The Promise of 5G 158
An anonymous reader writes: From instant monitoring of leaking pipelines, to real-time worldwide collaboration, the increase in machine-to-machine communications that 5G allows will change the way we live. This TechCrunch article takes a look at the promise that 5G holds and its possibilities. From the article: "By 2030, 5G will transform and create many uses that we cannot even think of yet. We will live in a world that will have 10-100 times more Internet-connected devices than there are humans. Hundreds of billions of machines will be sensing, processing and transmitting data without direct human control and intervention."
Flying Car (Score:4, Funny)
This is the contemporary version of the "flying car". It's nonsense that will never happen. Ever.
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Hundreds of billions of machines will be sensing, processing and transmitting data without direct human control and intervention."
Cell phones, cars, kettles from China that come with hidden hardware for plugging into botnets ... we'll be up to a hundred billion easy.
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well.. 5g "will happen" and it will be faster than stuff before.
but really whe the fuck do you need to make an article about it that doesn't talk anything about the technologies trying to be that technology?
well, it's techcruncchchhchhchch. never ever open a link to there, it will just make you more stupid. and you know what, I bet 10 000 cto's are mailing this to their ceo's in an effort to seem like they're on top of things.. that's what wankcrucnhhch is for - another thing it's for is to inject a news st
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Yes. Both will gone once it eradicates the human infestation.
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According to the article
The benefits extend far beyond convenience and avoiding traffic jams. The opportunity to not just reduce, but eliminate, car accidents will translate to saving more than one million lives every year in the U.S. alone. This means saving $300 billion in economic costs due to car crashes, and reducing annual CO2 emissions by as much as 300 million tons, just in U.S.
According to the CDC there are about 2.5 million deaths each year and about 130,000 accidental deaths each year. So I very
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Yeah, this article is almost complete bollocks and the author is a complete idiot.
First, there are fewer than 35,000 traffic related deaths per year in the U.S. and that number, while still way too high, is dropping. Yes, self driving cars will dramatically reduce this number, even if we manage to implement them in a way where perfect doesn't get in the way of good enough.
NHTSA reports traffic fatalities fell 3.1 percent in 2013 to 32,719 people from 33,782 in 2012. An estimated 2.31 million people were injured in motor vehicle crashes in 2013, down 2.1 percent from 2.36 in 2012.
New findings from the Insurance Research Council's (IRC) Auto Injury Insurance Claims Study shows that medical expenses reported by auto injury claimants continue to increase faster than the rate of inflation, in spite of the fact that the severity of the injuries themselves remain on a downward trend. From 2007 to 2012, average claimed economic losses (which include expenses for medical care, lost wages and other out-of-pocket expenditures) grew 8 percent annualized among personal injury protection (PIP) claimants. Among bodily injury (BI) claimants, average claimed losses grew 4 percent. Over the same period, measures such as the percentage of claimants who had no visible injuries at the accident scene or who had fewer than 10 days in which they were unable to perform their usual daily activities provided evidence of a continuing decline in the severity of injuries.
In 2013, the average auto liability claim for property damage was $3,231; the average auto liability claim for bodily injury was $15,443 (ISO, a Verisk Analytics company).
In 2013, the average collision claim was $3,144; the average comprehensive claim was $1,621 (ISO, a Verisk Analytics company).
In addition, there is no reason that self driving cars will need 5G to operate. In fact, almost all of the manufacturers working on dri
Re: Flying Car (Score:4, Insightful)
Hossein Moiin (author) is executive vice president and CTO of Nokia Networks.
Wow...how far Nokia has sunk.
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Meanwhile, M2M mostly happens over 2G these days. More than a few are unhappy with AT&T's announcement that they are shutting 2G down. There are a few modules for 3G targeted at M2M coming out.
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Re: Flying Car (Score:2)
Will the USA become over populated?
No car deaths or aircraft downs will mean we can all expect to live to 120
What could possibly go wrong? (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean, afterall, we're all so good at network security now...
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yes, they have changed the little number in the corner of your cell phone from 2, to 3 to 4.
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Maybe we will visually act with the data in another way? I'm still not plugging any of that shit in but tech may be very different by 2030 in some other guy's house. The last thing I want is more computer stuff. :/ I have piles of stuff I do not even play with already. We all do. How many of us could not build at least one decent computer out of parts or has not already done so and is using it currently? Who knows where it will be, though.
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Roy Scheider, police chief in Jaws, to Roy Scheider, NSA chief in 2010 Odyssey 2: "We're gonna need a bigger multibillion dollar spy computer center."
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Thoughts (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Thoughts (Score:5, Interesting)
I just cannot get excited about 5G because there are still large gaps in 4G coverage. I'd like to see the telecoms finish what they started.
I can't get excited over 4G because we haven't actually got it yet. LTE is still a 3.9G tech, LTE Advanced was supposed to be the first 4G technology according to the ITU definitions.
But then the marketing trolls decided that they could just re-define words to mean whatever the hell they wanted to and 4G went from a well defined standard to arbitrary marketspeak. Some telco's had rebranded HSPA+ as 4G, because of this 5G has no real meaning and it will just lead to marking one-upmanship. "Our competitors are still on 6G, we've gone to 11G" without actually telling you they haven't changed technology at all.
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Part of the blame lies with the ITU for defining a pie-in-the-sky practically sci-fi (for the time when it was specified) standard as the next official milestone. That left all of the carriers in a tough spot, as they would be investing millions or billions in rolling out a brand-new technology (LTE) that would give them an order of magnitude speed boost, but would be forbidden from calling it a next generation technology.
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So 4G is the Firefox of wireless?
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Are you saying I shouldn't buy Cat6 cable to replace my Cat 5E because there's still one run of Cat 4 cable in my house?
I hate the idea of stalling technical progress because the previous generation failed to reach 100% ubiquity and would sooner not pay a telecom company to install equipment which is actively reaching end of it's lifecycle.
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Everyone said the same thing about 4G... and you know what? They were right. Right now, there are STILL large gaps in 3G coverage!
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Heh, I still have that problem with 3G. I just want stabliblity (sometimes bad as 1X and nothing) and decent unlimited speeds with it.
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I was told 4G would 'revolutionise' my life and I'd be throwing away my "old tech" home broadband because 4G was going to be so awesome.
I actually do have 4G in a few places I spend a lot of time. There's no way I'd ditch my broadband for it though - I've tried using it for tethering, and it's terribly slow compared. It just doesn't cut it against even a decent ADSL broadband connection (let along against fibre or similar). It's fine for downloading my email on the move, and even for looking stuff up online
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we were just ranked the worst cell coverage in the country
worry about 5G when you can get 4G (or even 3G... or even a standard 1x signal....) going
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Because that's not how these gaps in coverage work. They aren't blanketing the country and filling in the gaps with the latest gen technology... They're just upgrading the previous gen installations, so that the biggest urban centers go from 2G->3G->4G->5G while the holes remain unfilled. There are vast areas of my state that are still only 2G and they're not just the unoccupied areas.
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So how does that happen? Instead of that, or finally covering the areas that have no coverage, the telecomms will declare 3G obsolete and 4G deprecated and start over putting 5G in places that already have plenty of coverage while other places go with none. Eventually, they'll have 5G coverage where they now have 4G coverage and would get around to the places with none except by then 6G will come out and they'll lather, rinse, and repeat.
That's pretty much what happened when 2G, 3G, and 4G came out.
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They may be very vocal, but they are few.
I'm guessing most people in rural areas live there because they either were born there and simply see no good reason to leave, have rural jobs or like the peace and quiet.
You mention laws limiting placement, not banning them altogether. I wouldn't be surprised if New York had a law limiting placement of antennas on the statue of liberty either. "Ruins the view" is a pretty good reason to limit corporate interests.
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The issue is that the middle of New York and Pennsylvania and other places are filled with mountains. That means they need to put a cell tower on each one to get full coverage, and there isn't enough people there to make it worth their while. Easier to stick to the metro areas where the money is to be made.
Waste of time (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Waste of time (Score:5, Funny)
Oh, is that what those underlined phrases do? Never clicked one.
Article is completely meaningless (Score:5, Insightful)
And speaking of 4G vs 5G... I can burn through my 5 GB/month data allowance in about 45 minutes by maxing out my 4G connection. Not in any hurry to do it in 45 seconds via 5G.
O RLY? 4G is way too slow for real-time traffic.
Re:Article is completely meaningless (Score:4, Funny)
O RLY? 4G is way too slow for real-time traffic.
Are you having an argument with yourself?
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Are you having an argument with yourself?
No, I'm not.
Yes, I am!
Am not!
Oh shut up. Y'know, sometimes, I really get on our nerves.
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There is far more to 5G than speed increases.
Less latency, better tower handover, less setup and negotiation time, by all first research it will have a far more efficient use of bandwidth and equipment allowing a much larger subscriber density (which is critical when every bloody device is IoT)
No one gives 2 shits about the speed except for those people working on using 5G to backhaul data from 5G subscribers.
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2.5g is fast enough for real time traffic updates..
what you need is less shitty data plans from your provider.. oh finland finland home of the 10 bucks/month / 100 gb+ connections.
Watch out (Score:5, Funny)
Hundreds of billions of machines will be sensing, processing and transmitting data without direct human control and intervention.
Your toaster is talking about you behind your back.
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to think instead of skynet launching a nuclear strike, the instead will make our fridges burn out, tie up our comm networks, say they're obsolete every 18 months, make our toast have colored sprinkles when we ordered them plain, and will refuse to accept our credit cards because we didn't entire the pin number fast enough. oh yeah, and a few more rads of exposure every 18 months as they invent new standards of communication.
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Have your refrigerator call my shoe to set up an appointment... we can talk about it.
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The guy who says such a thing has to be named Vinnie and have a New York accent, say Queens, and I am in.
5G? I'd settle for reliable 3G. (Score:5, Informative)
The subject kind of says it all. Around here we have pockets of LTE, larger areas of 3G, but the bulk of our geographic area has no service or just barely enough to send and receive an SMS message. I don't see where 5G means a thing to us here.
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Wow, it's almost like private businesses don't spend money to help poor people download Youtube videos of tractor pulls.
Maybe you should move to the city, country bumpkin.
Yay! (Score:2)
Re: Yay! (Score:3, Funny)
So you're saying Comcast is going to grandfather their old Sodomy plans in for customers changing plans?
Woo hoo!
Yeah, maybe we'll get hoverboards too (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: Yeah, maybe we'll get hoverboards too (Score:4, Funny)
Don't worry T-Mobile's new unlimited plans are unlimited until you exhaust your alloted bandwidth.
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The grandfathered plans are still around I can vouch I have one I greatly depend on.
I used 150gb last month.
We Must Dissent (Score:2)
Anyone else get a feeling of: The Self Aware Colony [youtube.com] from good old Alpha Centauri? Layers and layers of automated systems that keep the cities running "smoothly."
But, there is no 4G yet (Score:2, Insightful)
The Nokia executive who wrote this article is spouting misinformation here. Talking about 5G, when 4G systems don't exist yet. LTE (Long Term Evolution) service is 3G which is (in theory) moving towards meeting 4G standards of 1 gigabit/sec, but is nowhere even close to that now. It's only branding. Considering AOL owns techcrunch, this is clearly a PR/propaganda piece which no content of any actual value in the entire article. Even the slashdot summary is misinformed. The only way you'll be seeing 5G is in
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If it's only branding, then what passes off as 4G is actually 4G?
I don't remember that much what are the difference between LTE and LTE Advanced but we could care less about getting to 1 Gbps in unrealistic or useless conditions.
The real performance is when e.g. 20 people are uploading or downloading simultaneously, in a real word setting. Does the "3.9G" LTE lose badly next to "real 4G" LTE? Or is it about the same, but the latter has a useless high-bandwith mode for feature checking and for allowing highe
By 2030 .... (Score:3, Insightful)
Anything to trade you up to a new two year contract.
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The RF technology doesn't do that. The latest super retina display that is so good you can't even make out pixels under the microscope will make you do that.
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It does because you have to buy a new phone to use it.
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Except I don't know any body ever who has bought a new phone because they wanted to use LTE or 3G or 4G or whatever.
Every single person I have ever met has a new phone because either:
a) Their previous contract expired
b) Apple released a new shiny thing they absolutely had to have and justified breaking their contract to get.
c) Their company issued an upgrade.
Part if this is usually to do with timing. When your new phone gets the latest and greatest modem there's every chance coverage even in major cities is
If we continue to suck this bad at IT security... (Score:2)
... then this future will not materialize any time soon, as none of these devices will work right. If what happens currently with mobile phones is any indicator, then all the stupid mistakes will be made all over again with the "Internet of Things", likely including no easy way to patch your fridge, stove, etc. Of course, this may eventually be fixed, but there is no way in this universe to make that by 2030. If we are really lucky, mobile phones will be reasonable secure by then, but that is it.
Faster speed, fewer options (Score:3, Insightful)
The non-linear, if not exactly exponential, growth of information-related technologies from Moore's proverbial microchips to wide area network speeds appear to have the side effect of placing important aspects of global civilization under the control of a few companies when they have the equal potential to decentralize it. Why has Google search become for most people the starting point for research or Facebook the dominant means of text-based communication?
I know the arguments for economies of scale. But why can't we have mesh or peer-to-peer versions of these technologies where we don't have to rely on the good intentions or fault tolerance of a few dozen IT behemoths? We now have the equivalent of an '80s supercomputer in our pockets. Why can't I just beam my documents or videos directly to my friend on the other side of town, instead of routing them right across the world?
Critics scoffed at the ease with which a human "hacker" brought down the alien invasion force in Independence Day. I'm thinking the movie's a metaphor for where the Internet and all our information technologies are heading.
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Pretty much this.
Also a true Peer-to-Peer model where they couldn't run the risk of losing someone would be really damn unwieldy. I mean stuff like the old Limewire and such where you didn't really need to access everyone at any given moment and if they dropped off your list, it didn't really matter. Losing your link to the person you were dealing with wasn't a huge deal and even then, you still were connecting via IP address which was being managed by another entity with a hierarchy to it.
Now, to do that w
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Why the hell is this modded down. That's as insightful a post as any.
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AC starts at zero if you do not apply any bonus to it and you are signed in. It is zero for ACs to. Not at -1... Not unless they have changed something. I probably would have heard about it.
Yes, 5G is needed (Score:2)
Yes, because you really need 5G over 3G for a pipeline monitor to send "There's a leak"
Re: Yes, 5G is needed (Score:4, Funny)
Silly Canadian, here in the US we use our cellular network for more than monitoring maple syrup storage silos.
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Re: Yes, 5G is needed (Score:2)
Protip UK guy: They don't like being called "coloured." At least at the moment, they change their minds a lot.
5G will not deliver all the promises of 3G or 4G (Score:2, Informative)
And what about security, will this prevent Russian gangs from looting my bank account.
With 5G do you get free credit monitoring or virus scanning?
Will my driverless car be able to be controlled by hackers using my sound system?
The 5G forecast is cloudy.... film at 11 ... in other news you will be able to send email from your spreadsheet
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Limited bandwidth, cheap per gig plans per month or expensive plans for more data is the better lock in.
If the local usage ever really gets saturated then the limitations of huge amounts of people wanting perfect low cost networking on very limited bandwidth will start to be interesting.
Re "And what about security?" Local city, state, parish and federal gov official
Reach your data cap up to 40X faster! (Score:3)
Reach your data cap up to 40X faster!
That is all.
What? Is 5G going to be free? (Score:1)
If not, I won't see any difference, unless WIFI has a matching speed increase.
bogus article. (Score:1)
The article shows a lot of numbers about the prospects of 5G that the author pulls out of his
ass. He is wrong by a factor of 28 for yearly US car fatalities so we should not bother to
think any other number is serious. Also I am not sure how the number relates to 5G.
> The opportunity to not just reduce, but eliminate, car accidents will translate to saving more than one million lives every year in the U.S. alone.
the real number is ~36k which is pretty big compared to other developed countries. That gives
What Does N-G Mean? (Score:2)
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5G to the rescue! (Score:5, Insightful)
"Statistics show that 20 percent of our water supply is lost every single day because of leaks in the pipes that make up the national infrastructure...
Monitoring every pipe in real time would require the ability to gather and analyze huge volumes of data at speeds that are just not possible today. "
I'm not sure how 5G is going to help our 100 year old supply pipes that we can't even afford to repair. Perhaps we can plug the cracks with 5G Nokia phones.
This appears to be a promo aimed at ignorant investors. It's hard to believe that the Nokia CTO would write such nonsense to the tech savvy.
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My local municipality already monitors water lines on a per-household basis in near-realtime, using existing 900MHz license-free ISM bands.
This is primarily for billing (there aren't any more human meter readers peering into holes in the ground), but is also used for leak detection.
The system was rolled out quietly and without fanfare, and seems to work well.
So we'll blow through our bandwidth in 30 seconds? (Score:1)
Bandwidth caps are so low and prices for bandwidth are so high that even 4G isn't really practical. what are you doing with it?
Most people have bandwidth caps around 2 GBs to 10 GBs.
I'm over wireless anywhere internet provided by the cellphone companies. Its bullshit.
I'm looking forward to google's new project where they only bill you for bandwidth used and they'll bill your bandwidth in a flat way. So the first megabyte costs as much as the last megabyte. The concept will be to run most traffic through wif
5G and rf frequency spectrum (Score:3)
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How are all these 5G devices going to fit into the same rf spectrum?
Shorter range. More towers.
The history of stupid (Score:5, Insightful)
First, an inventor invented invented a pipe, and installed it, and it was found to leak. Then a plumber improved the pipe and re-installed it, and would never leak again.
Then a new-age company said they could build a cheaper pipe to save costs. It was installed, and it leaked only sometimes. Then a plumber figured out precisely how often it would leak, and designed a maintenance plan to prevent it from leaking, so the leaking would never be a problem again.
Then an accountant saw the money being spent on maintenance of a pipe that didn't leak, and reduced the maintenance until it started to leak.
Now, a new-age company is offering to invent and build and install billions of sensors on the pipe, to see when it's leaking, so we'll know when to perform the maintenance.
It'll work great. Not only will we know exactly when to send out the maintenance crew -- i.e. pretty close to the same rate as when the plumber designed the maintenance plan the first time, because he wasn't stupid -- but we'll spend more money on the sensors than we will on the pipe.
As my mother's always said. You can pay me now, or you can pay me later. So the pipe will be cheap, and the maintenance will be occasional, and the sensors will be amazing.
And then we'll save money on the sensors.
And then we'll have a maintenance plan for the sensors.
And then we'll start monitoring the sensors.
It's turtles all the way down.
Anyone remember how much the high quality pipe that didn't leak in the first place cost? I didn't think so.
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Your base assumption is incorrect. The real goal of the sensor net is to register the detailed, real-time, water usage of every household. This data set will then be added to all the other data being collected to further advance the surveillance society we are living in.
Leaking pipes is just the vehicle to sell this plan on.
Re: The history of stupid (Score:1)
6G (Score:3)
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IoT directly connected (Score:2)
Why is this a good idea? I have a house full of smart devices the last thing I want is them connecting directly out to the internet. Sure my house knows the weather forecast and adjusts heating/cooling based upon that. It knows when I'm headed home and to crank up the hut tub turn the lights on and continue my playlist from where I left off in the car. None of this would be aided by direct connectivity, it would only be giving up security and control.
I would love a fridge that could tell me my current l
Good for the rest of the world (Score:2)
Puff piece (Score:2)
Don't bother reading if you expect to see any technical insight. The article summary is "oh gosh gee whiz it's so gosh darn fast" followed by a dump about all kinds of amazing things a really fast data link might enable.
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Thanks for the insightful comment, I skipped reading the article and saved time.
billions of machines hooked to botnets (Score:4, Insightful)
Hundreds of billions of machines will be sensing, processing and transmitting data without direct human control and intervention."
Hundreds of billions of machines will be connected to botnets that will be indirectly controlled by humans for fun and profit at the expense of others.
Might happen sooner (Score:2)
This might appear 10 years sooner if the FCC would get the hell out of the way. Profit motive, you know.
Never mind that... (Score:1)
Advertising (Score:2)
Once everybody is on 5G, it will make it possible for ALL devices to show us advertising. Your refrigerator, your faucet, your toilet, your chair...they will ALL be conspiring to show you advertisements, all the time. As long as AdBlockPlus gets ported to all these devices, we'll be OK!
Re:Heard this before (Score:5, Interesting)
Now, most of these were achieved with "G" and "2G" speeds. It's tough to say that beyond being able to add realtime video capability that there have been too many significant improvements.
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Automatic failover from DSL links are something that 3G and latter have provided to some remote sites that transmit a lot of data.
Re: Heard this before (Score:1)
Cellphone hammers? You mean Nokia phones?
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The article was written by some clueless moron who has absolutely no grasp of . . . well, anything. As he breathlessly sings the praises of all the miraculous things we'll be able to do with 5G, while completely ignoring (or completely unaware of) the fact that we can already do all of these things with 4G and/or conventional internet connections.
Re: The bees... (Score:2)
It doesn't matter, Elon Musks new cyberbees are going to make traditional bees obsolete.
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I guess that 5G slices and dices and makes Julian fries...
That's fine for Julian, I guess the rest of us will have to wait for 6G to make our julienned [reference.com] fries.