Google Begins Rolling Out Android 7.0 Nougat (venturebeat.com) 164
An anonymous reader writes: Google today started rolling out Android 7.0 Nougat to existing Nexus devices via an over-the-air software update. This is a gradual rollout: The Nexus 6, Nexus 5X, Nexus 6P, Nexus 9, Nexus Player, Pixel C, and General Mobile 4G (Android One) will all be updated, but " it may take several weeks" before everyone gets the latest and greatest, a Google spokesperson told VentureBeat.The Nexus 5 (2013), which packs in a Snapdragon 800 SoC coupled with 2GB of RAM and 5-inch full-HD display, won't be receiving Android Nougat update -- despite having all the hardware capabilities required for a phone to receive Google's latest OS update. The truth of the matter is if Google wanted to update the Nexus 5 with the latest Android software, it could have. It just chose not to. It's very likely that same will be the case for the Nexus 6, a phone that has 3GB of RAM, and Snapdragon 805 SoC, next year when the company releases Android O update.
Do we nned it? (Score:2)
I can't say I've seen the benefits from v5 to v6...
Re:Do we nned it? (Score:5, Interesting)
Are you serious? v6 introduced Doze mode, which help battery life. v7 extends Doze mode further, which means it should finally be possible to use an android phone for more than a day without needing to somehow shoehorn an absurdly large battery.
Android 6 also finally introduces various privacy features, so you can choose what access you are willing to grant to an individual application. Up until v6, Android was a identity thief's wet dream, cause a developer could request ridiculous amounts of access from your device, and the permission warning screen was confusing enough that most people ended up just ignoring it in the same way they ignore "Agree to our ToS" screens.
It also marks the point where Google has finally pulled it's head out of the sand and realized that it cannot rely 3rd party manufacturers to properly support their devices, and is taking back control of things like updates, and whatnot.
I can only hope that all this means the desperately needed end of the "Landfill Android" era.
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what benefit will that give when most of the energy is consumed for the display?
even if ALL the rest magically started consuming HALF of what they do now (which this fancy "doze mode" can not even dream to achieve), you'd still only see a 25% battery time increase at best.
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what benefit will that give when most of the energy is consumed for the display?
That depends on your usage model, and on your display settings (most importantly, how long the screen stays on when you're not using it).
For most people the display is the biggest single consumer of power, but the combined radios (cellular & Wifi) are almost as big, and radio + CPU power consumption is considerably larger than display consumption. Doze mode conserves radio and CPU power, and for most people does provide a big increase in battery life.
This isn't the case if, for example, you spend a
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https://slashdot.org/comments.... [slashdot.org]
second, phone use isn't the same every day. One day you might not even get 8 hours of battery life, others you might get two days because you happened to not use it much.
couple that with the above and you'll understand why i said you'd be luck if you even perceived any difference.
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Let me rephrase your concern: "what benefit will X be for use case Y when X is designed for use case Z?"
Well, yes, not a whole lot use when your use case is Y. But if your use case is Z, then it sure helps a lot. Your statement is also a lot like saying "why would I need an ignition switch on my car if every time I use my car it needs to be running anyway?" Well, yes, except you're not always driving, right? And for a lot (if not the majority) of people, their phones' screens are more often than not off bet
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a better counterexample would be "why do cars need light switches? i only drive during the night and i have them permanently on"
Re: Do we nned it? (Score:2)
Exactly illustrates my point. Lots of people drive during the day, and it'd be an awful waste if that light is a 50kW bulb...
And in case you didn't know, the biggest possible battery hog isn't the screen or antennas - it's the CPU. It's just that most of the time it's idle; and when it's busy, it often overheats and slows down.
So to address your original point: Snooze is great for those shitty apps (read: *cough*Facebook*cough*) that wakes up your phone every 5 minutes to phone home...I meant, to "update it
Re:Do we nned it? (Score:4, Informative)
yeah, that's what it says on my device, too. 21%
however, the total doesn't reach 100%. More like 40%
the simplest conclusion from that is that the indicated percentage is untrustworthy
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yeah, 25% is quite significant
however, that's for the completely ideal case i described.
be happy if you notice any actual difference at all
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I can only hope that all this means the desperately needed end of the "Landfill Android" era.
The landfill will be full of Nexus 5 models. What they have seen with their camera sensors we people wouldn't believe. Car tires on fire at the shores of the New Jersey. They have watched Wifi-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate fast food joint in Texas. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain. Time for them to die.
Third-party Nougat ROM anyone? (Score:2)
The landfill will be full of Nexus 5 models.
I thought Nexus phones had an unlockable bootloader. In theory you can back up your data and the Google Play Store app, wipe and unlock, install a third-party Nougat ROM, and reinstall Google Play Store.
What they have seen with their camera sensors we people wouldn't believe. [...] All those moments will be lost in time
I thought sync to Google Drive was designed to prevent this loss.
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Doze is awesome. My 3100mAh phone can easily do two days of heavy use now, more if I stretch it. I've been using RDP a lot today and it's on 62% at nearly 10 PM.
Google's management quality is degrading rapidly. (Score:2, Flamebait)
Trying to forcing people to buy new phones, apparently. That's sad. Google's management quality is degrading rapidly.
The highest failure rate component in a smart phone? The battery. And phone makers are making phones with batteries that can't be replaced.
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Well, they really can; you just have to open the thing up.
Re:Google's management quality is degrading rapidl (Score:4, Informative)
We don't know why Google didn't push an update for the Nexus 5.
Users mostly part of the "used phone" market? (Score:5, Insightful)
That line seemed to be the submitter's personal opinion and not backed up by anything in the linked article. We don't know why Google didn't push an update for the Nexus 5.
The Nexus 4, 5 and 5X all have the same amount of RAM, 2GB. Its damn suspicious that the 4 and 5 are limited to Android 5.1 and 6.0 and only the 5X gets 7.0. The 2012 and 2013 Nexus 7 story made sense, the former had only 1GB RAM, the later 2 GB, so only the later got Android 6.0. Screen sizes are the same on the Nexus 5 and 5X. While the 5X has slightly better CPU and GPU the chips in the 5 are still vastly overpowered for what millions of Android users do.
Is Android 7.0 64-bit only or something? Even so it seems an arbitrary change. I would understand a desire for such a minimum as a software developer but I would concede it improper to make such a change unless something else is going on, for example 2GB RAM no longer supported.
It looks and smells like a business decision. (1) Reducing development, testing and deployment costs. (2) Users are mostly part of a secondary market (buying used phones) that Google does not want to encourage.
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I don't know and there's no point in baseless speculation. I would guess it would be something like a security chip in the Nexus 5 isn't compatible with the new secure boot mechanism, but again, I have no idea.
Even if it were a secure boot issue that is also an arbitrary business decision. Secure boot could be a feature only supported on devices with a compatible security chip. It is not a technical decision as "not enough RAM" would be.
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I don't know and there's no point in baseless speculation. I would guess it would be something like a security chip in the Nexus 5 isn't compatible with the new secure boot mechanism, but again, I have no idea.
Even if it were a secure boot issue that is also an arbitrary business decision. Secure boot could be a feature only supported on devices with a compatible security chip. It is not a technical decision as "not enough RAM" would be.
"Not enough RAM" is an equally arbitrary restriction -- they could only change the OS in ways that don't use additional system resources.
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I don't know and there's no point in baseless speculation. I would guess it would be something like a security chip in the Nexus 5 isn't compatible with the new secure boot mechanism, but again, I have no idea.
Even if it were a secure boot issue that is also an arbitrary business decision. Secure boot could be a feature only supported on devices with a compatible security chip. It is not a technical decision as "not enough RAM" would be.
"Not enough RAM" is an equally arbitrary restriction -- they could only change the OS in ways that don't use additional system resources.
I am not going to comment other than to say I will allow a "do over" and pretend you never typed that.
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I don't know and there's no point in baseless speculation. I would guess it would be something like a security chip in the Nexus 5 isn't compatible with the new secure boot mechanism, but again, I have no idea.
Even if it were a secure boot issue that is also an arbitrary business decision. Secure boot could be a feature only supported on devices with a compatible security chip. It is not a technical decision as "not enough RAM" would be.
"Not enough RAM" is an equally arbitrary restriction -- they could only change the OS in ways that don't use additional system resources.
I am not going to comment other than to say I will allow a "do over" and pretend you never typed that.
I stand by what I wrote. Suppose my guess was right and incompatibility with the new boot features is why the Nexus 5 won't get Nougat; that's just as much of an arbitrary reason as an iPhone 4 not getting iOS 10 because it doesn't have enough RAM. The hardware won't support all the features, so why give a half-assed update?
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I don't know and there's no point in baseless speculation. I would guess it would be something like a security chip in the Nexus 5 isn't compatible with the new secure boot mechanism, but again, I have no idea.
Even if it were a secure boot issue that is also an arbitrary business decision. Secure boot could be a feature only supported on devices with a compatible security chip. It is not a technical decision as "not enough RAM" would be.
"Not enough RAM" is an equally arbitrary restriction -- they could only change the OS in ways that don't use additional system resources.
I am not going to comment other than to say I will allow a "do over" and pretend you never typed that.
I stand by what I wrote.
Its your credibility. You might want to read up on the many decades long trend of operating system development and increasing RAM requirements.
Suppose my guess was right and incompatibility with the new boot features is why the Nexus 5 won't get Nougat; that's just as much of an arbitrary reason as an iPhone 4 not getting iOS 10 because it doesn't have enough RAM. The hardware won't support all the features, so why give a half-assed update?
Not enough RAM destroys the user experience. The lack of a secure boot does not. Android Nougat (7.0) would not be "half-assed" by booting with or without secure boot. It is arbitrary to make this one feature mandatory, it could be optional as it is in the PC architecture and with Windows 10.
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I don't know and there's no point in baseless speculation. I would guess it would be something like a security chip in the Nexus 5 isn't compatible with the new secure boot mechanism, but again, I have no idea.
No, it's nothing like that. There are some security-related features that are improved on the new devices, but those in and of themselves wouldn't block upgrades.
It's actually pretty simple. Google has committed to supporting devices for three years, and the Nexus 5 is more than three years old. If you really want to run Nougat on a Nexus 5, though, you can do it. Just unlock the bootloader and flash it yourself.
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Why are you defending google so much? Do you have google stock or some shit? Google is a corporation. Their decisions are based on money nowdays. The original guys are long gone.
I'm defending Google because right now Nexus devices are the only phones that reasonably respect their users' right to unlock the bootloader. I dread living in a world dominated by Samsung, Apple, and Microsoft.
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Why are you defending google so much? Do you have google stock or some shit? Google is a corporation. Their decisions are based on money nowdays. The original guys are long gone.
I'm defending Google because right now Nexus devices are the only phones that reasonably respect their users' right to unlock the bootloader. I dread living in a world dominated by Samsung, Apple, and Microsoft.
Your secure boot theory sort of undermines your user rights argument. So in your scenario of why the limitation might be justified you can add Google to that domination list. :-)
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Why are you defending google so much? Do you have google stock or some shit? Google is a corporation. Their decisions are based on money nowdays. The original guys are long gone.
I'm defending Google because right now Nexus devices are the only phones that reasonably respect their users' right to unlock the bootloader. I dread living in a world dominated by Samsung, Apple, and Microsoft.
Your secure boot theory sort of undermines your user rights argument. So in your scenario of why the limitation might be justified you can add Google to that domination list. :-)
I have no idea what you're talking about. Android 7 has a new secure booting mechanism, but it's not the same as Intel's SecureBoot that (theoretically) locks the bootloader. You can still unlock the bootloader on Nexus phones. Indeed, Google even advertises that as a benefit.
Re:Users mostly part of the "used phone" market? (Score:5, Informative)
Why are you defending google so much? Do you have google stock or some shit? Google is a corporation. Their decisions are based on money nowdays. The original guys are long gone.
I'm defending Google because right now Nexus devices are the only phones that reasonably respect their users' right to unlock the bootloader. I dread living in a world dominated by Samsung, Apple, and Microsoft.
Your secure boot theory sort of undermines your user rights argument. So in your scenario of why the limitation might be justified you can add Google to that domination list. :-)
I have no idea what you're talking about. Android 7 has a new secure booting mechanism, but it's not the same as Intel's SecureBoot that (theoretically) locks the bootloader. You can still unlock the bootloader on Nexus phones. Indeed, Google even advertises that as a benefit.
Then you need to edit your list as Microsoft allows the unlocking of the boot loader as well. Also while Samsung will void your warranty they don't really prevent you from changing the boot loader so they don't really belong on the list either. Only Apple aggressively locks down the boot process and works to prevent user modification.
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Samsung allows you to unlock the bootloader, but they frown on it. I don't doubt that they'd perma-lock it if they could.
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Microsoft has made it clear that Windows 10 phones won't allow the OS to be changed due to SecureBoot in the near future.
I was referring to Windows 10 PCs, Windows 10 phones never entered my mind for some reason. :-) You were referencing Intel and Secure Boot so that got me thinking PC architecture. Isn't the Android thing Verified Boot and hasn't it been around since Android 4.4?
Samsung allows you to unlock the bootloader, but they frown on it. I don't doubt that they'd perma-lock it if they could.
Actually I have no doubt they could make it much harder if they wanted to and deter many of the mildly curious.
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You can officially unlock bootloaders of most Sony phones, but doing so removes the DRMed functionality (some camera codecs).
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It's down to the CPU, or more specifically the ARM version it implements. They could back port the new Java compiler but some of it, like the new encryption stuff that relies on the newer secure storage features of the CPU wouldn't work anyway.
So it's either support some features on older devices or just don't support them at all. I guess they choose the latter.
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Some reasons why Google won't update:
1) Is the phone fast enough so that it isn't just full of jank when you upgrade? Because I'm sure people will complain a LOT more about that than be forced to upgrade a pretty antiquated phone.
2) Do the hardware component manufacturers still support those devices? Put it this way: why would Qualcomm staff up a driver team to upgrade the drivers of components in old devices if those components are "good enough" and doesn't even sell much anymore?
There are a lot more reaso
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Some reasons why Google won't update: 1) Is the phone fast enough so that it isn't just full of jank when you upgrade? Because I'm sure people will complain a LOT more about that than be forced to upgrade a pretty antiquated phone.
The 5 and 5X are not very different.
2) Do the hardware component manufacturers still support those devices? Put it this way: why would Qualcomm staff up a driver team to upgrade the drivers of components in old devices if those components are "good enough" and doesn't even sell much anymore?
There are a lot more reasons beyond "specs".
Google already has a working driver for "old" chips and they likely do not need to upgrade them, unless the changes are related to operating system interfaces and in that case Google would be better qualified to make the changes.
It's their official policy (Score:5, Insightful)
I have a Nexus 5, so I wasn't expecting it to get Nougat. It would've been nice if it did, but frankly I've been looking to upgrade anyway. It's a great phone (especially with Marshmallow), but it's limited by only being able to have one cellular radio active at a time. In theory I should be able to talk on the phone while simultaneously web browsing over LTE. But the hardware only supports a single active cellular radio. Wasn't a big deal when I first got the phone, but now I'm tethering more and I find I'm either unable to receive phone calls or text messages while tethered, or the call will interrupt LTE causing dropped Internet connections.
The whole OS update scene is a mess right now. Android drops support for old devices quickly. Windows 10 forces you to receive updates whether you want them or not. Apple supports their devices for a long time, but if you update a device and find it makes the device dog slow, you can't uninstall the update like you can with Android and Windows. Nobody seems to be able to get this right. Something like: support for 5 years, forced updates (so carriers can't screw you over), but you can uninstall updates which give you problems.
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Apple supports their devices for a long time
Only because they are on the market a long time. I don't know if Apple has any official statement anywhere about their policy, but from observation, the last major update that an Apple phone will receive is the one that is released the day it is withdrawn from the market (the way Apple manages its OS and new iPhone launches, these events generally coincide).
Up until recently, Apple released one phone at a time, and moved its older models down the product range, so a phone was actively being sold in Weste
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IOS 9 Released September 2015 supports the iPhone 4s (introduced 2011). iOS 9 supports the 4s,5 (and 5C), 6 and 6s,
5 is only one generation from current 5X (Score:3)
... especially when they've released 3 different phones since then ...
Its generations not phones that matter. The direct successors to the 5 are the 5X and 6 and the 5X is still a current model. So the 5 is only one generation removed from the current model and has the same screen, same amount of RAM, and only a slightly slower CPU/GPU which is still vastly overpowered for what millions of Android uses typically do.
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... especially when they've released 3 different phones since then ...
Its generations not phones that matter. The direct successors to the 5 are the 5X and 6 and the 5X is still a current model. So the 5 is only one generation removed from the current model and has the same screen, same amount of RAM, and only a slightly slower CPU/GPU which is still vastly overpowered for what millions of Android uses typically do.
No your are wrong, after the 5 came the 6, that was the next generation, then the year after they release the 5x & 6p at the same time so that will be the second generation. When they release the updated OS this year they are supposed to release 2 new phones again so that will be the 3rd generation. If each phone was manufactured by the same company I would agree with you on the generation thing, but since they pick a new maker every year, the generation thing really doesn't come into play.
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... especially when they've released 3 different phones since then ...
Its generations not phones that matter. The direct successors to the 5 are the 5X and 6 and the 5X is still a current model. So the 5 is only one generation removed from the current model and has the same screen, same amount of RAM, and only a slightly slower CPU/GPU which is still vastly overpowered for what millions of Android uses typically do.
No your are wrong, after the 5 came the 6, that was the next generation, then the year after they release the 5x & 6p at the same time so that will be the second generation. When they release the updated OS this year they are supposed to release 2 new phones again so that will be the 3rd generation. If each phone was manufactured by the same company I would agree with you on the generation thing, but since they pick a new maker every year, the generation thing really doesn't come into play.
You are speaking of marketing generations, I am speaking of technical design generations. Both the 5X and the 6 are direct descendants of the 5. Both the 5 and 5X are made by LG.
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Its generations not phones that matter.
It's not generations that matter either. What matters is the hardware capabilities and the ongoing difficulty of supporting older models with significantly different hardware. (This is why support was dropped early for the Galaxy Nexus: the OEM for the SoC exited the market and made it all but impossible to get updated binary drivers for the GN hardware which would work with kernels later versions depended on.)
The reason why people are rightly upset with this decision is that there is very little hardware d
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Keh? new OS, what new OS. You mean a new java layer on top of an old OS. So yes, if you want, well not even a new java layer so much as new versions of apps on that java layer (the java layer could be really old, as well as the OS underneath it), you know the apps, the actual GUI, those apps that come with the phone and maybe just maybe some new drivers, than buy a new phone. Even though the might not be much improvement in the phone or the software most probably hasn't changed all that much, apart from som
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Well, whatever advantages of the new Android version, I'm still getting app updates for the Google apps like Drive on my Nexus 7 (2012). Mind you, the Chrome updates over the last year or so have made the tablet largely useless for browsing, though I still use it as an ereader and can watch Netflix on it.
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Firefox only works marginally better. Most of the problems came with the last major update for the Nexus 7 (2012), which was, as I recall, Kit Kat. At any rate, everything I've learned suggests slower flash memory is a big culprit.
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Firefox on mobile gets no support.
I've been trying to figure out how to sync my desktop and mobile passwords (using the same master password) for months.
Asked on stack exchange, mozilla forums, reddit, you name it...
No responses.
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I have followed these instructions as well.
Bookmarks get synced, passwords do not. And there's nobody to ask.
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Firefox for Android is barely usable. I use it because it supports ublock, but I am not happy about Firefox at all. It is awfully slow and eats a lot of battery and RAM, even on higher end devices (Galaxy S5, Xperia Tablet Z4). It is the only application that manages to crash Android completely. Text reflow has been for some reason removed two years or so ago. Copy&Paste is different from normal Android copy&paste. Firefox often misses hyperlinks. Several animated GIFs can slow it down to a crawl an
Damn you Google (Score:3)
iOS haters always say that you should only buy Google approved(tm) Android devices to stay up to day, and here it is, Google shitting on you. A perfect by today's standards device is no longer receiving updates because ... because nothing. An organization which earns billions of dollars every quarter cannot afford to maintain its older but perfectly capable devices.
Hopefully one day Android will become a true OS [altervista.org] vs. what we have now: basically a heavily modified lego for each and every device. There's no Android OS which you can throw at a random ARM device and have it running with all the components functioning properly (camera, WiFi, 3G/4G, sensors, storage, etc.)
Re:Damn you Google (Score:5, Informative)
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I perfectly understand that.
For most unsavvy people though, "no new major OS update" = "no updates at all".
"Your phone isn't running Android 7.0? Wow, what a turd!"
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For most people (and the typical /. reader is not in that group), they couldn't tell you what OS version their phone (Apple or Android) was running. They're going to see that they periodically have an update and think their phone is more or less up to date software wise.
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I perfectly understand that.
For most unsavvy people though, "no new major OS update" = "no updates at all".
"Your phone isn't running Android 7.0? Wow, what a turd!"
Um, alright? And that's better than people with the iPhone 6s Plus 128GB mocking other iPhone users for having inferior devices?
Yes, it does stink given 5 and 5X nearly identical (Score:5, Insightful)
"Your phone isn't running Android 7.0? Wow, what a turd!"
When your phone (Nexus 5) is only one generation different from the currently sold model (Nexus 5X) and has the same screen, same amount of RAM and only a slightly slower CPU then yes, it "stinks". There is no hiding that odor.
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Which Moto device had better updates (quick and up to date) for a 3 years old device?
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The Galaxy Nexus received many updates. It launched with Android 4 and was updated up to version 4.3. The Galaxy Nexus was released in 2011. Two years before your Moto X.
J to L is only two updates.
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You said the Galaxy Nexus was updated to nothing. It is just plain false. It received more updates than the Moto X 2013.
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It's not shitting on you when it's their policy for 3 years of security updates and 2 years of major OTAs.
As oppose to iOS that you also can't throw at random ARM devices and have it running with all it's components functioning properly?
Both Android and iOS are compiled for specific hardware. Apple decided to loc
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Do you have any reading comprehension skills? How does anything I said indicate I'm an Apple fanboy? In reality, I'm much more an Android fanboy then Apple.
Nexus may still be the best option with Android (Score:2)
iOS haters always say that you should only buy Google approved(tm) Android devices to stay up to day ...
iOS fans have said that too for people determined to go Android, that if you want/have to go Android get a Nexus device. Even with this crappy treatment of Nexus 5 users - the currently sold 5X has the same screen, same RAM, and only slightly faster CPU - a Nexus may still be the best option with Android. My understanding is that Nexus 4 running Android 5.1 and Nexus 5 running Android 6.0 will still get patches. They merely don't get Android 7.0, but at least security holes and bugs get patched unlike some
Media Tek Devices (BLU) (Score:4, Interesting)
I still take issue with the fact that MTK will not open source their drivers or offer a Cyanogen based option for 4.4.2 KitKat Devices that need to be updated. I have an up to date Blu Studio 5.0CE D536U. The last Patch it got, V14, did a fix for Sim Cards in Equador, and completely ignored the mountains of CVEs filed against
I want to load Cyanogen Mod on it, but the MTK6572 the device has is not well understood enough to run Cyanogen Mod.
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That phone was extremely low end (512MB RAM, crap screen, crap battery, crap CPU) when it was released two years ago, and sold for $75 new. It would be nice if it got OS updates, but... There are plenty of phones in that price bracket that do offer updates, there are plenty of custom ROMs for it using the binary blob drivers (check XDA Developers) and you could throw it away and get a much better phone that runs Cyanogen for $50 from banggood.
Also, if you have Play installed and run updated apps, you are pa
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I learned the hard way that buying cheap android devices from lesser known manufacturers is a complete waste of money. They won't be updated by the manufacturer, you won't be able to update them because they're probably using lesser known parts, and it may not even be fit for purpose out of the box.
You're better off paying the extra money and buying a more mainstream device from Google, or devices that at least are supported by Cyanogenmod, miui or some other 3rd party android distribution.
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
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Drivers (Score:2)
At the VERY least, Google ought to commit to releasing unsupported "best-effort" automated builds of binary kernel modules for proprietary hardware for at least 5 years. It's something that would take only a tiny bit of effort (or arm twisting) by Google, and would go a LONG way towards neutralizing the misery caused by Linux's lack of a stable kernel ABI by doing the ONE THING for us that we genuinely can't do ourselves -- build proprietary drivers from source so they'll work with a new kernel.
Alternativel
Have they re-enabled Miracast? (Score:4, Interesting)
I spent a few hours trying to get Chromecast working on a TV on a 10.0.0.0/8 subnet at a large university, and it simply cannot do it. Chrome cast will only work on a /24. Miracast will, but Google disabled it on their Nexus line, for no greater reason than trying to push Chromecast.
So Google, do you care about making your customers happy, or some random mid-level MBA at the Googleplex who thought they were Dr. Evil when they came with the idea of reducing functionality?
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Re:No problem (Score:4, Informative)
Granted, OEMs and carriers are probably blocking those from getting to 99% of peoples' phones, but that's not Google's fault.
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And there is no carrier or OEM to blame here...
Re:No problem (Score:5, Informative)
Google patches their OS. OEMs and carriers don't send them downstream, and there's nothing Google can do about it because Android is FOSS and you can do whatever you like with it. The fact that iOS is restricted and closed gives the illusion that iPhones have better security, but if anybody could sell iOS devices beside Apple, their ecosystem would look just as bad.
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Compare this to desktop machines though. Microsoft of Ubuntu or whoever makes your OS can issue updates. As soon as those updates are made available, you can update your desktop computer. You don't have to wait for HP, Dell, or anybody else to allow you to make that update to your desktop computer. Why can't phones work the same way? When Google updates Android, I should be able to apply that update, and the manufacturer of the device should have no control over whether or not that update is applied.
Re:No problem (Score:4, Informative)
Compare this to desktop machines though. Microsoft of Ubuntu or whoever makes your OS can issue updates. As soon as those updates are made available, you can update your desktop computer. You don't have to wait for HP, Dell, or anybody else to allow you to make that update to your desktop computer. Why can't phones work the same way? When Google updates Android, I should be able to apply that update, and the manufacturer of the device should have no control over whether or not that update is applied.
Well, if you bought a phone with an unlockable bootloader, you can flash whatever OS you want on it. As I wrote elsewhere, even the original Galaxy Nexus from 2011 can get the Cyanogenmod equivalent of Android Marshmallow this way.
But the main "problem" (if you want to consider it so) with Android is that it's a FOSS platform. Apple and Microsoft heavily strangle their respective closed platforms so that OEMs and carriers can't do anything to interfere with Apple's and Microsoft's business (aside from, in the case of Windows, pre-installing bloatware). But since anybody can legally install Android on anything, Google can't use the same kind of leverage. Well, that's a good thing, I say. It means I'm not on Google's leash.
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No, you've got that backwards: the problem is that phone hardware should be required by law to be unlocked so that their owners can control their property.
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If we're going to be fair in an Android vs. iOS battle, we should really keep the price point in mind. iPhones receive official updates longer than Nexus phones, but (a) Ne
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The problem is that even if I had an unlocked bootloader, I'd still be relying on a third party, CyanogenMod, to provide me with updates. Google needs to fix things so that I can get updates directly from them, without relying on CyanogenMod, Samsung, or whoever else. Google can't stop you from installing Android, but the Google Play services that include the App store are not a part of the open source Android platform are under their control. They could make it a requirement that anybody installing the Go
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But the main "problem" (if you want to consider it so) with Android is that it's a FOSS platform. Apple and Microsoft heavily strangle their respective closed platforms so that OEMs and carriers can't do anything to interfere with Apple's and Microsoft's business (aside from, in the case of Windows, pre-installing bloatware). But since anybody can legally install Android on anything, Google can't use the same kind of leverage. Well, that's a good thing, I say. It means I'm not on Google's leash.
Ubuntu is also a FOSS platform, and it has no problem updating without the PC manufacturer consent.
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My thoughts as well, but actually, you are pretty much tied in to what Canonical makes available on their apt repository (or whatever) unless you have a bit of technical ability.
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you are pretty much tied in to what Canonical makes available on their apt repository (or whatever) unless you have a bit of technical ability.
Technically, it does take "a bit of technical ability" to copy and paste a PPA URL into Start > Settings > Software & Updates. But how does this "bit of technical ability" compare to what people normally do with a PC?
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My thoughts as well, but actually, you are pretty much tied in to what Canonical makes available on their apt repository (or whatever) unless you have a bit of technical ability.
Nonsense. Whatever you want to install just needs to be put into a .DEB package. For example, installing Steam from Valve's website is just a matter of "download and double-click."
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CArriers and OEM's have both decided that the need to be in the middle of this to be able to guarantee Qualit of Service. The same way Bell Atlantic phones wouldn't let you install a phone line in your own home, or even use hardware other than what they sold. It is a control mechanism when Apple does it to Telcos, and it is a control mechanism when Verizon or HTC decide to not push out the new OS or updates.
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There are two types of updates which I think we're confounding: one is security updates, and another is OS upgrades. At least as of now, security updates are being forced through. So as long as you have a relatively recent version of Android and a phone with some sort of reputable brand, you get those regularly (just like your Windows/Ubuntu example).
On the other hand, version upgrades are mostly wild wild west-style of approach. And in this regard, it's a lot less different from Windows than you'd think (a
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I got that from you: "Granted, OEMs and carriers are probably blocking those from getting to 99% of peoples' phones,". Duh.
Yeah, there's a huge difference between "99% of phones don't have all requisite security patches" and "99% of phones are pwned".
After a vulnerability is discovered, it needs to be weaponized in the form of an exploit, and then it has to execute on a vulnerable phone.
The vast majority of Android vulnerabilities require installing a malicious app. Since only a minuscule few of those slip through the Google Play Store, that means a user has to change their default setting of disallowing third-party apps
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GP may be a smidge hyperbolic, but not by much. And IMO Google does hold some blame for this. They have the power to enforce good behaviour, but don't. At least, they haven't been up till now. I've read rumblings about them wanting to take back some control of android, but I don't know details or timeframe.
True, there's nothing to be done with the crap hardware put out by two-bit companies, but for big companies such as Samsung, etc, who subscribe to Google's value-add services, Google could have very e
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You really are part of the problem, aren't you? You first have this passive aggressive "YOU MUST BACK THIS UP OR ELSE" attitude, and then casually admit that it's true, but it's not Google's fault. And that's ignoring the absolutely non-backed-up statement about iOS.
Are you sure there's nothing Google can do? Are you sure Google doesn't have agreements with phone manufacturers about customizaton? Are you sure Google doesn't own the trademark for Android and can forbid basically anyone of labeling their phon
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Nothing google can do? Keep on keeping.
I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean, but what do you suggest Google does? Close the source on Android? That defeats its primary advantage over iOS -- nobody can beat Apple at being Apple.
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Sure. But do those releases ever actually make it to end user devices?
Predominantly, no. Because the Android ecosystem is such that device manufacturers have to incentive to keep old devices working - there is no margin in it. They would much rather you buy a new device that they already have the new software on, and they get money for developing.
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Just keep on pumping out those new versions, Google. No need to support old hardware. They can just throw their 3 year old hardware in the trash. Very Earth friendly. And no need to port security fixes over either. Android owners know their phones are all "pwned" anyway.
I agree. Marshmallow was optimal, having introduced the capability of swapping the primary & secondary storage definitions. Nougat (wasn't it nutmeg?) should focus on being upgradable from Icecream sandwich, honeycomb, kitcat, and before.