InFocus's New Kangaroo: a Screenless $99 Windows 10 Portable PC (venturebeat.com) 224
An anonymous reader writes: InFocus today debuted the Kangaroo, a $99 Windows 10 portable PC that "goes anywhere and works with any screen." The term "mobile desktop" may seem like an oxymoron, but that really is the best description: Picture your typical desktop PC tower shrunk down to the size of a phablet sans screen; just like any desktop, you'll still need to connect a mouse, keyboard, and monitor.
No screen? (Score:2)
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I think the main reason for getting something like this would be to use it as a tiny media center PC. You wouldn't need a screen because your TV becomes the screen.
Of course, whether you're want to use Windows 10 over all the other options is another discussion entirely.
Re: No screen? (Score:5, Interesting)
Did you notice this is from Infocus? They are in the business of selling projectors, I think this is being viewed as a portable PowerPoint machine.
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Phantom console.
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I didn't say it was the best choice - just that there are applications where you don't need a screen with your PC.
Needs better hardware for that 2gb ram / 32g HDD (Score:2)
Needs better hardware for that 2gb ram / 32g HDD way to small for office use.
Also only 2 usb ports and no Ethernet?
Re:No screen? (Score:4, Informative)
Just get a picoprojector if you can't wait to be somewhere with a screen.
Since it's a Windows one, you could always access it with your phone or tablet over Teamviewer or other remote methods.
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Re: No screen? (Score:2)
It includes support for being controlled by an iOS device.
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If I could just plug it into a KVM, or with a small cable connect to my tablet, it would work fine. Finding a display device isn't an insurmountable problem.
Of course, if you can get us the spray on screen, that would be awesome too.
Re: No screen? (Score:2)
VGA HDMI is an easy problem to overcome, and a single USB connection for keyboard/mouse is included on the base. Why do you think this won't hook up to your KVM?
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I don't think it won't. In fact, I assume it will.
I'm explicitly saying lack of a display isn't an insurmountable problem.
That you think that I think this won't hook up to a KVM ... well, that's entirely your own damned problem. Because I never said that.
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Yes: it's called an HMD or an iPad.
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I take public transportation, so bulky and heavy workstation type laptops are not particularly desirable.
Right, so now you carry two tablets, one this kangaoo thing, the other a tablet so you can see what you're doing with it while on the bus. Very convenient.
Re: No screen? (Score:2)
This device is the same size as a 2.5" laptop drive, is that really so bulky?
Is 15" too big or too small? (Score:2)
15" monitors went out with the '90s, man. [But] like many, I take public transportation, so bulky and heavy workstation type laptops are not particularly desirable.
Are you trying to imply that 15" is too big or too small? If too small, then how do you get work done on your bus/train ride to and from work? If you don't expect to actually pull out your laptop on the bus, you could just carry a 32 GB USB flash drive to and from work and use the computers you already have.
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IBM's Metacard redux (Score:3, Interesting)
People keep doing this sort of thing. IBM had Metacard, there was Oqo, and wasn't there a Palm device which was viewed as mostly a media storage device?
Why not go ahead and add a touch screen (and a stylus) so that one can use it w/o needing to cable up?
I use a Toshiba Encore 2 Write 10 as my main system in pretty much this way, connecting when I don't wish to use the touch screen / stylus to a full-size keyboard and monitor (fortunately, Toshiba provided an adapter for the single USB port which affords two connections, one for charging, one for devices).
The functionality I'd really like to see is this sort of thing done as an iPhone / iPod Touch sized unit ---- Apple could take their laptop, make the trackpad a removable unit which was exactly the size of an iPhone/iPod Touch, and one could replace the trackpad w/ the portable device which would then function as a customizable trackpad and which would load the user directory and backup the portable device.
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The functionality I'd really like to see is this sort of thing done as an iPhone / iPod Touch sized unit ---- Apple could take their laptop, make the trackpad a removable unit which was exactly the size of an iPhone/iPod Touch
The iphone already has a large "trackpad". The only thing really needed is a vga/hdmi out on the iphone and when you connect the monitor, the entire phone becomes your trackpad. This solves the "mouse" issue. Now, all you need is a keyboard and monitor where ever you want to use it.
I believe microsoft recently came out with such a device. Not sure what it was called. A cellphone with a video out would probably be adequate for many people. The main problem I see is that most desktop apps I want to use
Re: IBM's Metacard redux (Score:2)
You do know Apple sells a Bluetooth-enabled wireless trackpad, right?
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What I'd like is not to have to carry around an extra device at all -- my cell phone is already in my pocket just about all the time, and these days it's got enough power to work a basic desktop computer, the only drawback is that its small size makes its user interactions less efficient than what a full desktop can provide.
So the ideal usage pattern would be: I walk over to a keyboard/mouse/monitor that is sitting somewhere, sit down in front of it, and my cell phone (still in my pocket) connects to the k
That one app that Apple won't let them port (Score:2)
the midrange iPad has better specs than this thing and a better operating system.
Until you need to use that one app that isn't ported to iPad, possibly because Apple won't let its developer distribute such a port through the App Store [pineight.com].
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Sure, but it runs Windows 10. Only a complete fool would run Windows 10 with its integrated spyware. So this alone makes the device completely worthless.
In other news (Score:5, Funny)
You should see my mobile basketball court. Well... it's just a ball really.
So... (Score:4, Informative)
It's just like a NUC, or Compute Stick, or any of dozens of other micro PCs.
Wait, this one has a battery, but I'm not sure how much of a feature that is when you need an external monitor anyway. I guess it gets you through power hiccoughs?
Power hiccups happen (Score:2)
Wait, this one has a battery, but I'm not sure how much of a feature that is when you need an external monitor anyway.
That depends on whether there are enough plugs for the external monitor but not for the computer. This might happen, say, if you're using an existing TV as a monitor and can bum an HDMI cable off a game console or cable box but don't want to fool around with finding an outlet. Or it might happen if you're connecting to a projector but don't want to run a power cord that someone can trip over.
I guess it gets you through power hiccoughs?
Having had a four-second power outage at home last night, I can attest to the convenience of always having a UPS with
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The battery means you don't have to shut down and reboot. You can suspend and leave all of your applications open.
old is the new new (Score:2)
There's no short supply of small form factor PCs. What about the Raspberry pi, that /. loves to talk about?
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I'd say the primary use is non-portable (Score:4, Interesting)
My parents have a tiny little box like this. Why? Because they are getting old and won't be looking at a 10" screen and fiddle with microscopic virtual buttons or cramped keyboards 2mm deep. Huge monitor, full size keyboard and mouse but in terms of computing power their needs are practically non-existant. Sure it could be a laptop, but the lid would be closed 99.9% of the time so why bother.
Re: I'd say the primary use is non-portable (Score:2)
Meet the latest version of WebTV
Wait a minute... (Score:3, Insightful)
That sounds really familiar [wikimedia.org].
Even more useless (Score:2)
That sounds really familiar [wikimedia.org].
Well, at least the Atari used to have a keyboard, so it could be used as a transportable desktop, you can move it around and need only to plug it into any TV.
TFA's device doesn't have any input, so you need to supply your own keyboard and mouse.
So it isn't as much like Atari/Amiga/Commodore compute of past history, as much as yet another variation of Raspberry Pi, Asus eee, Intel NUC, Intel HDMI compute stick, etc. only with much shittier specs.
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I see. But if it doesn't have any input devices or display devices, how is it different from carrying around a micro ATX computer?
Very similar to the Quantum Byte (Score:2)
This is a useful form factor for some niche applications. The Quantum Byte is a bit more money, but has ethernet, and the I/O ports are all built in - no dock. No battery either. I've used two of these: one sitting in a closet running the client software of a cloud based backup service. The tiny PC backs up the NAS it is sitting next to. I put VNC on the little PC and run it without any attached peripherals at all. The other one is sitting in the server room of a larger business and is connected to the syst
Re: Very similar to the Quantum Byte (Score:2)
I need a computer to run a small windows-only application of trivial size, hooked to a ham radio for remote control purposes. This computer fits the bill nicely, since the radio I hope to control only needs one USB port, and while wifi isn't my preferred connection type, it will work, or a USB Ethernet dongle should work just fine.
I agree, those trying to cast this as the next big thing (and mocking it for falling short) are missing the point - for select use cases, this is an attractive platform, no one sa
lots of those around (Score:2)
There are lots of these small, portable computers around. People like them because they can take their compute environment with them between work and home, because they can tape one of these to the back of their TV, etc.
At $99, this looks like a pretty good deal for an Intel-based computer. If you want to run Linux and are happy with an ARM, of course, a Raspberry Pi or Beaglebone is better and cheaper.
I do this with my Mac Mini (Score:2)
I hate laptops...I work in specific places. I tote my Mac Mini to and fro and plug it into the prepositioned mouse/keyboard/screen combo. It runs Linux and Windows.
Trade the battery for 2GB more ram. (Score:2)
Trade the battery for 2GB more ram.
2GB system is to low.
Espresso PC all over again? (Score:2)
Reminds me of the Espresso PC [cappuccinopc.com]. A very niche design at the time, but let's see if 2015 will be the year of the slabputer (or whatever you want to call this thing).
Ideal wearable! (Score:2)
This thing would be perfect if you want to gargoyle it up, you'd just need a handheld control device and a head-mounted display.
This is getting closer to my ideal smartwatch concept: Where the smartwatch is your primary, maybe only computer, with a basic interface because you're not really meant to use the watch as an interface. You'd use something like a phone, tablet, or laptop sort of like a remote desktop terminal to interact with the computer on your wrist. Something like this might be practical in abo
Did anybody else think about who InFocus is? (Score:3)
This isn't a computer company, this is a projector company. Did no one else immediately think "Oh, they are going to build the dock into projectors, you have a conference room system in one piece that just needs a wireless keyboard/mouse/presentation remote."
The battery means the projector can be as small as a pico projector, with its own built in battery and you have a complete presentation system that fits easily in the briefcase with your sales literature and you are completely wireless.
Add a smartphone with hotspotting, you have complete connectivity (unless you live in the boonies where I live) with no other pieces required for your sales presentation, whether it is in a hotel room or the corner of a MacDonalds.
So yeah, all us geeks want to know how it would work in a beowulf cluster, but I think the real target is going to be non-geeks who really can benefit from not having to worry about whether the potential client has a projector with VGA or HDMI in the conference room.
In the longer view of things, if InFocus standardizes on this dock connector you can upgrade the computer or the projector one at a time. At this price you could even have computers dedicated to a specific presentation, swap the computer, the IT guys back at $bigCo set it up to auto run, you just plug in the computer with your presentation on it. Even easier than swapping out those itty bitty micro SD cards.
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I can't understand who this is for either. I mean Infocus so I guess its for presentations. If you can cable up a display or projector how likely is it you need a battery? What the hell is the point in that? Are supposed to pair with a portable battery powered projector? Is there really a market for people who need to give a enough presentations in places without basic instructor to buy this thing?
In every other use case I can think of and in fact even giving presentations its hard to imagine you'd not
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If you can cable up a display or projector how likely is it you need a battery?
In the hotel, you connect it to the TV in the room, which usually has HDMI now. In the meeting room, you connect it to their projector, or to your own portable battery-operated unit. I presume InFocus makes one of those, too, but I don't work for them so I'm not going to look it up.
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And are typically blocked off either physically or in software. But if you're in a hotel you could just plug it into the wall anyway. Plus most laptops and tablets have HDMI out, and if you're carrying around clothes for a trip adding a laptop or tablet into the mix doesn't add too much weight or bulk to your luggage.
But you'd ha
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I got an HP Stream 7 for the same price (same specs) and it has a screen. It's nice to carry a portable 7" Windows 10 full desktop OS around with you sometimes.
Can you connect your HP Stream 7 to an external monitor or projector? Different use cases I guess then.
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Re: Windows 10? Really? (Score:3)
You didn't bother to read the product description, did you? The computer includes a microSD slot to increase storage, and it comes bundled with an iOS app that lets you control (screen, Keyboard, mouse) this computer wirelessly from your iPad... This computer could be in your carry-on luggage and you can access it in your seat below wirelessly.
Of cour
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Re: Windows 10? Really? (Score:2)
Who said Mac mini?
It's a computer without a display, sold by a company that, wait for it, ALREADY sells displays.
Re:Nice! (Score:5, Insightful)
Does it run Linux ?
Re:Nice! (Score:4, Insightful)
Does it run Linux ?
I second this question; I'm done with Windows and Microsoft in general, and would rather not have a computer at all anymore than ever have Orwellian Windows 10.
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Re:Nice! (Score:5, Informative)
If you want to run Linux, buy something ARM-based, like Banana Pi or Raspberry Pi 2. There are quite descent boards, and they are much cheaper than $99.
Re: Nice! (Score:5, Informative)
The $99 cost for this computer includes wifi, Bluetooth, a case, power supply, 4 hour battery, and 32 gig of storage. To similarly build up a Raspberry Pi would cost almost as much as this computer at $99.
Re: Nice! (Score:4, Informative)
I see no indication the dock is not included in the $99 introductory offer, and the review I read on Venturebeat.com [venturebeat.com] clearly indicates the dock is included...
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I see no indication the dock is not included in the $99 introductory offer, and the review I read on Venturebeat.com [venturebeat.com] clearly indicates the dock is included...
You better read the Newegg.com reviews because you're totally and completely wrong. No dock included at $99. And the $39 dock is "out of stock". LOL http://www.newegg.com/Product/... [newegg.com]
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I wouldn't expect many of those "other apps" to run terribly well on a $100 x86 PC. This is probably not something that will be a suitable gateway for all of those Windows legacy apps unless it's through running an RDP client.
Atom is as strong as P4 (Score:2)
I wouldn't expect many of those "other apps" to run terribly well on a $100 x86 PC.
As I understand it, an Atom CPU roughly matches the performance of a Pentium 4 CPU clock for clock. This means an old application that runs well on a P4 will also run well on an Atom.
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Apps developed knowing that P4 IPC was terrible (Score:2)
The NetBurst architecture in the P4 is legendary for it's terrible performance per clock.
Authors of applications intended for said architecture were probably aware of its terrible IPC. This means the applications will run fine on Atom, which has IPC that's similarly terrible but for a different reason.
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The NetBurst architecture in the P4 is legendary for it's terrible performance per clock.
Authors of applications intended for said architecture were probably aware of its terrible IPC. This means the applications will run fine on Atom, which has IPC that's similarly terrible but for a different reason.
I wouldn't count on it. Atom also has a lame ass pipeline.
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Atom, which has IPC that's similarly terrible
Atom also has a lame ass pipeline.
That's what I said. Let me rephrase: If performance of a particular application was acceptable on the "lame ass pipeline" of P4 NetBurst, it will also be acceptable on the "lame ass pipeline" of a similarly clocked Atom. Or is Atom noticeably even lamer than P4?
Besides, is there a viable alternative? Some free applications for Windows can be recompiled to run with Winelib on ARM. But is ARM noticeably better than Atom?
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While AMD focused in increasing performance per clock with the Athlon, Intel intended to increase performance through higher clock speeds.
Higher clock and longer pipeline. The latter was the real killer. Fine for straight up linear code, but not so much if the pipeline stalls multiple times per microsecond.
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As I understand it, an Atom CPU roughly matches the performance of a Pentium 4 CPU clock for clock. This means an old application that runs well on a P4 will also run well on an Atom.
Sad to say, I bought Atom based notebooks a total of three times, having failed to learn my lesson the first time. Disappointed every time despite claims the the effect that it's better this time, honest! The truth: low performing, desk melting, battery chewing junk that I regret owning. Thanks for the effort Intel, but there will be no fourth Atom attempt from me.
On the other hand, every ARM-based device I have (about 8 now) is a pleasure to use.
(...but I have a Pentium 4 based shoebox that is still going
ARM Winelib (Score:2)
On the other hand, every ARM-based device I have (about 8 now) is a pleasure to use.
Say I have a few Windows applications that are free software, something like Modplug Tracker or FamiTracker. Has anyone had success at recompiling Windows applications with Winelib [winehq.org] so that they'll run on ARM Linux boxes?
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Economies of scale, returns, and trialware subsidy (Score:4, Informative)
The GNU/Linux version is often more expensive, and I'm told this is for three reasons: lack of economies of scale, cost of handling returns from novices who end up buying the wrong thing, and the claim that the royalties paid by publishers of included trialware more than subsidize the royalty paid to Microsoft for Windows.
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The GNU/Linux version is often more expensive, and I'm told this is for three reasons: lack of economies of scale, cost of handling returns from novices who end up buying the wrong thing, and the claim that the royalties paid by publishers of included trialware more than subsidize the royalty paid to Microsoft for Windows.
Maybe true, maybe not. I find these guys deal fairly and don't sell you junk:
http://thelinuxlaptop.com/ [thelinuxlaptop.com]
Re:Nice! (Score:5, Interesting)
Or, as I prefer, no OS at all? I don't want (or need) you to put an OS on my box. I can, and will, do that on my own. In fact, it's the first thing I do. If I want BSD then I'll put it on there. If I want Linux, I'll put that on there. If I want Windows, well... Let's not go that far, but you get the idea. I'm happy, capable, and willing to accept any risks and do my own software support, thanks. I don't need an OS installed, I can read the help files if needed. I don't need to have anything pre-configured, thanks, I'd prefer to customize it myself (and probably will) so you're not really saving me any time. I don't want "just works" out of the box. I want what I want to "just work" when I'm done with it.
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What kind of moron would want to buy something that runs Windows 10?
Re: Timothy getting a commission from Newegg now? (Score:4, Insightful)
Anyone that wants a small computer to tuck in their projector bag for sales presentations.
Anyone that wants to setup a kiosk.
Anyone that wants to run Windows apps 'on' their iPad (includes software for iPad to act as keyboard/screen for this wifi/Bluetooth enabled computer).
Anyone that wants to embrace the idea of 'hot desks' in their office without buying scads of laptops.
Anyone that wants to put an inexpensive presentation system in a conference room (just add Bluetooth keyboard/mouse and connect to large flat panel/projector).
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Anyone that wants a small computer to tuck in their projector bag for sales presentations.
I can already do this with my phone! The only thing needed in the bag is the adapter.
Anyone that wants to setup a kiosk.
RPi is cheaper and can do more.
Anyone that wants to run Windows apps 'on' their iPad (includes software for iPad to act as keyboard/screen for this wifi/Bluetooth enabled computer).
What windows apps would you want or need to run on your iPad that you couldn't get access to via something like CloudOn? What Windows apps would be needed to view or edit files on an iPad? Makes no sense to anyone that actually owns and uses an iPad. There are apps for that stuff already, way cheaper than a $99 POS.
Anyone that wants to embrace the idea of 'hot desks' in their office without buying scads of laptops.
Yeah, because that has worked out so well for the people that have already embr
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What kind of moron would want to buy something that runs Windows
Somebody who wants an affordable[1] PC with a multi-window window manager[2] and no prompt to wipe the drive every time it is turned on,[3] possibly running the occasional Windows app,[4] in a shape or size that System76 does not offer.
[1] Not a Mac
[2] Not a stock Android tablet
[3] Not a Chromebook with Crouton
[4] Not an ARM box, which can't run Wine
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The industry could make large strides towards retiring VGA if they would just stop making "VGA-only" monitors. You can still buy them today, from all the major brands.
Yes, the odd use case requires VGA, I'm not saying they should stop selling monitors that support VGA. I'm not even saying VGA should be removed from the monitor... just stop making and selling LED/LCD monitors that ONLY do VGA.
Audio out, HDMI patents, and HDCP DRM (Score:2)
I can think of a few cost reasons to make VGA-only monitors:
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Not too long ago, I needed an small monitor for work, so I went to my local office supply store, and picked up a small, cheapo monitor. It wasn't until I got it home and tried to plug it in that I realized it was VGA-ONLY. Yeah, a brand-new Dell monitor. WTF, are you kidding me? I mean, my fault for not checking the specs first (I assumed any new monitor would have DVI ports at minimum), but seriously? VGA monitors are apparently not dead yet - they're still selling them as we speak. Lame.
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What's lame is lack of dual VGA on graphics card, or worse : most graphics cards and all nvidia ones still have one VGA, some recent AMD ones have none. DVI-I counted as a VGA output for the purpose of this post.
There are HDMI to VGA and Displayport to VGA adapters, the latter have crashed in price thanksfully (used to be 100€ and they seem to be available for 10€ or less) now what's needed is Displayport on 30€ graphics cards and 50€ motherboards it works both for 4K freaks and CRT frea
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For when you want the inconvenience of either needing wherever you are to already have all of these peripherals, or carrying them around yourself.
What I see is a way to own a Windows 10 PC without the biggest major drawback -- having to look at it.
Re: And not a laptop why? (Score:2)
Yo understand this device is being offered by Infocus, the projector people, right? Perhaps they view this as a device which compliments their current offerings?
How long before they sell projectors with built-in docking bays for these devices?
Intel compute stick (Score:2)
Seriously, though - sounds like a great setup for a low power HTPC.
You can get an Intel HDMI Compute Stick with way much better specs at nearly similar price point.
Re: Intel compute stick (Score:2)
The Intel HDMI compute sick does not include a battery and ONLY works when attached to an HDMI monitor... And sells for the same price ($100 +/-)
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Re: Intel compute stick (Score:2)
Which specs are 'way much better' on the Intel HDMI compute stick? Similar CPU, RAM, and storage space AFAIK from a quick review of the specs...
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Raspberry Pi 2 runs Windows 10.
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Forgot the link:
https://www.raspberrypi.org/fo... [raspberrypi.org]
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No GUI on Windows 10 IoT, so pretty much useless for most things.
Re: Like a Raspberry Pi, then? (Score:2)
And the case.
And the power supply
And the wifi.
And the Bluetooth.
And the 32 gig built-in storage.
And the quad-core x86 cpu....
Yeah, aside from those differences, 'just like a raspberry pi'
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> Your point being? Or since the Raspberry Pi is like numerous other products before it we should have shrugged it off too?
I did shrug it off after I actually tried it and found it far less exiting than I thought I would. It was interesting in that it was really cheap and was a platform that couldn't run Windows. Beyond that, I didn't find it terribly useful.
Also, what kind of idiot thinks that the PI "invented" this kind of form factor?
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There is now a Windows 10 version that runs on the Pi, but it has no GUI, so it isn't terribly useful.
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The price marks this as a "low powered" device.
For low powered devices, Winders is free. Kind of a "lets get you hooked until you want a REAL machine" kind of thing. This breaks down as now these "low powered" machines now can beat a desktop from a few years ago.
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The price marks this as a "low powered" device.
For low powered devices, Winders is free. Kind of a "lets get you hooked until you want a REAL machine" kind of thing. This breaks down as now these "low powered" machines now can beat a desktop from a few years ago.
It also breaks down because it's a Sherman act violation.[1] I wonder how long it will take the DoJ to get around to prosecuting, or will the EU need to step in again?
[1] Dumping. Illegal under the Sherman and Clayton acts [money-zine.com].