

          As much as I'm for 3, as much I'm against 4. Mandatory voting only leads to uninterested and uninformed people making the decision, because if you force people to to and vote, they will.

          Better uninterested uninformed people. Than extremist highly interested but completely misinformed people. Anything to dilute the extremist of any persuasion.

      • Totally disagree. Bumper sticker / Twitter voting (Score:5, Interesting)

        by raymorris ( 2726007 ) on Saturday April 25, 2020 @11:39PM (#59991514) Journal

        I totally disagree. I think many of our current problems are due to causes which those proposals would only exacerbate.

        I don't know anything about music, because that's not something I'm interested in, so I haven't learned.
        I know nothing about art history, because that's not something I'm interested in, so I haven't learned.
        I know virtually nothing about sports, again for the same reason.
        There are many areas in which I'm ignorant, fields I don't spend my time learning about.

        Many people aren't fascinated by macroeconomics and don't spend their time studying demand curves. Most aren't foreign policy nerds. Most don't have any idea whether the federal budget is below $1 trillion, above $10 trillion or somewhere in between $1-10 trillion. In fact, in one survey most didn't know the name of the vice president. Not even his name. That's okay - they probably know a lot about a lot of topics, topics they are interest in. They don't know the names of the people currently running the country.

        The issues are complex. When about half of the informed people want X and about half want Y, that's because there are advantages and disadvantages of each. To make an intelligent decision about many of these issues you need to spend a little time studying them. That fact kinda sucks, but it's true even if it sucks.

        Lacking any basis on which to make an informed decision, not even knowing the names of the incumbents, how do many voters decide? Common ways of deciding as reported by voters in exit polls (meaning people who just voted):
        The candidate's genitalia / gender
        The candidate's name
        He's good looking / not good looking

        If you don't know the difference between a router and a switch, we don't need you to make routing policy decisions. It's okay to leave that to the people who do know what a netmask is. If you don't know who Mitch Mconnell is, that's okay - we can let the 80 million people who DO know who he is judge his job performance. It's okay for questions of macroeconomic policy to be by people who know what the word macroeconomics means. Kinda like how we let the people who know the difference between a CPU and a GPU choose the computers.

        • Re:Totally disagree. Bumper sticker / Twitter voti (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Admiral Krunch ( 6177530 ) on Sunday April 26, 2020 @03:19AM (#59991906)

          Is it left to those competent people though? Isn't it more honest to say it's left to the people who watch Fox and believe them unquestioningly. You aren't being serious if you are going to count those people as the 'informed decision makers' you portray them to be.

          Studies show Fox viewers are less informed about global events than viewers of no news at all. [google.com]
          Fox viewers though the coronavirus was just a common cold not even as bad as a flu, untill they flipped and decided 100k dead is a good outcome. (except for the ones that still think it's no big deal) These are you 'informed voters'.

          • Yes, Fox News viewers elected Nancy Pelosi - again.
            After electing Robert Byrd first to KKK leadership, then to the Senate for 51 years straight. Marion Barry and Ray Nagin too.

            Whoever you think doesn't know anything about the issues, you don't want to force them to vote. Those who have no interest in the issues have no basis for making a logical decision. They can only make decisions based on stupid reasons, so it doesn't help to have them making the decisions.

            • They can only make decisions based on stupid reasons, so it doesn't help to have them making the decisions.

              Are you talking about the Fox viewers again...
              They are only making decisions based on false information. Based on the Opinions of on air personalities Not any factual relevant information.

              If everyone was forced to vote. Fox etc would have to expand out and target more than just the narrow selection they are targeting now. They will open themselves up to more scrutiny. They would be forced to become more mainstream or polarize even harder and go even further all in on the crazies.

              Either way is bad for the

        • Most don't have any idea whether the federal budget is below $1 trillion, above $10 trillion or somewhere in between $1-10 trillion.

          Yeppers. And most people think that the Military is the majority of the Federal Budget (it's not even a majority of the discretionary spending. Quite...)....

      • Throw in voter ID and you have a deal. Everything you list could work but without clearly identifying voters the system is ripe for fraud and therefore undermines everything you say you want. Voter ID properly done doesn't need to be racist or sexist or discriminatory in any way.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by shanen ( 462549 )

        Provocative comment, but I can't see the basis for the Funny moderation it is currently displaying. Stepping on GOT toes?

        However my provocative response is that I think I'm in the process of giving up on conventional democracy. I still like the one-person-one-vote idea, but as it works now, the people who vote for the wrong candidate get essentially nothing when their candidate loses. The "winner" ignores those voters (especially if the district is gerrymandered). Voting and then being ignored may feel as b

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by fred911 ( 83970 )

      You have to remember, people in the Dakotas have lots of land, and very little dependance upon law enforcement for quick response. Therefore, they are properly armed to protect livestock, property and themselves. The use of deadly force is acceptable to protect life, home and property. With that type of playing field, most aren't worried about having their rights violated.

    • By adding GPS locations, the friendly ICE people can get on with more arrests and deportations. Get rid of Corona and illegals at the same time - what a great idea. Obviously people who own shopping centres, Nightclubs and Stadium events don't want GPS as nothing in it for them except more losses. Switzerland as usual, decided that GPS information belongs to the owner, and may be encrypted and logged in the phone, and when contacted, the owner decides what may be revealed. The .gov says trust us. Phone tow

    • Governments across America and Europe have ALREADY implemented totalitarian mass house arrest and tyrannical social isolation decrees. These governments are ALREADY grinding society under an iron boot. There is no question whether they can be trusted to uphold human rights - they are RIGHT NOW, CURRENTLY, committing crimes against humanity.

  • Covid itself is bad, but just think how much worse things would be with a virus that was even more deadly, or more contagious...

    We as a species would have to be nuts not to figure out some way to turn the smartphones so many people carry, into tools for backwards contact tracing.

    Yes 100% this is fraught with peril for abuse. But even just to make it a feature authorities could send out like an amber alert, that would blindly ask anyone who is been in a certain region over a certain period of time to allow

    • Just think if the Nazis had this tech! (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Joe_Dragon ( 2206452 ) on Saturday April 25, 2020 @08:54PM (#59991140)

      Just think if the Nazis had this tech!

      IBM helped them.

    • You want to fight the virus? Demand for mass testing! That's the real way to thwart it, along with social distancing and proper hygiene. Contact tracing by using location data from our phones is simply taking away our privacy and for the life in me, I don't understand why people don't value it. It's the very definition of liberty, not having an authority controlling you in all your steps and denying you your own private space.
      • Testing is not so great as you might think. Even if the test is perfect (100% accurate.) If you test negative how long is that valid for? 1 day? You can pick up the virus anytime. Tracking people is just a scam, track them all you want but the real answer here is obviously don't get the virus or if you get it don't die. We need to have the second since the first is too hard to maintain and live in the real world. What we have now is a temporary solution, that is worse than having a few people die IMO.

        • Even if the test is perfect (100% accurate.) If you test negative how long is that valid for? 1 day?

          By the time you've got the test result - even if it's an immediate readout antibody test - it is out of date. Virus in your blood stream while you were taking the test could have actually got into cells and started replicating.

          A negative test describes your immune system's status at the time the sample was taken and at no later time. A negative antigen test describes your immune system's status several days

    • I don't get it. Google already has a form of "contact tracing". Nobody has used Google location history? It's on by default (and on every Android phone by default) and records where you went.

    • We as a species would have to be nuts not to figure out some way to turn the smartphones so many people carry, into tools for backwards contact tracing.

      I am not personally the human species, and I'm not interested in having you track me.

  • Need laws (Score:3)

    by joe_frisch ( 1366229 ) on Saturday April 25, 2020 @08:52PM (#59991136)

    I think restricting technology is rarely an effective way to ensure privacy. Someone will figure out a clever way to turn Bluetooth distance maps into actual personal locations and interactions, without violating the letter of the rules.

    I think its much better to restrict how the information is used though laws - though of course that is far from perfect.

  • Anon location data yes, GPS no... Battery life (Score:4, Informative)

    by williamyf ( 227051 ) on Saturday April 25, 2020 @09:21PM (#59991184)

    Google and Apple are using Low Power Bluetooth because normal bluetooth will drain the batteries to fast. Ditto with GPS (or, more exactly, SatNav* info).

    More often than not, I have GPS/SatNav turned off for battery savings. Mind you location data (sans GPS, to save battery) is turned on at all times on my phone, so it can use Basestations and Known wifi points for an approximate location, but GPS/SatNav only when driving. Besides, GPS/SatNav will not work indoors, like in a mall, theatre or shop.

    So, if you ask me, that's a yes to anonymized location data, but a hard no on requiring GPS/SatNav specificaly. After all, if the battery dies, you can not do any contact tracking whatsoever...

    JM2C YMMV

    * Remember that GPS is not the only SatNav, there are also other global ones: Glonass, Galileo and BeiDou, and regional ones like Navic and QZSS... depending on country, your cellphone may use one or the other (or more than one).

  • If you give the government the power to do this sort of tracking openly they'll NEVER give it up later, we'll all be tracked, forever.
    Me, I don't have or want a smartphone, and I'd break my $40 dumbphone in half and get a landline again before I'd consent to this, and if they tried to mandate having a goddamned smartphone I'd tell them to get fucked. No GPS tracking of citizens, virus or no virus. There are other ways to deal with this that don't entail giving up the last bits of privacy and actual real fr

    • If you give the government the power to do this sort of tracking openly they'll NEVER give it up later, we'll all be tracked, forever. Me, I don't have or want a smartphone, and I'd break my $40 dumbphone in half and get a landline again before I'd consent to this, and if they tried to mandate having a goddamned smartphone I'd tell them to get fucked. No GPS tracking of citizens, virus or no virus. There are other ways to deal with this that don't entail giving up the last bits of privacy and actual real freedom we have.

      You could easily have a smartphone that meets your requirements, but I get the feeling you've never looked into that even once because your tinfoil hat was too tight.

      OTOH, I totally agree with you that nobody should have this kind of control over the population. Attempting to make these kind of decisions for the civilian population ("for their own good") is what leads to things like death camps, armed uprisings, etc.

      • You can shove the 'tinfoil hat' crap up your ass.
        'Smarphones', among other things, are a security nightmare. You cannot properly secure it like you would a desktop or laptop computer. They're so full of security holes that I wouldn't be surprised if every smartphone on the planet is compromised in some way or other.
        Then there's the fact that there's crapware on them you cannot delete, and some apps even if you can delete them, parts of them don't go away.
        Then there's the fact that wireless companies 'man

    • If you give the government the power to do this sort of tracking openly they'll NEVER give it up later, we'll all be tracked, forever.

      This is a valid concern that must be taken seriously

      Me, I don't have or want a smartphone, and I'd break my $40 dumbphone in half and get a landline again before I'd consent to this, and if they tried to mandate having a goddamned smartphone I'd tell them to get fucked. No GPS tracking of citizens, virus or no virus. There are other ways to deal with this that don't entail giving up the last bits of privacy and actual real freedom we have.

      The other way is lockdown/quarantine. Pick your poison I guess.
      You can move about freely if you don't mind everyone knowing where the outbreaks happen. Or you can hide at home "for freedom!" if you prefer.

      • All that is required here is for people to not be stupid about this. I know that's asking a lot but it is what it is.

    • I have a fever, and the only cure is a totalitarian prison state!!

    • But without a tyrannical police state, who will save us from the Invisible Enemy??

  • NO (Score:4, Informative)

    by Retired ICS ( 6159680 ) on Saturday April 25, 2020 @10:22PM (#59991350)

    Given that civilian GPS is only accurate to about 100 metres, using GPS for contract tracing is rather useless. Two GPS receivers, one located in the left pocket and one in the right pocket could report positions that are 200 metres apart. Similarly, two GPS receivers located on opposite sides of a 4 lane highway could report the same position.

    This is an inherent limitation of the pseudoranging algorithms. While 100 metre accuracy is sufficient for target control of thermonuclear weapons it is not sufficient for contact tracing. Applications which require higher levels of accuracy do not use uncorrected CA GPS.

    • Re:NO (Score:5, Informative)

      by fred911 ( 83970 ) on Saturday April 25, 2020 @11:12PM (#59991468) Journal

      "Given that civilian GPS is only accurate to about 100 metres"

      Yes, if you're in a tunnel. Cell phone that see more than 2 birds can usually calculate an exact address. And I have a UAV that when it loses signal (usually about 3/4 a mile away) and lands usually no more than 5-6 inches from where the flight started. And it only needs to see 6 birds for that accuracy. That doesn't even account for new receivers that see more than just our constellation.

    • Re:NO (Score:4, Informative)

      by WaffleMonster ( 969671 ) on Sunday April 26, 2020 @01:40AM (#59991760)

      Given that civilian GPS is only accurate to about 100 metres, using GPS for contract tracing is rather useless.

      Not even close.
      https://www.gps.gov/systems/gp... [gps.gov]

    • Just disagreeing on a technical point here: GPS accuracy is limited, however a huge part of the errors are systematic for all receivers in the same place. So if two receivers are in location X, they'll suffer the common errors for that location, plus the individual errors for the receivers. For proximity, the error is less than the error determining the absolute position.

      That doesn't change the fact that GPS is probably not accurate enough for this (just not as bad as you think but bad enough), and impor

  • This entire post is like discussions about the gender and reproductive habits of Bigfoot before ascertaining that Bigfoot exists.

    The first question is whether automated contact tracing apps are necessary and serve the greater good for all those tracked by them.

    • A taser mounted on the end of a hockey-stick is far more effective at keeping shitheads at bay. The morons that want to run about infecting each other and dying should be free to do so -- however, if they seek medical attention they should simply be shown the door.

      • What so much hatred? Have you been driven _that_ mad with fear of the Invisible Enemy? Will you be so enthusiastic for tyranny when the Covid Rouge drag _you_ away to the camps?

        • No hatred. People should simply get what they ask for. Their God will take care of them. Who am I to argue with their God, and why should I (or anyone else) interfere?

          The Covid Rouge do not operate here, though they may operate where you are. We have closed the border to keep you on your side of it. If you venture over here be prepared to be shot dead.

    • The first question is whether automated contact tracing apps are necessary and serve the greater good for all those tracked by them.

      And when you see "the greater good" mentioned, you know you've gone down the wrong path.

  • Broadening the question to “should there be tracking and contact tracing, and should it include GPS” I would answer “Yes, because the benefits far exceed the downside”. This presents a stark choice between individual rights and societal health.

    I’m living in Taiwan, and I was exposed to the Wuhan virus on a flight and subsequently contacted by Taiwan’s CDC to self-quarantine (did not get sick). I gladly was geo-fenced using my mobile phone ( https://www.privateintern [privateint...access.com]
    • Taiwan has earned the trust of its people. I can't say HK has the same fuzzy feelings. And it is funny that a USA Carrier Captain gets the sack when the Malaria lessons of WW2 have been forgotten 100%., or more recently anthrax and brain damaging 'test' on grunts anthrax vaccinations fiasco. I guess the bottom line is 5 eyes and whatever, don't want to make exceptions for pan-epidemics.

  • In the current circumstances, that's obviously needed.

    Whether there's anyone can be trusted to manage that process is an entirely different question.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • I think having a timestamp is good enough granularity. You know where you were, the government doesn't need to know too.

  • Make those who have not gotten the disease and been cured, thus immune, wear yellow stars so everyone would know that they are possibly infectious and can be avoided.

  • No, eats power and GPS isn't needed. (Score:3)

    by ClarkMills ( 515300 ) on Sunday April 26, 2020 @01:21AM (#59991706)

    Repost of earlier related thread:

    How it works...
    From what I understand...

    Your device is switched into low power bluetooth (2m / 6' / low energy) mode.
    Your device communicates with any other similarly configured devices (other people) exchanging the bluetooth MAC (serial number) information and timestamps the pair/unpair event in a database on your device.
    If user-B finds that they have CoViD-19, they flag this on their device, this uploads their MAC (serial number) only to a remote server.
    That remote server collates all the MACs (serial numbers) and pushes that delta list to all the devices. (May be geofenced?)
    Your device scans the delta list of infected MACs and compares it agains your devices database looking for any matches.
    If no match is found... great!
    If a match is found... your device generates a simple risk graph based on the amount of time paired with the infected user and displays this information (risk, contact time and duration) on the users device. You need to action any events; only your device knows that there has been an exposure (database match).
    Cleanup:The device's database can flush events over a certain period (say four weeks) as we don't care beyond that, no?

    This is what I gather based on a short BBC radio (podcast) article... I could be way off the mark in detail but that's the big-picture idea... they may be more invasive than this and I can see people poisoning the system with alerts unless there's some sort of authentication. Food for thought...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/p... [bbc.co.uk]
    Starts at 14:08

    • Quite accurate, except the data sent to Apple and Google doesn't actually identify your device, but is some random number that is only stored on your device, and not accessible to anyone else. So it is much much more difficult to violate your privacy.

  • It certainly will.

  • How would that even work? GPS doesn't work well inside, and even when it does, it has an error measured in many meters.
    This is even worse at determining if there is a risk of infection than Blutooth.

    So even if we somehow magically had some entity we could trust that data to, it simply wouldn't work as well as much saner alternatives.

  • ... you can trust any gov to not abuse this feature when it's in the field and google and apple support it. The opportunity to use this as ultimate surveillance tooling for whatever agencies is just to big. NSA for example wants this for over 2 decades already.

  • If Apple and Google between them agree that location data is absolutely not needed for this to work, and three US states say it is needed, then Occam's razor tells me that Apple and Google have about 100 times more experience building applications and APIs then these states, so they are much more likely to be right.

    But Apple and Google also published exactly how their API is supposed to be used and how it works, so it is not just that I trust them more to be right on software development questions, I hav

  • Yes (Score:3)

    by sonamchauhan ( 587356 ) <sonamc@NOsPam.gmail.com> on Sunday April 26, 2020 @06:22AM (#59992130) Journal

    GPS
    But the GPS radio shouldn't be on all the time. As others here point out - it'll kill battery and won't help in covered spaces.

    Bluetooth Triangulation
    Instead, Apple and Google probably are capturing GPS positions infrequently. In denser urban settings, they'd scale GPS back further and accept Bluetooth (probably 'Bluetooth Low Energy' or 'BLE') data-packets with high-precision position data for surrounding phones (perhaps those phones performed GPS measurement recently and their gyroscopes/accelerometers indicates position only changed by a small amount).

    The receiving phone uses this data to can calculate its own position, and estimate distance of other phones closest. This paper notes [nih.gov], how 'transmit' phones can also vary BLE transmit power and convey this info in their BLE data packets. Accounting for the variation as measured in the receiver makes strength even more precise.

    Wifi and Legacy Bluetooth Adhoc Networks
    The technique above probably only works for Bluetooth (more specifically 'Bluetooth Low Energy' or BLE). Whatever happened to Wifi adhoc mode? Half of the earth uses older phone technology and contact tracing with BLE won't work for them.

    Privacy and Data Ownership
    Re: privacy -- that's another ball game. I think all data on your phone should be completely accessible to its owner. The user should be able to grant data access to apps. Say, an app sets up a decentralised peer-to-peer social network for a remote mountain community with spotty internet connectivity. Members of the community should be able to effectively communicate to all within BLE or Wifi radio range, without the need for a centralised website or service.

  • Trick question. *Nothing* should be used for contact tracing.
  • They need to STOP this nonsense and stop violating our basic rights. Even if the people WERE okay with this crap, it's useless at this time. It's far too late. It would have been effective if we knew the truth about COVID19 at the beginning of the year and who had it then. Far too many people have it now so there is absolutely no need to trace who has come into contact with confirmed positive cases. It's far more widely spread than most people want to admit. Millions of Americans have (or have had) it
  • I'll be optimistic. These governments thought "if we had an app that reduces the number of infections, that would be great. " Correct so far. Then they thought "If we had an app that could tell the user if they were close to someone who is infected, that would be useful. " Also, absolutely correct. Then they said "We should ask some software developer how to do this'. Excellent idea.

    The developer they asked come up with the _obvious_ solution: Every phone detects its location, and the time, and submits t

  • ... include altitude? Because if I fly over New York city with my phone on, I'm going to be royally screwed.

  • See also the specification of the protocol developped in Europe, with only BlueTooth: ROBust and privacy-presERving proximity Tracing protocol [github.com].

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