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The Average Age For a Child Getting Their First Smartphone Is Now 10.3 Years (techcrunch.com) 175

Posted by msmash from the is-this-normal? dept.
An anonymous reader writes: A TechCrunch article, citing a report on Influence Central, states that the average age for a child getting their smartphone is now 10.3 years. The report adds that 64% of kids have access to the Internet via their own laptop or tablet, compared to just 42% in 2012. Also, 39% of kids get a social media account at 11.4 years, and 11% get a social media account when they were younger than 10.
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The Average Age For a Child Getting Their First Smartphone Is Now 10.3 Years More

The Average Age For a Child Getting Their First Smartphone Is Now 10.3 Years

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  • Where? Im guessing you're not talking about... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by friesofdoom ( 3817155 ) on Thursday May 19, 2016 @03:23PM (#52143871)
    Zimbabwe, right?

  • This worries me (Score:5, Insightful)

    by tom229 ( 1640685 ) on Thursday May 19, 2016 @03:29PM (#52143945)
    My son is 3 and I have another on the way. This stuff really concerns me. When I was growing up I had to work a fast food job just to afford what we call a "dumb" phone now - at age 16. My sons will have, in their pocket, full access to the breadth of the internet by the age of 10, or be social outcasts for not. What does this mean for their generation? I like to be optimistic, but it can't be good.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by AuMatar ( 183847 )

      The exact same comment was made for TV, the car, the locomotive, and the music of Beethoven. I wouldn't be surprised if it was made for math and the written language as well. We somehow all survived.

      • written language as well

        You do realise people can write porn without even having to learn to spell!

        You don't actually need ChromeOS for porn. Hell, you can even draw it in the sand with a stick.

        • There are statues of women with big boobs dating back thousands of years... yes, porn has been around forever! I believe they have found 1000 year old dildos as well.

      • Re:This worries me (Score:5, Insightful)

        by wbr1 ( 2538558 ) on Thursday May 19, 2016 @05:17PM (#52144991)
        There is an order of magnitude difference between TV. Or the works of Beethoven, and everything mankind has done or knows or lies about. The good and the bad. Beheadings, or Bartók, it's all there for good or ill. I won't guess what the net effect will be, but there is no substitute for parenting. Don't use the radio, or the TV, or the phone as a babysitter with no other input. THAT is the recipe for disaster.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by rtb61 ( 674572 )

          Seriously countries should get together to create a supervised children only internet, linking together children, education facilities and licensed adults who supervise. The whole of idea of children on an adult internet exposed in an uncontrolled manner to adult content and adult advertising and in fact any manipulative advertising that could psychological harm children.

          A complete separate range of encrypted protocols to which unlicensed adults are legally denied access and which is meant to promote the

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by quenda ( 644621 )

            Seriously countries should get together to create a supervised children only internet, linking together children, education facilities and licensed adults ...

            Eh? I was waiting for the punchline, but it never came. Are you really serious!?
            My children seem to have no trouble avoiding "adult" content on the internet, just as they avoid it on TV. I don't have to password-protect Game of Thrones in the media server.
            Perhaps you are one of those people who want to treat teenagers as children, instead of the young adults that biology has made them?

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by wbr1 ( 2538558 )
              Of course he is. Because putting the liquor, porn, and guns on the high shelf always keeps it from kids. So an internet license with your own unlock code and encryption will keep the internet away from kids.. right? Right?
      • Socrates made the argument about written language; Plato wrote down the knowledge of Socrates after he died because Socrates wouldn't allow it.
    • There will be advantages and disadvantages. What's missing fromall this are powerful filters that permit parents to control who pre-teens (and even teens) can gain access to on their phones. Marketers are using technology that is incredibly powerful to reach this young demographic. Parents have no way to counteract that. Access to information is a cool thing, but what *kind* of information. DO you really want your 10-year-old son accessing the most extreme pRon sites? Trust me, many kids will go there, and

    • A year or two ago I would have said I'd never buy a little a tablet or smartphone. My one year old daughter ended up at a childcare place where they use ipads, and she got an iPad. Very soon she was counting to ten with Elmo, saying "Caillou throw ball", and other things that most kids don't do until after they are two years old. Now, at 24 months old, she's about 6-9 months ahead on most of her skills. That's "only" 6-9 months, but it's also about 30% ahead.

      We put effort into teaching her, of course, taki

      • My son learned to read at 3 on an iPad and my old motorola droid, my daughter is roughly in the same place. When my son walked in to the doctors office and read the sign "Laboratory Access for Technician Use Only" at the age of 4, refused to enter and the staff laughed hysterically, I decided "More good than harm". Sure, there's a million things I worry about and watch for. A lot of them I worry about in meatspace too. Parenting remains a requirement.

        A lot of people on /. don't like smartphones and wish to

      • Re:Changed my mind. 20 months old, counting with E (Score:5, Interesting)

        by FlyHelicopters ( 1540845 ) on Thursday May 19, 2016 @04:31PM (#52144559)

        A year or two ago I would have said I'd never buy a little a tablet or smartphone. My one year old daughter ended up at a childcare place where they use ipads, and she got an iPad. Very soon she was counting to ten with Elmo, saying "Caillou throw ball", and other things that most kids don't do until after they are two years old. Now, at 24 months old, she's about 6-9 months ahead on most of her skills. That's "only" 6-9 months, but it's also about 30% ahead.

        Our kids have an iPad too, but it is locked down. Email, web browsing, the app store, are all turned off.

        To even get apps to update I have to sign in and do it myself.

        Nothing wrong with such a device, so long as you know how to control it.

    • Keep in mind that "average" is just that. And it isn't a wealth versus poverty issue--plenty of wealthy parents take a stand against giving kids smart phones at a young age. That said, keep in mind that I think in most cases we aren't talking about a parent deciding to go out a buy an iPhone for a 10 year old. We're talking about parents upgrading their phone and giving their old phone to their kid instead of selling it, and adding a line to the family plan for $10 per month.

      My oldest will be 10 next yea

    • Re:This worries me (Score:5, Insightful)

      by FlyHelicopters ( 1540845 ) on Thursday May 19, 2016 @03:56PM (#52144211)

      I have a 10 year old son right now, he will be 11 in a few months.

      He doesn't have a smart phone and isn't getting one until he is 16.

      He also doesn't have unlimited access to the Internet at home and for the time being, I can control that. In a few years it will be harder to control, but it has to come off at some point.

      Giving a 10 year old unlimited access to the Internet at 10 is beyond stupid, most kids can't handle it and it won't end well.

      Yes, there are exceptions, but they are the exceptions that prove the rule. Just remember that you're the Dad, not society, so do what you think is right for your kids, everyone else be dammed.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by DRJlaw ( 946416 )

        Giving a 10 year old unlimited access to the Internet at 10 is beyond stupid, most kids can't handle it and it won't end well. ... Just remember that you're the Dad, not society, so do what you think is right for your kids, everyone else be dammed.

        Congratulations. I don't consider it beyond stupid, my 10 year old can handle it, and you're damned.

        • my 10 year old can handle it

          Maybe... there are likely exceptions out there, perhaps you're one of them...

          MORE likely you're not and you'll regret it in 20 years, but only time will tell. :)

          There is some NASTY stuff online... goat sex, BDSM, etc. that he'll run across that a 10 year old brain isn't ready to handle. Hell, I'm 40 and I don't want to see that stuff. :)

          Further, most 10 year olds don't understand how creepy and messed up some people in the world really are, they will end up talking to someone who will not have their best

      • Re:This worries me (Score:4, Insightful)

        by sociocapitalist ( 2471722 ) on Friday May 20, 2016 @01:42AM (#52146987)

        I have a 10 year old son right now, he will be 11 in a few months.

        He doesn't have a smart phone and isn't getting one until he is 16.

        He also doesn't have unlimited access to the Internet at home and for the time being, I can control that. In a few years it will be harder to control, but it has to come off at some point.

        Giving a 10 year old unlimited access to the Internet at 10 is beyond stupid, most kids can't handle it and it won't end well.

        Yes, there are exceptions, but they are the exceptions that prove the rule. Just remember that you're the Dad, not society, so do what you think is right for your kids, everyone else be dammed.

        You can't control what your 10 year old is going to have access to when he isn't home.

        I've chosen rather to discuss with my son what to expect and he is aware that there is a lot on the net that would upset him. As such he polices himself better than I ever could, regardless of where he is.

        • You can't control what your 10 year old is going to have access to when he isn't home.

          Sure I can... He is home, then he is at school, or he is at a friends house of someone I trust...

          He is 10, not 15... For now, I do have more or less total control over his world...

          That won't last long however, he has one more year in elementary school, then it starts to go.

          I've chosen rather to discuss with my son what to expect

          You talk to your 10 year old about goat sex? Pedophiles? Worse?

          • You can't control what your 10 year old is going to have access to when he isn't home.

            Sure I can... He is home, then he is at school, or he is at a friends house of someone I trust...

            He is 10, not 15... For now, I do have more or less total control over his world...

            That won't last long however, he has one more year in elementary school, then it starts to go.

            Emphasis mine.

            I know that at 10 my son had at least one friend who was looking at more than he should have been - and it was my son that told me about it (as I said policing himself better than I could). So maybe your son will tell you - maybe not.

            I've chosen rather to discuss with my son what to expect

            You talk to your 10 year old about goat sex? Pedophiles? Worse?

            Of course not in detail but yes, absolutely. He understands that people 'do things' together and that it's called sex and that usually this is nice and some is abnormal and can be very upsetting for him to see and so forth. And yes I give vague examples.

            So far the worst thing I've seen in the search history is "naked women" which I find to be healthy enough curiousity for a pre-teen, not something to be worried about at all.

            • My son is not allowed into other people's homes. Too many people do not secure their guns or their internet. At least one neighbor on the street that I know of keeps a loaded shotgun under their bed unsecured. And of course other parents do give unrestricted access to the Internet to their kids. That is why my kids don't go into other people's homes.

              Electronic devices are not allowed at school either. No phones, no tablets, and the schools devices are locked down.

              He really doesn't have any place to be

              • My son is not allowed into other people's homes. Too many people do not secure their guns or their internet. At least one neighbor on the street that I know of keeps a loaded shotgun under their bed unsecured. And of course other parents do give unrestricted access to the Internet to their kids. That is why my kids don't go into other people's homes.

                Electronic devices are not allowed at school either. No phones, no tablets, and the schools devices are locked down.

                He really doesn't have any place to be exposed to any of it.

                One more year of elementary school, then that starts to go, since kids are allowed to have phones in junior high. I will spend the summer before junior high discussing this stuff. He isn't ready for it now.

                Well I hope he has siblings then, as otherwise it must be a pretty lonely time.

                My experience growing up in the US was that everything that was bad, forbidden, out of reach, blocked...was thus waaaay more interesting than it should have been. This is why I prefer to expose my son to everything that he might encounter, in moderation and with discussion, instead of it just happening to him all at once when he gets free of a closed ecosystem of control.

                You'll raise your kid the way you think best, of course.

    • They won't be social outcasts. I don't allow my teenagers to have a smart phone/tablet/etc. unless they want to buy and pay for it themselves (shocker - they don't) and they are far from social outcasts.

    • It means your sons will never have the experience of losing a bar bet, because they can always google the correct answer first!

    • I'm a tech nerd, but I had similar reservations. Up until my first son was 2, we let him watch children's television and generally were the normal American household. A friend of mine told me about Waldorf education and so we went to some seminars at a local school. I'm not really onboard with the spiritual philosophy, but I've been totally won over by their educational philosophy. They stress the importance of social development for young children, introducing scholastic skills later than public school

    • My sons will have, in their pocket, full access to the breadth of the internet by the age of 10

      I have 3 grandkids and another 2 on the way, the only thing resembling a mobile phone in my childhood was Captain Kirk's communicator. I think the fact a 10yo can have a communicator in his pocket is fucking awesome, the fact that it can also access mankind's knowledge base is doubly awesome

      Disclaimer - I haven't had a mobile phone for over a decade now.

    • My kids are 8 and 9, they arnt social outcasts and don't have their own phone or tablet, they won't have them either for another 4-5 years
    • *shrug* Not sure what the issue is, other than household incomes creating haves and have nots. For my daughter--which will turn three next month--having her own Android tablet has been a huge boon for her language and social skills. Obviously installing nanny apps, and playing an attentive role in what she's doing on there is critical. From my perspective I see it as a very important tool for her development.
    • I was recently in a poor and secluded village in China. They barely have education in this place and I met at least one youngish adult who couldn't read. Nonetheless, all of the kids (of about 10 years old) were out in the street in the evening interacting with their phones and not each other. The older generation said that a lot of the traditions of the village have been wiped out because of this. The kids no longer do what kids in that place used to do. This has, as you might imagine, happened more or les

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dave420 ( 699308 )

        "The kids no longer do what kids in that place used to do" - die from malnourishment and/or easily-treated disease?

    • First let me say I am likely older than you. I just say that because I was born in the late 60s. I grew up on farm, obviously didn't have internet, or even cable. I spent a lot of time outside, but as soon as I could get technology, I did. My kids will never know the feeling of riding your bike in the rain for miles with a pocket full of quarters to play arcade games. And that is OK. I am not nostalgic for "the good old days", nor am I angry at "this generation of kids" the way so many other people my

    • Think of the pornography!

    • I completely agree. I have a 9 year old girl, a 5 year old boy and a 3 year old girl. Although I was working in fast food at 16, I didn't get a cellular phone until I was 24. Payphones or the house phone were the only way to communicate. It's very different than when we were growing up. I think that creates the fear: that a social norm in our generation can be fundamentally different in our children's generation. Our grandparents would say "wow, back in my day we had a party-line if we had a phone at all" a

    • The original article mentions that the survey asked parents how old the kid was when they gave them the phone, but didn't ask if the phone had service or not.

      It's really common for parents to hand-me-down their old, no longer activated phones to their kids. It's also really cheap and easy to buy pre-paid Android phones and not even activate them.

  • *Facepalm* (Score:5, Insightful)

    by eepok ( 545733 ) on Thursday May 19, 2016 @03:35PM (#52143999) Homepage
    I will not trust my child with a private computer, digital camera, or cell phone until high school. And even then, it will be for very low values of "trust". I was young. I know what we would have done with those tools had we had them. I'm not letting my child's life get screwed up by such indiscretions.

    Want photos? Excellent. Here's a camera, film, and some batteries. Remember, these will have to be developed down the street.
    Want to use the computer. Fine. It's my computer. My lock down. And it's in the dining room.
    Want to use a phone to call someone? Cool. Here's the land line.
    *Need* a cell phone? Alright, here's one with three buttons: Mom, Dad, and Police.
    Oh, you bought one yourself? Neat! It's mine now.

    You hate me? I'm so very sad. No child has ever hated a parent before.

    • Re:*Facepalm* (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Jhon ( 241832 ) on Thursday May 19, 2016 @03:52PM (#52144175) Homepage Journal

      I'm not that strict with the phones or anything else -- but I'm not far behind.

      My kids have RDP terminals in their rooms with just enough bandwidth to run word/excel. The main computer is in the dining room (on wheels when we need the full space for guests). All homework is done at the dining room table.

      Only my son (16) has a smart phone and he pays for service himself. The phone, however, is mine. He's not allowed to "own" a phone until he pays rent. Phones aren't allowed in the house during the week except early evening (after homework/dinner and before 10pm). Weekends are a bit more generous.

      The cool thing is I wrote a chore tracker which they need to fill out every day or they automagically lose internet access on all their devices (except access to the tracker). They just need to fill out if they did a task and if not provide a reason. It wont cut them off if they dont do their choirs -- just if they dont report it. I can cut them off or return access from my phone anywhere with an internet connection. They're pretty honest about filling it out and know if they lie and get caught it's a week without internet.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Thud457 ( 234763 )
        Funny that they have limited phones adapted for seniors [jitterbugdirect.com], but people are supposed to give their children full-auto 662 horsepower unrestricted iPhones.

        And they should be cheap, too. They're always losing them or forgetting and putting them in the washer. (unclear who I'm talking about here...)

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Jhon ( 241832 )

          My son's service is limited by his resources. About $8 per month on Freedompop -- He's got about 500MB of data per month. Phone service sucks (it's VOIP) but outgoing calls uses sprint's cell network which are very good. There's other things for which he'd like to use is money.

          And the phone is off ebay -- basically $100.

          My daughter (13), on the other hand, was a $19 nokia t-mobile prepay. I paid $100 for minutes on t-mobile way-back-when and have dropped $10/year (yes year) to keep the phone active. S

      • chore tracker

        You sound like a pretty cool dad, empowering them to learn haxxoring and shit.

      • The cool thing is I wrote a chore tracker which they need to fill out every day or they automagically lose internet access on all their devices (except access to the tracker).

        I'm reminded of that Jira for kids parody video.

        "We have to finish the dishes scrum"

        "There, I've commited the last of the dishes to the drying rack"

        "We should do some quality control to see if we got them clean enough"

        "No time!"

    • We are the same. We actually switched from wireless phones in the house to one hardwired phone in the kitchen when the kids got old enough that it became a problem. The only computer they can use in the kitchen where we can monitor what they are doing (and we have to unlock it before they can use it). We have a TV, but all it is hooked up to is a DVD player. No internet access to the TV. You want to go to a friends house and do I don't know what? Let's invite them over here instead. Etc. I'm absolutely flab

    • C'mon. A camera with film? At least make it digital. It's a lot cheaper and easier to use in the long run. Do they even make such a restricted cell phone? We thought it would be useful for my son to be able to call us if necessary, and discussed not getting it out at school.

      The problem with being too restrictive a parent is that you may push your kid(s) to do things outside the home that may be worse from your point of view and may not be supervised at all. You have to let them screw up sometimes,

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by eepok ( 545733 )
      Wow. Insightful but unpopular opinion gets troll tag. Funny how this "troll" post has so many people relating to it.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Kjella ( 173770 )

      I will not trust my child with a private computer, digital camera, or cell phone until high school. (...) You hate me? I'm so very sad. No child has ever hated a parent before.

      All kids do at some point, that doesn't change the fact that some parents really are being unreasonable. It's not proof you're doing it right. And kids have a pretty good idea what normal is, if nine out of ten in their class gets to have something or do something they will know you are being very uptight, it's not like they're asking for ice cream for dinner or bedtime to be after midnight. That's when your kids will start lying to you, when they were at a friend's house they weren't playing Civilization i

    • I will not trust my child with a private computer, digital camera, or cell phone until high school. And even then, it will be for very low values of "trust". I was young. I know what we would have done with those tools had we had them. I'm not letting my child's life get screwed up by such indiscretions.

      Want photos? Excellent. Here's a camera, film, and some batteries. Remember, these will have to be developed down the street.

      Want to use the computer. Fine. It's my computer. My lock down. And it's in the dining room.

      Want to use a phone to call someone? Cool. Here's the land line.

      *Need* a cell phone? Alright, here's one with three buttons: Mom, Dad, and Police.

      Oh, you bought one yourself? Neat! It's mine now.

      You hate me? I'm so very sad. No child has ever hated a parent before.

      Yep, that doesn't sound like a recipe for maximum rebellious action as soon as your child is out of your immediate presence.

    • I don't see the issue with a digital camera. I let my oldest (7 years old) use the first digital camera my wife and I had that is pretty obsolete as it has the form factor of the old point and shoot film cameras and an 8MP sensor with reasonable glass in front of it. It is a good way for him to learn about photography as he does have an interest in it and is a lot cheaper than learning with a film camera as god knows how much film I wasted when I learned. Then again he doesn't get to keep the camera and is
  • Expect "expert" opinions to bounce around on the cancer link and smartphones for years. Adults don't want to believe they have put their children at risk and don't want to give up their smartphone either.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by eepok ( 545733 )
      http://bigthink.com/laurie-vaz... [bigthink.com]

      A group of top cancer researchers out of the University of Sydney pored over 29-years of data to come to that conclusion. They pulled their data from the Australian National Cancer Registry because all cancer diagnoses in Australia have to be legally registered. The team compared “age and gender-specific incidence rates of 19,858 male and 14,222 females diagnosed with brain cancer between 1982 and 2012, and mobile phone usage data from 1987 to 2012,” writes l

  • Dang! (Score:3)

    by dixonpete ( 1267776 ) on Thursday May 19, 2016 @03:41PM (#52144073)
    I'm nearly 53 and I still haven't owned a smartphone.

    • Well you didn't go to school in the 21st century either.

      • Well I didn't go to school in the 21st century either but I do have a smart phone and I do see how the world has changed.

        I'm on the fence, I still I haven't decided if I think cell phones and constant internet and social networking is going to kill society or make it better. I'm sure it will be worse before it's better though.

        • It will be self driving cars turned into killbots that will kill society. We will of course record the whole thing on Instagram and Vine, and complain about our new robotic overlords on twitter.

  • Also, 39% of kids get a social media account at 11.4 years, and 11% get a social media account when they were younger than 10.

    We are letting the personal information of children be sold for profit. This is a more certain sign of the decay of society than most that I can think of. It doesn't matter how harmless some people may think this is, the bigger problem is that most people don't think of that problem at all. They sign little Johnnie up for a facebook account so that he can see Grandma's wall, and pretty soon Johnnie's personal events are being sold to every company you can think of.

    • We are letting the personal information of children be sold for profit.

      Hey, they should pass a law against collecting data on people under the age of 13! What... they already did that, and all the social media companies' business models are based on encouraging kids to LIE about their age in order to set up an account? Welcome to corporate-owned America!

  • Pretty much wrecking the eyes of an entire generation.

  • I find this sad. There must be a lot of parents out there that would do anything else then talk to their kids. Some our best family conversations are in the car, or at a table. I see kids on devices in those situations and I think, what a missed opportunity for a parent to find out about their kids day went. There are so many distractions in life that keep a parent isolated from their kids and this is one I don't need.

  • Children will have smart phones before conception!

  • What's the average age at which a child breaks their first smart phone? What's the average age at which a child misplaces their cell phone, to never be seen again? One of my daughter's 10 year old friends decided to take her $600 iPhone out with her to play in the snow the only day of the year it snowed in Beaverton. The phone was never seen again.
  • back in '68, I was making simple circuits from Dad's Popular Electronics. This was before breadboards so yeah, I had a soldering iron in my little fist. By the time I was 12/13 I was fixing TVs in the neighborhood (pull all the tubes, ride my bike to Thrifty, test them, buy what was needed, ride bike home, replace tubes, present receipts and get money).

    The little snotnoses were in their 20s when the smartphone came out, and I don't know what the policy is on the grand-snots.

  • ...the average age for a child to get a smartphone was 40-something. Because that's how old we all were by the time they came on the market.

  • My daughter got one at 2 (Score:4, Insightful)

    by edcheevy ( 1160545 ) on Thursday May 19, 2016 @06:36PM (#52145545)

    Now before I'm told how horrible a parent I am, let me explain. Like anything in life or parenting, I think it's about moderation and structure. We gave our daughter one of our older Android phones when she was about 2.5 years. We were embarking on a 5 hour flight with a toddler and a baby so yes, I was looking for distractions. I gave her a locked down phone (no dialing or data connection possible) with two educational apps and one simple drawing app. We play the apps with her and monitor her play. She can also take photos. That's it. It held her interest for a while, as did a number of other activities we brought with us on the plane, but with a limited amount of distraction available she eventually grew bored. She still has access to her phone at home now and she rarely uses it. We've taken it as a backup to many outings but find we only pull it out rarely (specifically dinner at a restaurant, close to or past bedtime, aka the witching hour).

    If you give a kid a phone with the entirety of the internet and app store available with no structure, sure they'll become overwhelmed or addicted. Same thing goes for most stuff we give kids as they get older (insert car analogy). But I also think it's important to have access to the tools, connectedness, and creativity that computers and smartphones can unlock. So as my kids get older and they demonstrate they are ready, I'll unlock more functionality. But if and when I do, they can expect a lesson in how to use that new functionality safely and responsibly. If they abuse it, they lose it. I think that's about the best you can do. Maybe I'll be singing a different song in 7 years.

  • Here son - you might as well have this Iphone 4, your older sister has my Iphone 5 now that I have bought the latest version.

  • We have two kids, 11 and 8.

    We set up a old smartphone as a "house phone". It's shared on my Ting account. We let the kids use it when they go on walks in the neighborhood. Yesterday we had to leave the 11 year old in the house for the morning so we told her to text us every hour that she was OK. She's been left alone for shorter periods so we were thought she could handle it, but she is right on the cusp of the responsibility to be home alone for a few hours. She's not old enough to be home with her sister,

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