/e/ Announces 'Un-Googled' Android Smartphones (e.foundation) 126
"This will probably be the first fully 'un-Googled' Android-based smartphone to hit the market ever," writes Slashdot reader getupstandup1:
The /e/ smartphone will start to ship soon, on high-grade refurbished smartphones. While more and more people are concerned about privacy, it's interesting to see such initiatives, especially considering that it was started by someone who is coming from the Linux distro world.
Gaël Duval started this non-profit project after realizing "he was more and more using proprietary software -- Apple and Android," and "felt trapped inside those Internet giants' ecosystems that use personal data to fuel their business models," according to the /e/ web site.
"We think that /e/ can have a global, worldwide impact as a major open source project in the public interest. It will help by freeing users from personal data spying and advertising. /e/ is about freedom and privacy in the digital world."
They're now asking interested phone-buyers to "register" their interest in one of their high-grade refurbished (Samsung) smartphones "by clicking on the button located underneath your smartphone of choice, and leaving your contact details so we can come back to you when these phones will be available."
Gaël Duval started this non-profit project after realizing "he was more and more using proprietary software -- Apple and Android," and "felt trapped inside those Internet giants' ecosystems that use personal data to fuel their business models," according to the /e/ web site.
"We think that /e/ can have a global, worldwide impact as a major open source project in the public interest. It will help by freeing users from personal data spying and advertising. /e/ is about freedom and privacy in the digital world."
They're now asking interested phone-buyers to "register" their interest in one of their high-grade refurbished (Samsung) smartphones "by clicking on the button located underneath your smartphone of choice, and leaving your contact details so we can come back to you when these phones will be available."
Remove Google spyware and Android is fine (Score:2)
I'm ok with Google collecting data when I use their services, including the Google App store. What I'm not happy with is that Google are collecting my picture, phone number, my address book, the SSID of my own and all other WiFi devices around me, my GPS data, and probably more, without me using a single one of their apps or services -- just by turning the Android phone on.
If you can remove that spyware, then Android is fine, and I'm ok with providing info by using the Google app store, or their GMail app,
Non-Google ; Seen before ; GNU/Linux alternatives (Score:2)
That spyware is designed to be extremely hard to remove.
Actually, nope. It's almost trivial for the /. crowd.
All one need to do is to install only AOSP, i.e.: only the opensource parts of android, the core service. (LineageOS being the current most popular example).
And as long as you have a phone with an unlockable firmware, it's not so difficult.
All the "evil" parts of Android are located inside their proprietary "Google Play Service" ("com.android.gms", etc.)
Now you have to realize that a tremendous chunk of applications actually *do* rely on Google's propriet
Why Android at all? (Score:1)
The entire architecture of Android needs addressing, the complete lack of privacy is just the icing on the cake.
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The only thing disappointing about anti-Google criticisms of Android is that a sizeable number of the critics are just iPhone enthusiasts slagging the other team.
And there's not that much difference between the two closed-source choices.
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Granted this may or may not work for those jobs, but it's certainly closer. How many jobs will you be able to have in 2025 without an android? Will you be able to collect welfare without one? Will you be able to access your bank account/cryptocurrency? Buy things at a store (which are moving first to self-serve checkouts, but will then transition to
Ok serious feedback (Score:1)
1. How do you protect IP without a large company sponsoring your device? It doesn't matter much for the initial period the user is learning to use it, but afterward?
2. Obviously the producer had a lofty goal and is hoping users adjust expectations to support the goal (not unreasonable) but users have their own lofty goals. How to understand users?
3. Support. When a user dials support and the phone rings, is support going to answer like at some of the big companies? Or is it literally the Wild West for those
What's the attack model for IP? (Score:2)
1. How do you protect IP without a large company sponsoring your device?
You protect your Internet Protocol network from attackers using a firewall, among other measures.
But I know that's not what you meant. Because the broad range of meaning of the terms "intellectual property" and "protect" invites confusion [gnu.org], a meaningful way to "protect IP" depends on your attack model.
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Well, if you use the Apache 2 License you don't have to protect your IP, nobody can harm it. Nobody can break the rules, because everybody can use the code. There is no attack model. If you adopt the Apache 2 License, your software will be impervious to property attack, it will have more defensive power than superman! Sturdier than an immovable object.
Consent (Score:3)
Startup decries personal data collection, then collects personal data.
I read it more as "Startup decries personal data collection without explicit consent, then collects personal data with explicit consent." Subscribing to a low-volume mailing list for occasional announcements related to one product is not that much more than the consent that a buyer would need to provide to pay for a device when it does ship. What did I miss?
First thing (Score:5, Insightful)
> "This will probably be the first fully 'un-Googled' Android-based smartphone to hit the market ever,""
And the first thing the average user tries to do is install the Play Store, Google Maps and Gmail apps.
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This! Users are trapped by Google as much as they are trapped by the shopping mall. They go there because they want to shop there, with a wide selection where they always find what they are looking for.
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I used the USR/3Com/Palm devices before I moved to Android on the T-Mobile G1, and similarly my wife had a generally positive experience with the Palm T|X before she followed me to Android.
That which /e/ complains about were not seen as bugs, they were features, improvements over the portable device market.
What Google did with Google's services (and similarly Apple did with iOS) was to take all of those features of devices like Palm, and synchronize them to servers. My Palm Tungsten T3 had contacts, calend
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without the Google services I don't see a lot of reason to use Android for myself. It would just be another Palm Pilot, subject to difficult data access and potential data loss.
Nope. There are backup applications for rooted phones which enable you to capture that data. Ti Backup will reasonably get everything of value off of your device except for files which are just dumped into your filesystem. I preserve those by writing them to a uSD card instead of the main filesystem, so I can just pop the card out in case of failure. Ti Backup (or its competition) can back up stuff like contacts, text messages, and even wifi passwords.
Of course, the problem with backup apps is that AFAIK al
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The thing that a lot of technical people don't understand is that particular technologies/implementations intended for end-users that don't simplify to the point of being usable by the vast majority of uneducated laypersons end up dying off, or at least their growth is ultimately limited, hamstrung by being too difficult for most people to be willing to use. Additionally, even useful technology that people are willing to learn to use despite the difficulty will be supplanted by easier to use technology.
Pal
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The thing that a lot of technical people don't understand is that particular technologies/implementations intended for end-users that don't simplify to the point of being usable by the vast majority of uneducated laypersons end up dying off, or at least their growth is ultimately limited, hamstrung by...
Woah, woah, hold on there cowboy. If I understand how a technology works, and I choose an option that preserves my control over my tools, why the fuck do I need for their "growth" to be unlimited? Where did that come in as a prerequisite? It sounds like a totally stupid one to me; only the tool that is trying hard to be for the average user would even expect the largest growth, but its growth would still also be limited. Everything has limited growth, and the higher quality options are expected to be except
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The thing that a lot of technical people don't understand is that particular technologies/implementations intended for end-users that don't simplify to the point of being usable by the vast majority of uneducated laypersons end up dying off
But in this case all you need to know is two things: which is where your data is backed up and what your credentials are to access that location. That could be any service (including one you run yourself) that supports HTTP REST endpoints.
You simply tell your phone what the data location is, enter your credentials for accessing that location and you're good to go. This scales on level of knowledge too, it could certainly default to Google's service but other providers could offer services too (even much mor
Re: (Score:2)
You're still talking about cobbling on imperfect solutions that require 1) a rooted phone, 2) client-side backups, and 3) server-side for receiving backups to a single place that you have to manage and in-turn back-up, and you don't get the multi-client live access and updating like you get with Google's services.
Don't get me wrong, I feel there's plenty of room in the mobile device market for another player for "cloud" services, and there could even be the possibility of rolling one's own using a colo or p
Samsung's backup app is fantastic, no root/hacks r (Score:2)
To be fair, you have to tie yourself into yet another ecosystem, but outside simple vendor lock-in there aren't nearly as many concerns with Sammy as with Google.
Anyway, Smart Switch is pretty great for local backups; it's completely automagical and works without root, when you need to restore or transfer to a new phone it's like nothing ever happened - wallpapers, home screen apps, everything is literally identical. If you use Samsung gear I can't recommend it enough. Otherwise TiBU is pretty good as well.
Re: First thing (Score:3)
Spot on. I loved my Palm Pilot (1988), but, but cloud services for data are amazing. Show me a phone that syncs well with Dropbox or my own NAS or hosted domain and youâ(TM)ll have my full -attention.
DAV (Score:2)
Show me a phone that syncs well with Dropbox or my own NAS or hosted domain and youâ(TM)ll have my full -attention.
There's this protocol called WebDAV.
It's used, among other, to sync contacts (CardDAV) or calendars (CalDAV).
There are plugins to sync this on Android, and other OSes support that too (GNU/Linux smartphone OSes like Jolla's Sailfish OS)
ownCloud is a server that does also support these.
If your NAS is any half decent, it probably has some sort of "app management" enabling you to install ownCloud with a simple point-and-click interface (using some docker solution under the hood, in most cases) with probably ev
Palm sync. (Score:2)
One was pretty much limited to Palm Desktop on Windows, which was designed for the Windows 3/9x world
jPilot was (and still is, btw) a thing.
Works on any unix.
and did not work especially well on the NT/2000/XP world in multiuser configurations or when one's desktop and files were connected via NT roaming profiles or Active Directory and folder misredirection.
PalmOS supported various forms of "sync over network" (over Wifi, over Bluetooth DUN, over serial PPP, etc.)
That solves tons of headaches with WinNT bullshit.
(I was usually syncing over Bluetooth DUN to my linux box)
And furthermore it basically required using a cradle in order to sync the device. I know, I know, at the end they had managed to do wireless sync and even integrated into a few phones, but it was to little, too late,
Huh? I've been syncing-over-network since my T3, and the options even existed in my ancient IIIc.
and even with these advancements the sync method still basically meant losing or breaking one's device was the loss of much or most of one's contents with no easy way to migrate to a new device if one's personal computer wasn't immediately available.
Backup to SD card ?
What Google did was to take most of those functions (contacts, etc) and put them on a server, where the phone was simply a client device automatically synchronizing that data bidirectionally.
Which BTW is also the take of Palm for webOS, with the added bonus of having several other providers than Google to pick up
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That may be so but at least this opens the door to alternatives as defaults
I have recently migrated from being an Apple OSX user for the last 14 years to POP-OS, and so am interested in doing the same with my Android phone - currently a WileyFox.
For the first time the OS community now has a robust and user-centric portfolio of user-facing products with which to challenge Google / Microsoft / Apple / Facebook.
The question is whether the snowflakes will see past their short term interest and make the effort t
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>"That may be so but at least this opens the door to alternatives as defaults"
Oh, I totally agree, and I think that is a "good thing". And although my posting seems negative, it isn't meant to be. On my Android phone, I use Firefox for browsing, StartPage for searching, a third-party contacts app and news reader, don't use Gmail at all (outside of the ID to set up the phone), and have much of the Google stuff turned off (location tracking is a big one).
But there is a huge truth to what I said- the aver
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don't use Gmail at all (outside of the ID to set up the phone)
You can set up the phone without ever giving Google your ID. I did last night with a new phone I bought.
Re: First thing (Score:3)
The first thing these educated users will install is the open source F-Droid app store, and openstreetmap.
Like we do on the no-GApps Fairphones here in Europe...
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>"The first thing these educated users will install is the open source F-Droid app store, and openstreetmap."
I would hope these would be installed by default on such a phone since the "average" user isn't going to even be aware of such projects.
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I bet a decent proportion of Android users don't use any Google services, because they live in China. Most phones there run Android, but since all Google stuff is blocked they don't use any Google apps or backend.
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Technically all forked Android is un-Googled (Score:2)
No, real first thing (Score:2)
The first major un-Googled Android phone was Amazon's Fire phone. Why replaced a bunch of Google services. Are they preferable to Google? That's an open question. But they probably want to rephrase the claim.
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You mean here if they install LineageOS! Sure!
LineageOS fork.. (Score:1)
Basically seems like a LineageOS fork with microg and a few apps bundled in.
Nothing really new to see here.
Re: LineageOS fork.. (Score:1)
Basically you're right. But the differentiator is the /e/ cloud services. These include email, and Nextcloud calendar, tasks, notes & file storage.
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So it's a *different* big brother. One that isn't large and powerful yet.
No thanks. I'll let the bright sunlight outside burn off any 'cloudiness.'
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That's a different big brother that doesn't have a business model with users's data, and that can soon be self hosted... (it was announced recently).
Definitely not the first (Score:5, Interesting)
Seriously Android is hugely popular in China and not a bit of Google to be found. Not a play store, not a search bar, not a browser.
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Android is hugely popular outside of China. Not a bit of Baidu to be found, Not a Tencent App Store, not a WeChat or Baidu search bar, not a 360, UC or UQ browser.
The Indians also feel the same way about Hollywood vs Bollywood.
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It isn't even the first serious attempt to sell an Android phone without Google Play in an alphabetic locale. See Amazon's Fire Phone, for example.
Also outside of China (Score:2)
Some company, like Fairphone, also offer the option to provide instead only the open-source AOSP (the "opensource OS" of Fairphone)
No Google Play Services at all !
But then it has no PlayStore and lots of app are addicted on the service and won't work, unless you try stuff like MicroG opensource re-implementation.
Sony make available their firmware as part of their opendevices program, but you'd need to fetch the necessary parts and install it your self.
(On the other hand, it means you can fetch the drivers f
Good idea? (Score:5, Informative)
Sounds like a good idea to me - it's time to de-Google the world. Selling refurbished phones is also a great idea, as long as they can secure enough used phones in good condition.
Does anyone know how /e/OS compares to LineageOS?
Re:Good idea? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Good idea? (Score:5, Interesting)
Check out the LineageOS page on Wikipedia, which says: /e/ is a fork of LineageOS created by GaÃl Duval that is intended to be "free from Google". It replaces Google Play Services with MicroG, a free and open-source implementation of Google APIs.
OK, here's the thing about that. I can just install MicroG on LineageOS. Meanwhile, LineageOS doesn't come with Play Services or MicroG, so not only is it not "googled" but it's also not even capable of running apps that require play services. That clearly makes LineageOS less-"googled" than /e/.
/e/ also is a stupid name because it's easily confused with Enlightenment, but that's a separate reason why this is stupid.
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I'm not against that, but I think the main goal is to get people to give them their data, given that they have their own account system.
It would be nice if one of these phones would come out with the ability to sync everything to your own server, maybe set up on web hosting somewhere, instead of using some kind of account with a centralized service. That would be compelling. Someone who can't figure out how to root and flash probably won't be happy without the play store anyway.
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Yeah... not really.
Why do you think microG themselves maintain a Lineage OS fork?
https://lineage.microg.org/ [microg.org]
"Why do we need a custom build of LineageOS to have microG? Can't I install microG on the official LineageOS?
MicroG requires a patch called "signature spoofing", which allows the microG's apps to spoof themselves as Google Apps. LineageOS' developers refused (multiple times) to include the patch, forcing us to fork their project."
https://review.lineageos.org/#. [lineageos.org]
Re: (Score:2)
/e/ also is a stupid name because it's easily confused with Enlightenment, but that's a separate reason why this is stupid.
It's also the name of the Ecchi forum on 4chan, so maybe the phone will come with a bunch of anime waifus.
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LineageOS ships with Google as default search engine and is indeed *VERY* Google-friendly. /e/ project, which is not a geeky thing, but a nice integration of open source software that make a consistent, ready to use, 0-Google mobile ecosystem: ROM, onlines services
The fact is that they don't have right to integrate GApps by default. So it's available as a separate package, which most people will install, otherwise they don't be able to do anything.
I think that your statment really misses the point about the
Re: (Score:2)
Probably worth a read: /e/ LineageOS + microG?"
"Is
https://gitlab.e.foundation/e/... [gitlab.e.foundation]
Fairphone in Europe has offered this for years (Score:5, Interesting)
I have had "no-GApps" Fairphones since model one (they are now preparing model 3)
Incidentally, the Durch company Fairphone is initially geared to fair trade procurement : they design and build devices that do not rely on children labor, etc.
Phones that are new, not second hand.
Funny how this seems fashion now...
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Amazon Fire phone?
How about the myriad of Android phones in the Chinese market where all Google services are blocked?
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I really want to like Fairphone, but I feel I'm severely downgrading from my reasonably-current iPhone to that Fairphone 2. And you say that they're preparing model 3, but really: they've been preparing the model 3 for quite a long time. In 2017, the CEO (now replaced) said that it would come out in March 2018, but then plans apparently changed: they're bringing a new Android version to the Fairphone 2.
And that's what I don't like about Fairphone: it feels to me that they're a really small joint. They have
Nice. Very good idea! (Score:4, Interesting)
I like it. You get a neat phone with unique features and a privacy-edge all whilst protecting the environment and curbing corporate power-gain. I've been using refurbished laptops for a few years now and price/performance/quality is next to none. You get very neat laptops for small money and can upgrade them to current-day specs for little extra. Doing this with phones in a flooded and saturated market seems logical and a sensible thing to do.
I hope this sort of business model catches on.
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Still a proprietary and even-more-closed option.
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what i want to see is (Score:3)
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Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
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a much better approach to screen rotation than the shit "Most of the time I deliberately rotate the screen, it's to unrotate it after it decided me lying down or putting the phone down meant it should rotate it" technology regular smartphones have.
Android Pie fixed rotation. When you rotate the phone, an icon appears in the button bar at the bottom of the display. You press it and the phone rotates. Relatedly, they also fixed immersive mode navigation in one fell swoop, or should I say, swell swipe — because now if the display is in landscape mode, the navigation buttons still appear in the same location as if it were in portrait mode, albeit rotated so that they appear correctly in the current orientation. The best thing about this is that get
Why fork K9 mail ? (Score:1)
Here's why this is a bad idea (Score:2)
The difference between /e/ and LineageOS is that /e/ will bundle MicroG. But you can install MicroG on LineageOS yourself, and have essentially the same thing. There was no need to fork LineageOS. When /e/ inevitably goes under, you will just have to load LineageOS anyway, which means reflashing your phone from scratch and having to restore everything.
Meanwhile, you're getting an old phone. That means it's not going to get any major-version Android updates, which means it's also likely not going to get any
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Why would it not be able to load any Lineage OS that follows the current version?? If it can load one version, then it will be able to load future versions (which is the whole point of Lineage in the first place!).
And so much for the S7 being an old phone, yes it is, but Samsung's quality is at a whole other tier above the average phone. So you should be able to get a couple years use out of the phone - which is what is just about to be expected from any Android phone.
The S9 which is listed on their website
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I you look at /e/ source code repository, you will probably see that it's not "just" a fork of LineageOS.
It's really the whole mobile ROM & online services that is integrated, ready to use and freed from Google stuff.
I don't know if you already tried LineageOS but it doesn't have any "no Google" feature. Even their default search engine is Google. They are actually *VERY* Google-friendly.
Only Samsung phones? (Score:2)
4chan.org/e (Score:1)
Good work Ecchi board!
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Just buy an Applephone, because you know they have your security in mind. Why, they're the most profitable vendor because of their stiff markups; that *shows* they have your interests in mind.