US Government Investigates Apple Over iPhone Battery Slowdowns (phonedog.com) 123
An anonymous reader quotes a report from PhoneDog: The U.S. Department of Justice and the Securities and Exchange Commission are investigating Apple about its updates that slowed performance on iPhones with older batteries. Sources speaking to Bloomberg say that the agencies are looking into whether Apple violated securities laws regarding disclosures about its updates that throttled older iPhones. So far, the DOJ and SEC have requested information from Apple. Because the investigation is still early, it's unclear if the agencies will actually take an action against Apple. Apple apologized for not being more clear about its actions after the news of its performance-throttling updates came out, but we've still seen class action lawsuits and now this investigation come out. The good news is that Apple will be more transparent about iPhone battery health and performance in the future, but for now, it'll have to deal with the DOJ and SEC.
Investigate! (Score:3, Insightful)
What's there to investigate, really? They admitted that they did it. The information is public. Is it illegal to write software which could be construed to have a useful purpose even if it negatively impacts performance? That could describe features of just about any software out there. Is this something we really want the government doing?
Re:Investigate! (Score:5, Insightful)
It's easier to shake them down than to actually fix broken tax laws. This is the shake-down.
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^ /thread
Re:Investigate! (Score:5, Insightful)
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If it's that or grenading the engine because they determined that piston ring wear (IIRC) was unacceptable at the higher torque?
Dodge did just this with their computers. I have an 04 Hemi and no fuel gage because the newer pump (old fuel pump failed) requires newer firmware. Thing is, the newer firmware nerfed *all* the 5.7 Hemi's because some had a ring clearance issue... so I have a choice, decreased performance and (possibly) longer engine life, or keep it as is and have better performance, but might b
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The initial TSB just said:
"Reliability update for PCM"
While Apple didn't communicate and that may be an issue, what they actually did is no different than this. The only way to get "pep" back in your engine was to buy a new PCM that wasn't flashed, or a newer model of the engine all together that had revised components.
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More importantly, the issue is a non user replaceable battery, which saves Apple money and generates big profits at replacement. So if more people noticed bad battery and more people replaced them, more people would be pissed off about the price. So in terms of longer term outcomes, the idea of non user replaceable batteries, designed obsolescence, loss of user capital worth in the products, also need to be checked. Should expensive phones need to last say a decade, with reasonable care and repair. How much
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The battery that isn't easy to replace allows a larger battery inside the case. My iPhone 5S is about 7mm thick, and if a millimeter had to be lost for an easily replaceable battery that would either have reduced battery life significantly or thickened the phone significantly. People seem to buy slimmer phones, so making it thicker wasn't attractive.
Seriously, if your battery is going to need to be changed every three years or so, how easy does it have to be?
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I think the original problem of phones crashing or the charge indicator suddenly going from 70% to 2% was just a genuine design flaw, a standard engineering cock-up due to lack of testing. Apple kind of has a history of similar mistakes over its whole product range.
It's the response that is problematic. Did they take advantage of the situation to both cover up the flaw and enrich themselves? It certainly looks that way. In some countries they appear to have a legal obligation to offer free replacements or 7
Re: Investigate! (Score:1)
Intel should be investigated over all the shitty Spectre and Meltdown patches then.
Intel is throttling to fix a problem. Apple is throttling to fix a problem.
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What's there to investigate, really? They admitted that they did it. The information is public. Is it illegal to write software which could be construed to have a useful purpose even if it negatively impacts performance? That could describe features of just about any software out there. Is this something we really want the government doing?
It's just a bunch of politicians whoring for publicity, nothing unusual about that. However, if we are lucky they may end up doing some good by stumbling onto a few others in the industry who are doing this because I have my doubts Apple is the only one anymore than VW was the only diesel manufacturer to install test defeat devices. Although VW got all the blame messing with software to enable totally illegal NOx emissions, this has since turned out to be something of an favourite industry sport on both si
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Re:Investigate! (Score:5, Insightful)
What's there to investigate, really? They admitted that they did it. The information is public.
From TFS: agencies are looking into whether Apple violated securities laws regarding disclosures.
Is this something we really want the government doing?
Do we want the government checking whether publicly companies illegally fail to disclose important information to their investors? And punishing any companies found to have done so? -- YES, emphatically YES.
Re:Investigate! (Score:5, Insightful)
Interesting that they are investigating potential defrauding of investors, where as in Europe it's potential defrauding of customers.
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Don't sully the sacred memory and lyrics of the GREAT Francis Vincent Zappa (and the performances of Mark Vollman and Howard Kaylan) by making it into some dumbass, halfassed ad hominem attack on ANYONE, even cd Reimer!!!
Just. Don't.
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You have to document the impact to customers before the penalties can be assessed.
Even if they admitted their mistake.
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What's there to investigate, really? They admitted that they did it. The information is public. Is it illegal to write software which could be construed to have a useful purpose even if it negatively impacts performance? That could describe features of just about any software out there. Is this something we really want the government doing?
I would think their is potential for investigation, the actions of apple at best can be considered poor if you accept their reasons. At worst it is criminal if the motives were what many suspect which is to force users to upgrade.
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It sounds like it's less about whether or not it's illegal to write malware, as it may be illegal to sell malware without telling customers and (more importantly) investors.
But nobody knows whether or not it was illegal. The "investigation" might be less about probing what Apple did, as asking lawyers what they think about what Apple did.
Th
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Why are you calling the changes malware? They serve the useful purpose of preventing the phone from crashing with too much power draw. The fact that they have some negative aspects doesn't make them malware. Consider Meltdown: Intel got maximum performance, but included a major security flaw, which is roughly the reverse.
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And don't let them weasel out of the class action lawsuit with their fake $29 battery replacement offer. A coworker's son works at the local Apple store, and he said they're refusing to do about 90% of the replacements. I know the devices I took in from work were all denied due to one excuse or another.
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And don't let them weasel out of the class action lawsuit with their fake $29 battery replacement offer. A coworker's son works at the local Apple store, and he said they're refusing to do about 90% of the replacements. I know the devices I took in from work were all denied due to one excuse or another.
Prove it, or STFU.
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I'm an Apple fan (though I like to think I'm not a fanboy), and I'm okay with this investigation. While the facts about what happened aren't in dispute, the decisions that led to those actions are in dispute, and depending on what they end up being, they might point towards misdeeds on Apple's part. For instance, while I doubt the government will find any indication of it, if Apple was slowing already-purchased phones down for the purpose of driving people to purchase new phones, there'd be some serious pro
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I'm an Apple fan (though I like to think I'm not a fanboy), and I'm okay with this investigation. While the facts about what happened aren't in dispute, the decisions that led to those actions are in dispute, and depending on what they end up being, they might point towards misdeeds on Apple's part. For instance, while I doubt the government will find any indication of it, if Apple was slowing already-purchased phones down for the purpose of driving people to purchase new phones, there'd be some serious problems for them, given that they would have effectively been engaging in a bait-and-switch.
I expect that the government will subpoena the relevant e-mails, investigate whether that was the intent, and then will almost certainly come to the conclusion that there's no evidence of Apple engaging in any wrongdoing. At the same time, I expect that the investigation will be dragged through the news cycles every few months whenever a politician or competitor who's opposed to Apple in some way needs a quick way to make Apple look like the bad guy.
I.e. Politics as usual.
Bullshit.
Don't you find it a bit COMBEENIENT that this "investigation" come STRAIGHT on the heels of the FBI testifying in Congress about "unbreakable encryption"? Especially since we ALL know who has the best track record I. That regard...
Conveeeeeenient, indeed.
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Like I said, politics as usual.
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Re: Investigate! (Score:2)
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What's there to investigate, really? They admitted that they did it. The information is public. Is it illegal to write software which could be construed to have a useful purpose even if it negatively impacts performance? That could describe features of just about any software out there. Is this something we really want the government doing?
Mod Parent UP!!!!
This is THE crux of the biscuit!
Score 100 Insightful!
SEC. Really? (Score:2)
I think they might be overstepping their charter a bit. About the SEC [sec.gov] from the horses mouth. I guess someone with too much money that happens to know someone high up, and owned one of the effected phones got all butt hurt.
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Meh. (Score:2)
The government "investigates" a lot of things. However, Tim Cook was recently seen kissing The Donald's ass. No connection of course.
More transparent? (Score:1)
More transparent? lol?
More than half the people posting here defend their actions, saying throttling without notification is a perfectly acceptable behaviour. They've never been transparent before... what makes anyone think they'll change now?
iPhone usage (Score:1)
Pretty soon it will investigate DrDos too. (Score:2)
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Apparently the rumors about "DOS is not done till Lotus wont run (in DR-DOS)" has reached the ears of the government. It will start an investigation anytime soon.
The USDoJ found that Microsoft had acted in basically every anticompetitive way possible, and then John Ashcroft (GWB's AG) declared that any punishment would not be in the best interest of America. Shortly thereafter, Gates formed his Foundation and continued the work on strong IP law that he began at Microsoft, this time largely on behalf of Big Pharma [wsj.com] — financially benefiting both the Foundation, and Gates directly. This is merely an escalation of the earlier strong-arm tactics [wikipedia.org] of the Business Soft [techrights.org]
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you are a nutter. like him or hate him gates has done more good for the world than bad, especially since his retirement.
Computing is important to all fields of science, and Microsoft set back computing a decade at a time when science is more important than ever before. The Gates Foundation has not stamped out a single disease, because they can't even get into some countries because they are not a humanitarian organization, but an arm of Big Pharma.
he gives away billions of dollars worth of free immunisations and underwrites poor countries investments in immunisations (or in some cases pays their debts in full for it).
You can't get the Gates Foundation to come into your country unless you support IP law so strong that you will not be allowed to manufacture medications for your people even if the
Battery Replacement Scam (Score:1)
Do you remember how Apples PR team quickly jumped at offering customers a solution of replacing their cell phone battery for cheap?
Well what good is a solution if the company will not "act" on it?
I have two clients that were turned away from Apple after attempting to get their battery replaced for their IPhone 6.
They were told by the reps that there are no batteries available, "they may come in April". Then the rep immediately tried to encourage my client to buy a new phone.
Has anyone else experienced this?
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Do you remember how Apples PR team quickly jumped at offering customers a solution of replacing their cell phone battery for cheap?
Well what good is a solution if the company will not "act" on it?
I have two clients that were turned away from Apple after attempting to get their battery replaced for their IPhone 6.
They were told by the reps that there are no batteries available, "they may come in April". Then the rep immediately tried to encourage my client to buy a new phone.
Has anyone else experienced this?
It is becoming tiring that companies can say whatever suites them to make problems go away.
Will we ever live in a world of corporate accountability?
Hey dumbass!
There ARE no batteries available, thanks to everyone FORCING Apple to replace batteries that are still at 90+ capacity, like the battery on my iPhone 6 Plus that is over THREE years old, and sitting at 93% battery capacity.
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How do you know how much capacity is left in the battery? Is there a diagnostic that shows?
I have a iPhone 6 Plus that has some weird battery behavior (jumping battery charge levels from like 80% to 49% and then staying at 49% for ages).
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How do you know how much capacity is left in the battery? Is there a diagnostic that shows?
I have a iPhone 6 Plus that has some weird battery behavior (jumping battery charge levels from like 80% to 49% and then staying at 49% for ages).
I believe that Apple is going to add that to a future version of iOS; HOWEVER, there are several Apps that show Battery "Health" as a Percentage.
The one that I used, and that several people on MacRumors were citing as "coming up with the same value as Apple's Genius-Bar Diagnostic" is called "Battery Life". But beware! There are actually TWO Apps that have VERY similar Icons, both are called "Battery Life". But one gives you the "Battery Life" as a Percentage of "Wear", and the other gives you the Percentag
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Thanks for the info. I looked at the screenshots and I guess it's not clear to me that this one really has what it takes to do real analysis against the battery.
It's not clear to me that Apple provides a public developer API for reading more than battery percentage (I actually looked it up).
I would think any battery diagnostic app would have to monitor low level battery details while presenting a well-calibrated load (ie, that produces a known mAh real electrical load) against the phone's electrical system
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You are basing your remaining battery capacity on Apple's down app. When they used that app to check my girlfriend's battery they found it had 87% remaining, but that didn't stop it from suddenly jumping from 50% charged to 2% charged, or randomly powering off.
I think all the app does is measure the amount of energy that the battery stores, not its ability to deliver high currents. As such even if your battery still stores 90% of its rated energy, it might not actually work properly in your phone.
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You are basing your remaining battery capacity on Apple's down app. When they used that app to check my girlfriend's battery they found it had 87% remaining, but that didn't stop it from suddenly jumping from 50% charged to 2% charged, or randomly powering off.
I think all the app does is measure the amount of energy that the battery stores, not its ability to deliver high currents. As such even if your battery still stores 90% of its rated energy, it might not actually work properly in your phone.
I was using a third party app that many people on MacRumors were recommending as "agreeing" with the Apple "Genius-Bar" Diagnostic.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/ap... [apple.com]
It is called "Battery Life", and displays a "quickie look" of battery "wear", or you can look at the Raw Data. In the "Raw Data" view, it shows both the current battery charge, as well as an obviously-averaged "Capacity", in which it compares to the design-spec for the particular battery. So, for example, that bargraph shows that my "Capacity" is
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Right, so it's only showing capacity, not current delivery capability. This it is worthless for diagnosing this issue.
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Right, so it's only showing capacity, not current delivery capability. This it is worthless for diagnosing this issue.
not unrelated, generally; so definitely NOT "worthless". And the current delivery capacity involves measuring the battery's effective series resistance, which is kind of hard for a simple App to do.
So, of you're so smart, why don't you show us all how it's done, and release an iOS App that can accurately measure "current delivery capacity" with any reasonable accuracy and repeatability whatsoever.
Tool.
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Measuring the current delivery capability is easy, and in fact exactly what Apple does to detect when throttling is required. Since V=IR it's a simple matter of loading up the CPU to draw some fairly consistent current and measuring how much the battery voltage collapses.
It should be possible to do in an app if apps can measure battery voltage.
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Measuring the current delivery capability is easy, and in fact exactly what Apple does to detect when throttling is required. Since V=IR it's a simple matter of loading up the CPU to draw some fairly consistent current and measuring how much the battery voltage collapses.
It should be possible to do in an app if apps can measure battery voltage.
I understand V = IR, but there is no way to accurately determine "I".
You say "just keep loading up the CPU and watch battery Voltage." The problem is, it really isn't that simple. Even asuming that Apps can read battery voltage directly, There are still too many variables to ACCURATELY predict current draw from just Instantaneous CPU load.
Sorry, the ONLY way to measure DC current flow accurately is with a current shunt. But I VERY much doubt that something as power sensitive as a smartphone would want to wa
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I is the thing you are calculating by measuring V and using a fixed R. Well, not R exactly, but a fixed load, which is the CPU at 100%.
Say you decide that your test will be CPU at 100% on both cores, screen on maximum brightness, radios turned off. That's going to be fairly consistent across devices. If you are Apple you can even measure I under these conditions, but you don't actually need to. All you need to do is measure V, and do it on a decent number of sample devices, checking at what point the drop i
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it will put you where you would have been if this feature had not been implemented.
It will give people back all the time they lost waiting for their slow-assed phone all this time? No? Yeah.
It won't. It does not people people where they would have been. Stop apologizing for apple using insane bullshit logic.
Re: Hopefully they'll force Apple to allow repairs (Score:1, Insightful)
I just don't get all the rage over throttled CPUs.
Everyone is fine with throttled bandwidth. Gov won't even investigate that.
Gov is just mad at Apple because they don't help the gov spy on iPhones. Oh! I do get it.
Re: Hopefully they'll force Apple to allow repair (Score:1)
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I just don't get all the rage over throttled CPUs.
Everyone is fine with throttled bandwidth. Gov won't even investigate that.
Gov is just mad at Apple because they don't help the gov spy on iPhones. Oh! I do get it.
Exactly!
Re:Hopefully they'll force Apple to allow repairs (Score:4, Insightful)
it will put you where you would have been if this feature had not been implemented.
It will give people back all the time they lost waiting for their slow-assed phone all this time? No? Yeah. It won't. It does not people people where they would have been. Stop apologizing for apple using insane bullshit logic.
Congratulations, by trashing Apple for not extending your lifespan by the same amount of minutes you feel you lost waiting for apps to load you have finally taken Apple hatred beyond what the laws of physics can deliver.
Re:Hopefully they'll force Apple to allow repa (Score:1)
Awwwww poor apple worshipper upset? Kneel before jobs!
Sez the Anonymous COWARD about the LOGGED IN User.
Slashdot REALLY needs to figure a way to reign-in the ACs. Perhaps Slashdot's comment system could keep track behind the scenes of who the AC TRULY is, and have the Karma against their particular Postings be visited upon the AC's REAL account.
That way, those who wish to remain anonymous could still do so; but it could no longer be used as a way to spew hatred and bigotry (I'm looking at you, "NIGGAS" poster-person!); which is EXACTLY is what it is used for 9
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Another awww. Useless shills like you should be outright banned. Your worse than paid advertising for apple. If you dont like it here maybe /. isnt for you. Spread your lies elsewhere; appleinsider seems pretty tech ignorant, try your luck there.
Dang, it's been a while since I came across somebody who sucked as much ass at trolling as you do.
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Another ignorant ass hat that wants to cover up apples design flaw with some apple only physics bullshit.
We seem to have hit a Fuckface Von Nervestick.
-- Jon Stewart
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it will put you where you would have been if this feature had not been implemented.
It will give people back all the time they lost waiting for their slow-assed phone all this time? No? Yeah.
It won't. It does not people people where they would have been. Stop apologizing for apple using insane bullshit logic.
You know the one thing you can't receive in any Court Judgment?
Time.
So, in that sense, no Court Judgment can make anyone "whole".
So give it a rest.
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That's because they don't "replace" the battery in iPhones. They copy the data from the old one on to a new one, hand your that, and then ship your old one to be "refurbished" (which is, of course, basically just replacing the battery).
Because they can't do the battery replacements in-store (because the phone is glued shut and impossible to open without special tools), that's the best they can do to enable a "quick" repair. (Still takes a couple of hours to do the copy.)
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That's because they don't "replace" the battery in iPhones. They copy the data from the old one on to a new one, hand your that, and then ship your old one to be "refurbished" (which is, of course, basically just replacing the battery).
Because they can't do the battery replacements in-store (because the phone is glued shut and impossible to open without special tools), that's the best they can do to enable a "quick" repair. (Still takes a couple of hours to do the copy.)
This is nonsense. An IPhone 6 battery replacement is a ten minute job for someone who knows how.
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This is nonsense. An IPhone 6 battery replacement is a ten minute job for someone who knows how.
Well, yes, but we're talking about Apple "geniuses" here. (No, really, that's what Apple calls their support people.) Is it any surprise that they don't know how? Or at the very least aren't allowed to?
The Geniuses don't do it. They have a dedicated repair tech in the back.
Stupid, stupid, stupid.
Fuck off and die, you stupid COWARD, or log in and take your Karmic whipping like an adult!
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Why are haters always the latest to g
Glued components, special tools (Score:2)
The last iPhone to be glued shut was the iPhone 3GS. Circa 2009. The iPhone 4 (from 2010) and onwards are not glued shut and can be opened by removing 2 screws. Yes, 2 screws.
Did replace the battery on my SO's iPhone 5.
- Those two screws are shitty Apple pentalobular proprietary stuff, requiring you to buy special tools, because "fuck standards".
- The glass still requires you to use custom tools to pull it out (luckily, any object with enough suction that you have laying around would do : car dashboard GPS holder, kitchen towel holder, etc. combined with a guitar pick/plectrum for lever. But in theory that would have been even more tools to buy).
- The bat
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Lies. Look at this guide to replace an iPhone 8 Plus battery: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/i... [ifixit.com]
Two screws, then you have to remove the display (!) which is _glued_ in. They recommend a hairdryer to soften the glue prior to removal, and caution that removing the screen destroys the waterproof seals. There there are bunch more screws and cables, and the battery is stuck down with adhesive too.
It's by no means easy for an ordinary, unskilled person to do.
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That's because they don't "replace" the battery in iPhones. They copy the data from the old one on to a new one, hand your that, and then ship your old one to be "refurbished" (which is, of course, basically just replacing the battery).
Because they can't do the battery replacements in-store (because the phone is glued shut and impossible to open without special tools), that's the best they can do to enable a "quick" repair. (Still takes a couple of hours to do the copy.)
You're full of shot, Hater!
If every third party cellphone repair shop can do it nearly while-you-wait; so can someone in the back of an Apple Store.
Stupid fuck.
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It does suck they used the $29 battery replacement as a way of ducking a class action lawsuit then they refuse to honor that for the vast majority of people for any excuse they can find.