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Netherlands Proposes Legislation To Ban Use Of Phones On Bicycles (npr.org) 143

Posted by msmash from the common-sense dept.
The Dutch government is considering a proposal to ban the use of smartphones and other "mobile electronic devices" on bicycles. From a report: Infrastructure Minister Cora van Nieuwenhuizen published the draft legislation on Thursday, NL Times reports. If approved, it could go into effect in the summer of 2019. It is already illegal to use a phone while driving a motor vehicle in the Netherlands, the news site says. Offenders face a fine of more than $250. Biking is a widespread form of transportation in the Netherlands, and extending the telephone ban to bikes has been discussed for several years. In 2015, then-Infrastructure Minister Melanie Schultz van Haegen concluded that it would be impossible to enforce a ban on phone use on bikes, according to a 2016 story from Dutch News. But the following year, the government began reconsidering its position.
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Netherlands Proposes Legislation To Ban Use Of Phones On Bicycles More

Netherlands Proposes Legislation To Ban Use Of Phones On Bicycles

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  • That's going to really tick off people (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Crashmarik ( 635988 ) on Friday September 28, 2018 @09:47PM (#57393284)

    That use them for GPS/Speedometer/Odometer or the control system for any kind of E-Bike.

    • Re:That's going to really tick off people (Score:4, Interesting)

      by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Friday September 28, 2018 @09:57PM (#57393330) Homepage Journal

      Are you allowed to use them in a cradle in the car there like you are here in California, so long as you aren't texting or doing more than the occasional touch? If so, perhaps you'll be able to use them on a cycle on the same basis.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by JaredOfEuropa ( 526365 )
        You are allowed to use them if they are in a cradle, as is the case when driving a car. Mind, a copper can still do you for 'dangerous conduct' (Art. 5 WVW 1994) if he notices you spend an awful long time looking at the cell phone clipped to the dash instead of watching the road. I wonder if they will apply that law to bike riders as well.

        • Re: That's going to really tick off people (Score:1)

          by Anonymous Coward

          They don't bother applying any of the other traffic laws which bikes are supposed to follow,so why would they do it with this one?

          • Re: (Score:1)

            by bobby ( 109046 )

            A year or so ago I had a cop on a bike give me the finger because I blew my horn. It was where a trail crosses a road, and the trail has very clear multiple STOP signs. The cop did not stop nor even slow down. The trail emerges from behind a hill, trees, bushes. It's not possible to see them coming, and again, trail riders have a STOP sign. I also ride bikes occasionally, including on the aforementioned trail, and I take my safety very seriously. I would stop even if there was no stop sign. I just do

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by kraut ( 2788 )

              I don't understand the mentality of someone in charge of 2 tonnes of dangerous machine that hits the horn instead of the brake.

              • I don't understand the mentality of someone in charge of 2 tonnes of dangerous machine that hits the horn instead of the brake.

                It might surprise you, but it's possible to apply both the horn and the brake at the same time, if one has even the slightest dexterity.

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by dcw3 ( 649211 )

                I don't understand the mentality of someone in charge of 2 tonnes of dangerous machine that hits the horn instead of the brake.

                Then you're part of the problem. Nowhere did he say he didn't brake. He had the right of way, and clearly the cop was being an idiot by running the STOP sign, and should have been ticketed for doing so.

      • Yes. Exactly. TFA is off point with it's language. Mobile phones aren't banned in cars in this way either. They are specifically targetting people *holding* mobile phones.

        NL Times (The source for NPR) unfortunately aren't all that good with language with frequent spelling and grammatical issues in their articles. From the source, type this baby through google translate: https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/b... [rijksoverheid.nl]

        "Artikel 61a van het Reglement Verkeersregels en Verkeerstekens 1990 (hierna: RVV 1990) wordt zodanig gewi

        • And while complaining about NL Times' language a superfluous apostrophe slipped into the "its". Slashdot needs some kind of a Preview function. :-)

    • Or listen to music. Hard to tell what they mean by use in the article.

      • With headphones? As you blissfully bike along not listening to traffic noise?

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by tsa ( 15680 )

          Yes. An amazing amount of people do that here.

        • If you can not hear traffic noise when wearing head phones, I suggest a consultation of your doctor, to figure what your problem is.

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by Hognoxious ( 631665 )

            I don't think it needs a doctor to tell you that you're using the type that go over your ears (as opposed to in them) or you've got the sound up too high.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by xonen ( 774419 )

          With headphones? As you blissfully bike along not listening to traffic noise?

          Ironically the law also covers (`mobile`) music devices. They are probably thinking ipods, or phones used for the music or whatever, but listening to an mp3 player (or more precisely: controlling the mp3 player) is also being forbidden, in effect also outlawing a 1980's walkman.

          I have double feelings about this law. Yes, some people bicycle while looking constant at their phone. But i bet people are getting fined for just checking the time, or making a normal phone call. I'm totally fine with people making

        • With headphones? As you blissfully bike along not listening to traffic noise?

          Why is traffic noise relevant? This is the Netherlands we're talking about. I can get to pretty much any place in my city on my bicycle without ever sharing the road with a car.

          That said you'd be mad to have headphones on in Amsterdam city during peak hour. The cyclists are a menace.

      • Re:That's going to really tick off people (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Brama ( 80257 ) on Friday September 28, 2018 @10:58PM (#57393508) Homepage

        That really is not a bad thing. You might want to hear what's going on around you if you are on a bike.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by MrL0G1C ( 867445 )

          So, deaf people shouldn't ride bikes then? /Devil's advocate.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Brama ( 80257 )

            Probably not. You could make do with a bunch of extra mirrors I suppose, but it definitely seems like an extra risk.

        • That really is not a bad thing. You might want to hear what's going on around you if you are on a bike.

          Depends. If you were in America or Australia or any other place where you share the road with something big, metal and dangerous then yeah, you may want to hear it creep up on you. In much of the Netherlands you can get a lot of places without actually sharing space with a motor vehicle.

          I still don't recommend it though.

        • That's why we banned stereos from cars decades ago, it's a good idea to hear what's going on around you.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by tsa ( 15680 )

        This is mostly about people typing whatsapp messages while riding the bike. Especially young women do that so often it looks weird when you see one not doing it. They cause a lot of accidents and are a danger to themselves too. We really need to end this and the ban on using telephones on a bike is sort of the last straw that our government clings to in its efforts to end it. The problem is that there are more bicycles than people here in the Netherlands so the new law is hard to enforce.

    • Sure, but I've actually seen people swiping away on their smartphones while riding (and, also, walking their dogs - which makes me sad for the dogs) and I just think they're future Darwin Award [wikipedia.org] winners ...

      • Lol is that all? During the Pokemon craze there were people two handed playing pokemon while cycling down the road without holding on to the handlebars. I even one day saw some guy duel wielding phones on his bicycle (though at least he was on the bikepath).

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Niels ( 43505 )

      You can use your phone for listening to music, as a speedometer or even for calling as long as you are not holding it in your hand. That is already the case for cars and from 2019 for any vehicle. Which is a good thing. Besides the distraction of looking at other things than the traffic around you, you probably need both hands in case of an unexpected situation (using one hand to steer will cost you half of your break capacity for example).

      Background information: I am Dutch.

    • Do tou think politicians in the Netherlands are stupid? They use the stuff themselves. Therefore, it will be allowed to use it for specific uses when the device is not hand held.

      • Do tou think politicians in the Netherlands are stupid?

        In a word, yes. But I think that of pretty much all politicians, so it's not like I think the ones in the Netherlands are stupider....

        They use the stuff themselves. Therefore, it will be allowed to use it for specific uses when the device is not hand held.

        Or they'll have a special exception for MP's. That being the normal way politicians deal with laws that would inconvenience themselves....

    • Every e-bike has a control system and display built in, and they all include a speedometer.
      Satnav is the only real concern here.

    • That use them for GPS/Speedometer/Odometer or the control system for any kind of E-Bike.

      No it won't. Ignore the newspeak. The only thing they are banning is the holding of a device in your hand. Just like in the cars the use of mobile phones is not banned and there's one glued to every windscreen in the Netherlands all showing the telltale TomTom Go colour scheme.

       

  • Talking While Moving (Score:5, Funny)

    by mentil ( 1748130 ) on Friday September 28, 2018 @09:58PM (#57393334)

    Next thing you know, Netherlands will ban talking on a phone while moving. Perhaps a technical solution can be found, like tethering phones to walls in houses; for convenience, small kiosks (with walls for privacy) can be put in various public places so you can use a phone when not at home. It'll be the next big thing!

  • If the Netherlands is anything like the rest of the countries on the planet I've seent, the problem isn't the lack of telling people to stay off their phone. The problem is that people tend to not pay any attention to the law, and common sense seems to be subjective.

    Its very hard to police this on a mass scale as it just appears half of the people are talking to themselves. The pretense to pulling people over so far, isn't "They looked crazy to me judge, it looked like they were talking to themselves."

    --

    • How is it hard? Hidden camera, hidden cop with a baton. When they see someone doing it the cop steps out and tells them to stop and issues a spot fine. If they don't stop the cop uses the baton.

      Increase fines for repeat offenders and/or confiscate the bike.

    • Offenders are easy to spot. The offense is not for 'making a call' but for 'holding a phone' while driving / cycling. And making a law against that is a good first step towards more awareness about the dangers. People here have a pretty strong faith in the overall fairness and usefulness of the law, so they reason: "If using a phone while cycling really was that dangerous, they would have made a law against it". Well, now we have.

      It's also good for motorists, even if it isn't policed particularly wel

    • Most likely it will be policed like how they deal running (biking) red lights and malfunctioning bike lights. Occasional police traps where everyone who's caught (by not noticing the very visible cops in time) gets fined. When they do red-light checks in my town it occasionally lead to severe traffic jams since the light timings are not at all designed to cope with the rush-hour bike traffic if everyone actually stops.

      But at least it sets a standard ... that you look around for cops while making traffic i

  • Québec just did this some 4-5 months ago.

  • Already the case elsewhere? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Corbets ( 169101 ) on Saturday September 29, 2018 @12:10AM (#57393670) Homepage

    I’m pretty sure it’s already illegal to talk on your phone while bicycling in Switzerland. Laws that apply to motorists apply to bicyclists, and you can lose your drivers license for actions on a bicycle, so I would expect that phone use - illegal in a car - is also illegal on a bike.

  • Just not allowed in hand (Score:5, Informative)

    by Njovich ( 553857 ) on Saturday September 29, 2018 @02:51AM (#57393936)

    The proposed ban only bans holding electronics in your hand while riding your bike. You can still use a headset, odometer, GPS, etc, just not in your hand while riding. You are allowed to use them when standing still. The same is already true for cars.

    There are lots of kids texting while riding their bike on the public road, leading to an increase in accidents. Things like this are a common occurrence:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

    • Things like this are a common occurrence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

      Without taking away from your point that texting whilst cycling can be dangerous and can lead to accidents, the driver of the car is on the wrong side of the road and the accident is his fault.

      The parked car is an obstacle on his side of the road, which means that he should ensure that it is safe to pass it on the other side of the road before doing so. He clearly did not properly check that and would have created a similarly problematic situation if there would have been oncoming traffic of another kind.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by daid303 ( 843777 )

        Except that there is more then enough room for the bike to pass. Knowing these kinds of streets, they are about 2.5 car wide. You can also see that the driver stops as soon as he notices that he bike isn't noticing the car and moving properly to the side of the road, instead of trying to make a full pass.

        • Except that there is more then enough room for the bike to pass

          There is some room for the bike to pass, but definitely not 'more than enough'. At the end you can see that her front wheel is against the pavement as she lifts it up to reposition her bike to be able to pass the car after the incident.

          Yes, she could have probably passed the car if she was paying attention, but most drivers would just let the cyclist pass first before turning the corner and passing the parked car, especially if they see that they're dealing with a teenager (let alone a teenager on their pho

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Njovich ( 553857 )

        Yes, I should have made that clear, the car driver is 100% at fault there. Shit happens in traffic though, and it helps if you have focus on the road.

      • Without taking away from your point that texting whilst cycling can be dangerous and can lead to accidents, the driver of the car is on the wrong side of the road and the accident is his fault.

        No it isn't.

        She wasn't visible until he'd already started pulling around the parked car. When she does enter line-of-sight, she's dressed in all black with a dark tree behind her, and didn't have her headlight on. (Standard advice for anyone riding open roads is to have head and tail lights on at all times, preferably strobing.)

        But the fact that she's made herself difficult to see isn't the main point. If she were driving a car while texting, no one would be arguing that she had right of way.

        When you're on

        • When she does enter line-of-sight, she's dressed in all black with a dark tree behind her, and didn't have her headlight on.

          You have obviously never ridden a bicycle in the Netherlands. Pretty much nobody on a bicycle turns on their lights during the day. You look like an idiot if you do.
          Also: look at the movie again. The driver has seconds to see her coming. He is just banking on her passing him on the left side, for which there technically is (just about) enough space.
          Also: if "she was wearing black whilst cycling in front of a dark tree" is your defense, you should have your license revoked because you are legally blind.

          If she were driving a car while texting, no one would be arguing that she had right of way.

          Nonse

          • You have obviously never ridden a bicycle in the Netherlands. Pretty much nobody on a bicycle turns on their lights during the day. You look like an idiot if you do.

            No, I haven't. But if "you look like an idiot" is a good enough reason to not ride safely, I'm not too sympathetic.

            Also: if "she was wearing black whilst cycling in front of a dark tree" is your defense, you should have your license revoked because you are legally blind.

            What's the next thing I said after that? "But the fact that she's made herself difficult to see isn't the main point." Yeah, that was just bonus.

            If she were driving a car while texting, no one would be arguing that she had right of way.

            Nonsense. The car is on the wrong side of the road and can only drive there if it is safe to do so. End of story.

            He was stopped. She ran into him. Regardless of where he was on the road, she was the one driving unsafely.

            • But if "you look like an idiot" is a good enough reason to not ride safely, I'm not too sympathetic.

              We don't need you to be. You're talking asinine shit about traffic situations you have no experience with. The point is that you were arguing 'she should have had her headlight on', which is an idiotic line of defense. Your 'standard advice' is bullshit and with regard to the strobing part even illegal in the Netherlands.

              What's the next thing I said after that?

              Irrelevant.

              If you think a blonde white girl on a white bicycle in a 30km/h zone in broad fucking daylight classifies as 'difficult to see', you are unfit to drive or judge situations includ

              • The point is that you were arguing 'she should have had her headlight on', which is an idiotic line of defense. Your 'standard advice' is bullshit and with regard to the strobing part even illegal in the Netherlands.

                Didn't know that about the strobing light in the Netherlands. But as I said that's not the main defense for the driver, just an additional point that she wasn't being as careful as I would be.

                If you think a blonde white girl on a white bicycle in a 30km/h zone in broad fucking daylight classifies as 'difficult to see', you are unfit to drive or judge situations including any vehicle other than a tricycle.

                Cyclists are harder to see than cars. Dark clothes against a dark background are harder still. I'm not saying she's invisible, I'm saying that when I share the road with cars I go out of my way to be visible.

                She had the right of way and would also have if she were in a 'car while texting'. The driver of the car in this situation did not. End. Of. Story.

                Yes, she had right of way, which is in her favor. And she was texting instead of looking where she was going, wh

    • I fail to see a problem here. Why does this require government intervention?

  • Who are they kidding? (Score:3)

    by Xenna ( 37238 ) on Saturday September 29, 2018 @05:10AM (#57394250)

    In the Netherlands, people on bikes drive on the sidewalk (not allowed), fail to indicate direction change (not allowed), drive without lights after sundown (not allowed), drive intoxicated (not allowed) and drive on the wrong side of the road regularly (not allowed).

    Neither of these common offenses is ever punished. The phone ban won't be either.

    Only car drivers are ever punished and then only for offenses that can be easily policed with cameras.

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Well, as a student I did get a hefty fine (~€200) for not having lights on before it was officially daytime. I never got a speeding ticket for my car that was that high, the closest I got was a parking ticket (€180). I never got a parking ticket on bicycle, though I did get it 'towed' and had to fetch it with the police later and got off with a warning. I also got stopped by the police for crossing a light in red on bicycle, though I argued my way out of that because that officer was regulating tr

    • Actually they are punished all the time. The problem is police rarely focus on cyclists. Other than in a pedestrian zone in the city the only time I ever see police is driving down main roads / highways. The odd time I've seen a police anywhere near a bike track they were usually fining someone on a moped driving illegally without a speed limiter or in a moped free zone.

      But pretty much everyone I know in the Netherlands has gotten a fine at least once for not driving with a headlight.

  • Actual text of the proposal is at https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/b... [rijksoverheid.nl]
    ARTIKEL I
    Het Reglement verkeersregels en verkeerstekens 1990 wordt als volgt gewijzigd:
    Artikel 61a komt te luiden:
    Het is degene die een voertuig bestuurt verboden tijdens het rijden een mobiel
    elektronisch apparaat dat gebruikt kan worden voor communicatie of
    informatieverwerking vast te houden. Onder een mobiel elektronisch apparaat wordt in
    elk geval verstaan een mobiele telefoon, een tabletcomputer of een mediaspeler.
    ARTIKEL II
    Dit

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by PPH ( 736903 )

      I.e.: they ban the handholding of an electronic device

      What about taking a call using a Bluetooth headset? Or listening to music with headphones? As long as you aren't holding the phone while cycling (or driving): Legal or not?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Njovich ( 553857 )

        Bluetooth headsets and such would be legal. It's really about the hands. It sounds silly, but it's also the way it works with cars in the Netherlands, so it's pretty well established. Watching Netflix, chatting using voice controls, reading a newspaper, etc. while riding the bike (or even a car) would be fine. Technically you could even use a VR headset for gaming on your bike under this law as long as you don't use your hands for controlling it. Although the way you drive with a VR headset may quickly put

      • Headsets and headphones aren't in your hands. Mind you the other day I saw a cyclist going down the bike path while carrying a 3x3 IKEA KALLAX. So maybe that law should be extended a bit.

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