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Lenovo Saying Goodbye To Bloatware 210

Posted by Soulskill from the time-to-start-demanding-other-vendors-follow-suit dept.
An anonymous reader writes: "Lenovo today announced that it has had enough of bloatware. The world's largest PC vendor says that by the time Windows 10 comes out, it will get rid of bloatware from its computer lineups. The announcement comes a week after the company was caught for shipping Superfish adware with its computers. The Chinese PC manufacturer has since released a public apology, Superfish removal tool, and instructions to help out users. At the sidelines, the company also announced that it is giving away 6-month free subscription to McAfee LiveSafe for all Superfish-affected users.
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Lenovo Saying Goodbye To Bloatware More

Lenovo Saying Goodbye To Bloatware

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  • Subscription to what? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 27, 2015 @04:35PM (#49149511)

    More superfish?

    • Re:Subscription to what? (Score:4, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 27, 2015 @05:32PM (#49149977)

      BetaNews article [betanews.com] says: McAfee LiveSafe security suite

    • To having Communists read your stuff.

      Seriously, I was buying Lenovo before now. I did not get burned on Superfish. But I'm done with Lenovo. If this is what they try get away with without effort at hiding, then what they are they spending effort on hiding? I don't need the PRC in my network also, I have the NSA for that.

  • Bloatware?! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 27, 2015 @04:36PM (#49149521)

    I don't understand why people call it "bloatware". This helpful software does many useful things for the user. It essentially subsidizes your $1000 computer into a more affordable $500 or so machine!

    The manufacturer gets money for the installation, and you get helpful software that reduces your costs!

    What would people do without search aggregators, browser toolbars, download accelerators, etc?

    Maybe people should pay the full cost of the software that comes on their machines. Suddenly your "bargain" $350 "bloats" up to a $700. How about paying the full cost for Windows? How about paying the full cost for say hotmail access?

    Software isn't , and shouldn't always be "free".

    There should be an option for a "bloat" free computer, with the user paying the full cost for software.

    • I would pay more for a computer/phone/etc guaranteed not to have pre-installed stuff on it that I don't want. Not a lot more but....more

      • Re: Bloatware?! (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Pay them to not fill your brand new machine with crap? Name another market where you do that...

        • Re: Bloatware?! (Score:5, Funny)

          by mrchaotica ( 681592 ) * on Friday February 27, 2015 @05:19PM (#49149875)

          Pay them to not fill your brand new machine with crap? Name another market where you do that...

          "Natural" vs. regular processed foods.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by xaxa ( 988988 )

          Pay them to not fill your brand new machine with crap? Name another market where you do that...

          Some people fly with Ryanair, who play advertisements several times in the flight. That annoyed me more than anything else last time I flew with Ryanair. They also have more up-sells on their website, which can be tricky for some people (e.g. old pensioners) to avoid, who end up buying insurance they don't need.

          Paying for TV means paying for a load of advertisements.

          Same with magazines and newspapers.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by thpdg ( 519053 )

          Google Edition cell phones perhaps?

      • The question is, would you pay 1/2 the price if it was ... better?

        OnePlus has a lot of detractors, but the issue of price and bloat has been answered, at least in the Phone Arena.

      • Re:Bloatware?! (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Dutch Gun ( 899105 ) on Friday February 27, 2015 @05:41PM (#49150065)

        I've shopped at a small boutique dealer for years for my desktop PCs, and they pride themselves on excellent quality, customization, and customer service. They'll install Windows, Ubuntu, or even no OS at all, and naturally, no crapware in sight. The QA they put each custom machine through is also impressive, and you can actually watch your machine as it goes through the process.

        That sort of quality still exists if you look around a bit, and are willing to pay for it. I haven't done any real price matching, as it's hard to make perfect apples-to-apples comparisons (for instance, other chains often don't tell you the exact motherboard model or what type of power supplies they use), but you do certainly pay considerably more than the typical computers you'd find at Dell or other large chains. Totally worth it to me though.

      • Re:Bloatware?! (Score:5, Insightful)

        by mattventura ( 1408229 ) on Friday February 27, 2015 @05:52PM (#49150131) Homepage
        To the contrary, I love bloatware because it means other people are subsidizing my PC that I'm going to be installing a fresh OS upon receiving anyway.

        • To the contrary, I love bloatware because it means other people are subsidizing my PC that I'm going to be installing a fresh OS upon receiving anyway.

          Even the OEM recovery media (that comes on a DVD or that you have to recreate yourself with an included tool) contains the same crapware. So you would need to buy a separate Windows copy for that purpose, increasing the total cost.

          • Buy? Just download a copy of the iso and use your valid, legal key that you've already paid for. Why would you need to buy anything further?

      • http://www.apple.com

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by slazzy ( 864185 )
        Probably get some hate on this, but this is why I switched to using a Mac. Sometimes I install Windows if I need to.

        • Same here (I have Windows 7 parked on a small VM for Windows-only stuff that I still find useful, but opening that VM gets rarer and rarer these days...)

    • .

      There should be an option for a "bloat" free computer, with the user paying the full cost for software.

      We could come up with a clever name for a product like that. Maybe something to do with fruit.

      • .

        There should be an option for a "bloat" free computer, with the user paying the full cost for software.

        We could come up with a clever name for a product like that. Maybe something to do with fruit.

        Too bad that fruit company has among its practice of bundling bloatware along its software users want to install.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by OzPeter ( 195038 )

          Too bad that fruit company has among its practice of bundling bloatware along its software users want to install.

          What do you consider is Apple's bloatware? All I see are Apple written, basic applications that are complete in and amongst themselves. No free trials, no upgrades, no advertising.

          • I remember they included Safari by default when you tried to install iTunes on Windows.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by OzPeter ( 195038 )

              I remember they included Safari by default when you tried to install iTunes on Windows.

              Which was when? Your initial statement implied current practices.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by zieroh ( 307208 )

          Too bad that fruit company has among its practice of bundling bloatware along its software users want to install.

          If you could be so kind as to elaborate, I would be extremely grateful.

          (Which is to say that I think you're completely full of shit and would really like you to back up your allegations).

      • The Microsoft Store sells PCs from a variety of manufacturers under the "Signature Edition" label. These computers are bloatware free and not more expensive than getting the same hardware elsewhere.

    • Most of it isn't helpful at all, and some of it is downright diabolical.

    • Re:Bloatware?! (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Eponymous Coward ( 6097 ) on Friday February 27, 2015 @04:42PM (#49149585)

      You are overestimating the "value" of the bloatware by an order of magnitude. That $350 computer will now be $385, not $700.

      • I doubt it's anywhere near $35 per PC. That would require almost every new PC owner to buy the full version of at least 1 bloatware to make it break even. More like $2 - $5 per unit.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by hawguy ( 1600213 )

      I don't understand why people call it "bloatware". This helpful software does many useful things for the user. It essentially subsidizes your $1000 computer into a more affordable $500 or so machine!

      The manufacturer gets money for the installation, and you get helpful software that reduces your costs!

      What would people do without search aggregators, browser toolbars, download accelerators, etc?

      Maybe people should pay the full cost of the software that comes on their machines. Suddenly your "bargain" $350 "bloats" up to a $700. How about paying the full cost for Windows? How about paying the full cost for say hotmail access?

      Software isn't , and shouldn't always be "free".

      There should be an option for a "bloat" free computer, with the user paying the full cost for software.

      Do you have a reference for that? I'd be surprised if all of the bloatware ads up to a $500 payment to Lenovo, I'd be surprised if it was even $50.

      If software makers were willing to pay Lenovo up to $500 to pre-install this software, why aren't they making it available to consumers directly? I'm sure lots of people would be happy to install Superfish-like software if they were paid just $100 for it.

      • Lenovo shipped 16 million PCs last quarter. If it received $500/PC for "boatware" for half of these, the revenue would be 4 billion dollars, which obviously didn't happen. If it reveived a more likely $5/PC, the revenue would be 40 million dollars, which is probably more than enough to support their tech support department.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by cpaglee ( 665238 )

      Absolute nonsense. I used to sell bundled software to hardware manufacturers. Software companies don't pay such high dollars to hardware manufacturers to get software bundled on hardware. Software income is 'extra' and doesn't factor into the final price of a computer. Actually often times it is the sales guy's relationship with the manufacturer that gets the software onto the hard disk. I am sure that is what happened in this case. Lenovo is just finally saying we don't need the hassle. They lost more mone

  • Consumers win (Score:3, Interesting)

    by gurps_npc ( 621217 ) on Friday February 27, 2015 @04:37PM (#49149531) Homepage
    We all win with at least a single computer maker stopping the insane practice of selling their customers instead of selling TO their customers.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AvitarX ( 172628 )

      Back before thinkpads were Lenovo (or at least in the XP era), I could get and then boot into recovery mode to do a fresh install. I had a helpful wizard that allowed me to uncheck all of the bloatware when re installing. I miss that feature.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by OzPeter ( 195038 )

      We all win with at least a single computer maker stopping the insane practice of selling their customers instead of selling TO their customers.

      That's one thing you can already say about Apple's computers - no bloatware.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      We all win with at least a single computer maker stopping the insane practice of selling their customers instead of selling TO their customers.

      Or Lenovo realizes a couple of things.

      1) People who buy Lenovo aren't the price-sensitive type, or
      2) People who buy Lenovo are corporate clients who wipe the PCs anyways.

      Basically, Lenovo's not really catering to the price-sensitive consumer - someone who will spend no more than $500 for a new computer (laptop or desktop). Plenty of companies to fulfill that market s

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Nemyst ( 1383049 )
        Replace Lenovo with IBM and you might have a point, but Lenovo's brand reputation has taken a nosedive. They've introduced a bunch of new lines mostly comprised of cheap, expendable and unreliable laptops. The ThinkPad line is still okay (though warranty coverage isn't what it used to be), but it's not what Lenovo's marketing is even focused on, largely because they think they have their business market captive (which is likely extremely foolish).

    • If you weren't so cheap, you could have been buying computers not covered in crap for years. Apple has never sold computers with crap like that on it.

      The problem is, you want to pay $100 for a $2000 device and ignore the consequences.

      Lenovo hasn't actually done this yet, and when they do, they won't be the first.

  • ...if you read the press release, it's almost like Lenovo is saying that are shocked that Superfish was on their products. This would have been a lot more laudable if they had come to this road to Damascus experience for altruistic reasons rather than as flagrant corporate damage control for getting caught doing something pretty awful to their customers.
  • They need to get rid of all the obvious crap before Western consumers stop buying their laptops altogether and the back doors and data harvesters hidden deep in the hardware by the intel arm of the PLA stop being carried into every Western home and workplace.

    • The only kudos I'll give to Dell is that they still ship a clean Windows install DVD and a driver disk. Pretty much the first thing I do after I've made sure a new computer starts up is to immediately wipe out the partitions and install clean from disk.

      • Apparently they also provide service manuals online for free, and seem generally more repairable than Apple kit according to iFixit. [ifixit.com] So they probably do deserve a bit more kudos than they get.

  • Good, I'm tired of removing the crap. (Score:3)

    by pecosdave ( 536896 ) on Friday February 27, 2015 @04:42PM (#49149581) Homepage Journal

    They make great hardware, but getting rid of Nitro PDF is particularly annoying, it UAC's more than once, plus Sugar Sync, which even having on our systems violates a client agreement. Crapware needs to die, and die now. I do my best to work from a factory image, hardware seems to be so much easier to deal with that way, but Lenovo makes it quite an annoyance.

  • Spock is gone .. Windows is releasing another OS . Lenovo is making thinkpads .. Times have changed .

  • Additionally, we will offer Lenovo PC users affected by this issue a free 6-month subscription to McAfee LiveSafe service

    Sounds like more bloatware to me. Who needs crapware working for only 6 months and then nagging you to purchase the full version or your computer will be at risk?

    • We are starting immediately, and by the time we launch our Windows 10 products, our standard image will only include the operating system and related software, software required to make hardware work well (for example, when we include unique hardware in our devices, like a 3D camera), security software and Lenovo applications

      So they are not removing McAfee's bloatware as well as their own bloatware. Tell me why do I need that "Lenovo Power control" application again? Or that "Lenovo App Shop"?

  • Well...not ALL bloatware. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Scutter ( 18425 ) on Friday February 27, 2015 @04:52PM (#49149663) Journal

    We are starting immediately, and by the time we launch our Windows 10 products, our standard image will only include the operating system and related software, software required to make hardware work well (for example, when we include unique hardware in our devices, like a 3D camera), security software and Lenovo applications.

    So, you're still going to be shipping it with trial versions of bloatware McAfee or bloatware Norton or whatever, plus your Lenovo-branded applications (which are really just re-branded bloatware ad-servers disguised as "handy applications for running your 3D camera!"). In other words, it'll be "bloatware-free" except for all the bloatware you're still going to pre-load onto it. Thanks, Lenovo!

    • So, you're still going to be shipping it with trial versions of bloatware McAfee or bloatware Norton or whatever, plus your Lenovo-branded applications (which are really just re-branded bloatware ad-servers disguised as "handy applications for running your 3D camera!"). In other words, it'll be "bloatware-free" except for all the bloatware you're still going to pre-load onto it. Thanks, Lenovo!

      No, that's not what is being said.

      Yes, security software means a short-term subscription with Norton or similar. But the Lenovo-branded applications... you're just making stuff up. Lenovo has been shipping their machines for a few years now with a fairly reasonable package of management software. It'll do scheduled hardware tests (as best as software can possibly), keep BIOS/driver packages current, keep you informed as to expiring warranty status, and otherwise make it generally easy to find informati

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by J-1000 ( 869558 )
      Exactly. If McAfee isn't bloatware, I don't know what is.

  • I help students with their computers at work, and I'm shocked at the amount of bloatware I see on the Windows laptops they bring me.

    Microsoft needs to crack down on its OEM contracts and help give people an experience closer to what you get with OS X. Every Windows laptop should act the same when you turn it on for the first time.

  • How about Lenovo go one step better? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by mlts ( 1038732 ) on Friday February 27, 2015 @04:54PM (#49149675)

    It would be nice to see Lenovo go a step ahead in the consumer market and not just stop with shovelware, but maybe bundle some security features with their products. This would go a long way to fixing their black eye in the press:

    1: A TPM chip shipped off and disabled (as per the spec) on all machines would be useful. Windows Vista and newer can take advantage of this and offer solid encryption that is highly resistant to brute force attack.

    2: Add clientside encryption to Reachit with a public format, perhaps getting other vendors on board. This way, users have cloud access... but files are transparently encrypted, similar to BoxCryptor.

    3: Have a small SSD read-only volume with a custom WIM present for install media as well as drivers. This way, if a machine needs to be reinstalled from scratch due to a HDD or SSD replacement, this can be done anywhere, and no OS media would be needed. This also is useful for recovery as well, especially if there is a way to get to a PE environment which can be used to save off files, run an offline AV scanner, or fix a haywire application.

    4: Add firewalling onto the NICs themselves. Around 10 years ago, some nVidia motherboard chipsets had this capability where the onboard NICs were intelligent enough to have the ability to have their own rulesets. This was quite useful, both to keep the OS protected with IP blacklists, as well as to limit the damage a compromised OS can do (for example, block all outgoing port 25 traffic.) As an added benefit, if someone is worried about vPro or other "ring -1" management tools, those can easily be blocked at the NIC.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      What a set of terrible and mis-guided ideas

      1. TPM was there for a while, got removed because nobody wanted to use it. Nothing has changed since so nobody will bring it back. Also see point 3.
      2. Whatever, customers don't understand and want encryption. Vendors don't care about that. Vendors don't have skills to do that. Vendors love incompatible differentiation factors.
      3. Extra hardware costs money. What will really happen is that the bios will be hacked to fake two disks making the internal SSD impossible t

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by MobyDisk ( 75490 )

        I have to agree with the AC. Perhaps "One man's feature is another man's bloatware." I don't want any of those 4 items. It seems ironic that, in response to Lenovo saying they will remove bloatware, someone is asking for more bloatware.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Junta ( 36770 )

      1. TPM costs money. Almost no one uses it. Therefore, it adds cost and almost no one realizes value.
      2. Never used reachit, no idea.
      3. A significant cost adder without much value. An eMMC might not be *too* much, but it's still significant. It'd probably be cheaper to ship with a distinct USB key, but really having the ability to put a recovery image to arbitrary USB key is more useful and less likely to become a source of servicing headache in and of itself.
      4. Another cost adder that's likely to either

  • Seems to me that "outing users", in the form of leaking their personal info without consent, is what got Lenovo in trouble in the first place.

  • Utilities (Score:5, Interesting)

    by flanders123 ( 871781 ) on Friday February 27, 2015 @05:14PM (#49149835)
    I've always wondered why manufacturers reinvent the wheel when it comes to bundled utilities. Why does Lenovo develop its own power controls, wireless manager, driver updater, display management, etc when there are standard OS utilities to handle these things? Isn't it sort of a waste of their time? It's always fun when the 3rd party utils start fighting with the native OS tools for control.
    • The wheel is one of the most patented devices ever. People reinvent the wheel every day, from new reinforcement designs, to air pressure sensor systems, to folding systems for robots, to electric powered rims for ebikes. As a patent holder for two different wheel based inventions your careless use of a metaphor deeply offends me. Please think of all the hard won innovation and freedom the wheel has given you before you disrespect it so much. Brought to you by the let's roll with a better metaphor dep
      • I've always wondered why manufacturers floviate the shlondpuffa when it comes to bundled utilities, know what I'm sayin? ....How's that?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by paziek ( 1329929 )
        No, they don't. They are just using wheel in other inventions. Just like when someone writes application, poem, designs font - they aren't reinventing alphabet.
        • Yes, they do. An OEM wireless manager is mostly the same thing that ships with the OS. It is reinventing the wheel. However, applications, poems and fonts all serve different needs.

    • I've always wondered why manufacturers reinvent the wheel when it comes to bundled utilities. Why does Lenovo develop its own power controls, wireless manager, driver updater, display management, etc when there are standard OS utilities to handle these things? Isn't it sort of a waste of their time? It's always fun when the 3rd party utils start fighting with the native OS tools for control.

      Because the OS provides only a very limited subset of functionality which most vendors include in their equipment.

      Driver updates would require working with the OS vendor and Windows Update (actually this is one part I wish would happen).
      Display management is frankly poor on the OS. Windows does not provide for strange resolutions, forced outputs, separate colour controls for hardware overlays, or any 3D settings at all.
      Power Controls is another thing where every vendor has their own idea of how to improve p

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by J-1000 ( 869558 )
      They live in a fantasy land where those tools are a key differentiator for their product. As if Granny is impressed by all this when making her purchase. What other explanation can there be? They really think their stuff raises eyebrows.

  • Genius. (Score:4, Funny)

    by hey! ( 33014 ) on Friday February 27, 2015 @05:19PM (#49149869) Homepage Journal

    CEO: This Superfish incident has put our credibility in the toilet. Even corporate customers are looking askance at us now, and we didn't put it on their computers. Suggestions?

    Executive 1: Lay low until it blows over.

    Executive 2: Hire a new PR firm.

    Executive 3: Start a social media campaign.

    Genius executive: Maybe we should promise not to do stuff like that anymore.

    • Re:Genius. (Score:5, Informative)

      by swillden ( 191260 ) <shawn-ds@willden.org> on Friday February 27, 2015 @05:39PM (#49150045) Journal

      Genius executive: Maybe we should promise not to do stuff like that anymore.

      Super-genius executive: Maybe we should promise not to do stuff like that any more, but exempt "security software and Lenovo applications". That way we can continue getting paid by McAfee and others to continue loading their stuff, as long as they don't mind us slapping our logo on it.

  • The *first* thing I uninstall is McAfee (Score:3)

    by msobkow ( 48369 ) on Friday February 27, 2015 @06:03PM (#49150231) Homepage Journal

    The first thing I uninstall is McAfee. That piece of crap wedges in a VB script interpreter that breaks many of the software installers I have to put on my machines to make them useful. THE worst anti-virus product ever.

    It also claims that SAP/Sybase ASE is infected, and deletes critical files from the install.

  • >> the company also announced that it is giving away 6-month free subscription to all Superfish-affected users

    A 6 month free subscription to what? If there is anything on the PC they ship that needs a subscription then it seems clear they havent in fact gotten rid of all the bloatware.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Whats the bet that the "Security Software" they refer to includes those crappy limited trial versions of software from McAfee and Norton, the stuff that is impossible to uninstall and gives you endless nag screens pushing you to give them money? (nag screens that used to be good at getting idiots to part with their money but now thanks to scams and fake anti-virus products and stuff that all their geek friends keep telling them about are more likely to get those same idiots to assume they are bogus and igno

  • Dare I hope this will come true? I remember Sony laptops used to offer a "wiped" install on some laptops, with a clean win7 install, no Sony or bloatware software (cue windows is bloatware jokes... you're not funny). I was going to get a Sony, mostly for that reason (they were comparable to other laptops in every other respect).
    • Wasn't the Sony "wiped" version the one with the root kit? That decision, along with their practice of deliberately non-standardising on standard components in order to shaft their customers cost them my business for the rest of my life. No Sony products of any kind ever again, which includes my place of work where I have a budget of 7 figures.
      This is the only way these companies will learn not to be dicks.

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