Samsung Set To Launch Mobile Payment System With Galaxy S6 At MWC 82
dkatana writes: Samsung will introduce the Galaxy S6 on Sunday, March 1st, at the Barcelona Forum, one day before the Mobile World Congress officially starts. Serious rumors from different sources indicate that the Korean giant will also introduce its version of a global mobile payment system, which will likely have the moniker "Samsung Pay." Samsung can't afford to give away its position in the smartphone market, and a payments system tailored to customers is a key factor.
What a great idea (Score:4, Funny)
I wonder how they came up with it...
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Re:What a great idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Because they want a cut. Because they want the analytics. Because they want the market share. Because they want to tie you to their platform.
They don't give a crap if someone else's app runs on their phone .... they want the money, and the data, and customer lock-in if possible.
Do you seriously need to ask? Why does a corporation do anything besides "branding" and "money"?
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Branding ... you'll have a Samsung phone, and probably opt to go with a Samsung wallet because it's probably pushed in your face and easy to use, and you don't have to go looking for it.
Hell, they'll probably have a wizard to sign you up quick like. Everything the handset makers do is more or less designed to drive you towards using their stuff.
Why let Google get that business, and all that tasty analytics data, when you can get it yourself?
Whether or not it has any decentsecurity will be seen -- me, I pre
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ive been holding out on a new phone waiting on the new note/ Galaxy line, as ive been happy with them since i gave up my droid line, but i think im gonna look around a little harder this
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I kept with all the bloated Samsung crap on my S4 before I switched to a Google Edition-based rom and haven't looked back. I don't think there's a single feature that the Samsung software gave me that the Google Edition software doesn't do better, or that I just didn't care about the gimmicks of TouchWiz.
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Sorry. I was really wondering why they think that I would choose their app over Google's?
I don't "like" google. I certainly don't trust google. Google already has a huge amount of data on me.
So why would I choose Google over Samsung?
"Not being google" alone is a compelling reason for me to look at samsung and other viable alternatives.
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Google already has my credit card information (Play Store, AdWords, et al).
Why would I want give it to yet another party like Samsung?
And indeed, why would I want my in-person payment method to be tied to a specific manufacturer? Google Wallet works with anything that can speak NFC, as far as I can tell, while a Samsung solution will certainly only operate on Samsung devices.
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Google already has my credit card information (Play Store, AdWords, et al).
This isn't about your card information. This is your transaction information.
Why would I want give it to yet another party like Samsung?
As I said, this is about spreading my profile data around. The more entitites that have a piece of it, the better. No one entity has a complete picture.
Company A knows: I spend X here, Y there, Z there.
Company B knows: I travelled here, there, and the next place.
Company C knows: my heart rate was al
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Because it came with the phone.
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Does their app work outside of the US? Then yes, they'll kick Google Wallet's ass.
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I doubt it'll fly in Canada. For that matter, I wonder if they'll even try.
Interac has almost universal availability and their NFC version ("Interac Flash") is already available to certain Android smartphone users.
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I wonder how they came up with it...
I suppose they saw what Google was doing with Google Wallet in the US and wanted a global solution.
Don't trust any of them ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Sorry, but there isn't a single player in the "pay with your phone" market I trust. Nor will there ever be
Neither to safeguard my financial data, nor to not be complete douchebags with the information they'd get from it.
Sorry Samsung, and Apple, and Google, and Microsoft ... and the whole lot of you ... giving you access to my credit cards sounds like a Dumb Fucking Idea(tm).
And the carriers who muck about with the phone to lock it to them and inject their own crap? I trust them even less.
Re:Don't trust any of them ... (Score:5, Informative)
I don't know how the others work - but Apple doesn't get your card number. They get a device id which is used to seed and generate one-time use tokens in conjunction with the card issuing networks.
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Even if Apple has the card number - credit cards have built-in fraud protection.
I trust Google with my credit card info, and in the event that they screw up (as of yet, they're one of the few people who HASN'T screwed up at this point with a major breach a la Target and TJ Maxx), the card still has fraud protection.
Wanna bet Samsung's crap is ACH-backed like CurrentC? If it is - STAY THE HELL AWAY.
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What kind of crappy card company removes a fraudulent charge without issuing a new card with a new number?
This is one nice side effect of the digital wallets. Your actual card number is not used in the transaction*. So, if there's a fraudulent charge via the wallet, it can be contested/removed/etc without any need to re-issue the underlying card number.
* Google uses a temporary mastercard number for each transaction
* Apple uses a DAN (device account number) and dynamic security codes
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So how do automated recurring payments work? How do you get your money back for fraud and prevent the vendor(s) from further charging your compromised card?
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So how do automated recurring payments work?
I honestly haven't looked that up. That said, I'm not sure if Google Wallet or Apple Pay have ever said they support such a use case. They both still use normal cards under the hood, so I suspect you'd still use those for your automated payments.
How do you get your money back for fraud and prevent the vendor(s) from further charging your compromised card?
Money back from fraud? You claim it was fraud; chargeback is issued; merchant must prove what happened to get their money; this continue past that, just like with a normal card. No difference.
Prevent vendors from further charging your compromised card? I guess you d
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Wait, what?
How on Earth can Apple tie your account activity to a credit card without ever having that credit card number to generate that token?
And, if at ANY point in this chain Apple has your credit card number ... why would I trust they (or any other corporation) aren't retaining that.
I don't see how any of this one-time token stuff can be generated without first having your credit card information.
There's either a missing step there in which they certainly do have it ... or there is voodoo magic by whic
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Wait, what?
How on Earth can Apple tie your account activity to a credit card without ever having that credit card number to generate that token?
And, if at ANY point in this chain Apple has your credit card number ... why would I trust they (or any other corporation) aren't retaining that.
I don't see how any of this one-time token stuff can be generated without first having your credit card information.
There's either a missing step there in which they certainly do have it ... or there is voodoo magic by which they can attach your account information to you without knowing anything.
Apple gets your CC info during the SIGNUP process, which they then use to initiate a contract between you and your bank; then the ENTIRE transaction process on an ongoing basis is SOLELY between YOU and YOUR BANK. Apple gets ZERO "analytics" info that is tied to your identity.
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No, the phone doesn't store the card info either.
Re:Don't trust any of them ... (Score:5, Informative)
Well, they have your credit card number, for a few seconds during setup.
Here's what happens:
You get your phone, and you snap a photo of your credit card. Your phone recognizes the card and number, and forwards that information to Apple Corporate HQ. Apple then uses that information to determine which bank to talk to (because all banks have different ways to implement this step, and why Apple Pay only works with certain banks). Apple forwards that information to the bank. Apple also forwards some hardware information hash to the bank.
Your bank then calls you (or verifies you in some way) to ensure that you're actually registering your card (the bank looks up the information - Apple doesn't have that information after all). If it's approved, the bank sends Apple a token. The token is a virtual credit card where the last 4 digits are identical to the real credit card. That token is what is stored on your device, and the credit card information promptly forgotten as it's no longer necessary.
When you use Apple Pay, you select the card, and then use the fingerprint reader. When the iPhone talks to the payment system, it passes on the token and a hash representing your hardware ID. The payment system sees the token, and passes it onto the bank who verifies the hardware ID against their own database. If it matches, then they lookup the token against their database to find which account to charge.
The credit card is used during initial setup only - after that you're passing around tokens which are unique identifiers for your card, phone, account by the bank. The bank issues the token and generates the mapping of tokens to cardholder accounts.
If your number is stolen, then attempts to use it will fail because the hardware ID is invalid, and the bank sends you a NEW token to replace your old one.
If you lose your phone, you can wipe your phone's secure element which erases keys to access your card information.
Apple Pay is a fancy term for the EMV payment standard - there's no magic in it, and it's just implementing what the payment industry says is how they want to do it. It's why it "just works" in a lot of stores because the standard was done a while ago and implemented.
http://www.macrumors.com/round... [macrumors.com]
A more detailed analysis is
http://www.tuaw.com/2014/10/02... [tuaw.com]
(Read it quick because AOL is killing TUAW)
The only difference with Apple (Score:2)
Apple Pay is a fancy term for the EMV payment standard - there's no magic in it, and it's just implementing what the payment industry says is how they want to do it. It's why it "just works" in a lot of stores because the standard was done a while ago and implemented.
The only difference is that with Apple, it is simple and it works. If you doubt that, then look at how long a lead Google had with Wallet and how as soon as Apple Pay appeared, it's dominated the usage of contactless terminals.
Sure, Apple pushed it - but if it was a total pain, people wouldn't do it. There's always the fallback of actually using your card.
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Google Wallet is simple from my end-user perspective, and just works with a myriad of different manufacturer's devices, unlike Apple Pay or (presumably) Samsung Pay.
I've been using it quite a lot lately (perhaps ironically, given TFS) on my Samsung S5. I've had zero issues, except for political clusterfucks like CVS dropping support for Google Wallet soon after Apple Pay was released, and badly-trained Subway clerks who insist on pushing exactly the wrong button on the register when they see me reach for m
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How on Earth can Apple tie your account activity to a credit card without ever having that credit card number to generate that token?
They get it just long enough to transmit it to your bank which verifies the info.
And, if at ANY point in this chain Apple has your credit card number ... why would I trust they (or any other corporation) aren't retaining that.
Because they'd have no reason to lie about it. Also, if you have an iPhone and an Apple ID and you've used either iTunes or the App store to make any purchases they already have your credit card. There's no reason they'd need to build some secret DB of credit card info.
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the retailer doesn't have my CC number with pay by phone for hackers to grab off their servers
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That is why my point was regarding ease of use and not security. Smart cards are more secure than the
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The appeal is much greater prevention (Score:2)
As the other responder noted, using my phone to pay means the store does not get my CC number, thus a hacker cannot ever get it...
But even better, unlike a card in my wallet, if I lose my phone someone cannot use the phone to pay for anything, because it's based around the fingerprint reader.
There's also the aspect that using the phone is more anonymous for simple store payments (a teller never gets my full name unlike with a card), though frankly I doubt that matters to almost anyone.
Physically it's no LES
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My version of your post would go:
using my cash to pay means the store does not get my CC number, thus a hacker cannot ever get it...
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using my cash to pay means the store does not get my CC number, thus a hacker cannot ever get it...
You missed the part where someone stealing my phone can't use my money. Hackers are just one kind of thief. It's not like pick-pockets have vanished; far from it they have become more prevalent these days.
If someone physically gets my wallet, whatever cash I had is simply gone. Sure a CC will not make me pay for false charges either, but why should a thief gain the reward of a whole side of beef or brand ne
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Physically it's no LESS convenient to pay by phone than it is with a card, which is the most important aspect (people would not use it if less convenient).
You state it is no less convenient, but fail to provide a good basis. But regardless, people don't feel compelled to make a big switch in their habits unless they see a benefit. The convenience of credit cards over cash is indisputable, and it took a long time for may just to make that move. I contend the road to phone payments, particularly in the US, will be a longer and rockier one than the hype indicates.
OK, Phone payment actually easier. (Score:2)
You state it is no less convenient, but fail to provide a good basis.
Pretty confused here, it's obviously just as easy to pull out a phone than a credit card.
Indeed it's slightly easier to pull out a phone since usually a card means pulling out a wallet from which you have to pull a card from a slot.
The actual physical act of pressing the fingerprint reader is about equal with running a card through a slot, and frankly a little more sure since mag stripe readers are often in a state of failing.
It's definite
Nice try, but the 6 plus still fits in a pocket (Score:1)
Unless that phone is the behemoth iphone 6 plus.
The 6 plus fits in my jeans pocket just like every other cell phone I've ever had.
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Pay by phone is not really any more convenient than pay by card. In fact, it may be less convenient. I've never understood the appeal from a consumer point of view. I do understand why many companies want it to take hold, its another place to insert yourself in the money stream.
I agree that pay by phone is LESS convenient than pay by card. IMO, the industry is doing a disservice to its users by attempting to push that agenda.
However, pay by phone *should* be MUCH MUCH more secure than the typical (US) pay by card (mag stripe).
All you need to make transactions online or by phone as someone else is an impression of their card. Some businesses require the security code from the back of the card. Some require your home zip code. But not everyone does, so you can still make huge purcha
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IMO, the only real concern from the user end is that Google and Apple are essentially MITM to at least some parts of the transaction.
For Apple Pay, Apple is not a "man in the middle". They are not in a position to get any information about what is actually happening. Any data processing is done in a chip inside the phone that the iPhone itself and Apple have no access to. And that's necessary to make sure that malware on a jailbroken iPhone cannot access your credit card information.
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Oh, with their Knox stuff and the permanent eFuse blowing, their stuff will be "secure".
(/sarcasm)
If Samsung offered a way to unlock bootloaders similar to what Sony and HTC do, I'd might consider them, but with having to put a bounty just for root access... I'll find a vendor that will allow me full access to my device first.
Of course, there is the payment mechanism. Is it like CurrentC where there is zero protection as it directly grabs money from your account? If the payment mechanism isn't credit card
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Not if you bought your Play credits in the form of a gift card at a physical store. They have them even at grocery stores where I live.
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if there is a 10+ track record of this working and NOT being a walking privacy violation, maybe I'll consider it then.
right now, network and system security is quite bad, across the board on ALL computer platforms. mobile is a 'sell the users' info' clusterfuck and so no players are to be trusted. its too sleazy of a market and all the bad players were attracted to it.
are informed people (yeah, there are so few of those around) really willing to give this a try? boggle!
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Goodbye Samsung (Score:5, Insightful)
"Samsung can't afford to give away its position in the smartphone market, and a payments system tailored to customers is a key factor."
Samsung has been losing marketshare because customers HATE being assaulted with Samsung's crappy substandard "me-too" crapware.
This is just more of the same. They just don't get it.
Re:Goodbye Samsung (Score:4, Insightful)
This me-too crapware is here for a reason : Samsung doesn't want to be the slave of Google.
Why do you think Samsung has an OS that no one uses (Tizen) ? Simply so that if for some reason, Google decides to stop playing nice, Samsung can make the switch relatively quickly.
And Samsung software is not all bad. It often has a few nice features, some may even end up being copied by Google.
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yeah, that's not why they have Tizen
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Every smartphone I've ever had (except, perhaps, the OG Droid) has been full of crapware, irrespective of who manufactured it...at least initially.
The process of deshitification goes something like this:
1. Only buy phones that are rootable (which can vary by carrier).
2. Order pizza.
3. Root the phone.
4. Install (and pay for) Titanium Backup.
5. Use Ti Backup to freeze the apps you don't like.
6. Open a beer.
7. Pay delivery driver.
8. Eat pizza.
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Drinking beer is implicit.
The question is not when to drink the beer, but when/if to stop drinking beer.
Perhaps I should have been clear, and wrote "Open another beer."
Samsung camera division (Score:2)
Going by how they turned the NX1 into an almost brand new camera with their latest firmware I'd say it'll be a long time before Samsung is out off the phone market.
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Samsung has been losing marketshare because customers HATE being assaulted with Samsung's crappy substandard "me-too" crapware.
Which is why their Galaxy Google Play editions sold so well right? I mean all the awesome parts of the Samsung phone with zero crapware and a true vanilla Android experience would be perfect then right?
No. They offer devices free of "crapware" and then people choose not to buy those devices.
If you actually look at the trends then Samsung's market share dropped by less than 10% over the past 2 years and the only people who gained market share are "other". None of the majors gained market share. This is large
Will the Note 3 support it? (Score:2)
or is it an old and obsolete phone and i have to be a good consumer and buy a new phone with the newer NFC
Not just NFC (Score:2)
NFC is just a mechanism to conduct a payment by, it's not worth much unless you have the other security aspects in place to make sure people can't easily clone your phone payments or use a stolen phone to pay for things.
Please remember... (Score:4, Funny)
Please remember to SPay your retailers...
The first payment request... (Score:1)
Monkey see, monkey do (Score:1)
Typical samsung! They should just close their devices division and focus on semiconductors, which they actually do well.
Contactless may be the future, unfortunately (Score:5, Insightful)
The biggest problem with these contactless payments, bigger even than trust, is that it separates you mentally from your money. It makes it easy for people to fail to develop and maintain responsible financial habits. It softens the blow of spending money. If that blow doesn't hurt, then you can imagine what happens to the thought of security. The closer you are to the cash, the more you pay attention to its security! Someone takes $20 out of your wallet, you get upset. Someone skims your card, you don't even notice, and if you ever find out, you hope the card company will just reverse the charge. What incentive do you have to care anymore?
When you pay cash, you see the actual money leave your hands. A check is still symbolic in that you're giving them something permanently. When you pay with a debit card, you start to really lose the connection to your money. You put it back in your wallet when you're done. We have had contactless payments for a while and when you use it, you don't think, just buy. I used to have a Paypass enabled debit card and all I had to do was wave my wallet towards the payment terminal to pay. Or if it was in my coat pocket, just wave my coat at the terminal.
The overwhelming message from retailers is: Don't think about your money, just spend it! We'll make it easy! Consumers like easy.
Of course any mobile device manufacturer is all too happy to get involved with that. If banks made cell phones, they would be playing in this space too.
Your rant is 30 years late (Score:4, Informative)
The biggest problem with these contactless payments, bigger even than trust, is that it separates you mentally from your money. It makes it easy for people to fail to develop and maintain responsible financial habits. It softens the blow of spending money. If that blow doesn't hurt, then you can imagine what happens to the thought of security. The closer you are to the cash, the more you pay attention to its security! Someone takes $20 out of your wallet, you get upset. Someone skims your card, you don't even notice, and if you ever find out, you hope the card company will just reverse the charge. What incentive do you have to care anymore?
You don't think the same issues happen with cards vs. cash? Yeah, I go through stores already today just putting stuff in the cart, swiping at the checkout, collecting the receipt and never even looking at the bill until well after the fact (and sometimes never even then).
I manage my budget after the fact - hey that spongecake we bought was completely uneaten - never buy again. That TJs cold-brewed coffee habit is expensive but more cost-effective than buying beans and cleaning out the coffee machine... etc, etc.
Fact is, cards have already altered our spending habits and contactless does very little to modify that - it's just a nice shinier petina over the same rubric.